PA-SN 2022 megathread: Shrek vs. The Wizard of Oz

[jamestroll]

As someone with a disability, I am beyond disgusted at so many of you.

I thought Fetterman sounded perfectly fine considering what he's been through.

Oh you should have seen some of the deleted posts...

[KaiserDave]

Oz definitely won the debate there's no doubt about it in my mind. Will it matter? It's certainly possible. I'm just totally disgusted with the strange nasty people here on Atlas who seem to think its a good use of their time to insult disabled people and those in recovery on the internet. Have you ever had a friend, or a relative, who had a stroke, or a stutter, who is autistic, or a disability? Just, have basic empathy, or at least keep your nastiness to yourself. Shame, shame on you.

He didn't, but okay.

Oz clearly won. You could bottle the Dem cope in this thread.

No, he didn't. Nobody "won" the debate.

I mean "win" in the sense that that is how voters will perceive it.

[wbrocks67]

As someone with a disability, I am beyond disgusted at so many of you.

I thought Fetterman sounded perfectly fine considering what he's been through.

Yeah, as someone who has known people in real life who have had strokes, it can be BAD. Objectively, the fact that Fetterman is even on that stage mostly speaking in complete sentences 5-6 months after the stroke is incredibly impressive.

Some people take years to "recover" even that much.

[cg41386]

Oz definitely won the debate there's no doubt about it in my mind. Will it matter? It's certainly possible. I'm just totally disgusted with the strange nasty people here on Atlas who seem to think its a good use of their time to insult disabled people and those in recovery on the internet. Have you ever had a friend, or a relative, who had a stroke, or a stutter, who is autistic, or a disability? Just, have basic empathy, or at least keep your nastiness to yourself. Shame, shame on you.

He didn't, but okay.

Oz clearly won. You could bottle the Dem cope in this thread.

No, he didn't. Nobody "won" the debate.

I mean "win" in the sense that that is how voters will perceive it.

Most voters probably didn't even watch the debate. Same with the Georgia debate. It's not going to make any difference, and nobody "won" either debate.

The abortion line was pretty stupid in a state like Pennsylvania. Obviously Roe isn't going to be the only issue in the election, but saying abortion should be "between a woman, her doctor, and local political leaders" is very stupid. Got to imagine that gem ends up in some late ads.

Ultimately that will determine who “won” the debate. Who can make the most ads from it. There’s enough material for the Fetterman campaign for the next 13 days.

Exactly. Unless I'm badly mistaken, basically nobody watches non-Presidential debates live. They are mostly important as a mine for opposition ads in the event of a candidate ing up. Plenty of material after today. I don't think anyone will deny that Oz won the debate, but he may not have done enough to actually win this race given his own issues.

I will deny it, nobody won the debate.

[wbrocks67]

Oz definitely won the debate there's no doubt about it in my mind. Will it matter? It's certainly possible. I'm just totally disgusted with the strange nasty people here on Atlas who seem to think its a good use of their time to insult disabled people and those in recovery on the internet. Have you ever had a friend, or a relative, who had a stroke, or a stutter, who is autistic, or a disability? Just, have basic empathy, or at least keep your nastiness to yourself. Shame, shame on you.

He didn't, but okay.

Oz clearly won. You could bottle the Dem cope in this thread.

No, he didn't. Nobody "won" the debate.

I mean "win" in the sense that that is how voters will perceive it.

Will they though? Fetterman's stuff was baked in. People know he had a stroke; he even prepared them for what may come. Oz's stuff was all unforced, and way more gaffe-y.

If you're metric is "Oz spoke all in complete sentences and Fetterman didn't", then sure Oz "won." But I think voters perceptions will be a lot more nuanced.

They may not, they may think Fetterman is "not fit." Or they may have seen someone who is vulnerable and recovering - and a lot more authentic on that stage than Oz. I guess we'll just have to wait and find out.

