COVID-19 Megathread 5: The Trumps catch COVID-19

[CellarDoor]

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1187829299207954437

A reminder that it didn't need to be this way.

Well of course no country on earth is prepared for a pandemic if you ask government epidemiologists and big pharma lobbyists.  How else would they get their $$$? 

This is like when the American Academy of Civil Engineers every year gives the vast majority of states a bad grade on road infrastructure.  Serious risk-seeking and adverse incentives are at play.   

We're in the mess we're in because the Trump administration didn't take this seriously.  They were warned by their own intelligence communities countless times during crucial months and took no action because they were worried about the stock market.  That's the point.  On the same day Biden was tweeting about pandemic preparedness, Trump was tweeting about the features of his iPhone.

The Obama administration took this stuff seriously.  I suggest you read up on the actions Obama and his administration took in response to the H1N1 and Ebola outbreaks.  They similarly put together a team/game plan designed to fight this stuff, and the Trump administration ignored it.  Having a hundred-thousand Americans die in a pandemic was avoidable.  It happened because this administration has no idea what they are doing and they don't care.

[It’s so Joever]

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1187829299207954437

A reminder that it didn't need to be this way.

Well of course no country on earth is prepared for a pandemic if you ask government epidemiologists and big pharma lobbyists.  How else would they get their $$$? 

This is like when the American Academy of Civil Engineers every year gives the vast majority of states a bad grade on road infrastructure.  Serious risk-seeking and adverse incentives are at play.   

As someone who’s parents worked with the NIH, you are absolutely insane. Government epidemiologists and NIH workers are so limited they can’t even do things that seem perfectly ethical and normal, much less can they even think about being paid to shill. There are so many regulations preventing that, it just doesn’t happen. Of course, facts don’t matter when you are pushing an anti-scientist narrative.

[Omega21]

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1187829299207954437

A reminder that it didn't need to be this way.

Well of course no country on earth is prepared for a pandemic if you ask government epidemiologists and big pharma lobbyists.  How else would they get their $$$? 

This is like when the American Academy of Civil Engineers every year gives the vast majority of states a bad grade on road infrastructure.  Serious risk-seeking and adverse incentives are at play.   

That's a great argument against the incentivized for profit prison system you guys love, as the contracts often include capacity clauses which state that the Govt must dish out some fines to the company if they're not at a certain capacity.

It's not such a good argument against state employed epidemiologists.

[Del Tachi]

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1187829299207954437

A reminder that it didn't need to be this way.

Well of course no country on earth is prepared for a pandemic if you ask government epidemiologists and big pharma lobbyists.  How else would they get their $$$? 

This is like when the American Academy of Civil Engineers every year gives the vast majority of states a bad grade on road infrastructure.  Serious risk-seeking and adverse incentives are at play.   

As someone who’s parents worked with the NIH, you are absolutely insane. Government epidemiologists and NIH workers are so limited they can’t even do things that seem perfectly ethical and normal, much less can they even think about being paid to shill. There are so many regulations preventing that, it just doesn’t happen. Of course, facts don’t matter when you are pushing an anti-scientist narrative.

As someone who has worked in both Federal and state executive service, what makes you think I don’t know what the functions of regulatory big-wigs are?  Self-preservation is the name of the game.  Government agencies and their associated professional/interest groups constantly lobby for increased resources.  Saying your regulatory area is chronically underserved is one of the best ways to do that.  The CDC or NIH are no different.

I swear, for a political forum it never ceases to amaze me the juvenile approach many take to politics here.  This isn’t a conspiracy, just a general note on agency dynamics and intergovernmental lobbying you would have learned in any 300 level poli sci class at a third-rate commuter college.  The NIH and CDC aren’t exempted from iron triangles because doctors are “good guys” or whatever. 

[Del Tachi]

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1187829299207954437

A reminder that it didn't need to be this way.

Well of course no country on earth is prepared for a pandemic if you ask government epidemiologists and big pharma lobbyists.  How else would they get their $$$? 

This is like when the American Academy of Civil Engineers every year gives the vast majority of states a bad grade on road infrastructure.  Serious risk-seeking and adverse incentives are at play.   

Government epidemiologists aren't paid to schill for big pharma.

I never said they were.  Government epidemiologists and pharma are perfectly capable of (independently) lobbying for additional resources for pandemic control, drug research, and other big $$$$ items.  It’s still self-preservation.

