UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[PSOL]

So in me thinking exactly how Labour could win parliament. I don’t see any possible way without getting pressed Unionist voters, somewhat similar to how PSOE got and maintains their government in Spain. Only that sort of maximizes the gains of the factional battle in Labour.

Is there any indication that Labour is trying to attract these voters in England, Wales, N. Ireland, and critically Scotland—where Labour’s possible electorate got eaten up by SNP and unionists went to the Tories? Would such a strategy be viable?

[beesley]

So in me thinking exactly how Labour could win parliament. I don’t see any possible way without getting pressed Unionist voters, somewhat similar to how PSOE got and maintains their government in Spain. Only that sort of maximizes the gains of the factional battle in Labour.

Is there any indication that Labour is trying to attract these voters in England, Wales, N. Ireland, and critically Scotland—where Labour’s possible electorate got eaten up by SNP and unionists went to the Tories? Would such a strategy be viable?

What do you mean by pressed Unionist voters in England and Wales? I understand Scotland, which is always going to be tricky so long as the constitution is the main issue. Labour don't run candidates in Northern Ireland, btw. I'm no expert on Spanish politics, so you'll have to explain the comparison.

[NewYorkExpress]

Oxford Students voted to remove of portrait of Elizabeth II from their common room, citing Britain's colonial history.

Oxford University students have voted to remove a portrait of Queen Elizabeth II from a common room due to concerns about Britain's colonial history, The Washington Post reported Wednesday.

Students at Oxford's Magdalen College expressed concerns about the deception of British monarchy and their colonial history.

https://twitter.com/DinahRoseQC/status/1402329920752295945

https://twitter.com/DinahRoseQC/status/1402330589076897793

https://twitter.com/DinahRoseQC/status/1402330938160386050

https://twitter.com/DinahRoseQC/status/1402332027463122952

https://twitter.com/DinahRoseQC/status/1402482705959370755

https://twitter.com/DinahRoseQC/status/1402483232944361474

[Pericles]

I'm following Matt Hancock's testimony, while he is surely being dishonest (since he has said a few times that he has "no recollection" of stuff, and giving generally suspicious answers), it is still interesting to see. One point he raised is that he claims that only 1.6% of transmission into care homes came from discharges from hospitals. Maybe that's right, but the second wave death toll in care homes was about the same as the first wave toll even though the overall toll was much higher in the second wave-so it seems the unique vulnerability of care homes in the first wave was quite high (but perhaps this was for other reasons). Hancock also seems to be claiming that the first lockdown really started on 16 March, certainly social distancing doesn't perfectly line up with the exact start dates of the lockdown. However it is rather pathetic given that New Zealand locked down before we had a single death. He then seems to be implying that the scientific advice is to blame for the first lockdown being delayed, rather than the government. And that's partly right but the government was ultimately responsible and got it wrong, and notably other countries did better (or less bad) than the UK.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jun/10/uk-covid-live-news-latest-updates-matt-hancock-pandemic-coronavirus-brexit-g7

[Crumpets]

https://twitter.com/brfreed/status/1403415150045052934

[Former President tack50]

So in me thinking exactly how Labour could win parliament. I don’t see any possible way without getting pressed Unionist voters, somewhat similar to how PSOE got and maintains their government in Spain. Only that sort of maximizes the gains of the factional battle in Labour.

Is there any indication that Labour is trying to attract these voters in England, Wales, N. Ireland, and critically Scotland—where Labour’s possible electorate got eaten up by SNP and unionists went to the Tories? Would such a strategy be viable?

My only guess is that PSOL thinks that somehow there is a bunch of voters in England who will vote based off of "muh British unity"; much like we do in Spain; mostly concentrated in the usual areas trending away from the UK's Labour party presumably. The places he is thinking in Spain would be the southern third of the country (Extremadura and Andalucía most notably)

I suppose you could sort of draw a comparison between rural Andalucia and all the Corbyn 2017-Johnson 2019 places that also voted Leave by a lot in Northeast England in the sense that they are both trending away from the left; but that is literally where the similarities end.

