Special Election megathread (6/11: OH-6, 6/25: CO-4)

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

We're all for second chances. We just don't think people who are attracted to first graders deserve one.

You know, like normal people.

It's funny that we finally find a position where I'm more left than you.  I've always felt that the sex offender registry should be eliminated.

Um, what the f#ck?

The sex offender registry isn't about vengeance or second chances, it's about informing the public who in their neighborhood (or on certain forums...) have a sexual inclination towards children and shouldn't be associating with them. I think the system misjudges now and then with regard to age discrepancies (particularly for relationships that are long-term but "become" technically illegal) but there's an extremely valid reason it exists.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

As to Scholl's "abolish prisons" thing, no one except the extremely fringe left seriously believes that's a good idea. Even "Defund the Police" is more nuanced when you put that in context, although it is stupid political branding.

[GeneralMacArthur]

We're all for second chances. We just don't think people who are attracted to first graders deserve one.

You know, like normal people.

It's funny that we finally find a position where I'm more left than you.  I've always felt that the sex offender registry should be eliminated.

Um, what the f#ck?

The sex offender registry isn't about vengeance or second chances, it's about informing the public who in their neighborhood (or on certain forums...) who have a sexual inclination towards children and shouldn't be associating with them. I think the system misjudges now and then with regard to age discrepancies (particularly for relationships that are long-term but "become" technically illegal) but there's an extremely valid reason it exists.

If there's a serious risk that someone's going to molest a child, they should be in prison.

If you don't think they're ready to re-enter society, don't let them out of prison.

The sex offender registry is this bizarre grey zone where the criminal justice system is finished dealing with you, but your neighbors and employers are still expected to deal with you somehow.  It makes re-entering society impossible because it forces everyone to treat you as a potential, even likely, criminal.  And for the rehabilitated, it's a permanent punishment they can never work their way out of.  And it's extra-bizarre because we only do it for this one particular subset of crimes.  Why is there no murderers registry, if forcing the community to do the criminal justice system's job is such a great idea?

Anyway I don't want to turn this into an individual politics thread so I'll stop.  I just think it's really wrong to attack someone for employing a former criminal, regardless of the crime, but especially when it's totally unrelated to the work they're doing.  And I would say that whether it was Nina or Shontel (in this case, it's both).

[Donerail]

Someone better do some investigative reporting. I have trouble believing such a servere crime wouldn’t be noticed by either of them.

It seems like his actual job is a security guard. A "lead volunteer" is just the volunteer you task with handing out clipboards to the other vols; you accept pretty much anyone who's willing to knock doors for you. Not quite sure what his party role is but it doesn't seem that sophisticated either. I don't think either would've involved a formal background check like you'd get in a paid position.

[DaleCooper]

We're all for second chances. We just don't think people who are attracted to first graders deserve one.

You know, like normal people.

It's funny that we finally find a position where I'm more left than you.  I've always felt that the sex offender registry should be eliminated.

Um, what the f#ck?

The sex offender registry isn't about vengeance or second chances, it's about informing the public who in their neighborhood (or on certain forums...) have a sexual inclination towards children and shouldn't be associating with them. I think the system misjudges now and then with regard to age discrepancies (particularly for relationships that are long-term but "become" technically illegal) but there's an extremely valid reason it exists.

Everyone goes on what is more or less the same registry, don't they? Unless I'm mistaken, a person convicted of indecent exposure for streaking in college goes on the same list as the child molesters. As for why it exists, I don't think it's about warning the community. Like MacArthur said, there are no registries for worse crimes like murder or torture, etc. I'm pretty tough on violent crime, though, so I'm not losing any sleep over it, though I do think it should be restricted to only sexually violent offenders so that no ordinary criminals get lumped in with the worst of the worst.

Ultimately, I just think it's hilarious that both candidates worked with the same child molester so they can't criticize each other over it. We should all set aside our differences and appreciate the humor in that.

[darklordoftech]

Someone better do some investigative reporting. I have trouble believing such a servere crime wouldn’t be noticed by either of them.

