Canada General Discussion (2019-)

[Upper Canada Tory]

Apparently Canada's population hit 41 million yesterday just 9 months after reaching 40 million.

I agree with those who say that this and not the carbon tax are why the Liberals will lose in 2025. It's not even just that Canada can not absorb this number of people in this period of time, but that for a long time the Liberals showed no interest or even understanding of the need to coordinate the population increase with the municipalities and the provinces. This is just basic incompetence.

I can't stand Poilievre or the Conservatives, but I can certainly appreciate the desire to fire a government that demonstrates basic incompetence.

Not only that, but what bothers me is that they destroyed Canada's previously good immigration system. Most of Canada's immigrants used to be high skilled and came through the points system and that was one of the most successful immigration systems in the world - that was the policy for 50 years (with minor adjustments). There was no need to allow the growth of the temporary resident population and lower the standard for permanent residency to the extent that the Liberals did. They could have kept the immigration system the same as it was in 2015 and it wouldn't be an election issue for them, because the old immigration system was effective and reasonably popular. Heck, they probably could have kept 2019 immigration levels without too much backlash. But what they've done in the last 2 to 3 years is completely insane.

I'm not all that familiar with this because I know the provinces have been given a much greater say on immigration so I don't know if the skilled immigrant program has really been done away with or if its just been transferred to the provinces.

The provinces have been permitted to take advantage of the federal government's permissive policies, but it is the federal government implementing those policies. The federal government lowered the CRS score necessary to earn PR, the federal government issued stuent visas and TFW visas in large numbers, while the provinces are just taking advantage of it either to fund universities or exploit cheap labour.

[Upper Canada Tory]

The way federal-provincial devolution works in immigration in Canada is like this;

In the provincial nominee program, applicants apply via the Express Entry program but for a province's respective provincial nominee program. Provinces can nominate candidates from the Express Entry program (prospective permanent residents are selected from draws with cutoff scores), but the federal government decides which CRS score is needed to get PR and whether anyone gets a visa for PR in the first place. So provinces have some sway but the federal government has the final say.

In LMIA, businesses register to be licensed by the provincial government to recruit temporary foreign workers - but they also need to apply with the federal government to get a visa to hire a TFW to bring them to Canada. The federal government determines whether or not the temporary worker is needed in the first place. So in other words, provinces have sway, but the feds always have the final approval.

In the international students program, universities, which are provincial jurisdiction, decide which applicants/prospective international students are accepted to study at colleges/universities. Then prospective international students need to show a letter of acceptance to the feds to get a study permit. Not to mention, the feds get to decide whether or not students can work off campus and for how long.

So provinces have some sway, which is why they can take advantage of it, but the feds always have the final say. The provinces are currently taking advantage of federal government policies.

[Flyersfan232]

Again, who are the Liberals going to turn to? No one who could actually reverse the course for them is going to want to captain the sinking ship.

Oh yeah, it would be a total Hail Mary. Carney just took a job as an economic advisor for Starmer (not that I think Carney would be a good leader anyway). Freeland feels like a disaster in the making, she is an AWFUL communicator on the hustings. And there go the two touted successors.

Honestly? Sean Fraser. Why not. Good communicator, pretty good looking guy, awful record as immigration minister but has made some announcements as housing minister that he could actually campaign on. I could think of worse.

Fraser is in a swing seat thought he might not even be in commons after the next election.

As things stand, most Liberal MPs won't be in the commons after the next election. So at this point I'm not sure what difference it makes.

Why not Andrew fuery? I think he might actually be the most popular liberal nationality

[Estrella]

Why not Andrew fuery? I think he might actually be the most popular liberal nationality

*Most popular Liberal in his jurisdiction. By that metric, the most popular politician in Canada is a random mayor in like Gaspésie or Yukon who has a 100% approval rating because he invited the whole village for a barbecue once.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Again, who are the Liberals going to turn to? No one who could actually reverse the course for them is going to want to captain the sinking ship.

Oh yeah, it would be a total Hail Mary. Carney just took a job as an economic advisor for Starmer (not that I think Carney would be a good leader anyway). Freeland feels like a disaster in the making, she is an AWFUL communicator on the hustings. And there go the two touted successors.

