FBI search warrant executed at Mar-a-Lago (Update: Trump Indicted!)

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

What is with this dude's obsession with the number 33?

He’s about to crash his Scion TC at 100 miles an hour and end up upright on miracle status.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

If Trump knew about aliens, there is zero chance we wouldn’t know by now.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Tuned into Fox. They're basically going with he thought he declassified the stuff and if it was such a big deal it would have been retrieved a lot sooner.

The whiplash from “how dare the FBI raid Mar-a-Lago” to “how dare the FBI not have raided Mar-a-Lago sooner” is Veep-esque.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

There is a reason the NYT is number one:

"The search warrant for Trump’s residence cited three criminal laws, all from Title 18 of the United States Code. Section 793, better known as the Espionage Act, which covers the unlawful retention of defense-related information that could harm the United States or aid a foreign adversary; Section 1519, which covers destroying or concealing documents to obstruct government investigations or administrative proceedings; and Section 2071, which covers the unlawful removal of government records. Notably, none of those laws turn on whether information was deemed to be unclassified."

Twitter user @KDbyProxy (wonderful follow btw, whip smart, especially wrt this sort of thing) caught this yesterday. Here's the relevant tweet:

https://twitter.com/KDbyProxy/status/1557872185959751681

This seems like a stretch.

They're going to put Trump in jail for ten years for possessing unclassified documents?  That doesn't pass the smell test

I mean, they weren’t unclassified, for one. They were top secret in some cases.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP HAD A GENERAL DECLASSIFICATION ORDER, particularly related to the FBI's Crossfire Hurricane Investigation....

Now we know why they went in. Instead of asking for it when they were there in June they raided the thing two months later.

MEMORANDUM FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
THE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE
THE DIRECTOR OF THE CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY

SUBJECT:    Declassification of Certain Materials Related to the FBI’s Crossfire Hurricane Investigation

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, I hereby direct the following:

Section 1.  Declassification and Release.    At my request, on December 30, 2020, the Department of Justice provided the White House with a binder of materials related to the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Crossfire Hurricane investigation.  Portions of the documents in the binder have remained classified and have not been released to the Congress or the public.  I requested the documents so that a declassification review could be performed and so I could determine to what extent materials in the binder should be released in unclassified form.

I determined that the materials in that binder should be declassified to the maximum extent possible.  In response, and as part of the iterative process of the declassification review, under a cover letter dated January 17, 2021, the Federal Bureau of Investigation noted its continuing objection to any further declassification of the materials in the binder and also, on the basis of a review that included Intelligence Community equities, identified the passages that it believed it was most crucial to keep from public disclosure.  I have determined to accept the redactions proposed for continued classification by the FBI in that January 17 submission.

I hereby declassify the remaining materials in the binder.  This is my final determination under the declassification review and I have directed the Attorney General to implement the redactions proposed in the FBI’s January 17 submission and return to the White House an appropriately redacted copy.

My decision to declassify materials within the binder is subject to the limits identified above and does not extend to materials that must be protected from disclosure pursuant to orders of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court and does not require the disclosure of certain personally identifiable information or any other materials that must be protected from disclosure under applicable law.  Accordingly, at my direction, the Attorney General has conducted an appropriate review to ensure that materials provided in the binder may be disclosed by the White House in accordance with applicable law.

Sec. 2.  General Provisions.   (a)  Nothing in this memorandum shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

(i)   the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or

(ii)  the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.

(b)  This memorandum shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

(c)  This memorandum is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

(d)  The Attorney General is authorized and directed to publish this memorandum in the Federal Register.

DONALD J. TRUMP

https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/presidential-actions/memorandum-declassification-certain-materials-related-fbis-crossfire-hurricane-investigation/

The Memorandum was issued January 19th 2021.

I’m not seeing how this is a “general declassification order”. It seems to be limited to a set of documents relating to Crossfire Hurricane/the Russia investigation.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP HAD A GENERAL DECLASSIFICATION ORDER, particularly related to the FBI's Crossfire Hurricane Investigation....