Here's your investigative reporting: he committed a crime, earned his punishment, served his sentence, got released back into society, and tried to start over and build a new, better life for himself.  Apparently he was successful, and became involved in trying to do good things for his local community, working as a minister and volunteering to put together events for local Democrats.  These are all good things and exactly how our criminal justice system works on its best days.

However, I would expect politicians to be too worried about optics and attack ads that will be all too eager to take things out of context to employ someone based on your logic.

We're all for second chances. We just don't think people who are attracted to first graders deserve one.

You know, like normal people.

It's funny that we finally find a position where I'm more left than you.  I've always felt that the sex offender registry should be eliminated.

Um, what the f#ck?

The sex offender registry isn't about vengeance or second chances, it's about informing the public who in their neighborhood (or on certain forums...) who have a sexual inclination towards children and shouldn't be associating with them. I think the system misjudges now and then with regard to age discrepancies (particularly for relationships that are long-term but "become" technically illegal) but there's an extremely valid reason it exists.

If there's a serious risk that someone's going to molest a child, they should be in prison.

If you don't think they're ready to re-enter society, don't let them out of prison.

The sex offender registry is this bizarre grey zone where the criminal justice system is finished dealing with you, but your neighbors and employers are still expected to deal with you somehow.  It makes re-entering society impossible because it forces everyone to treat you as a potential, even likely, criminal.  And for the rehabilitated, it's a permanent punishment they can never work their way out of.  And it's extra-bizarre because we only do it for this one particular subset of crimes.  Why is there no murderers registry, if forcing the community to do the criminal justice system's job is such a great idea?

Anyway I don't want to turn this into an individual politics thread so I'll stop.  I just think it's really wrong to attack someone for employing a former criminal, regardless of the crime, but especially when it's totally unrelated to the work they're doing.  And I would say that whether it was Nina or Shontel (in this case, it's both).

I think the real reasons the registry was created are that it’s expensive to build prisons and house prisoners (so the states didn’t want to put sex offenders in prison for life) and the federal government doesn’t have jurisdiction over crimes that don’t cross state lines (so they couldn’t pass a federal law putting sex offenders in prison for life).

Someone better do some investigative reporting. I have trouble believing such a servere crime wouldn’t be noticed by either of them.

It seems like his actual job is a security guard. A "lead volunteer" is just the volunteer you task with handing out clipboards to the other vols; you accept pretty much anyone who's willing to knock doors for you. Not quite sure what his party role is but it doesn't seem that sophisticated either. I don't think either would've involved a formal background check like you'd get in a paid position.

That’s probably the explanation.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

I don't want to derail the thread any further, I'll just say that the reason we have a sex offender registry and not a murder registry is that the former have much higher recidivism rates. And murders are more often personal; most murderers do not get a thrill from killing people. A person who is attracted to children cannot be cured of that. It is on them to do what ever necessary to not give in to those temptations, and that way they won't end up on the list.

I do agree the sex offender registry should be restructured and reserved for the "obvious" offenders, because it is a permanent mark and due process matters especially in cases like this. But for the same reason I don't want violent criminals having access to guns, I don't want pedophiles having access to children.

[DaleCooper]

I don't want to derail the thread any further, I'll just say that the reason we have a sex offender registry and not a murder registry is that the former have much higher recidivism rates. And murders are more personal; most murderers do not get a thrill from killing people. A person who is attracted to children cannot be cured of that. It is on them to do what ever necessary to not give in to those temptations, and that way they won't end up on the list.

I do agree the sex offender registry should be restructured and reserved for the "obvious" offenders, because it is a permanent mark and due process matters especially in cases like this. But for the same reason I don't want violent criminals having access to guns, I don't want pedophiles having access to children.

Oh, let me rephrase my earlier criticism. I completely agree that there should be a registry to make sure that pedophiles or sexually violent offenders don't get hired by or move in next to schools or whatever. The only thing I'm a bit uncomfortable with is it being a public registry. I'm also opposed to perp walks and any other law enforcement activity that seems to be centered more around public humiliation than justice. But then again, making it so that only sexually violent or contact offenses (or whatever the legal term is) are on the registry would get rid of a lot of my concerns about non-dangerous or lesser criminals getting disproportionate punishment.

