COVID-19 Megathread 5: The Trumps catch COVID-19

[emailking]

It’s also a reason for us to have a strictly enforced lockdown for a shorter period of time, as opposed to a mild-lockdown which requires months to have an impact and ironically exposes more people to the virus.

Are you saying are mild lockdowns expose more people than if we hadn't done anything?

[It’s so Joever]

It’s also a reason for us to have a strictly enforced lockdown for a shorter period of time, as opposed to a mild-lockdown which requires months to have an impact and ironically exposes more people to the virus.

Are you saying are mild lockdowns expose more people than if we hadn't done anything?

My bad, no.
I’m saying longer mild lockdowns expose more people and hurt the economy more than shorter but stricter lockdowns.

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

Does anybody know if Penn Quaker is alive and well? Just realized I haven't seen her post in some time and she was getting over Covid-19. I'm probably being paranoid and she's just busy with real life. She was always posting in this thread specifically.

Still alive and well, yes!

Just been busy wrapping up some end-of-the-school-year stuff!

If you hadn't responded, I was going to say "it's finals time," which, even with education being what it is right now, is a busy and stresseful time!

Yup! Finals wrapped up this past week (except for a handful undergrad courses).  

[GeorgiaModerate]

On the subject of college students learning from home, I saw this article about a music department delivering keyboards to the homes of its piano students.  It made me wonder about medical students in this situation <pictures home delivery and pickup of cadavers for study>.

[Beet]

"We're the last major domestic mask company," he wrote on Jan. 23. "My phones are ringing now, so I don't 'need' government business. I'm just letting you know that I can help... I'm a patriot first, businessman second."

In the end, the government did not take Bowen up on his offer. Even today, production lines that could be making 7 million masks a month sit dormant.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/in-the-early-days-of-the-pandemic-the-us-government-turned-down-an-offer-to-manufacture-millions-of-n95-masks-in-america/2020/05/09/f76a821e-908a-11ea-a9c0-73b93422d691_story.html

[Del Tachi]

https://twitter.com/doctorow/status/1258782599918637057

What an egregious take.

Re-opening is primarily to benefit the 1%?? Have you seen the stock market lately? its up on the year. Its pushing new highs again. The 1% are doing just fine and most have plenty of savings to get them through this. The people who need to go back to work are the ones living paycheck to paycheck. People working jobs in the service industry or hospitality industry who have been furloughed, especially since we have no UBI bill passed.

My God....

This.

I live in a state that is heavily dependent on the hospitality industry.  When you get away from the corporate investors in Disney, Hotels, Resorts, etc, you get to the incomes of the smaller hotels, motels, and independent restaurants, and the workers in all of these places, including servers, drivers, entertainers, etc.  And by "entertainers", I'm talking about a wide number of folks who are NOT famous and NOT celebrities.  Think of how many "entertainers" work at Walt Disney World.  (Employees at Disney are "cast members".  Those who work with the public are "onstage", while those who are support staff are "backstage".)  These are NOT the 1%.  These are working people who need this to live. 

I've been deep in thought on a lot of things this week.  One conclusion I've come to is that the Nanny State that many Democrats advocate is going to be anything but "liberal".  I think it's fair to say that we're seeing that right now.  There's no regard for the individual Constitutional liberties and rights of others on the part of these Governors who seem to enjoy issuing restrictive lockdown orders, even if the science doesn't clearly justify it.  (And science is showing that the fastest number of new deaths from COVID-19 in NY are from folks staying at home.)

I'm thinking about a lot of things.  One thing I'm thinking about is the that today's Democratic Governors are something other than liberal.

Are you opposed to either of these plans?

Hawley's worker rehire plan

Jayapal's paycheck guarantee plan

Choosing between in-person work and a lockdown where people are unemployed is absolutely a false choice. Both parties have people suggesting plans to keep people on payrolls and cover other costs (e.g., paying rent/property maintenance costs, keeping employee health care) while not requiring them to go back to work. Do either of these plans sound appealing to you?