Now we know why they went in. Instead of asking for it when they were there in June they raided the thing two months later.

MEMORANDUM FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
THE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE
THE DIRECTOR OF THE CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY

SUBJECT:    Declassification of Certain Materials Related to the FBI’s Crossfire Hurricane Investigation

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, I hereby direct the following:

Section 1.  Declassification and Release.    At my request, on December 30, 2020, the Department of Justice provided the White House with a binder of materials related to the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Crossfire Hurricane investigation.  Portions of the documents in the binder have remained classified and have not been released to the Congress or the public.  I requested the documents so that a declassification review could be performed and so I could determine to what extent materials in the binder should be released in unclassified form.

I determined that the materials in that binder should be declassified to the maximum extent possible.  In response, and as part of the iterative process of the declassification review, under a cover letter dated January 17, 2021, the Federal Bureau of Investigation noted its continuing objection to any further declassification of the materials in the binder and also, on the basis of a review that included Intelligence Community equities, identified the passages that it believed it was most crucial to keep from public disclosure.  I have determined to accept the redactions proposed for continued classification by the FBI in that January 17 submission.

I hereby declassify the remaining materials in the binder.  This is my final determination under the declassification review and I have directed the Attorney General to implement the redactions proposed in the FBI’s January 17 submission and return to the White House an appropriately redacted copy.

My decision to declassify materials within the binder is subject to the limits identified above and does not extend to materials that must be protected from disclosure pursuant to orders of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court and does not require the disclosure of certain personally identifiable information or any other materials that must be protected from disclosure under applicable law.  Accordingly, at my direction, the Attorney General has conducted an appropriate review to ensure that materials provided in the binder may be disclosed by the White House in accordance with applicable law.

Sec. 2.  General Provisions.   (a)  Nothing in this memorandum shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

(i)   the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or

(ii)  the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.

(b)  This memorandum shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

(c)  This memorandum is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

(d)  The Attorney General is authorized and directed to publish this memorandum in the Federal Register.

DONALD J. TRUMP

https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/presidential-actions/memorandum-declassification-certain-materials-related-fbis-crossfire-hurricane-investigation/

The Memorandum was issued January 19th 2021.

I’m not seeing how this is a “general declassification order”. It seems to be limited to a set of documents relating to Crossfire Hurricane/the Russia investigation.

Yes, "general declassification order" is a figment of 2016's imagination.  Read the order and it specifically applies only to the items in one binder, and with some limitations spelled out.

Trump: I’m choosing to formally declassify certain materials in one specific binder, except those that the FBI has advised against declassifying for security reasons

2016: aha! He clearly meant “Kid Rock can touch the nuclear football”

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

We're sure that he was aware of them in light of the NYT's report just now:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/13/us/politics/trump-classified-material-fbi.html

In the spring, the Justice Department issued a subpoena to Mr. Trump seeking further documents believed to be in his possession. He was repeatedly urged by advisers to return what remained, despite what they described as his desire to continue to hold onto some documents.

Incidentally, such being the case helps neuter DT's point from a few days ago about how the warrant was apparently unnecessary overkill on account of the "cooperation."

Perhaps he took them by accident and, realizing what he’d done, tried to pretend they didn’t exist. It’s not that I think Trump isn’t stupid enough to purposely make off with nuclear documents (he absolutely is), but this isn’t something I imagine him doing without some clear incentive or financial gain. What is to be gained from having these documents?

I’m not sure he was even thinking in those terms. I think he just thought “I want to have these, they belong to me” and took them like souvenirs.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

https://usrimg-850.fark.net/n/np/fark_np_n8OzA6X7_y8wdzZug5XBFuGM.png

My guess is even if Trump gets convicted he would not be put in the regular prison system . The DOJ probably would use an abandoned military base or even a property of his and then just fence it off .

Maybe to assuage Trump's ego, we can give him the Napoleon treatment and just make him Emperor of Niihau. He got 100% of the vote there, so he could be surrounded by fans for the rest of his life.