There is absolutely no comparison whatsoever between rural Extremadura and a place like Sunderland or something.

What do you mean by pressed Unionist voters in England and Wales? I understand Scotland, which is always going to be tricky so long as the constitution is the main issue. Labour don't run candidates in Northern Ireland, btw. I'm no expert on Spanish politics, so you'll have to explain the comparison.

[PSOL]

So in me thinking exactly how Labour could win parliament. I don’t see any possible way without getting pressed Unionist voters, somewhat similar to how PSOE got and maintains their government in Spain. Only that sort of maximizes the gains of the factional battle in Labour.

Is there any indication that Labour is trying to attract these voters in England, Wales, N. Ireland, and critically Scotland—where Labour’s possible electorate got eaten up by SNP and unionists went to the Tories? Would such a strategy be viable?

What do you mean by pressed Unionist voters in England and Wales? I understand Scotland, which is always going to be tricky so long as the constitution is the main issue. Labour don't run candidates in Northern Ireland, btw. I'm no expert on Spanish politics, so you'll have to explain the comparison.

As I understand it, PSOE gained national and regional seats by those against separatist parties in hopes that it wouldn’t break apart Spain.

Well for example, the Tories did very well in the bordering regions of England because they’re closest to  England economically and culturally, for them splitting is a bad bet. Can Labour continue to win unionist votes in Scotland? What about moderate unionists in England?

[Geoffrey Howe]

So in me thinking exactly how Labour could win parliament. I don’t see any possible way without getting pressed Unionist voters, somewhat similar to how PSOE got and maintains their government in Spain. Only that sort of maximizes the gains of the factional battle in Labour.

Is there any indication that Labour is trying to attract these voters in England, Wales, N. Ireland, and critically Scotland—where Labour’s possible electorate got eaten up by SNP and unionists went to the Tories? Would such a strategy be viable?

What do you mean by pressed Unionist voters in England and Wales? I understand Scotland, which is always going to be tricky so long as the constitution is the main issue. Labour don't run candidates in Northern Ireland, btw. I'm no expert on Spanish politics, so you'll have to explain the comparison.

As I understand it, PSOE gained national and regional seats by those against separatist parties in hopes that it wouldn’t break apart Spain.

Well for example, the Tories did very well in the bordering regions of England because they’re closest to  England economically and culturally, for them splitting is a bad bet. Can Labour continue to win unionist votes in Scotland? What about moderate unionists in England?

They're not going to win "unionists in England" (people who care a lot about keeping Scotland) because Labour's path to government almost certainly means coalition with the SNP.

[CumbrianLefty]

Of course a lot of English Tories pay lip service to old-style Unionism, at best. They mostly don't care about Northern Ireland leaving even now, and Scotland and even Wales are going the same way.

[Geoffrey Howe]

Of course a lot of English Tories pay lip service to old-style Unionism, at best. They mostly don't care about Northern Ireland going even now, and Scotland and even Wales are going the same way.

Agreed. I am one of the few left (though I care more about Scotland than NI). It's one of the things which might keep me in the Tory camp despite Boris at the next election.

[Cassius]

https://youtu.be/XZD-uAo3vQ8

1.04 = Five seconds into watching a clip from the freshly launched GB News.

[Silent Hunter]

I had a look at that last night. Didn't last much longer myself.

[Blair]

https://twitter.com/brfreed/status/1403415150045052934

It's merely revenge for when Obama famously forgot to get Gordon Brown anything & sent his staff out to get DVDs of 'famous American films' which Brown couldn't watch due to the geographic block on them.

[Former President tack50]

I realize I am very late, and I don't really know where to post this, so I will put it here.

I have decided to map the 2021 Scottish election by "Unionism vs Secessionism"; ie basically "Green+SNP vs everyone else". Yes I realize that I used the constituency vote, and that therefore in may cases local factors apply and it's not a reliable indicator. And that the 2021 election wasn't really fought exclusively on independence.

Still it is a fun map to watch I would say. Here it goes (click to enlarge)

[Conservatopia]

There is a growing feeling that Boris has used up all his political capital with backbenchers over lockdown.  One MP has pretty much said if lockdown is extended again he will send Brady a letter.  I *think* Brady has one or two letters already.  Basically Boris cannot afford to let the new date slip.

