MA-SEN Megathread: Senator Markey wins

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Kennedy's loss, as noted above, means he is the first member of that family to ever lose an election in Massachusetts. And another thing-once his House term ends on January 3, 2021, it will be the first time in 74 years that no direct descendant of Joseph Kennedy Sr. will hold elected office anywhere in the United States. This doesn't count Amy Kennedy, Van Drew's opponent in New Jersey, who married into the family. Hopefully, the Kennedy dynasty will now find its way into the history books, like the Roosevelts and Tafts have.

We have George P Bush carrying on the terrible legacy of the Bushes. John Donley Adams tried running for office in 2017, but lost.

One of the Adams family tried to get into politics?

Honestly I wouldn't mind that.

The Adamses actually had a ton of staying power back in the day. Charles Francis Adams was US Minister to the UK during the Civil War, his grandson Charles Francis Adams III was Hoover's Secretary of the Navy, and Thomas Boylston Adams ran in the Democratic US Senate primary in Massachusetts in 1966 as an anti-Vietnam War candidate. So John Adams and his direct descendants participated in American politics for almost two hundred years. The Kennedys need to step up their game!

As to the thread topic, I'm obviously relieved that Markey won (and by a fairly convincing margin, too!), but I don't necessarily love that he cleaned up in MetroWest and behind the Tofu Curtain while losing Springfield, New Bedford, Fall River, Lowell, Lawrence, etc.

The general pattern seems to be that Markey won the wealthier, college-educated, upper class and middle class areas, while Kennedy dominated the poorer, minority heavy, working class and lower class areas. Why did this result happen? Does it provide evidence that upper-class Democratic voters are more "woke" and more deeply invested in progressive ideas, while working-class Democratic voters are less "woke" and more moderate? Or something else entirely? Given Markey's working class origins and Kennedy's status as the member of one of this country's most historically important political dynasties, it does seem to be an ironic result.

Kennedy stitched up a lot of union endorsements, using pragmatism arguments for the most part--see also the heavy union support for Biden in the presidential primaries. Downscale voters are also of course generally more anti-incumbent.

If you look at the 2013 Senate primary, Markey and Lynch split these types of communities between them (of the ones I listed, Markey won Springfield, New Bedford, and Lawrence while Lynch won Fall River and Lowell). So they're not ideologically hostile to Markey as such, but they're not especially ideologically friendly to him either.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Kennedy's loss, as noted above, means he is the first member of that family to ever lose an election in Massachusetts. And another thing-once his House term ends on January 3, 2021, it will be the first time in 74 years that no direct descendant of Joseph Kennedy Sr. will hold elected office anywhere in the United States. This doesn't count Amy Kennedy, Van Drew's opponent in New Jersey, who married into the family. Hopefully, the Kennedy dynasty will now find its way into the history books, like the Roosevelts and Tafts have.

We have George P Bush carrying on the terrible legacy of the Bushes. John Donley Adams tried running for office in 2017, but lost.

One of the Adams family tried to get into politics?

Honestly I wouldn't mind that.

The Adamses actually had a ton of staying power back in the day. Charles Francis Adams was US Minister to the UK during the Civil War, his grandson Charles Francis Adams III was Hoover's Secretary of the Navy, and Thomas Boylston Adams ran in the Democratic US Senate primary in Massachusetts in 1966 as an anti-Vietnam War candidate. So John Adams and his direct descendants participated in American politics for almost two hundred years. The Kennedys need to step up their game!

As to the thread topic, I'm obviously relieved that Markey won (and by a fairly convincing margin, too!), but I don't necessarily love that he cleaned up in MetroWest and behind the Tofu Curtain while losing Springfield, New Bedford, Fall River, Lowell, Lawrence, etc.

The general pattern seems to be that Markey won the wealthier, college-educated, upper class and middle class areas, while Kennedy dominated the poorer, minority heavy, working class and lower class areas. Why did this result happen? Does it provide evidence that upper-class Democratic voters are more "woke" and more deeply invested in progressive ideas, while working-class Democratic voters are less "woke" and more moderate? Or something else entirely? Given Markey's working class origins and Kennedy's status as the member of one of this country's most historically important political dynasties, it does seem to be an ironic result.

Kennedys have always done good with blue collar AA and Latinos due to the fact they have helped the poor and needy. That's why AOC can kiss any Prez aspirations, if there was any goodbye, the fact as a Latina she helped Markey, whom is despised by the AA community. She took Joe Kennedy's Prez aspirations down with her; consequently, Kamala Harris is Biden's heir apparent to the Prez either in 2024 or 2028

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Good riddance, Kennedy solely campaigned on his name and was no good alternative to Markey.