You realize he starts 2024 with the Republican Nomination, and a minimum of 74 million voters and 235 electoral votes, right?

That's a pretty poor reflection on those 74 million.

It's also a completely unjustified assumption that he would start with the same level of support he had in 2020.  Trump lost electoral votes and share of the popular vote from 2016 to 2020, so he could certainly do the same from 2020 to 2024.  In fact, polling suggests that he likely would do so.

He actually went from 46% in 2016 to 47% in 2020.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Fuzzy: is the warrant a forgery? Or is the FBI lying? If so, what are they lying about? Did Trump have those documents at Mar-a-Lago, having declassified them before he left office, or did the FBI plant evidence?

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

This seems like a stretch.

They're going to put Trump in jail for ten years for possessing unclassified documents?  That doesn't pass the smell test

I'm late to the party here but let me get this straight: according to you, Trump stole a bunch of documents which legally were supposed to return to the government upon his exiting office, including numerous top secret and nuclear documents; used his psychic legal powers asserted by the Heritage Foundation to declassify these documents, without ever communicating that they were declassified; stashed them in his beach house; refused to turn them over to the government for a year and a half, breaking a law which says that keeping government documents carries a legal penalty; and finally gets them snatched back once his beach house is raided. And the part of this saga you find objectionable is that the law Trump broke did not differentiate between government documents which were and were not declassified by Trump's mind powers.

No, that's not what I'm saying.  Stop enjoying listening to yourself so much and consider this nuance:  not all documents presidents are supposed to return to NARA under the PRA would be classified.  If the Espionage Act is being used to potentially prosecute Trump for not returning these records upon "demand of an officer or employee of the United States" then that is prosecutorial overkill.

So you’re arguing that documents pertaining to our nuclear weapons is no big deal for Trump to have and not return?

Do we have confirmation as to the content of the documents and whether they were indeed classified? 

The warrant lists multiple boxes documents as top secret. Obviously their content can’t be revealed, but the less-secret seized documents pertained to Roger Stone’s pardon and the President of France.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

The investigations into Nixon were not about finding a crime to charge him with; they were about specified abuses of power, one of them being obstruction of Justice, in which his own Counsel to the President, John Dean, testified under oath that he committed.  This was bolstered by the disclosure by Alexander Butterfield that Nixon had a taping system.

The investigation discussed here is about specific crimes as indicated in the warrant. 18 U.S.C. §§ 793, 1519, 2071. You can look them up if you want, or I can provide links.
 

Warrants for Searches and Arrests are limited in scope and present probable cause that a crime of a specified nature has already been committed.  That's not what has happened here, but people will keep telling themselves otherwise.

How is it not what’s happened here? Have you read the warrant? Are you ever going to engage with what it actually says (this question is rhetorical)?

If they can do it to Trump, they can do it to you.

I am already fully aware that I am subject to the laws of the United States.

I'll say no more.  I'll let the facts come out.  Nothing will surprise me.  And Donald Trump should not get away with criminal activity just because some of his adversaries did.  But if Donald Trump IS actually convicted of a crime (and I'll believe it only after the entire process is played out), then a two-tiered system of Justice, politicized to the max, will have been formally implemented.  That will not be cause to celebrate.  It will deter good men from seeking the Presidency, but it will not deter scoundrels, and particularly those scoundrels whose adult lives have been about nothing but politics.

What would it take to convince you that Trump had broken the law? I would honestly love to know. Would you believe the affidavit used to produce this search warrant (why, when you don’t seem to understand that it exists)? Would you believe the outcome of a trial (clearly not)? Would you believe a confession from Trump himself?

I really want you to answer these questions. I think they’d provide valuable insight for me and others on the forum into how 35-40% of the country thinks.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

One can argue this, yes.  One can also argue that Nixon should have made the kind of stink about stolen elections in 1960.  The irregularities in both the city of Chicago and specified counties in Texas (one would have to get a copy of Six Crises to find the specific counties were gross irregularities had occurred.  (I remember one of them as being Fannin County, TX, but there were some others.)   

