Canada General Discussion (2019-)

[Independents for Nihilism]

Wait, what. He's one of my favorite Canadian Youtubers and I know he leans moderate / economically liberal, but I've never seen him express that opinion?

JJ McCullough, moderate or liberal? Now I've heard everything.

As for the other point, he seems to believe there is no meaningful difference between Canada and the US and we're just a hanger-on to a broader American culture or what have you.

[Independents for Nihilism]

What is unbelievable about the story? The government claimed it was going to close down bank accounts of people "who support the convoy" So I will take them at their word on that.

There are varying degrees of support. It strikes me as a massive waste of time and effort to go after anybody other than the big fish in this whole thing.

Also, I expected better from OSR. This whole ordeal seems to have sent everyone's heads spinning, and I can't tell if I should count myself among that number.

[Independents for Nihilism]

Mission accomplished?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-ottawa-drops-invocation-of-the-emergencies-act-prime-minister-justin/

[Independents for Nihilism]

Thoughts on this video, y'all?

I'm really tired of JJ being the one person annointed to speak about Canada online, so I was reluctant to watch this video, but I can't sleep so I decided to give it a go. Not particularly contentious but not particularly deep either, and all presented through JJ's weird idiosyncratic viewpoint about how the Canadian left is caught up in some kind of anti-American hysteria. 5/10, I've seen worse but I can think of better ways to spend 20 minutes. I'm happy to go back to ignoring JJ after this.

[Independents for Nihilism]

The Canadian left, in my personal experience, IS anti-American, because the Canadian left is anti right wing and America is full of Republicans and Republican ideologies.

I should have been more clear; my operative word wasn't meant to be anti-American, it was hysteria. Like he was going on about how the media was playing up Canadians as compliant and communitarian and Americans as selfish, it's not appropriate to flip that on its head, and I find it unfair to frame the broad Canadian agreement with madates as us being good little sheeple who do what we're told instead of as mild sacrifice and inconvenience for a greater good - basically a lot of words to say "we live in a society", which may be anathema to anyone who says "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety".

[Independents for Nihilism]

That factoid is cheating a tad since Klein was elected what, four times before ultimately retiring? Still a surprising note if a little misleading.

I think Notley was the favourite against Kenney since his caucus (and party membership, evidently) was bound to revolt, but I wouldn't be quite so fast to annoint her even if a Wildroser is due to be Kenney's replacement. I'm hardly well versed in Alberta politics but surely the UCP has somebody competent enough to hold their coalition together?

[Independents for Nihilism]

[float=right][/float]

It's a total mystery why recent New Brunswick elections have trended towards increasingly ugly levels of ethnic polarisation when this guy can be Premier propped up by a party that runs on 'French-speakers are why you can't get an ambulance', isn't it?

https://twitter.com/poitrasCBC/status/1580568307903578113?t=YR8Fo5yBo8CNFOfI97FG...

Higgs' PCs have straight up been the party of "French speakers are why you can't get an ambulance" ever since they absorbed the People's Alliance, it's like the UCP of Alberta on a smaller scale. New Brunswick exists as a more efficient model of merging cultural grievance and soulless corporate interests than DeSantis could dream of.

[Independents for Nihilism]

Something very bad has happened in canadian society especially among the young there, they are a lot in favour of killing people on the basis of poverty, that's some way radical conservatism there:

https://twitter.com/yuanyi_z/status/1655394452817555469

You see this as radical conservatism, I see it as pervasive hopelessness and a widespread belief that capitalism is broken with no way out (an incorrect belief if you ask me, of course).

[Independents for Nihilism]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro1spVdQO9Q

TLDR: Canada has a plan for what happens if the US becomes a full-on authoritarian fascist state. I've never been more ashamed of my own nationality.

Right Wing populists are ahead in the polls in Canada too.

The Conservative Leader is someone who became prominent by backing the Trucker Protest

Poilievre was elected leader of the Conservative Party with 70% of their votes before the terrorist occupation of Ottawa. Poilievre has also taken two positions on his backing of these terrorists. To Conservative partisans he proudly states his support and even sometimes what he did to support them, to Canadians in general though he denies any involvement and the he essentially only supported them in principal but opposed any of the lawlessness.