It’s not a false choice.  You’re either on the payroll creating profit for your employer or you’re unemployed.  Everything else is only a temporary, unsustainable-in-the-long-term stopgap measure.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/rachel_dz/status/1259273747514773505

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/rachel_dz/status/1259273747514773505

I saw an article somewhere that Ivanka Trump's personal assistant has also tested positive for coronavirus. The virus is now getting dangerously close to Pence and to the Trumps, if it hasn't already got them.

[Meclazine for Israel]

That’s why we have to vote this p****y grabber out!

But Joe Biden has not been elected yet.

[GeorgiaModerate]

That’s why we have to vote this p****y grabber out!

But Joe Biden has not been elected yet.

*plonk*

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

It is worth mentioning that the 7-day average for American deaths is now 1800, about 400 below its peak on April 21.  If we continue this rate of decline going forward, we would reach 0 deaths around July 27.

The 7-day cumulative average for deaths in the big 5 Euro countries is now 1258, down 2000 from its peak on April 8, and at its lowest level since March 24.

[T'Chenka]

That’s why we have to vote this p****y grabber out!

But Joe Biden has not been elected yet.

A swing and a miss.

Imagine thinking "both sides do it" is a moral or valid excuse for sexual assault.

[It’s so Joever]

That’s why we have to vote this p****y grabber out!

But Joe Biden has not been elected yet.

One is an unproven allegation.
The other one is a literal recording which he himself admitted to saying.
Nice try, thanks for playing.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

https://twitter.com/doctorow/status/1258782599918637057

What an egregious take.

Re-opening is primarily to benefit the 1%?? Have you seen the stock market lately? its up on the year. Its pushing new highs again. The 1% are doing just fine and most have plenty of savings to get them through this. The people who need to go back to work are the ones living paycheck to paycheck. People working jobs in the service industry or hospitality industry who have been furloughed, especially since we have no UBI bill passed.

My God....

This.

I live in a state that is heavily dependent on the hospitality industry.  When you get away from the corporate investors in Disney, Hotels, Resorts, etc, you get to the incomes of the smaller hotels, motels, and independent restaurants, and the workers in all of these places, including servers, drivers, entertainers, etc.  And by "entertainers", I'm talking about a wide number of folks who are NOT famous and NOT celebrities.  Think of how many "entertainers" work at Walt Disney World.  (Employees at Disney are "cast members".  Those who work with the public are "onstage", while those who are support staff are "backstage".)  These are NOT the 1%.  These are working people who need this to live.  

I've been deep in thought on a lot of things this week.  One conclusion I've come to is that the Nanny State that many Democrats advocate is going to be anything but "liberal".  I think it's fair to say that we're seeing that right now.  There's no regard for the individual Constitutional liberties and rights of others on the part of these Governors who seem to enjoy issuing restrictive lockdown orders, even if the science doesn't clearly justify it.  (And science is showing that the fastest number of new deaths from COVID-19 in NY are from folks staying at home.)

I'm thinking about a lot of things.  One thing I'm thinking about is the that today's Democratic Governors are something other than liberal.

Are you opposed to either of these plans?

Hawley's worker rehire plan

Jayapal's paycheck guarantee plan

Choosing between in-person work and a lockdown where people are unemployed is absolutely a false choice. Both parties have people suggesting plans to keep people on payrolls and cover other costs (e.g., paying rent/property maintenance costs, keeping employee health care) while not requiring them to go back to work. Do either of these plans sound appealing to you?

It’s not a false choice.  You’re either on the payroll creating profit for your employer or you’re unemployed.  Everything else is only a temporary, unsustainable-in-the-long-term stopgap measure.

Yes, if only the federal government had simultaneous programs in place which gave money to employers to maintain operations and pay workers and shored up other gaps in people's paychecks with some sort of... check, perhaps which provided some amount of stimulus money.

I don't understand why people trot out this point about temporary programs. Of course they are designed to be temporary stopgaps, as is nearly the entirety of the response to the virus. Nobody is arguing otherwise. Likewise, nobody is arguing that we continue to mass-assemble masks for perpetuity. What do you think you are proving?