[Xing]

This race sure is bringing out the best in us, isn’t it? August can’t come soon enough.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

There’s a difference between giving people a second chance - which I do believe everyone is entitled to to some extent, even this man - and giving them a position in the local party.

[Lief 🗽]

They raised tens of millions of dollars from out of state left-wing elites and this is the best they can afford? Yikes!

https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/1416443187636342784

[GeneralMacArthur]

They raised tens of millions of dollars from out of state left-wing elites and this is the best they can afford? Yikes!

Hey I recognize that thing, it's an old piece of Bernie campaign equipment.  They didn't even bother to paint over the wave on the side.

[Jeppe]

There’s a difference between giving people a second chance - which I do believe everyone is entitled to to some extent, even this man - and giving them a position in the local party.

He volunteered for the Cuyahoga Democratic Party, just like how he volunteered for Nina Turner’s 2014 campaign. Neither organization hired him.

If Turner had done her due diligence and found out that one of her senior volunteers were a registered sex offender, he could’ve been iced out much sooner. But instead, he used his experience on Turner’s campaign to land more volunteer positions on Democratic campaigns in the area.

[Morning in Atlas]

There’s a difference between giving people a second chance - which I do believe everyone is entitled to to some extent, even this man - and giving them a position in the local party.

He volunteered for the Cuyahoga Democratic Party, just like how he volunteered for Nina Turner’s 2014 campaign. Neither organization hired him.

If Turner had done her due diligence and found out that one of her senior volunteers were a registered sex offender, he could’ve been iced out much sooner. But instead, he used his experience on Turner’s campaign to land more volunteer positions on Democratic campaigns in the area.

Per the CCDP's by-laws, the Executive Committee consists partially of appointed members and of elected members. If you look at the CCDP Executive Commitee roster itself, you'll see that the pedophile was an appointed nominee.... by Brown herself!

[bagelman]

Someone better do some investigative reporting. I have trouble believing such a severe crime wouldn’t be noticed by either of them.

Here's your investigative reporting: he committed a crime, earned his punishment, served his sentence, got released back into society, and tried to start over and build a new, better life for himself.  Apparently he was successful, and became involved in trying to do good things for his local community, working as a minister and volunteering to put together events for local Democrats.  These are all good things and exactly how our criminal justice system works on its best days.

This feels like another one of those moments where I thought everyone was in agreement on something but actually there's a significant bloc of folks who disagree.  I thought liberals were in unanimous agreement on the value of rehabilitative justice and providing a fresh start after prison.  I guess that works better when you can construct a fantasy where the crime was justified and the criminal is Jean ValJean, which is pretty hard to do with pedophilia.

If this man was a supporter and/or was friendly with Nina Turner, then you would not be making this argument.

[VBM]

https://twitter.com/NickTagliaferro/status/1416104160202743814

Glad to see the DNC has their answer to Jim Jordan.

Oh wow this is a really gross post.

I've never heard of this guy, but his conviction was in 2003 and he appears to have completely turned his life around since then.  Got out of prison, went to college and then grad school, studied hard, became a minister, got involved in his community, and then tried to help direct events for the Dems.

You know, in OH-11 there's a place called EDWINS.  It's a French restaurant and training institute, and hires exclusively criminals recently released from prison.  The idea is to train them in the restaurant industry and give them the skills needed to start a new life and find gainful employment.  It's pretty much universally regarded as a really good idea and a really good thing.  Their website features the quote "Every human being regardless of their past has the right to a fair and equal future."

God forbid any of those folks try to find work in their local political organization, though.  Even 18 years after their crime, they'll still be used as a weapon by self-proclaimed "progressives."

You should go direct your anger at EDWINS!  You can probably find plenty of former kidnappers and rapists among their staff, now being offered gainful employment and the chance to build a new life.  Go leave them a one-star review on Yelp if you really want to express your outrage at this "rehabilitation" concept.

Hiring a guy who literally kidnapped and raped a six year old girl 20 years ago = acceptable
Hiring people who said mean things on Twitter about establishment Dems = not acceptable

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Someone better do some investigative reporting. I have trouble believing such a severe crime wouldn’t be noticed by either of them.