[wbrocks67]

Oz definitely won the debate there's no doubt about it in my mind. Will it matter? It's certainly possible. I'm just totally disgusted with the strange nasty people here on Atlas who seem to think its a good use of their time to insult disabled people and those in recovery on the internet. Have you ever had a friend, or a relative, who had a stroke, or a stutter, who is autistic, or a disability? Just, have basic empathy, or at least keep your nastiness to yourself. Shame, shame on you.

He didn't, but okay.

Oz clearly won. You could bottle the Dem cope in this thread.

No, he didn't. Nobody "won" the debate.

I mean "win" in the sense that that is how voters will perceive it.

Most voters probably didn't even watch the debate. Same with the Georgia debate. It's not going to make any difference, and nobody "won" either debate.

I suspect, like GA, it was likely more partisans that watched than anything else.

If that GA debate didn't move the needle - with Walker's badge gaffe being even more viral than Oz's abortion comment, than I don't know how much this will move things. But that's good news for Fetterman, then.

[SCNCmod]

I'm not going to be ableist, but trying to campaign in a highly competitive race while recovering from a stroke is never going to be easy its probably impossible. You can say this without attacking him for struggling for his words. Fetterman should've done the responsible thing and stepped aside given the stakes.

Fetterman can do the job, absolutely. I do feel like some conservatives are using his disabilities to their cruel advantage.

Even if Fetterman did not recover any further- he is certainly more qualified to hold office than Hershel Walker.

But regarding Fetterman- its my understanding that someone who has already recovered enough to continue campaigning and take place in a debate- will almost definitely have a full recovery of his auditory processing/ speech skills.

[Dani Rose]

The past hour seems to have shifted a little bit on Twitter...acknowledgment that Fetterman was terrible but Oz may have made a major gaffe on the abortion clip.

Knew it. Oz outtalked Fetterman, but he also ended up making a relentlessly negative soundbite of himself in the process.

[SCNCmod]

Fetterman is having lingering Auditory Processing skills... Which basically makes it hard to quickly communicate  what he is thinking.  But his underlying IQ, ability to think, etc ... were not affected.

[wbrocks67]

I'm honestly shocked the Oz "I wasn't speaking clearly enough for you, John" clip isn't making more rounds. That was the most egregious of all.

[Dani Rose]

I'm honestly shocked the Oz "I wasn't speaking clearly enough for you, John" clip isn't making more rounds. That was the most egregious of all.

I'm not surprised it was buried by the abortion gaffe, as horrific as that comment was, given abortion has been the source of every single one of our overperformances all year long. As with most of Oz's baggage, though, look for that one to boomerang back around and nail him too.

[wbrocks67]

https://twitter.com/DavidABergstein/status/1585101759940173824?cxt=HHwWgICl4eDpt...

[wbrocks67]

It's MSNBC late night, so not exactly a total "unbiased" source, but it already made its way there-

https://twitter.com/KevinTober94/status/1585108655241846784

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

You can see the canine sweat dripping from his forehead - very disgusting!

[jamestroll]

Anyone wish to tell me directly why they look down on people with speech impediments?

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

I don't know how much focus groups are worth, but this is... unwelcoming.
https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1585087995304345601
Both the responses, and the fact that Chris Cuomo is still working.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Oz might have overplayed his hand re: Fetterman's speech problems. His speaking faster made it easier for him to make gaffes.

[kwabbit]

Lol 47/50 of the last posts have been arguing against Oz winning the debate.

Oz obviously won. The only people who say that he didn't win are the posters completely incapable of acknowledging something was bad for the Democrats and Fetterman stan Sawx.

Yes, Oz made a gaffe on abortion that is capable of hurting him, but the tape of him saying abortion is murder has been broadcast millions upon millions of times already, so who knows if that'll be impactful.

We can't know how it affect things until there's polling/e-day, but the prior should obviously that it helps Oz a bit, with a tie or a big victory being with the realm of possibility.

[jamestroll]

Lol 47/50 of the last posts have been arguing against Oz winning the debate.