You can oppose government aid on ideological grounds; that has its merits. But be honest about it; don't concern troll about people's household income, because there are obvious temporary workarounds to keep these people employed and receiving money. To do otherwise is absolutely a false choice in the sense that there are literally several proposed alternatives.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

Can someone with more expertise than me give any insight into how this works and what it would mean?

https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1259194332793446402

[It’s so Joever]

May 7

New cases: 456 (-15.7%)
Total cases: 18,827

New deaths: 16 (-30.4%)
Total deaths: 960

“Real cases” 758 (-29.3%)

May 8

New cases: 548 (+20.2%)
Total cases: 19,375


New deaths: 7 (-56.3%)
Total deaths: 967


“Real” cases: 1,166 (+53.8%)

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Can someone with more expertise than me give any insight into how this works and what it would mean?

It probably means not too many more people in the Bronx or Chelsea, Mass., will catch this virus.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

For anyone looking for a rare positive development in all this, today had the lowest percentage of positive tests since way back on March 16.

[Grassroots]

For anyone looking for a rare positive development in all this, today had the lowest percentage of positive tests since way back on March 16.

Rare?

[Bandit3 the Worker]

For anyone looking for a rare positive development in all this, today had the lowest percentage of positive tests since way back on March 16.

Rare?

Well, things are going much better now than they were in March or April.

[It’s so Joever]

For anyone looking for a rare positive development in all this, today had the lowest percentage of positive tests since way back on March 16.

Where do you find national positivity rates?

[100% pro-life no matter what]

For anyone looking for a rare positive development in all this, today had the lowest percentage of positive tests since way back on March 16.

Where do you find national positivity rates?

Nate Silver tweets it every day.

[Del Tachi]

https://twitter.com/doctorow/status/1258782599918637057

What an egregious take.

Re-opening is primarily to benefit the 1%?? Have you seen the stock market lately? its up on the year. Its pushing new highs again. The 1% are doing just fine and most have plenty of savings to get them through this. The people who need to go back to work are the ones living paycheck to paycheck. People working jobs in the service industry or hospitality industry who have been furloughed, especially since we have no UBI bill passed.

My God....

This.

I live in a state that is heavily dependent on the hospitality industry.  When you get away from the corporate investors in Disney, Hotels, Resorts, etc, you get to the incomes of the smaller hotels, motels, and independent restaurants, and the workers in all of these places, including servers, drivers, entertainers, etc.  And by "entertainers", I'm talking about a wide number of folks who are NOT famous and NOT celebrities.  Think of how many "entertainers" work at Walt Disney World.  (Employees at Disney are "cast members".  Those who work with the public are "onstage", while those who are support staff are "backstage".)  These are NOT the 1%.  These are working people who need this to live.  

I've been deep in thought on a lot of things this week.  One conclusion I've come to is that the Nanny State that many Democrats advocate is going to be anything but "liberal".  I think it's fair to say that we're seeing that right now.  There's no regard for the individual Constitutional liberties and rights of others on the part of these Governors who seem to enjoy issuing restrictive lockdown orders, even if the science doesn't clearly justify it.  (And science is showing that the fastest number of new deaths from COVID-19 in NY are from folks staying at home.)

I'm thinking about a lot of things.  One thing I'm thinking about is the that today's Democratic Governors are something other than liberal.

Are you opposed to either of these plans?

Hawley's worker rehire plan

Jayapal's paycheck guarantee plan

Choosing between in-person work and a lockdown where people are unemployed is absolutely a false choice. Both parties have people suggesting plans to keep people on payrolls and cover other costs (e.g., paying rent/property maintenance costs, keeping employee health care) while not requiring them to go back to work. Do either of these plans sound appealing to you?

It’s not a false choice.  You’re either on the payroll creating profit for your employer or you’re unemployed.  Everything else is only a temporary, unsustainable-in-the-long-term stopgap measure.