[Figueira]

Kennedy did better in low-income areas generally; however once you correct for this he did very poorly in Western Massachusetts outside of Hampden County. Probably the Kennedy name just not meaning as much out here.

[KaiserDave]

Kennedy did better in low-income areas generally; however once you correct for this he did very poorly in Western Massachusetts outside of Hampden County. Probably the Kennedy name just not meaning as much out here.

Based Berkshires!

I swear that hotel randomly on the top of Mt Greylock is both spooky and #populist

[lfromnj]

Kennedy's loss, as noted above, means he is the first member of that family to ever lose an election in Massachusetts. And another thing-once his House term ends on January 3, 2021, it will be the first time in 74 years that no direct descendant of Joseph Kennedy Sr. will hold elected office anywhere in the United States. This doesn't count Amy Kennedy, Van Drew's opponent in New Jersey, who married into the family. Hopefully, the Kennedy dynasty will now find its way into the history books, like the Roosevelts and Tafts have.

I think there were a few weeks in the beginning of 2013 without a Kennedy but JKIII was representative elect then.

[Gracile]

Kennedy's loss, as noted above, means he is the first member of that family to ever lose an election in Massachusetts. And another thing-once his House term ends on January 3, 2021, it will be the first time in 74 years that no direct descendant of Joseph Kennedy Sr. will hold elected office anywhere in the United States. This doesn't count Amy Kennedy, Van Drew's opponent in New Jersey, who married into the family. Hopefully, the Kennedy dynasty will now find its way into the history books, like the Roosevelts and Tafts have.

I think there were a few weeks in the beginning of 2013 without a Kennedy but JKIII was representative elect then.

Yes, the 112th Congress didn't have any Kennedys (Patrick Kennedy retired from his seat in Rhode Island in 2010 and Joe Kennedy III won election to Barney Frank's open seat in 2012).

[Brittain33]

Why do so many pretend that many Markey supporters werent/aren't also Biden supporters?

Hi there!

Me and my friends voted Markey and mostly hated Bernie. I’m embarrassed to see the rose Twitter bullying and football spiking online from Markey’s young fans.

[brucejoel99]

Why do so many pretend that many Markey supporters werent/aren't also Biden supporters?

Hi there!

Me and my friends voted Markey and mostly hated Bernie. I’m embarrassed to see the rose Twitter bullying and football spiking online from Markey’s young fans.

Also a staunch Biden supporter who went on to staunchly support Markey & be disgusted by all of the Rose Twitter bullying (particularly the assassination 'jokes').

[Tiger08]

As to the thread topic, I'm obviously relieved that Markey won (and by a fairly convincing margin, too!), but I don't necessarily love that he cleaned up in MetroWest and behind the Tofu Curtain while losing Springfield, New Bedford, Fall River, Lowell, Lawrence, etc.

The general pattern seems to be that Markey won the wealthier, college-educated, upper class and middle class areas, while Kennedy dominated the poorer, minority heavy, working class and lower class areas. Why did this result happen? Does it provide evidence that upper-class Democratic voters are more "woke" and more deeply invested in progressive ideas, while working-class Democratic voters are less "woke" and more moderate? Or something else entirely? Given Markey's working class origins and Kennedy's status as the member of one of this country's most historically important political dynasties, it does seem to be an ironic result.

Kennedy stitched up a lot of union endorsements, using pragmatism arguments for the most part--see also the heavy union support for Biden in the presidential primaries. Downscale voters are also of course generally more anti-incumbent.

If you look at the 2013 Senate primary, Markey and Lynch split these types of communities between them (of the ones I listed, Markey won Springfield, New Bedford, and Lawrence while Lynch won Fall River and Lowell). So they're not ideologically hostile to Markey as such, but they're not especially ideologically friendly to him either.

This conversation reminds me.... I was thinking about the internal tensions within the Democratic Party between the "Old"/moderate wing of Democratic Party (WWC and older nonwhite voters) to the "New"/Progressive wing of Democratic Party (college educated white voters + younger voters of all races). That dichotomy doesn't totally represent what I'm about to mention, but is the Markey vs Kennedy primary a proxy for the wing of Democrats that near-perfectly fit the current left-of-center zeitgeist (I'm talking about the zeitgeist of the left-of-center side of the spectrum, not America as a whole) versus those who don't? I don't know if that makes sense, but the zeitgeist thing I'm mentioning has an "it" factor to it. Maybe "the "#Resist" wing versus the non-"Resist"wing is a good way to put it. I know Wasserman's obsession with "Whole Foods" voters can be kind of cringey at times, but it's a useful cultural signifier.