[Geoffrey Howe]

There is a growing feeling that Boris has used up all his political capital with backbenchers over lockdown.  One MP has pretty much said if lockdown is extended again he will send Brady a letter.  I *think* Brady has one or two letters already.  Basically Boris cannot afford to let the new date slip.

Good, Parliament needs to assert itself. There is a contingent of the public that probably supports a forever-lockdown; but after a point most will take it into their own hands. If I were in Chesham and Amersham I might protest vote for an anti-lockdown outfit because my patience is finished.

[CumbrianLefty]

There is a growing feeling that Boris has used up all his political capital with backbenchers over lockdown.  One MP has pretty much said if lockdown is extended again he will send Brady a letter.  I *think* Brady has one or two letters already.  Basically Boris cannot afford to let the new date slip.

Good, Parliament needs to assert itself. There is a contingent of the public that probably supports a forever-lockdown; but after a point most will take it into their own hands. If I were in Chesham and Amersham I might protest vote for an anti-lockdown outfit because my patience is finished.

Given the increasingly loud whisperings about how it is going there, your "protest" vote could arguably be better given to the LibDems instead (and they have made a few lockdown sceptic noises recently)

[Geoffrey Howe]

There is a growing feeling that Boris has used up all his political capital with backbenchers over lockdown.  One MP has pretty much said if lockdown is extended again he will send Brady a letter.  I *think* Brady has one or two letters already.  Basically Boris cannot afford to let the new date slip.

Good, Parliament needs to assert itself. There is a contingent of the public that probably supports a forever-lockdown; but after a point most will take it into their own hands. If I were in Chesham and Amersham I might protest vote for an anti-lockdown outfit because my patience is finished.

Given the increasingly loud whisperings about how it is going there, your "protest" vote could arguably be better given to the LibDems instead (and they have made a few lockdown sceptic noises recently)

Does that depend on which street I live on or what they suspect my views might already be?
In truth I would vote Tory because I have come very much to dislike the Lib Dems; plus the planning laws seem fairly sensible and the LDs are opposing them from an irritating NIMBY perspective (Dear friend...).
In Batley and Spen I might vote Labour simply from a Labour factional perspective (I don't want the Left to gain in power).

[CumbrianLefty]

There is a growing feeling that Boris has used up all his political capital with backbenchers over lockdown.  One MP has pretty much said if lockdown is extended again he will send Brady a letter.  I *think* Brady has one or two letters already.  Basically Boris cannot afford to let the new date slip.

Good, Parliament needs to assert itself. There is a contingent of the public that probably supports a forever-lockdown; but after a point most will take it into their own hands. If I were in Chesham and Amersham I might protest vote for an anti-lockdown outfit because my patience is finished.

Given the increasingly loud whisperings about how it is going there, your "protest" vote could arguably be better given to the LibDems instead (and they have made a few lockdown sceptic noises recently)

Does that depend on which street I live on or what they suspect my views might already be?

Heh, hard to argue with that for sure

(the above post by me was in absolutely no way an actual endorsement of the LibDems)

[Blair]

A pretty tone deaf performance by Ian Blair (no relation) on R4 re Met Corruption.

After yesterday’s report on Daniel Morgan it’s baffling no-one has been sacked.

[Conservatopia]

I think all parties can unite on this: Cressida Dick has got to go.

[Cassius]

It does seems as though the there's only one thing Cressida Dick isn’t interested in and that’s bent coppers. Son.

[Geoffrey Howe]

According to Boris, Matt Hancock is "totally f****** useless." Quelle surprise
PMQs was good today.

[CumbrianLefty]

When we have a government whose overall modus vivendi appears to be "nobody should be sacked or have to resign for literally anything whatsoever" it maybe isn't that surprising that other institutions follow that rather dubious lead.

[afleitch]

Pride this month is brutal. Nearly every single tweet in support from the NHS to mental health is full of anti-trans comments.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MindCharity/status/1405296537681412099