PP was elected leader after the convoy/occupation (O'Toole was turfed more or less due to his opposition to it) but the rest stands. I may be sympathetic to the centre-right and want action on cost of living and housing, but I'll find it hard to support a party led by a guy who chose to hold a meet and greet with Diagolon Nazis when he could have attended a Stanley Cup parade at the same time in the same city, no matter how nice his wife says he is.

[Independents for Nihilism]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro1spVdQO9Q

TLDR: Canada has a plan for what happens if the US becomes a full-on authoritarian fascist state. I've never been more ashamed of my own nationality.

Right Wing populists are ahead in the polls in Canada too.

The Conservative Leader is someone who became prominent by backing the Trucker Protest

Poilievre was elected leader of the Conservative Party with 70% of their votes before the terrorist occupation of Ottawa. Poilievre has also taken two positions on his backing of these terrorists. To Conservative partisans he proudly states his support and even sometimes what he did to support them, to Canadians in general though he denies any involvement and the he essentially only supported them in principal but opposed any of the lawlessness.

PP was elected leader after the convoy/occupation (O'Toole was turfed more or less due to his opposition to it) but the rest stands. I may be sympathetic to the centre-right and want action on cost of living and housing, but I'll find it hard to support a party led by a guy who chose to hold a meet and greet with Diagolon Nazis when he could have attended a Stanley Cup parade at the same time in the same city, no matter how nice his wife says he is.

It is a very hyperbolic overstatement to say O'Toole was removed because of his lack of support of the convoy. The CPC typically removes their leader after poor election performances (as what happened with Scheer in 2019).

I think people who associate Poilievre's leadership with the convoy horribly miss the point. The reason Poilievre is popular isn't because of the convoy, not amongst the Tory base nor amongst voters outside the Tory base. He's popular because of his focus and messaging on the cost of living crisis. Roman Baber and Leslyn Lewis were also in favour of the convoy - but they didn't win the leadership race!

While Scheer definitely had opposition within the caucus after famously missing a goal on an open net, he ultimately resigned and didn't face a full-fledged caucus revolt and removal like O'Toole did. I'd definitely characterise the circumstances of the end of each of ther leaderships differently.

Poilievre's leadership campaign, to me at least, hinged on a combination of vax mandate grievance and railing against inflation as the two reasons why Canada wasn't free enough. I don't think he wins the party leadership in as much of a landslide without both of those coming together.

Regarding their record as Reform Party/Canadian Alliance members, yes Harper was chastised for his past controversial statements, but he was actually relatively moderate for a Reform MP. He frequently broke ranks with his party, like being the only Reform MP to vote in favour a Canadian Firearms Registry or, at a policy convention, was one of the few Reform delegates to vote against restricting the definition of marriage to being between a man and a woman. Harper also opposed Manning's propensity toward populism, which is very in character with how he governed. On the other hand, Poilievre is a natural populist and has been known to take a more hardline stance on most issues.

I think Harper is far less of an ideologue than Poilievre is.

As an aside, Stephen Harper has said the Conservative government he led from 2006 to 2015 practiced what he calls "populist conservatism." though in his book on the concept it seems he describes "populist conservatism" as being pragmatic when it comes to addressing the issues driving populist outrage.

[Independents for Nihilism]

I wonder if there is any chance Trudeau uses this to overall smartly restrict Indian immigration to more manageable levels while having political cover. Seems like the smartest play and the right for Canada, and US citizens.

The crux of this issue is whether India assassinated a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil, but what I've read tells me this guy was here for 20 years after having multiple asylum claims rejected before somehow becoming a citizen in 2015. Pointing to that is a good way to make political hay of the situation.

[Independents for Nihilism]

A lot of otherwise reputable community colleges have also cashed in on this grift, leaving even small towns across Ontario facing shortages in rental space. Much of that blame can be laid on Doug Ford, who deregulated community colleges and private educational institutions, and then cut their funding while demanding they cut tuition fees for local students. But it's ultimately the federal government that issues study permits, and the current requirement for financial sustenance for student visas is CAD $ 10,000 per year. That's beyond ridiculous.

Students from India or anywhere who want to come to Waterloo to study computers, or other world-class programs at Canadian universities, should be given a red carpet. But what's happening is a huge grift that's leaving everyone unhappy.

Was the point of this plan to get colleges to lay off administrators and the like so as to keep costs low for in-province students, or was the asumption always that international tuition would pick up the slack?