Honestly? Sean Fraser. Why not. Good communicator, pretty good looking guy, awful record as immigration minister but has made some announcements as housing minister that he could actually campaign on. I could think of worse.

Fraser is in a swing seat thought he might not even be in commons after the next election.

As things stand, most Liberal MPs won't be in the commons after the next election. So at this point I'm not sure what difference it makes.

Why not Andrew fuery? I think he might actually be the most popular liberal nationality

He's popular in NL, but far from a household name in the rest of the country.

He's in the news chiefly because he came out against one of the Liberals' flagship policies, and is trying to distance himself from the Liberal brand, up to and including minimizing the use of red and basically hiding the word 'Liberal' in NL Liberal campaign material. Like, the only mention of this being a Liberal candidate is written in the same script that pharmaceutical companies write "this drug will have devastating side effects far worse than the illness it may or may not treat". And on policy, while Poilievre has managed to effectively weaponize the carbon tax against the Liberals, most partisan Liberals are very defensive of the policy and see Furey's anti-carbon tax moves as basically caving in to Conservative pressure

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

At the risk of turning this to a "Canada immigration policy" thread (although honestly I agree that this is the biggest issue with the Trudeau government, much more so than the carbon tax, but apparently opposing the carbon tax sells better for Poilievre) - PQ leader Paul St-Pierre Plamondon gives a speech in English articulating perfectly what so many of us have been criticizing about Liberal immigration policy.

https://twitter.com/ContrarianTribe/status/1773702167980888453

Something very weird about a left-wing Quebec separatist who hopes to govern a province that actually has some control over immigration, making very obvious points about federal immigration policy, that even the federal Conservative leader is too scared to touch. It makes perfect sense and no sense at all.

[Upper Canada Tory]

At the risk of turning this to a "Canada immigration policy" thread (although honestly I agree that this is the biggest issue with the Trudeau government, much more so than the carbon tax, but apparently opposing the carbon tax sells better for Poilievre) - PQ leader Paul St-Pierre Plamondon gives a speech in English articulating perfectly what so many of us have been criticizing about Liberal immigration policy.

https://twitter.com/ContrarianTribe/status/1773702167980888453
Something very weird about a left-wing Quebec separatist who hopes to govern a province that actually has some control over immigration, making very obvious points about federal immigration policy, that even the federal Conservative leader is too scared to touch. It makes perfect sense and no sense at all.

What he's saying is not that different from what Poilievre is saying. Poilievre has also criticized the federal government for the growth in temporary and permanent immigration, is proposing to tie immigration levels to housing supply growth and wants to fix the imbalance between supply and demand.

The only difference is that the Quebec separatist is citing the Century Initiative as the federal government's motivation for the immigration failure, however I'm not sure that is really what's motivating them or if the feds are really even committed to the 'Century Initiative' nonsense, and in general, it's impossible to read politicians' minds and very hard to figure out their intentions.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

At the risk of turning this to a "Canada immigration policy" thread (although honestly I agree that this is the biggest issue with the Trudeau government, much more so than the carbon tax, but apparently opposing the carbon tax sells better for Poilievre) - PQ leader Paul St-Pierre Plamondon gives a speech in English articulating perfectly what so many of us have been criticizing about Liberal immigration policy.

https://twitter.com/ContrarianTribe/status/1773702167980888453
Something very weird about a left-wing Quebec separatist who hopes to govern a province that actually has some control over immigration, making very obvious points about federal immigration policy, that even the federal Conservative leader is too scared to touch. It makes perfect sense and no sense at all.

What he's saying is not that different from what Poilievre is saying. Poilievre has also criticized the federal government for the growth in temporary and permanent immigration, is proposing to tie immigration levels to housing supply growth and wants to fix the imbalance between supply and demand.

The only difference is that the Quebec separatist is citing the Century Initiative as the federal government's motivation for the immigration failure, however I'm not sure that is really what's motivating them, and in general, it's very hard to read politicians' minds and figure out their intentions.