Here's your investigative reporting: he committed a crime, earned his punishment, served his sentence, got released back into society, and tried to start over and build a new, better life for himself.  Apparently he was successful, and became involved in trying to do good things for his local community, working as a minister and volunteering to put together events for local Democrats.  These are all good things and exactly how our criminal justice system works on its best days.

This feels like another one of those moments where I thought everyone was in agreement on something but actually there's a significant bloc of folks who disagree.  I thought liberals were in unanimous agreement on the value of rehabilitative justice and providing a fresh start after prison.  I guess that works better when you can construct a fantasy where the crime was justified and the criminal is Jean ValJean, which is pretty hard to do with pedophilia.

If this man was a supporter and/or was friendly with Nina Turner, then you would not be making this argument.

Err…he was a lead volunteer for Nina Turner’s Secretary of State campaign.

[Morning in Atlas]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from my understanding of the term "lead volunteer" is probably on the level of a local office or operation. I doubt Nina Turner would have personally vetted him for such a small position, especially in a statewide campaign in a state as large as Ohio.

It's not something that the general public will distinguish and is ineffective, but it's a clear false equivalency. There is hard proof that Shontel Brown elevated him to the Executive Committee. If proof comes out implicating Nina or exonerating Shontel, I'll be glad to admit I'm wrong. If we want to have a debate on whether or not pedophiles should have a second chance in society that's fine too. But coming from my experience working on a campaign, it doesn't seem comparable.

[DaleCooper]

She probably just didn't know. It's not healthy to do extensive background checks on every person you associate with to make sure they aren't a criminal.

I don't want to start an irrelevant debate, but for the record I would like to know if progressives are starting to change their opinions on reintegrating violent criminals into society. I've been lectured so many times by left-wingers for not being forgiving enough to ruthless criminals so I'm curious if the prominent progressive opinion on this is changing.

[wbrocks67]

At this rate, I don't expect any public polls before election day, unfortunately

[GeneralMacArthur]

NYTimes tried to write an article about the race and it's exactly what we've come to expect from the times.  Nationalizing the race, saying it's Bernie vs. Biden part II, and the coverage is extremely biased towards Nina (Shontel Brown only gets one quote in the entire article!).  The Times is obviously rooting for Nina so they can write more frenzied thinkpieces about "the insurgence within the Democratic Party" when she wins.

Fortunately nobody in OH-11 cares what the failing New York Times thinks.  PredictIt at 60-40 now.

The one good thing that could come from nationalizing this race is that we might get a few more polls.  That would also be good for Shontel, since her main problem right now seems to be lack of name recognition.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Also:

For Ms. Turner to win, she needs people like Dewayne Williams, 31 and formerly incarcerated, who came out in the rain on Saturday to the Gas on God Community Giveaway, for $10 worth of free gas in one of Cleveland’s most dangerous neighborhoods.

“I’m just young, don’t know much about politics, but I know she’s a good woman,” Mr. Williams said, growing emotional after Ms. Turner leaned into his car to give him a hug. Given his experience in the prison system, he said, “the changes she’s trying to do — to even care a little bit about that situation — I definitely appreciate.”

I wonder what this guy was incarcerated for?  Shall we go dig up his crime and use it to condemn Nina for hugging him?  I guess she didn't get the "progressive" memo that once you commit a crime you're evil for life.

[Ancestral Republican]

NYTimes tried to write an article about the race and it's exactly what we've come to expect from the times.  Nationalizing the race, saying it's Bernie vs. Biden part II, and the coverage is extremely biased towards Nina (Shontel Brown only gets one quote in the entire article!).  The Times is obviously rooting for Nina so they can write more frenzied thinkpieces about "the insurgence within the Democratic Party" when she wins.

Fortunately nobody in OH-11 cares what the failing New York Times thinks.  PredictIt at 60-40 now.

The one good thing that could come from nationalizing this race is that we might get a few more polls.  That would also be good for Shontel, since her main problem right now seems to be lack of name recognition.

When your unhinged, deranged hatred of the left is so irrational you start using Trump language to attack a centrist liberal paper simply for covering the race.

Big brain time.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Root for Brown

[Utah Neolib]

Nina Turner is going to lose this, OH-11 doesn’t like Radical Socialists, Nina Turner couldn’t win this primary in 2012 and she can’t win this now