The investigations into Nixon were not about finding a crime to charge him with; they were about specified abuses of power, one of them being obstruction of Justice, in which his own Counsel to the President, John Dean, testified under oath that he committed.  This was bolstered by the disclosure by Alexander Butterfield that Nixon had a taping system.

The double standards are obvious.  Hillary Clinton had classified material that she did not have the power to declassify that got onto Anthony Weiner's phone.  She got away with less than a "My Bad!".  Those irregularities involved specific material, but it was no big deal to anyone here that she was never prosecuted.  Indeed, BILL Clinton (arguably) obstructed justice in his time on the tarmac in a plane with Loretta Lynch.  This was overt obstruction of a criminal investigation, yet no one has called for BILL Clinton to be investigated (or Loretta Lynch, for that matter).  The selective outrage is telling, and many of you have, for literally YEARS on this Forum, called for Trump to be arrested, charged, tried, convicted, and jailed, without specifying charges (or specifying matters that have been proven false over time, such as most of the Muller Report nonsense).  That's not how it works.  But a governent that can actually do what they've done to Donald Trump can do so with YOUR favorite elected official, should the political tides change. 

And that's where I'm at with this.  In many matters, Trump has been less than his Own Best Friend.  But the conduct of those "prosecuting" (actually persecuting) him shows a minimal regard for the Rule of Law, for the standards of honesty in obtaining FISA Warrants, for the idea that a Congressional "investigation" such as the January 6th Committee is supposed to have a definitive LEGISLATIVE purpose behind it, that the CONGRESS does not have the power to simply investigate alleged crimes with no legislative purpose, and that Warrants for Searches and Arrests are limited in scope and present probable cause that a crime of a specified nature has already been committed.  That's not what has happened here, but people will keep telling themselves otherwise.

If they can do it to Trump, they can do it to you.  If they can do it to you, they can do it to me.  Am I afraid of a government, regardless of party, that can throw the 4th, 5th, and 14th Amendments out the window because someone has to be "gotten"?  That WOULD be a different country than the one I grew up in, and it is the type of country that people come from other parts of the World (legally and Illegally, I might add) to get away from.

I'll say no more.  I'll let the facts come out.  Nothing will surprise me.  And Donald Trump should not get away with criminal activity just because some of his adversaries did.  But if Donald Trump IS actually convicted of a crime (and I'll believe it only after the entire process is played out), then a two-tiered system of Justice, politicized to the max, will have been formally implemented.  That will not be cause to celebrate.  It will deter good men from seeking the Presidency, but it will not deter scoundrels, and particularly those scoundrels whose adult lives have been about nothing but politics.

I feel like it’s been a while since we had some good meme comics about Atlas dynamics, not just wojak stuff. Takes me back to The Professor and JJ.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

I hope the Republicans don’t do the same thing to the Capitol that they did during the Trump administration.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Why would he resign since there is zero chance he would be convicted.

To spare Biden an Embarrassment.

Impeachments generally do not help the party in charge of the impeachment though. Republicans impeaching Clinton(or moving towards doing so) increased President Clinton's approvals and Republicans lost seats in a midterm.

Impeaching Trump in 2019 also resulted in Trump's approvals going slightly up so generally impeachment generally does not work.

There has already being Impeachment Articles written against Garland as I type here.

For what? Executing a search warrant?

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Fuzzy: is the warrant a forgery? Or is the FBI lying? If so, what are they lying about? Did Trump have those documents at Mar-a-Lago, having declassified them before he left office, or did the FBI plant evidence?

You should honestly not even bother. Fuzzy will never engage on any of your questions and will just run away from the thread, hope things die done then come back with a new round of talking points. It’s better to just call him out on his absurdities and leave it at that

He clearly has an attachment to Trump beyond “logic” and that doesn’t make it less valid, it just means understanding it can’t be done through a scientific lens.

It’s quite easy to understand. Fuzzy is a typical cranky old fart who’s mad the world isn’t the same as when he grew up in and Trump hurts and upsets the various groups and elements Fuzzy blames for the changes 

Fuzzy is actually pretty young in many ways :


- He uses Millennial Jargon

- His politics are way more Similar to Under 40 Republicans than Over 40.