I know, I just don't understand why Poilievre doesn't make this a bigger part of the pitch. Maybe I'm just in a bubble but I feel like this kind of soft immigration-skeptical politics would go over very well right now. I can understand why Conservatives are timid about touching immigration since the Niqab/barbaric practices episode from 2015, but immigration in 2024 is very easy to talk about in purely pocketbook terms without going full on nativist.

On the Century Initiative thing, you're right, I don't think it's the feds' main motivation. But it's still very emblematic of the Liberals' approach to immigration which has basically made increasing the population at all costs the primary driving motivator, at the expense of virtually everything else, which is basically what the Century Initiative people advocate. There's literally zero reason for why Canada NEEDS to increase its population beyond maintaining a healthy working-age population, for which we do not need to reach even close to 100M.

Besides, if the Century Initiative is about reaching 100M by 2100, it's basically a conservative policy. Our population grew 1M in the last 9 months. At that rate, we're at 100M by 2068!

[Upper Canada Tory]

At the risk of turning this to a "Canada immigration policy" thread (although honestly I agree that this is the biggest issue with the Trudeau government, much more so than the carbon tax, but apparently opposing the carbon tax sells better for Poilievre) - PQ leader Paul St-Pierre Plamondon gives a speech in English articulating perfectly what so many of us have been criticizing about Liberal immigration policy.

https://twitter.com/ContrarianTribe/status/1773702167980888453
Something very weird about a left-wing Quebec separatist who hopes to govern a province that actually has some control over immigration, making very obvious points about federal immigration policy, that even the federal Conservative leader is too scared to touch. It makes perfect sense and no sense at all.

What he's saying is not that different from what Poilievre is saying. Poilievre has also criticized the federal government for the growth in temporary and permanent immigration, is proposing to tie immigration levels to housing supply growth and wants to fix the imbalance between supply and demand.

The only difference is that the Quebec separatist is citing the Century Initiative as the federal government's motivation for the immigration failure, however I'm not sure that is really what's motivating them, and in general, it's very hard to read politicians' minds and figure out their intentions.

I know, I just don't understand why Poilievre doesn't make this a bigger part of the pitch. Maybe I'm just in a bubble but I feel like this kind of soft immigration-skeptical politics would go over very well right now. I can understand why Conservatives are timid about touching immigration since the Niqab/barbaric practices episode from 2015, but immigration in 2024 is very easy to talk about in purely pocketbook terms without going full on nativist.

On the Century Initiative thing, you're right, I don't think it's the feds' main motivation. But it's still very emblematic of the Liberals' approach to immigration which has basically made increasing the population at all costs the primary driving motivator, at the expense of virtually everything else, which is basically what the Century Initiative people advocate. There's literally zero reason for why Canada NEEDS to increase its population beyond maintaining a healthy working-age population, for which we do not need to reach even close to 100M.

Besides, if the Century Initiative is about reaching 100M by 2100, it's basically a conservative policy. Our population grew 1M in the last 9 months. At that rate, we're at 100M by 2068!

The effect of immigration on housing and the shortage of infrastructure should be part of the pitch but it shouldn't be all of it.

IMO, Poilievre and other conservative politicians should stop limiting their immigration-related arguments to the housing shortage and also bring up the economic impacts of immigration to Canada, namely, talking about the successes of the old-school Harper era (and pre-Harper all the way to Pearson) immigration system and contrasting it to Trudeau's failed policy. The housing shortage is one part of the problem with the immigration crisis, a big one, but it's not the only problem. Even if we had enough housing for all these people the current immigration policy would still be a failure.

Poilievre should point out that in the past, Canada's immigration system selected high-skilled workers that quickly integrated economically and culturally and that the growth in temporary and permanent residents due to reduced standards in the last few years has contributed to our low productivity/wages and has resulted in a dependence on cheap labour. Not to mention all the scams and fraud associated with the current system.

