UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[Silent Hunter]

Well, he won a couple of European Parliamentary elections...

[CumbrianLefty]

Touche, post duly modified

[cp]

Well mentioning Farage sort of proves my point. He is popular - VERY popular - with a section of the UK electorate, but his politics is never going to actually win a "proper" election. Hopefully.

*He* didn't need to win a 'proper' election. He won enough 'improper' (...?) elections that both major parties eventually shifted to embrace his goals.

And in any case, winning an election wasn't your original criterion. 'Doing well' was, and by that measure Trumpism in some form or another seems to be quite successful indeed across much of Europe.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Donald Trump, real estate mogul turned Reality TV Star turned politician, is a quintessentially American figure who doesn't really make sense in the context of any other society. Except maybe Italy.

[CumbrianLefty]

Anyway, things are generally going just *swimmingly* right now.

[Silent Hunter]

The first episode of the original Spitting Image from 1984 is now available on YouTube via their official channel.

[YL]

Several new members of the House of Lords announced today, including one who was rejected by the House of Lords Appointments Commission, due to allegations about his behaviour a few years ago when he was Treasurer of the Conservative Party, only for de Pfeffel to override them.

[brucejoel99]

Several new members of the House of Lords announced today, including one who was rejected by the House of Lords Appointments Commission, due to allegations about his behaviour a few years ago when he was Treasurer of the Conservative Party, only for de Pfeffel to override them.

The government really doesn't give a sh*t anymore, do they?

[CumbrianLefty]

Several new members of the House of Lords announced today, including one who was rejected by the House of Lords Appointments Commission, due to allegations about his behaviour a few years ago when he was Treasurer of the Conservative Party, only for de Pfeffel to override them.

The government really doesn't give a sh*t anymore, do they?

They think they can do pretty much anything they want because the media will let them.

And little has happened to dissuade them of such a belief thus far.

[Cassius]

Several new members of the House of Lords announced today, including one who was rejected by the House of Lords Appointments Commission, due to allegations about his behaviour a few years ago when he was Treasurer of the Conservative Party, only for de Pfeffel to override them.

The government really doesn't give a sh*t anymore, do they?

They think they can do pretty much anything they want because the media will let them.

And little has happened to dissuade them of such a belief thus far.

Well to be fair bunging a bent businessman a baronetcy is bipartisan British tradition.

Anyway, large parts of the country will be heading into Tier 4 on Boxing Day, presumably a prelude to a new national lockdown in the new year. Time to be summarily shot by the COVID marshals for travelling back from my Mum’s to my house in a Tier 4 zone.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Ducks are not quite yet all in a row, but things have reached that Special point where to back out would be so embarrassing that...

[Pericles]

What a relief. Maybe it was inevitable since no deal would have been so irrational for both sides (particularly the UK), and Boris was just really squeezing it out as much as absolutely possible for the political theatrics.

[CumbrianLefty]

The main danger in the last week or so has been not getting an agreement by mistake tbh.

Of course the PM will milk this for all it is worth, and be backed by our famously servile media in doing so. I suspect the main benefit is a "negative" one, though - avoiding the horrors of *not* doing a deal.

It will be interesting as well to see if Farage wins over some "no deal" diehards to his new "project".

[EastAnglianLefty]

The deal has been imminent for upwards of 12 hours now, so I wouldn't rule out one last burst of idiocy. It's unlikely, but not impossible.

[CumbrianLefty]

Though it is noteworthy that even the usual suspects don't seem to be shouting "BETRAYAL!" much, which must make that still less likely.

[Blair]

The main takeaway I get from the reaction to this is that people are generally tired/fed-up & not interested; if you're a business who needs access to the Single Market you've known for 3+ years this is the destination, if you wanted to remain you've known this would happen since December 13th etc etc.

I think the genuine worry created in the last week over our ports means that for a lot of people any deal is better than a bad one; there's a bit of a rearguard to get Labour to abstain on it but it seems like more of a rearguard than anything; the only strong argument for Labour to abstain is party unity & just avoiding a fight.

I've always thought that Labour should either vote for the deal or vote it down; I can't see the benefits that abstaining brings at all.

[CumbrianLefty]

And lets be honest, abstaining on *this* might be easier for Labour if they hadn't already spent some of that capital on distinctly second order issues (however "smart" that seemed to some at the time)

Starmer really doesn't want the "can't make up his mind" label to stick.

[Mike88]

A deal has been reached!!

https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1342123109424504833

[The Dowager Mod]

There is a metaphor here somewhere. 
https://twitter.com/LukePowell88/status/1342026302845579264

[afleitch]

So Boris tell us what you got....

....mumbles....'fish.'

[afleitch]

If tariffs get imposed if we deviate from EU workers rights etc, that's actually not a bad thing.

[brucejoel99]

A deal has been reached!!

https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1342123109424504833

Somebody please tell me that the fish will be okay !!1!

[Pericles]

I wonder how much the 'European question' is actually resolved. Clearly the public and politicians are very tired of banging on about Brexit. The deal is less polarizing than no deal. And the 2019 election result will make Labour much more cautious about reopening the Brexit debate, let alone supporting rejoining the EU. Starmer's strategy is clearly that he wants to ignore Brexit as much as possible and talk about other issues, so he can win back those socially conservative Red Wall voters. However, the Brexit referendum was narrowly decided, and so many people thinking Brexit was the wrong decision does not bode well for it being a settled issue (48% wrong to 38% right according to the latest polling). Some of this polling could just be based on fear of no deal, it's unclear whether Brexit getting done now will make people think it's not as bad as they were warned (even if it's pretty bad) or if it's even worse and a big mistake. This is a very hard Brexit, Starmer seems to have said he will renegotiate it if he becomes Prime Minister to forge a closer relationship. Will Starmer be able to get the balance right then and win over both sides of the divide, without a movement to rejoin the EU becoming a big thing in the next four years?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Well the issue won't go away in a broad sense because the exact relationship between Britain and its continental neighbours has always been fluid and changeable. But there is a considerable difference between that and the issue as it was between the referendum and the last election.

[brucejoel99]

Starmer's strategy is clearly that he wants to ignore Brexit as much as possible and talk about other issues, so he can win back those socially conservative Red Wall voters. [...] it's unclear whether Brexit getting done now will make people think it's not as bad as they were warned (even if it's pretty bad) or if it's even worse and a big mistake. [...] Will Starmer be able to get the balance right then and win over both sides of the divide, without a movement to rejoin the EU becoming a big thing in the next four years?

It depends whether the Tories can find other wedge issues to keep the support of those Red Wall voters. A good parallel might be how all of those people who said that not joining the Euro would be disastrous largely escaped with their reputations intact because people just forgot, so perhaps Labour will turn out the same? Remember, though, that Brexit was just a consequence of Britain's national divide, rather than an actual cause of it. Finally leaving the EU in full doesn't do anything to change the significant gap between metropolitan & non-metropolitan Britain.