- He is definitely less jingoistic than most boomers

Yet another ways, particularly views on social issues he's well over 100.

Pantina of using words like cringe or based doesn't keep someone from being an ancient old fart.

Wrong:

- He opposes overturning Obergefell

- He supports criminal justice reforms like reducing sentences for non violent crimes, supports felon voting etc.

They don't read my posts.

Hey, Fuzzy, did you read my posts? I’d love to know what you think about the unsealed warrant. Was it fake, or did the FBI plant evidence, or what? Do you think they’re lying about section 793, 2071, or 1519, or all three?

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

I mean I actually think it would be reckless for DOJ not to consider the political consequences of such a decision. Going after a former president is inherently political no matter what anyone says and that's why it should not happen other than the most serious of circumstances.

I do not agree with your belief that the President should be above the law except under extreme circumstances.

Did OSR say Trump is above the law? No he did not. Stop twisting his words.

What the 3 of us (OSR, Fuzzy Bear and myself) are saying that the timing is highly suspicious!

What would be a non-suspicious timing? Why should the DoJ change its procedures to placate one political party?

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

I mean I actually think it would be reckless for DOJ not to consider the political consequences of such a decision. Going after a former president is inherently political no matter what anyone says and that's why it should not happen other than the most serious of circumstances.

I do not agree with your belief that the President should be above the law except under extreme circumstances.

The real world isn’t a high school civics class and the fact is it also would result in many many other members of previous administrations being potentially prosecuted given that technically our foreign policy since 1945 probably has resulted in laws being broken by multiple administrators.

Like I said I don’t think Eisenhower or Nixon should have been prosecuted for Their use of the CIA , LBJ for Gulf of Tonkin lie , Reagan/Bush for Iran Contra , W for Guantanamo Bay , Obama for how he used drones etc .

Dang that’s crazy, maybe we should change something about the way we execute our foreign policy

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

This seems like a stretch.

They're going to put Trump in jail for ten years for possessing unclassified documents?  That doesn't pass the smell test

I'm late to the party here but let me get this straight: according to you, Trump stole a bunch of documents which legally were supposed to return to the government upon his exiting office, including numerous top secret and nuclear documents; used his psychic legal powers asserted by the Heritage Foundation to declassify these documents, without ever communicating that they were declassified; stashed them in his beach house; refused to turn them over to the government for a year and a half, breaking a law which says that keeping government documents carries a legal penalty; and finally gets them snatched back once his beach house is raided. And the part of this saga you find objectionable is that the law Trump broke did not differentiate between government documents which were and were not declassified by Trump's mind powers.

No, that's not what I'm saying.  Stop enjoying listening to yourself so much and consider this nuance:  not all documents presidents are supposed to return to NARA under the PRA would be classified.  If the Espionage Act is being used to potentially prosecute Trump for not returning these records upon "demand of an officer or employee of the United States" then that is prosecutorial overkill.

The only provision of the Espionage Act that he's actually being accused of violating merely concerns the unauthorized retention of national defense information. Just because it's called the "Espionage Act" doesn't mean that the DoJ is acting as if he transmitted state secrets to hostile nations because, flashy title aside, it's still one of its provisions that criminalizes the willful mishandling of these documents, which is still, y'know, a blatant federal crime even if/when it doesn't rise to the level of active, spy-like espionage. So if he's alleged to have not only retained & mishandled records that he was unauthorized to retain, but then willfully concealed his retention & mishandling of such documents from investigators, then where exactly is this supposed prosecutorial overkill that you speak of? What's wrong here??

Any charge under the Espionage Act is prosecutorial overkill because there is separate legislation that regulates presidential records, and Trump should be charged under that statute as he once had presidential custody over the documents in question (which is not a situation the Espionage Act was written to consider, per the legislative history of the act.) 