The exclusive focus on the housing crisis essentially legitimizes Trudeau's immigration policy to some degree - it makes the implicit argument that, if we did have enough housing, what he's done to our immigration system would be ok. (Which it obviously wouldn't be)

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

At the risk of turning this to a "Canada immigration policy" thread (although honestly I agree that this is the biggest issue with the Trudeau government, much more so than the carbon tax, but apparently opposing the carbon tax sells better for Poilievre) - PQ leader Paul St-Pierre Plamondon gives a speech in English articulating perfectly what so many of us have been criticizing about Liberal immigration policy.

https://twitter.com/ContrarianTribe/status/1773702167980888453
Something very weird about a left-wing Quebec separatist who hopes to govern a province that actually has some control over immigration, making very obvious points about federal immigration policy, that even the federal Conservative leader is too scared to touch. It makes perfect sense and no sense at all.

What he's saying is not that different from what Poilievre is saying. Poilievre has also criticized the federal government for the growth in temporary and permanent immigration, is proposing to tie immigration levels to housing supply growth and wants to fix the imbalance between supply and demand.

The only difference is that the Quebec separatist is citing the Century Initiative as the federal government's motivation for the immigration failure, however I'm not sure that is really what's motivating them, and in general, it's very hard to read politicians' minds and figure out their intentions.

I know, I just don't understand why Poilievre doesn't make this a bigger part of the pitch. Maybe I'm just in a bubble but I feel like this kind of soft immigration-skeptical politics would go over very well right now. I can understand why Conservatives are timid about touching immigration since the Niqab/barbaric practices episode from 2015, but immigration in 2024 is very easy to talk about in purely pocketbook terms without going full on nativist.

On the Century Initiative thing, you're right, I don't think it's the feds' main motivation. But it's still very emblematic of the Liberals' approach to immigration which has basically made increasing the population at all costs the primary driving motivator, at the expense of virtually everything else, which is basically what the Century Initiative people advocate. There's literally zero reason for why Canada NEEDS to increase its population beyond maintaining a healthy working-age population, for which we do not need to reach even close to 100M.

Besides, if the Century Initiative is about reaching 100M by 2100, it's basically a conservative policy. Our population grew 1M in the last 9 months. At that rate, we're at 100M by 2068!

Poilievre obviously constantly mentions it indirectly. Maybe he's as surprised as I was that Canada's population was still increasing so quickly.

[Upper Canada Tory]

At the risk of turning this to a "Canada immigration policy" thread (although honestly I agree that this is the biggest issue with the Trudeau government, much more so than the carbon tax, but apparently opposing the carbon tax sells better for Poilievre) - PQ leader Paul St-Pierre Plamondon gives a speech in English articulating perfectly what so many of us have been criticizing about Liberal immigration policy.

https://twitter.com/ContrarianTribe/status/1773702167980888453
Something very weird about a left-wing Quebec separatist who hopes to govern a province that actually has some control over immigration, making very obvious points about federal immigration policy, that even the federal Conservative leader is too scared to touch. It makes perfect sense and no sense at all.

What he's saying is not that different from what Poilievre is saying. Poilievre has also criticized the federal government for the growth in temporary and permanent immigration, is proposing to tie immigration levels to housing supply growth and wants to fix the imbalance between supply and demand.

The only difference is that the Quebec separatist is citing the Century Initiative as the federal government's motivation for the immigration failure, however I'm not sure that is really what's motivating them, and in general, it's very hard to read politicians' minds and figure out their intentions.

I know, I just don't understand why Poilievre doesn't make this a bigger part of the pitch. Maybe I'm just in a bubble but I feel like this kind of soft immigration-skeptical politics would go over very well right now. I can understand why Conservatives are timid about touching immigration since the Niqab/barbaric practices episode from 2015, but immigration in 2024 is very easy to talk about in purely pocketbook terms without going full on nativist.

On the Century Initiative thing, you're right, I don't think it's the feds' main motivation. But it's still very emblematic of the Liberals' approach to immigration which has basically made increasing the population at all costs the primary driving motivator, at the expense of virtually everything else, which is basically what the Century Initiative people advocate. There's literally zero reason for why Canada NEEDS to increase its population beyond maintaining a healthy working-age population, for which we do not need to reach even close to 100M.

Besides, if the Century Initiative is about reaching 100M by 2100, it's basically a conservative policy. Our population grew 1M in the last 9 months. At that rate, we're at 100M by 2068!

Poilievre obviously constantly mentions it indirectly. Maybe he's as surprised as I was that Canada's population was still increasing so quickly.