[President Johnson]

Why do so many pretend that many Markey supporters werent/aren't also Biden supporters?

Hi there!

Me and my friends voted Markey and mostly hated Bernie. I’m embarrassed to see the rose Twitter bullying and football spiking online from Markey’s young fans.

Agree. I'm the biggest Biden hack, but would have voted for Markey, who is a sane progressive. But I don't hate Bernie at all.

[Xing]

Why do so many pretend that many Markey supporters werent/aren't also Biden supporters?

There were definitely plenty of Biden/Markey voters, as well as some Sanders or Warren/Kennedy voters. That's what makes the rehashing of the 2016/2020 primaries even less relevant. It's simply a small minority (Rose Twitter and those with an obsessive hatred of anything within four degrees of Bernie Sanders) who always want to draw lines in the sand. I'm well aware that Kennedy wouldn't have voted very differently from Markey at all had he won. Other factors made me support Markey.

[Intell]

Why do so many pretend that many Markey supporters werent/aren't also Biden supporters?

There were definitely plenty of Biden/Markey voters, as well as some Sanders or Warren/Kennedy voters. That's what makes the rehashing of the 2016/2020 primaries even less relevant. It's simply a small minority (Rose Twitter and those with an obsessive hatred of anything within four degrees of Bernie Sanders) who always want to draw lines in the sand. I'm well aware that Kennedy wouldn't have voted very differently from Markey at all had he won. Other factors made me support Markey.

Actually Warren/Kennedy voters don’t seem likely based on voting behaviour- there are however a lot of Biden/Markey voters and some Sanders/Kennedy voters.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

It’s funny watching people who complain about the left never compromising getting upset over the left compromising and supporting someone with a mixed record because he supported their key policies.

Yup. Markey is certainly no amazing progressive, but he's a lot better than Joe Kennedy. Pelosi doesn't like the Green New Deal, and that might be why she wanted Markey gone.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Kennedy did better in low-income areas generally; however once you correct for this he did very poorly in Western Massachusetts outside of Hampden County. Probably the Kennedy name just not meaning as much out here.

Based Berkshires!

I swear that hotel randomly on the top of Mt Greylock is both spooky and #populist

The summit of Greylock is in Adams, though, which Kennedy carried. The North Berkshires are great, but (? or "because") they don't have the hip-'n'-groovy Green Dream vibe of the area around Stockbridge and Great Barrington.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Why do so many pretend that many Markey supporters werent/aren't also Biden supporters?

Hi there!

Me and my friends voted Markey and mostly hated Bernie. I’m embarrassed to see the rose Twitter bullying and football spiking online from Markey’s young fans.

Agree. I'm the biggest Biden hack, but would have voted for Markey, who is a sane progressive. But I don't hate Bernie at all.

AOC, partisanship helped Markey, she is a Latina, and Latinos and AA are usually Kennedy voters.  If she should run for Prez, she has no future, due to the fact AA wont forgive her for endorsing Markey over Kennedy as she took Kennedy's Prez aspoirations down with hers.  Kamala Harris is the heir apparent win or lose for Biden in 2024 or 2028

[MarkD]

I don't know whether anybody has already pointed this out, but the total number of votes of nearly 1.4 million has surely broken the previous record by hundreds of thousands. I've looked on the Massachusetts Sec. of State's website at past Democratic primaries for the U.S. Senate, and there's never been this high of a voter turnout before.

[Calthrina950]

Kennedy's loss, as noted above, means he is the first member of that family to ever lose an election in Massachusetts. And another thing-once his House term ends on January 3, 2021, it will be the first time in 74 years that no direct descendant of Joseph Kennedy Sr. will hold elected office anywhere in the United States. This doesn't count Amy Kennedy, Van Drew's opponent in New Jersey, who married into the family. Hopefully, the Kennedy dynasty will now find its way into the history books, like the Roosevelts and Tafts have.

I think there were a few weeks in the beginning of 2013 without a Kennedy but JKIII was representative elect then.