…

The search warrant literally cited that separate legislation, 18 USC 2071, the PRA. "Whoever, having the custody of any such record… willfully and unlawfully conceals [or] removes… the same, shall be fined… or imprisoned not more than three years, or both." You clearly seem to misunderstand how criminal investigations work, because when an investigation into potential instances of one crime, like violating the PRA, uncovers evidence of not only such violations but also of other crimes, like violating the Espionage Act & concealing the violations of both acts from investigators, then the accused will be liable for those actions too.

And yes, his alleged actions clearly fall under the purview of 18 USC 793, the section of the Espionage Act concerned, if, in undertaking those actions, he was retaining information related to the national defense that could be used to injure the U.S. or to the advantage of a foreign government without the necessary authorization to retain such information. That's a blatant violation of the provision at hand, not something that wasn't considered within the legislative history of the act, & we know that because it's been consistently prosecuted, except without the initial good-faith effort to treat the accused with a great amount of deference in light of their former job & figure all of this out cooperatively.

The Espionage Act is only at play here because the DOJ believes certain documents recovered from Mar-a-Lago contain "national defense" information (whatever that means.)  A former president or anyone else retaining presidential records is a violation of the Presidential Records Act, and should be prosecuted as such.  A lesser charge under the PRA is entirely appropriate given a "great amount of deference in light of [Trump's] former job" and no indication that he was attempting to transmit the information to hostile governments or individuals.

No offense, DT, but the cognitive dissonance that's being displayed here by you right now is frankly staggering. If I didn't know any better, then I'd presume that you were actively trying to portray a caricatured exemplification of the party of "law & order" & "national defense" now ironically being the party that doesn't give a sh*t about either at the altar of Donald Trump. Wow.

The only cognitive dissonance to see here are those giddy to defend the DOJ's heavy-handed approach here while the likes of Sandy Berger and Hillary Clinton were given great deference and administrative slaps-on-the-wrist for similar mishandlings of classified info.

Two wrongs don't make a right.  But different treatment for two equal wrongs is a third wrong, especially if AG Garland's high-minded rhetoric from last week about the "evenhanded application of the law" is to be believed. 

This was not heavy-handed. Heavy-handed would have been enacting the raid a year and a half ago and arresting Trump immediately. They gave Trump and his legal team many opportunities to return the documents and only did this because they repeatedly refused to hand them over and lied about it.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

But those previous investigations were under previous administrations; Garland can hardly be blamed for how they were conducted.  If you think the consequences for Clinton and Berger were too light, then why would it be a good idea for them to set a precedent for subsequent investigations?

I don't think the outcome for Clinton was too light, but she seems to have been afforded a great deal of investigative and prosecutorial deference that Trump isn't getting.  Keeping classified information on an unsecured email server is functionally equivalent to keeping it at Mar-a-Lago.  It appears in neither case was there an intention to transmit or leak classified information to bad actors. 

What is the ideal level of investigative and prosecutorial deference that Trump should be getting? Should that change if he lies to the people investigating him about having cooperated?

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

This was not heavy-handed. Heavy-handed would have been enacting the raid a year and a half ago and arresting Trump immediately. They gave Trump and his legal team many opportunities to return the documents and only did this because they repeatedly refused to hand them over and lied about it.

What indicates Trump has been uncooperative with records requests?  He voluntarily returned 15 boxes of records to NARA in January.  Reporting is that his lawyers were cooperative when the FBI later executed a subpoena on June 3rd, and they took custody of additional documents at that time.

Please keep up or please shut up:

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1558281457768038400https://twitter.com/BradMossEsq/status/1558484552653357056
And that's just from what we know based off of the public reporting alone. Imagine what DoJ already knows that we don't.

The letter from Kim Jong-un is one that Trump already voluntarily returned to NARA in January.  It doesn't matter that Trump mistakenly or ignorantly believed it was his to keep if he ultimately complied with a request to return it.

The contents of this "written statement" are unknown and the sources who leaked its alleged presence to the press couldn't even say which of Trump's lawyers had signed it.  If the lawyers believed to the best of their knowledge that all classified info had been returned, then that isn't an obstruction of justice.   