I'm also skeptical about welcoming more students into already saturated fields, instead of laser focusing on healthcare or construction-related trades, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.

[Independents for Nihilism]

https://apnews.com/article/zelenskyy-trudeau-canada-ukraine-parliament-b0f23d207592031cedb030292eb3ae01

Apologies for the photo but the text can't be copy pasted.
Can anyone tell me what the 1st Ukrainian Division is? Searching it on google gives me a Waffen SS unit called the 1st Galician. Did the Canadian parliament just salute a Waffen SS collaborator?

It's definitely being said in various online spaces that that's the case, yeah, which is disturbing and completely unacceptable if true. I haven't been able to find reliable sources spelling it out but it's a definite, and disquieting, possibility.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwdQ2O5MlAg
Go to 48:00 minutes in the link

We have here in the chamber today, we have here a Ukrainians war veteran who fought for Ukrainian independence against the Russians at the age of 98

Everyone clapped.

When I read an article about Zelensky's speech, I thought I misread when I saw "WWII veteran who fought against the Russians" but I guess not. I know there's some degree of "enemy of my enemy" going on here, both in a WWII context and a modern one, but this is a really bad look. I might be getting overly paranoid but I think this little detail is getting conveniently left out from some media coverage...

[Independents for Nihilism]

https://apnews.com/article/zelenskyy-trudeau-canada-ukraine-parliament-b0f23d207592031cedb030292eb3ae01

Apologies for the photo but the text can't be copy pasted.
Can anyone tell me what the 1st Ukrainian Division is? Searching it on google gives me a Waffen SS unit called the 1st Galician. Did the Canadian parliament just salute a Waffen SS collaborator?

It's definitely being said in various online spaces that that's the case, yeah, which is disturbing and completely unacceptable if true. I haven't been able to find reliable sources spelling it out but it's a definite, and disquieting, possibility.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwdQ2O5MlAg
Go to 48:00 minutes in the link

We have here in the chamber today, we have here a Ukrainians war veteran who fought for Ukrainian independence against the Russians at the age of 98

Everyone clapped.

When I read an article about Zelensky's speech, I thought I misread when I saw "WWII veteran who fought against the Russians" but I guess not. I know there's some degree of "enemy of my enemy" going on here, both in a WWII context and a modern one, but this is a really bad look. I might be getting overly paranoid but I think this little detail is getting conveniently left out from some media coverage...

https://twitter.com/ctvottawa/status/1706024245426364843?t=qdWYomIifOva9GFSuJfms...

OTOH this isn't new: The Ukrainian diaspora in Canada has always been happy to remember the legacy of Ukrainians with problematic histories. Every few years there's a story of a monument being defaced cause of who it commemorates.

I should have clarified that it seems absent from CBC coverage, which is probably par for the course.  I hope the way this is handled is by really taking inventory of what associations this guy may have had with the SS while also providing appropriate historical context, and asking for admission of a mistake where necessary.

I do wonder if the Indian media picks up on this. The line would be that Canada honors radicals from around the globe such as Khalistanis and Ukrainian Nazis. Pretty easy propaganda to use .(OTOH India likes Bose a lot )

Bingo, from the first page of a google search for Yaroslav Hunka: https://www.opindia.com/2023/09/canada-house-of-commons-gave-a-standing-ovation-to-a-member-of-a-nazi-ss-unit/

[Independents for Nihilism]

I have confidence Trudeau will win. The campaign has barely even started yet; once Canadians see how much like Trump Poilievre is, they'll reject him. Please, Canada, don't screw it up - you're a much better nation than we are.

Well that settles it, Trudeau is going to lose.

As for the carbon tax, I figured the only way the current government could justify cutting it was by spinning it as "we're going to keep taxing large emitters but not individuals and families" but instead they seem to be just shrugging their shoulders and not really justifying their decision at all except in the flimsiest of ways. I do have a bit of sympathy for the idea that it's because the Atlantic provinces provide a disproportionatly large part of the Liberal caucus though - they're there to speak up on topics that effect their constituents in the way that borderline-nonexistent western Liberal MPs can't. You'd want a federal government to at least try and consider the whole country more but this is hardly a new thing.