Yes, if only the federal government had simultaneous programs in place which gave money to employers to maintain operations and pay workers and shored up other gaps in people's paychecks with some sort of... check, perhaps which provided some amount of stimulus money.

I don't understand why people trot out this point about temporary programs. Of course they are designed to be temporary stopgaps, as is nearly the entirety of the response to the virus. Nobody is arguing otherwise. Likewise, nobody is arguing that we continue to mass-assemble masks for perpetuity. What do you think you are proving?

You can oppose government aid on ideological grounds; that has its merits. But be honest about it; don't concern troll about people's household income, because there are obvious temporary workarounds to keep these people employed and receiving money. To do otherwise is absolutely a false choice in the sense that there are literally several proposed alternatives.

Jayapal's plan is beyond ridiculous because it covers individual wages far above the national median (up to $100k) and reauthorizes payments until total personal consumer spending is 95% of what it was in December 2019 - February 2020 (which is potentially several months if not over a year from now).  It also requires any public or private company who takes funding to reserve corporate board seats for workers' representatives.  Unlike the PPP, payments are in the form of grants and not loans.

Hawley's plan, while more reasonable, still misses the mark.  It would only cover up to $33k in individual wages and would only run through the summer, but still represents an exercise in poor target efficiency.  Many workers in corporate, public sector, or public sector-adjacent positions don't need wage guarantees.  Moreover, having the government step in as "the buyer of last resort" to directly ensure wages is a high-cost subsidy to keep workers in positions where they aren't needed, and disrupts the natural incentive firms have to innovate in response to changing economic conditions.  If we let direct wage guarantees creep into the American social safety net, we risk the stagnant labor markets and high youth unemployment that plagued Europe's recovery to the Global Financial Crisis.

It's important to stress that strict government lockdowns are a public policy choice.  The damage is done, and the issue is to what to do now.  The virus will be with us for a long time unless there's a vaccine, so we have to learn to live with it and have a functioning economy.  While they enjoy blaming Donald Trump for the recent economic woes, Democratic governors have kept the economy sedated for far-longer than public health data would justify - hospitalizations/ICU admissions are down and testing is sufficient in many parts of the country.  The only road forward is to begin reopening to get Americans back to work.

[Tintrlvr]

The new positives rate (as a percentage of tests performed) in New York dropped below 10% for the first time since March 8 (when there were only 307 tests and 22 positives) today. Progress continues to be made here.

It dropped again today (tests went up, positive results went down). Given the trajectory, we may be looking at a positives rate as low as 5% in New York by next weekend.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Yesterday:

No masks and little social distancing at White House meeting, despite two aides testing positive for virus

Two White House aides may have tested positive for the coronavirus in the past two days, but President Donald Trump still held public events Friday with limited social distancing and without requiring participants to wear masks.

Two dozen House Republicans gathered with Trump and other administration officials in the State Dining Room at the White House on Friday afternoon to discuss the country's economic recovery from the pandemic. None of the attendees wore a mask.

“I do want to advise our media friends before they write stories about how we didn’t wear masks and we didn’t possibly socially distance adequately, that you saw to it that we had tests, and that nobody in here had the coronavirus unless it's somebody in the media,” said Rep. Louie Gohmert, R-Texas, during the meeting.

“So the only reason we would wear masks is if we were trying to protect ourselves from you in the media. And we're not scared of you. So that's why we can be here like this,” Gohmert continued.

Today:
Three top U.S. health chiefs enter self-quarantines

Three top-ranking Trump administration health officials are in some form of quarantine after possible exposure in the White House — forcing them to self-isolate from a disease they are responsible for fighting.

CDC Director Robert Redfield and Anthony Fauci, the government’s top infectious disease expert, on Saturday evening disclosed plans to isolate over the next two weeks after “low-risk” contact with an infected person. A day earlier, FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn began two weeks of self-quarantine after coming in contact with White House spokesperson Katie Miller, who tested positive for Covid-19 on Friday.