[President Johnson]

Governor Andrew Cuomo takes action to require masks in stores:

https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1266036686053613574

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Governor Andrew Cuomo takes action to require masks in stores:

https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1266036686053613574

New York’s Phase 1 reopening dashboard was great and seemed like an ideal way to handle reopening in a transparent way based on health care capacity and scientific data.  Now two weeks have passed since Phase 1 started, and officials have signaled that Phase 2 would being in some regions in the next couple days.  But where is the Phase 2 dashboard???

[Calthrina950]

Governor Andrew Cuomo takes action to require masks in stores:

https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1266036686053613574

Weren't face masks required in New York already? I don't understand what this order is intended to accomplish.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1265969361648582658

In any other administration, Democratic or Republican, this would be a scandal.  In this one, it's barely noise.

[Smeulders]

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1187829299207954437

A reminder that it didn't need to be this way.

Well of course no country on earth is prepared for a pandemic if you ask government epidemiologists and big pharma lobbyists.  How else would they get their $$$? 

This is like when the American Academy of Civil Engineers every year gives the vast majority of states a bad grade on road infrastructure.  Serious risk-seeking and adverse incentives are at play.   

As someone who’s parents worked with the NIH, you are absolutely insane. Government epidemiologists and NIH workers are so limited they can’t even do things that seem perfectly ethical and normal, much less can they even think about being paid to shill. There are so many regulations preventing that, it just doesn’t happen. Of course, facts don’t matter when you are pushing an anti-scientist narrative.

As someone who has worked in both Federal and state executive service, what makes you think I don’t know what the functions of regulatory big-wigs are?  Self-preservation is the name of the game.  Government agencies and their associated professional/interest groups constantly lobby for increased resources.  Saying your regulatory area is chronically underserved is one of the best ways to do that.  The CDC or NIH are no different.

I swear, for a political forum it never ceases to amaze me the juvenile approach many take to politics here.  This isn’t a conspiracy, just a general note on agency dynamics and intergovernmental lobbying you would have learned in any 300 level poli sci class at a third-rate commuter college.  The NIH and CDC aren’t exempted from iron triangles because doctors are “good guys” or whatever. 

"People always overestimate the importance of what they do, so I will disregard experts when they talk about their fields?" That has got to be one of the laziest ways of dismissing experts I've ever seen. Pretty sure you only troth that one out when experts say something you disagree with though. When Elon Musk was criticizing safety regulations you applauded him instead of noting disregarding regulations would make him money.  

I also note that you didn't even attempt to engage on the substance. That would have been pretty hard given how the lack of preparedness for pandemics is being demonstrated every day this thing goes on. No, just tried to get in a swipe at experts. You can't deny the inconvenient truths, but you sure can shoot the messenger.

[Mr. Reactionary]

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1187829299207954437

A reminder that it didn't need to be this way.

Well of course no country on earth is prepared for a pandemic if you ask government epidemiologists and big pharma lobbyists.  How else would they get their $$$? 

This is like when the American Academy of Civil Engineers every year gives the vast majority of states a bad grade on road infrastructure.  Serious risk-seeking and adverse incentives are at play.   

Government epidemiologists aren't paid to schill for big pharma.

I never said they were.  Government epidemiologists and pharma are perfectly capable of (independently) lobbying for additional resources for pandemic control, drug research, and other big $$$$ items.  It’s still self-preservation.

Yeah. Regulatory capture is especially prevalent in these healthcare agencies.

[Omega21]

Governor Andrew Cuomo takes action to require masks in stores:

https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1266036686053613574

I really really hope this is already the case for public transport as well.

If yes, normal, sane decision.

If people can't be bothered to wear a thin piece of fabric for a short part of their day in certain spaces, I guess they can just use their own cars and order stuff online.

[Koharu]

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1187829299207954437
A reminder that it didn't need to be this way.

Well of course no country on earth is prepared for a pandemic if you ask government epidemiologists and big pharma lobbyists.  How else would they get their $$$? 

This is like when the American Academy of Civil Engineers every year gives the vast majority of states a bad grade on road infrastructure.  Serious risk-seeking and adverse incentives are at play.   

As someone who’s parents worked with the NIH, you are absolutely insane. Government epidemiologists and NIH workers are so limited they can’t even do things that seem perfectly ethical and normal, much less can they even think about being paid to shill. There are so many regulations preventing that, it just doesn’t happen. Of course, facts don’t matter when you are pushing an anti-scientist narrative.

As someone who has worked in both Federal and state executive service, what makes you think I don’t know what the functions of regulatory big-wigs are?  Self-preservation is the name of the game.  Government agencies and their associated professional/interest groups constantly lobby for increased resources.  Saying your regulatory area is chronically underserved is one of the best ways to do that.  The CDC or NIH are no different.