[Independents for Nihilism]

Per Abacus, via the Toronto Star: "A full 77 per cent of people who voted Liberal in 2021 say they are tired of Trudeau, 91 per cent say he’s inauthentic and 82 per cent say he makes promises he can’t keep. Among these former Liberal voters, even more believe Trudeau got Canada into the mess it’s in."

Very bad news for Trudeau if these are the numbers he gets from people who previously voted Liberal.

[Independents for Nihilism]

Not a bad strategy - that's why I've been saying all along that the Liberals will win.

I am not as bold as that, but I do think their chances are much better than most say and I am one who believes polls will tighten.  I actually could see a repeat of what happened in Spain this summer where Tories win plurality, say 140 seats, but Trudeau gets support of not just NDP, but also BQ much like Sanchez got Catalan separatists on board and signs and supply and confidence for party to stay in power until 2029.

I know things aren't the same as 2008, but I really don't think a Liberal-NDP-Bloc coalition is in the cards, even it's to keep an incumbent government going. The Liberals would be better off hoping Poilievre blows his econimic agenda a la Joe Clark and sends everyone back to the polls within the year - bonus points if Trudeau resigns then un-resigns too.

[Independents for Nihilism]

I feel like immigration is the third rail of Canadian politics. No one wants to be seen as 'racist' for opposing it, even if Canadians generally oppose it.

I do agree that it will be a big issue in the next election. Poilieve will have to address the issue very carefully. He can't be seen as being racist, but he does risk losing votes to the PPC. I assume Bernier is going to focus his campaign heavily on being anti-immigration and with the Tories assured victory, a lot of people on the far right may feel like voting PPC won't split the vote.

Anecdotally I'm seeing a lot of chatter on places like Reddit about the influx of student immigration from India, and how they're not integrating very well (to put it mildly) on campuses. It's certainly fuelling a lot of racism and xenophobia.  

 

the ppc are a fringe party

They got 5% of the vote last time. Whether you consider that fringe or not is up to you, but it's significant enough for the Conservatives to worry about losing votes to them.

The Tories nominated Erin O Toole last time though, not Pierre Polievre . Erin O Toole was not liked by many right wingers which is why the PPC was able to do that well

Also, a lot of it was just anti-vaccine stuff which just isn't going to be relevant in 2025.

I think it is true that in the end Erin O'Toole wasn't really trusted by anybody. I think there was a sense with many blue collar union workers that liked his pro private sector union policies that if he got elected Prime Minister and tried to implement those pro union policies that there would be a revolt in his caucus.

I think that was a reason why Doug Ford was able to successfully run on pro private sector union policies and succeed while Erin O'Toole failed.

Maybe it's because Poilievre has a firm grip on the party that nobody seem to complain about supporting the federal anti-scab legislation. I imagine if the party did this under O'Toole he would be called more than a red Tory, like a socialist.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conservatives-vote-in-favour-anti-scab-bill-1.7127344

If the legislation comes in effect after the election maybe the Conservatives plan to scrap it. I have a hard time imagining they are for it.

It's textbook populism, just like most centre-right parties are embracing. Peter Pumpkineater wants to eat the NDP's lunch, too, and with them seeming more concerned about Palestinian statehood than working class issues, the time is ripe to do it.

[Independents for Nihilism]

Premier Doug Ford says he wants only Ontario students at universities, colleges

First Trudeau flip-flops on temporary resident numbers, now this. Are Canadian politicians now just going to become serial flip-floppers because they just realized their immigration/international student policies are extremely unpopular?

You see flip-floppers, I see people admitting they were wrong, better late than never. Who cares if they're doing the right thing now for the wrong reason?

[Independents for Nihilism]

Premier Doug Ford says he wants only Ontario students at universities, colleges

First Trudeau flip-flops on temporary resident numbers, now this. Are Canadian politicians now just going to become serial flip-floppers because they just realized their immigration/international student policies are extremely unpopular?

You see flip-floppers, I see people admitting they were wrong, better late than never. Who cares if they're doing the right thing now for the wrong reason?

Not all provinces offer every education program under the sun and may need to rely on other provinces. For example, people in my part of Quebec who want to become morticians are usually going to the Collège Boréal in Sudbury, as it is closer than any Quebec establishment offering the course.

That's true, I was acting under the assumption Ford's hypothetical policy would refer to domestic students, not just Ontario students alone. Would there even be enough Ontario students to support all Ontario universities, considering many would still leave for school? Probably not.