Tbh maybe the key to making Canadians demand change to our immigration policy is showing them our population growth numbers. I'm sure many are still unaware that our population is growing so quickly 

[lfromnj]

https://globalnews.ca/news/10397176/trudeau-temporary-immigration-canada/
Seems like Trudeau actually is backtracking. There actually could be a scenario where this entire international surge was more incompetence rather than malice.

[Poirot]

https://globalnews.ca/news/10397176/trudeau-temporary-immigration-canada/
Seems like Trudeau actually is backtracking. There actually could be a scenario where this entire international surge was more incompetence rather than malice.

“To give an example, in 2017, two per cent of Canada’s population was made up of temporary immigrants. Now we’re at 7.5 per cent of our population comprised of temporary immigrants. That’s something we need to get back under control.”

I can't believe the federal government is that incompetent.
Maybe they listened to businesses having difficulties to find employees due to manpower shortage rather than problems associated with such an influx of people.

[MaxQue]

https://globalnews.ca/news/10397176/trudeau-temporary-immigration-canada/
Seems like Trudeau actually is backtracking. There actually could be a scenario where this entire international surge was more incompetence rather than malice.

“To give an example, in 2017, two per cent of Canada’s population was made up of temporary immigrants. Now we’re at 7.5 per cent of our population comprised of temporary immigrants. That’s something we need to get back under control.”

I can't believe the federal government is that incompetent.
Maybe they listened to businesses having difficulties to find employees due to manpower shortage rather than problems associated with such an influx of people.

Companies need to foreign workers, as they cannot rely on the feckless boomers.

[lfromnj]

https://globalnews.ca/news/10397176/trudeau-temporary-immigration-canada/
Seems like Trudeau actually is backtracking. There actually could be a scenario where this entire international surge was more incompetence rather than malice.

“To give an example, in 2017, two per cent of Canada’s population was made up of temporary immigrants. Now we’re at 7.5 per cent of our population comprised of temporary immigrants. That’s something we need to get back under control.”

I can't believe the federal government is that incompetent.
Maybe they listened to businesses having difficulties to find employees due to manpower shortage rather than problems associated with such an influx of people.

No I agree most of what happened was intended but I think the international situation exploded due to more of a loophole like situation.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

https://globalnews.ca/news/10397176/trudeau-temporary-immigration-canada/
Seems like Trudeau actually is backtracking. There actually could be a scenario where this entire international surge was more incompetence rather than malice.

It's a weird one and I'm curious to see how it plays out. On the one hand, I can't help but give him credit for actually listening to what I believe is very valid criticism of the Liberal immigration policy. On the other hand, it's a bit of a "arsonist turns firefighter" situation. It's not even partisan hyperbole to say that the Liberal cabinet and by extension Trudeau created this particular problem in the first place, it's just objectively true.

Now from a partisan perspective, this is exactly why I wished Pierre pushed a stronger message on this issue, and I'm annoyed that he didn't. Maybe not even a stronger message, I think the current conservative line of vaguely criticizing high immigration is fine - I just wish he did it more often. We don't know how the public will react to this but if the Liberals can spin this into good press (and like I said I think the good press would be at least somewhat justified), I consider that the Conservatives dropping the ball on an easy win. Consider the carbon tax where Trudeau is completely backed into a corner - either stick up for an unpopular policy that the opposition can hammer him on, or cave to Conservative pressure and look even weaker. There's simply no winning for him on that issue barring a significant and unforseen change in public opinion. But on immigration, this backtracking won't really be seen as a sign of weakness, because the opposition really weren't talking about it much.

[Continential]

https://globalnews.ca/news/10397176/trudeau-temporary-immigration-canada/
Seems like Trudeau actually is backtracking. There actually could be a scenario where this entire international surge was more incompetence rather than malice.

“To give an example, in 2017, two per cent of Canada’s population was made up of temporary immigrants. Now we’re at 7.5 per cent of our population comprised of temporary immigrants. That’s something we need to get back under control.”

I can't believe the federal government is that incompetent.
Maybe they listened to businesses having difficulties to find employees due to manpower shortage rather than problems associated with such an influx of people.

Companies need to foreign workers, as they cannot rely on the feckless boomers.