I swear, for a political forum it never ceases to amaze me the juvenile approach many take to politics here.  This isn’t a conspiracy, just a general note on agency dynamics and intergovernmental lobbying you would have learned in any 300 level poli sci class at a third-rate commuter college.  The NIH and CDC aren’t exempted from iron triangles because doctors are “good guys” or whatever. 

Of course experts push for their area to get more funding in normal times. Most areas are extremely underfunded. The AACE gives most states a bad grade because most states have absolutely abysmal roads, thanks to tax cuts etc.

That's not to say that experts don't also play politics when it comes to getting funding, but that doesn't also mean they're lying about the state of things, either. This isn't an either-or situation.

[Calthrina950]

Governor Andrew Cuomo takes action to require masks in stores:

https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1266036686053613574

I really really hope this is already the case for public transport as well.

If yes, normal, sane decision.

If people can't be bothered to wear a thin piece of fabric for a short part of their day in certain spaces, I guess they can just use their own cars and order stuff online.

I continue to remain wary of mask mandates emanating from government, especially if they come attached with penalties of some kind. And as we move into summer, I am beginning to wonder whether or not they will truly be a permanent fixture of society until there is a vaccine.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Governor Andrew Cuomo takes action to require masks in stores:

https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1266036686053613574

I really really hope this is already the case for public transport as well.

If yes, normal, sane decision.

If people can't be bothered to wear a thin piece of fabric for a short part of their day in certain spaces, I guess they can just use their own cars and order stuff online.

I continue to remain wary of mask mandates emanating from government, especially if they come attached with penalties of some kind. And as we move into summer, I am beginning to wonder whether or not they will truly be a permanent fixture of society until there is a vaccine.

The bulk of the Virginia county attorneys on a listserv I'm part of through work are furious at how poorly crafted Northam's mask order is. No one knows what to do if someone without a mask on tries to enter a local government building when we all open to the public in a couple of weeks. Northam specifically said only the State Health Department can enforce it, not police, and only after getting court approval in each individual case FIRST. If someone shows up to a City Council meeting without a mask there's very little authority to do anything and general trespass laws really don't seem to apply to this in the context of open to the public by right meetings. Lynchburg and Colonial Heights are going to leave maskless people alone under the above hypothetical. One suburban county near Richmond is planning on suing if their public bus drivers are required by the health department to wear masks since they apparently jerryrigged some sort of isolation barriers around the drivers. We are only going to require our employees to wear masks when interacting with a customer (they are free to wear them whenever by choice).

The decision to do this so late in the game and then to completely concentrate new enforcement duties into a tiny bureaucracy that actually can't carry out the order is so stupid. Apparently Northam is looking to have another special legislative session to get the power to impose civil fines for violating his orders since legally that mechanism does not exist. Because the VDH is non-LEO they only issue civil citations and existing law only allows for criminal penalties for violating a governor order, this order is basically illegal at the moment. That's why he used the oxymoronic phrase "civil misdemeanor" when describing it. It's basically a big, politicized bluff, all to save face for disobeying his own recommendations. And the haphazard way in which it is being obeyed renders whatever marginal benefit the masks provide practically useless. When I voted last week every single poll work had the mask pulled down below their nose. The way they are going about this in VA is virtue signaling at its worst, just a ploy to show "something" is being done. Until civil penalties can be issued to enforce the order they basically can only go to court and get an injunction against a maskless violator which means for days nothing can be done.

An additional issue that has come up is what to do about concealed carry permittees. Under the terms of a VA concealed weapons permit it is illegal to wear a mask while carrying, and very little guidance has been provided on if the governor's mask order which is silent on concealed carry can and did suspend the no masks while carrying provision or not. Up til now we've been charging criminals with wearing a mask in public if they had a mask on while in the commission of a different crime. Does violating the permit now constitute a different crime? Northam and Herring don't know.

[Omega21]

Governor Andrew Cuomo takes action to require masks in stores:

https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1266036686053613574

I really really hope this is already the case for public transport as well.

If yes, normal, sane decision.

If people can't be bothered to wear a thin piece of fabric for a short part of their day in certain spaces, I guess they can just use their own cars and order stuff online.

I continue to remain wary of mask mandates emanating from government, especially if they come attached with penalties of some kind. And as we move into summer, I am beginning to wonder whether or not they will truly be a permanent fixture of society until there is a vaccine.