I've noted that elsewhere, that there was a congressional gap between 2011-2013. The gap you're referring to is probably the few days or weeks that passed from the time Bobby Schriver's tenure on the Santa Monica City Council ended and JPK III's House tenure commenced.

[Figueira]

Kennedy did better in low-income areas generally; however once you correct for this he did very poorly in Western Massachusetts outside of Hampden County. Probably the Kennedy name just not meaning as much out here.

Based Berkshires!

I swear that hotel randomly on the top of Mt Greylock is both spooky and #populist

The summit of Greylock is in Adams, though, which Kennedy carried. The North Berkshires are great, but (? or "because") they don't have the hip-'n'-groovy Green Dream vibe of the area around Stockbridge and Great Barrington.

I'd much rather live in North Adams than Great Barrington, to be honest.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

The Ds keep emailing me asking for donations and to phone bank, this closes my book on the Democratic party as far as donations is concerned, the way they treated Joe Kennedy, I will never send a cent or phone bank for them, unless I come into a lot of money, like being a Lawyer, since I am in Law School. Joe Kennedy was my reason for my large donation to the Dem party this year and I donated the most in 2012 as well.

[Calthrina950]

Kennedy's loss last night also means that three of America's political dynasties have been rejected within the last four years. In 2016, the Bushes and the Clintons were both defeated by Donald Trump: Jeb lost to him in the Republican primaries, and Hillary lost to him in the general election. And this year, in addition to Kennedy, one of the Bushes (I believe it was a son of Marvin Bush) lost a congressional primary in Texas. So this race provides further confirmation of my belief that American voters are tiring of political dynasties.

[brucejoel99]

Kennedy's loss last night also means that three of America's political dynasties have been rejected within the last four years. In 2016, the Bushes and the Clintons were both defeated by Donald Trump: Jeb lost to him in the Republican primaries, and Hillary lost to him in the general election. And this year, in addition to Kennedy, one of the Bushes (I believe it was a son of Marvin Bush) lost a congressional primary in Texas. So this race provides further confirmation of my belief that American voters are tiring of political dynasties.

Tbf, the Kennedys - in contrast to the Bushes & Clintons - haven't been totally rejected (yet?): Amy Kennedy is about to go up against JVD in NJ, & Caroline's son will definitely run for something once he's done with law school

[Illiniwek]

Even though I'm a big Kennedy family guy, I really didn't understand why Kennedy made this unnecessary push to oust a solid incumbent. He's so young he could have risen in the ranks in the House before taking the next step with no opposition. Instead now he's just a guy who will be out of office. What's next? Governor against another popular incumbent in what probably will be a Republican year? Waiting for the next vacancy in the Senate? Maybe he gets an administration position, but I doubt it will be a really sexy one. He really must have just been operating to position himself for a presidential run in 2024 or 2028. Should have been patient man...

[brucejoel99]

Even though I'm a big Kennedy family guy, I really didn't understand why Kennedy made this unnecessary push to oust a solid incumbent. He's so young he could have risen in the ranks in the House before taking the next step with no opposition. Instead now he's just a guy who will be out of office. What's next? Governor against another popular incumbent in what probably will be a Republican year? Waiting for the next vacancy in the Senate? Maybe he gets an administration position, but I doubt it will be a really sexy one. He really must have just been operating to position himself for a presidential run in 2024 or 2028. Should have been patient man...

Because he's scared of Ayanna Pressley.

[Calthrina950]

Kennedy's loss last night also means that three of America's political dynasties have been rejected within the last four years. In 2016, the Bushes and the Clintons were both defeated by Donald Trump: Jeb lost to him in the Republican primaries, and Hillary lost to him in the general election. And this year, in addition to Kennedy, one of the Bushes (I believe it was a son of Marvin Bush) lost a congressional primary in Texas. So this race provides further confirmation of my belief that American voters are tiring of political dynasties.

Tbf, the Kennedys - in contrast to the Bushes & Clintons - haven't been totally rejected (yet?): Amy Kennedy is about to go up against JVD in NJ, & Caroline's son will definitely run for something once he's done with law school

`

True. And even the Bushes aren't completely out of elected office: George P. Bush is the Texas Land Commissioner, as has been noted on here previously, and he might run for higher office. But I mean that the three families have all suffered electoral setbacks in the last four years, and their star has clearly diminished. Amy Kennedy (who I just found out is Patrick Kennedy's wife), is in a competitive race with Van Drew; if she loses, that will close off one avenue. That will then leave Caroline Kennedy's son.