Oz obviously won. The only people who say that he didn't win are the posters completely incapable of acknowledging something was bad for the Democrats and Fetterman stan Sawx.

Yes, Oz made a gaffe on abortion that is capable of hurting him, but the tape of him saying abortion is murder has been broadcast millions upon millions of times already, so who knows if that'll be impactful.

We can't know how it affect things until there's polling/e-day, but the prior should obviously that it helps Oz a bit, with a tie or a big victory being with the realm of possibility.

you are just able-ist like most rethugs here

[Dani Rose]

I don't know how much focus groups are worth

Not much, in my experience. The fact that Oz gave Fetterman an absolutely horrible soundbite to use against him is going to way outweigh the immediate aftermath.

[kwabbit]

Lol 47/50 of the last posts have been arguing against Oz winning the debate.

Oz obviously won. The only people who say that he didn't win are the posters completely incapable of acknowledging something was bad for the Democrats and Fetterman stan Sawx.

Yes, Oz made a gaffe on abortion that is capable of hurting him, but the tape of him saying abortion is murder has been broadcast millions upon millions of times already, so who knows if that'll be impactful.

We can't know how it affect things until there's polling/e-day, but the prior should obviously that it helps Oz a bit, with a tie or a big victory being with the realm of possibility.

you are just able-ist like most rethugs here

Jimmy, you said you'd be mean to me if Oz wins on election day, not two weeks before it. 

[Ferguson97]

I don't know how much focus groups are worth, but this is... unwelcoming.
https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1585087995304345601
Both the responses, and the fact that Chris Cuomo is still working.

I don't doubt that a lot of people like this exist, but really how difficult would it be to just lie, say you're undecided, and then say that the candidate you secretly like blew you away and now you're voting for them?

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

Lol 47/50 of the last posts have been arguing against Oz winning the debate.

Oz obviously won. The only people who say that he didn't win are the posters completely incapable of acknowledging something was bad for the Democrats and Fetterman stan Sawx.

Yes, Oz made a gaffe on abortion that is capable of hurting him, but the tape of him saying abortion is murder has been broadcast millions upon millions of times already, so who knows if that'll be impactful.

We can't know how it affect things until there's polling/e-day, but the prior should obviously that it helps Oz a bit, with a tie or a big victory being with the realm of possibility.

I've said consistently that the debate was a wash. Putting his cognitive issues aside, Fetterman did not capitalize on issues like abortion as strongly as he could have, and he absolutely failed on the fracking question. All I said was that nobody "won" or accomplished their goals.

Dr. Oz needed to not come off as a desperate, unlikeable asshole. He came off like a desperate, unlikeable asshole. He also endorsed giving Doug Mastriano the right to make decisions on a woman's right to choose.

If you want to distract from your candidate's abortion gaffe, go right ahead, but don't misrepresent my positions in order to make your point.

[jamestroll]

Lol 47/50 of the last posts have been arguing against Oz winning the debate.

Oz obviously won. The only people who say that he didn't win are the posters completely incapable of acknowledging something was bad for the Democrats and Fetterman stan Sawx.

Yes, Oz made a gaffe on abortion that is capable of hurting him, but the tape of him saying abortion is murder has been broadcast millions upon millions of times already, so who knows if that'll be impactful.

We can't know how it affect things until there's polling/e-day, but the prior should obviously that it helps Oz a bit, with a tie or a big victory being with the realm of possibility.

you are just able-ist like most rethugs here

Jimmy, you said you'd be mean to me if Oz wins on election day, not two weeks before it. 

I won't be mean.

But may I ask why some conservatives look down on people with speed impediments?

[Devils30]

I don't know how much focus groups are worth

Not much, in my experience. The fact that Oz gave Fetterman an absolutely horrible soundbite to use against him is going to way outweigh the immediate aftermath.

Most people just watch the soundbites, very few undecided/swing voters care about these Senate (or anything below presidential) debates. They will watch their shows or sports over this stuff without any doubt.