I mean, would it really be that bad wearing a really thin mask while you're in the grocery store or in public transit?

That's basically where people wear them here, and it's not an issue.

Plus, it's not really jeopardizing anyone's right to free movement etc., it's just requiring people to have a 40 cent mask on in a few places lol

[Calthrina950]

Governor Andrew Cuomo takes action to require masks in stores:

https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1266036686053613574

I really really hope this is already the case for public transport as well.

If yes, normal, sane decision.

If people can't be bothered to wear a thin piece of fabric for a short part of their day in certain spaces, I guess they can just use their own cars and order stuff online.

I continue to remain wary of mask mandates emanating from government, especially if they come attached with penalties of some kind. And as we move into summer, I am beginning to wonder whether or not they will truly be a permanent fixture of society until there is a vaccine.

I mean, would it really be that bad wearing a really thin mask while you're in the grocery store or in public transit?

That's basically where people wear them here, and it's not an issue.

Plus, it's not really jeopardizing anyone's right to free movement etc., it's just requiring people to have a 40 cent mask on in a few places lol

I've said before that I don't have an inherent problem with mask-wearing in itself. I'm required to wear one on my job, and I wear them whenever I go out in public. What I have a problem is with government mandating their use, particularly with fines or penalties attached. I've also expressed my belief that businesses should be allowed to require their customers to don them while on their premises.

[KaiserDave]

Governor Andrew Cuomo takes action to require masks in stores:

https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1266036686053613574

I really really hope this is already the case for public transport as well.

If yes, normal, sane decision.

If people can't be bothered to wear a thin piece of fabric for a short part of their day in certain spaces, I guess they can just use their own cars and order stuff online.

I continue to remain wary of mask mandates emanating from government, especially if they come attached with penalties of some kind. And as we move into summer, I am beginning to wonder whether or not they will truly be a permanent fixture of society until there is a vaccine.

I mean, would it really be that bad wearing a really thin mask while you're in the grocery store or in public transit?

That's basically where people wear them here, and it's not an issue.

Plus, it's not really jeopardizing anyone's right to free movement etc., it's just requiring people to have a 40 cent mask on in a few places lol

I've said before that I don't have an inherent problem with mask-wearing in itself. I'm required to wear one on my job, and I wear them whenever I go out in public. What I have a problem is with government mandating their use, particularly with fines or penalties attached. I've also expressed my belief that businesses should be allowed to require their customers to don them while on their premises.

Agreed entirely.

[Dr. Arch]

The updated numbers for COVID-19 in the U.S. are in for 5/28 per: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

I'm keeping track of these updates daily and updating at the end of the day, whenever all states finish reporting for that day.

Δ Change: Day-by-day Growth or Decline or COVID-19 Spread/Deaths.

• IE: Are we flattening the curve enough?

Σ Increase: A day's contribution to overall percentage growth of COVID-19 cases/deaths.

• IE: What's the overall change in the total?

<Last Numbers for 3/26-3/28 in this Post>
<Last Numbers for 3/29-4/4 in this Post>
<Last Numbers for 4/5-4/11 in this Post>
<Last Numbers for 4/12-4/18 in this Post>
<Last Numbers for 4/19-4/25 in this post>
<Last Numbers for 4/26-5/2 in this post>
<Last Numbers for 5/3-5/9 in this post>
<Last Numbers for 5/10-5/16 in this post>

5/17: <Sunday>

• Cases: 1,526,842 (+21,809 | Δ Change: ↑2.40% | Σ Increase: ↑1.44%)
• Deaths: 90,973 (+1,462 | Δ Change: ↑41.67% | Σ Increase: ↑1.45%)

5/18:

• Cases: 1,550,294 (+23,452 | Δ Change: ↑7.53% | Σ Increase: ↑1.54%)
• Deaths: 91,981 (+1,008 | Δ Change: ↓31.05% | Σ Increase: ↑1.11%)

5/19:

• Cases: 1,570,583 (+20,289 | Δ Change: ↓13.49% | Σ Increase: ↑1.31%)
• Deaths: 93,533 (+1,552 | Δ Change: ↑53.97% | Σ Increase: ↑1.69%)

5/20:

• Cases: 1,591,991 (+21,408 | Δ Change: ↑5.52% | Σ Increase: ↑1.36%)
• Deaths: 94,994 (+1,461 | Δ Change: ↓5.86% | Σ Increase: ↑1.56%)

5/21:

• Cases: 1,620,902 (+28,911 | Δ Change: ↑35.05% | Σ Increase: ↑1.82%)
• Deaths: 96,354 (+1,360 | Δ Change: ↓6.91% | Σ Increase: ↑1.43%)

5/22:

• Cases: 1,645,094 (+24,192 | Δ Change: ↓16.32% | Σ Increase: ↑1.49%)
• Deaths: 97,647 (+1,293 | Δ Change: ↓4.93% | Σ Increase: ↑1.34%)

5/23:

• Cases: 1,666,828 (+21,734 | Δ Change: ↓10.16% | Σ Increase: ↑1.32%)
• Deaths: 98,683 (+1,036 | Δ Change: ↓19.88% | Σ Increase: ↑1.06%)

5/24: <Sunday>

• Cases: 1,686,436 (+19,608 | Δ Change: ↓9.78% | Σ Increase: ↑1.18%)
• Deaths: 99,300 (+617 | Δ Change: ↓40.44% | Σ Increase: ↑0.63%)

5/25:

• Cases: 1,706,224 (+19,788 | Δ Change: ↑0.92% | Σ Increase: ↑1.17%)
• Deaths: 99,805 (+505 | Δ Change: ↓18.15% | Σ Increase: ↑0.51%)

5/26:

• Cases: 1,725,141 (+18,917 | Δ Change: ↓4.40% | Σ Increase: ↑1.11%)
• Deaths: 100,579 (+774 | Δ Change: ↑53.27% | Σ Increase: ↑0.78%)

5/27 (Yesterday):

• Cases: 1,745,803 (+20,662 | Δ Change: ↑9.22% | Σ Increase: ↑1.20%)
• Deaths: 102,107 (+1,528 | Δ Change: ↑97.42% | Σ Increase: ↑1.52%)

5/28 (Today):

• Cases: 1,768,461 (+22,658 | Δ Change: ↑9.66% | Σ Increase: ↑1.30%)
• Deaths: 103,330 (+1,223 | Δ Change: ↓19.96% | Σ Increase: ↑1.20%)

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Governor Andrew Cuomo takes action to require masks in stores:

https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1266036686053613574

I really really hope this is already the case for public transport as well.

If yes, normal, sane decision.

If people can't be bothered to wear a thin piece of fabric for a short part of their day in certain spaces, I guess they can just use their own cars and order stuff online.

I continue to remain wary of mask mandates emanating from government, especially if they come attached with penalties of some kind. And as we move into summer, I am beginning to wonder whether or not they will truly be a permanent fixture of society until there is a vaccine.

I think these orders have gone on long enough. It's been March since the country actually started getting a large number of cases. March. And we're still getting a lot of cases when it's almost June?

Never would have thought we'd have this many cases for this long.

[woodley park]

Governor Andrew Cuomo takes action to require masks in stores:

https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1266036686053613574

I really really hope this is already the case for public transport as well.

If yes, normal, sane decision.

If people can't be bothered to wear a thin piece of fabric for a short part of their day in certain spaces, I guess they can just use their own cars and order stuff online.

I continue to remain wary of mask mandates emanating from government, especially if they come attached with penalties of some kind. And as we move into summer, I am beginning to wonder whether or not they will truly be a permanent fixture of society until there is a vaccine.

I think these orders have gone on long enough. It's been March since the country actually started getting a large number of cases. March. And we're still getting a lot of cases when it's almost June?

Never would have thought we'd have this many cases for this long.

Just imagine where we would be if we had not done anything.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Just imagine where we would be if we had not done anything.

I think science is doing something. There could be some sort of positive development at any time, and it's hard to predict what form it will take.

But I really can't take any more of the social distancing.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Georgia’s recent spike in new COVID-19 cases likely indicates the virus is spreading and cannot be solely attributed to a surge in testing, a prominent public health expert said Thursday.
...
More diagnostic testing was certainly turning up more new cases, but the partial end of the state’s shelter-in-place order, allowing most Georgians to move about, is a key reason behind a 26% percent rise in cases between the weeks of May 11 and May 18, Del Rio said.

https://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-news/spike-georgia-covid-cases-partly-from-virus-spread-expert-says/ScJKBSS7S4UMhVG60iALxL/

[emailking]

The stories have been mostly separate, but I'm worried all these protests/riots could fuel some big spikes in cases or even outbreaks.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

The stories have been mostly separate, but I'm worried all these protests/riots could fuel some big spikes in cases or even outbreaks.

Going to be very interesting to see "blacks only have higher rates of infection because they were out rioting" discourse in two weeks.