"Imagine what the DOJ knows that we don't"?  Probably not much.  The DOJ of the past couple of years is notoriously loose-lipped.  As much as you and partisans would wish otherwise, there's no smoking gun contained anywhere in the DOJ's official statements or what's been verified in leaks to the press thus far. 

But why would they believe this? Did Trump lie to them? Or did he just have so much top-secret information stashed away in his house that he just forgot about a bunch of it? Because I don’t know which is worse.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

But those previous investigations were under previous administrations; Garland can hardly be blamed for how they were conducted.  If you think the consequences for Clinton and Berger were too light, then why would it be a good idea for them to set a precedent for subsequent investigations?

I don't think the outcome for Clinton was too light, but she seems to have been afforded a great deal of investigative and prosecutorial deference that Trump isn't getting.  Keeping classified information on an unsecured email server is functionally equivalent to keeping it at Mar-a-Lago.  It appears in neither case was there an intention to transmit or leak classified information to bad actors. 

What is the ideal level of investigative and prosecutorial deference that Trump should be getting? Should that change if he lies to the people investigating him about having cooperated?

I haven't seen any reporting to indicate that the execution of a search warrant was necessary to recover potentially sensitive documents from Mar-a-Lago.  Trump and his lawyers had already voluntarily complied with a request from NARA and a subpoena from the DOJ.  I can't find see a reason why cooperative methods of resolving a document dispute had been exhausted.   

My mind is boggled right now. It’s literally the post you responded to.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

This is beyond mental gymnastics, this is going over Niagara Falls in a mental barrel.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

This was not heavy-handed. Heavy-handed would have been enacting the raid a year and a half ago and arresting Trump immediately. They gave Trump and his legal team many opportunities to return the documents and only did this because they repeatedly refused to hand them over and lied about it.

What indicates Trump has been uncooperative with records requests?  He voluntarily returned 15 boxes of records to NARA in January.  Reporting is that his lawyers were cooperative when the FBI later executed a subpoena on June 3rd, and they took custody of additional documents at that time.

Please keep up or please shut up:

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1558281457768038400https://twitter.com/BradMossEsq/status/1558484552653357056
And that's just from what we know based off of the public reporting alone. Imagine what DoJ already knows that we don't.

The letter from Kim Jong-un is one that Trump already voluntarily returned to NARA in January.  It doesn't matter that Trump mistakenly or ignorantly believed it was his to keep if he ultimately complied with a request to return it.

The contents of this "written statement" are unknown and the sources who leaked its alleged presence to the press couldn't even say which of Trump's lawyers had signed it.  If the lawyers believed to the best of their knowledge that all classified info had been returned, then that isn't an obstruction of justice.   

"Imagine what the DOJ knows that we don't"?  Probably not much.  The DOJ of the past couple of years is notoriously loose-lipped.  As much as you and partisans would wish otherwise, there's no smoking gun contained anywhere in the DOJ's official statements or what's been verified in leaks to the press thus far. 

But why would they believe this? Did Trump lie to them? Or did he just have so much top-secret information stashed away in his house that he just forgot about a bunch of it? Because I don’t know which is worse.

Trump probably has a lot of records from his time as president stored at Mar-a-Lago, many of which he would be entitled to retain.  It's not that unusual that his attorneys would not have a complete inventory of the tens of thousands of documents, letters, photographs, etc. in his possession.

You know these files are labeled things like “Top Secret”, right? I think it’s pretty unusual for his lawyers to not know about them when they’re the cause of an investigation into their client, and furthermore to sign a statement saying that they had returned all such documents when they in fact hadn’t done so. But Trump only hires the best people, folks!

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

I love that the defense is now “well Trump was just so awash in stuff he took from the White House that his dumbass lawyers just couldn’t find all the top secret documents!”

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Wait, is that real? Because that'd be huge if his passports were taken away!

Why would you take Trump at his word about anything?

It seems like something he’d blurt out without thinking about the implications of having his passports seized.

The new “they even broke into my safe!”