Yes, we need to import a million people in nine months surely that is sustainable.

[Upper Canada Tory]

https://globalnews.ca/news/10397176/trudeau-temporary-immigration-canada/
Seems like Trudeau actually is backtracking. There actually could be a scenario where this entire international surge was more incompetence rather than malice.

“To give an example, in 2017, two per cent of Canada’s population was made up of temporary immigrants. Now we’re at 7.5 per cent of our population comprised of temporary immigrants. That’s something we need to get back under control.”

I can't believe the federal government is that incompetent.
Maybe they listened to businesses having difficulties to find employees due to manpower shortage rather than problems associated with such an influx of people.

Companies need to foreign workers, as they cannot rely on the feckless boomers.

Companies survived somehow for decades before the massive expansion of the temporary foreign worker's program. Importing massive amounts of people to solve labour shortages doesn't really help because the extra demand for goods and services creates more labour shortages.

[Upper Canada Tory]

Premier Doug Ford says he wants only Ontario students at universities, colleges

First Trudeau flip-flops on temporary resident numbers, now this. Are Canadian politicians now just going to become serial flip-floppers because they just realized their immigration/international student policies are extremely unpopular?

[MaxQue]

Premier Doug Ford says he wants only Ontario students at universities, colleges

First Trudeau flip-flops on temporary resident numbers, now this. Are Canadian politicians now just going to become serial flip-floppers because they just realized their immigration/international student policies are extremely unpopular?

Why the hostility to other provinces, through?

[Upper Canada Tory]

Premier Doug Ford says he wants only Ontario students at universities, colleges

First Trudeau flip-flops on temporary resident numbers, now this. Are Canadian politicians now just going to become serial flip-floppers because they just realized their immigration/international student policies are extremely unpopular?

Why the hostility to other provinces, through?

I am not sure if he intended to exclude other provinces or if he is just trying to say he wants to stop being dependent on international students. I have no issue with students from other provinces studying in Ontario.

[Neo-Malthusian Misanthrope]

Premier Doug Ford says he wants only Ontario students at universities, colleges

First Trudeau flip-flops on temporary resident numbers, now this. Are Canadian politicians now just going to become serial flip-floppers because they just realized their immigration/international student policies are extremely unpopular?

You see flip-floppers, I see people admitting they were wrong, better late than never. Who cares if they're doing the right thing now for the wrong reason?

[Hatman 🍁]

This is ridiculous. Imagine if a US state did that?

[oldtimer]

https://globalnews.ca/news/10397176/trudeau-temporary-immigration-canada/
Seems like Trudeau actually is backtracking. There actually could be a scenario where this entire international surge was more incompetence rather than malice.

“To give an example, in 2017, two per cent of Canada’s population was made up of temporary immigrants. Now we’re at 7.5 per cent of our population comprised of temporary immigrants. That’s something we need to get back under control.”

I can't believe the federal government is that incompetent.
Maybe they listened to businesses having difficulties to find employees due to manpower shortage rather than problems associated with such an influx of people.

If Britain left the EU over Immigration I wonder if Quebec will leave Canada over it too.

Will the BQ use the issue ?

[Upper Canada Tory]

Premier Doug Ford says he wants only Ontario students at universities, colleges

First Trudeau flip-flops on temporary resident numbers, now this. Are Canadian politicians now just going to become serial flip-floppers because they just realized their immigration/international student policies are extremely unpopular?

You see flip-floppers, I see people admitting they were wrong, better late than never. Who cares if they're doing the right thing now for the wrong reason?

You may be right, but it really boils down to trust. Are the changes that Trudeau and Ford going to make going to be real and long-lasting, or are they just doing it for performative reasons, to improve their poll numbers and keep themselves in power? Given they've been untrustworthy on the immigration file up until now, it is a concern.

I will say though, Trudeau's and Ford's apparent U-turns on immigration suggests that Canadian democracy is still functioning properly, at least to some extent. It means that people are able to hold their government accountable with their concerns - the politicians know that if they don't change course they have zero chance of getting re-elected. Very few governments in the world are willing to backtrack on an issue like immigration, so maybe it is a good sign.