UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[Hnv1]

With schools and universities now shut for the foreseeable future, it’s difficult to see how the restrictions can practically be made stricter, short of ‘well if we self-nuked the country then that would prevent anymore COVID-related deaths’.

Our first lock-down had us stay within 500 meters of our home, no visits to others even if they live next door, and closing any nonessential business with more than 10 employees.

My understanding (correct me if I’m wrong) is that your lockdown was partly enforced by the Israeli Defence Force? That would not be acceptable in this country, and even if it were the British Army doesn’t have the men to enforce it nationwide.

no, it wasn't. some home front soldiers were attached to the blue police unit to help with various things, but enforcement remained in police hands. The MI helped the health ministry conduct epidemiological investigations, and some military technological measures were used to track quarantine breakers. But always the final call was in civilian hands.

The first lockdown saw a really high level of compliance regardless of enforcement, the second saw mass rebellion that even martial law wouldn't have solved.

Ah okay, thanks for the clarification. Yes, compliance was also much higher in our first lockdown than in the second, although the second was far less stringent so the lines between what was and wasn’t illegal were a bit blurry. Rereading your first comment, as far as I’m aware all nonessential businesses have been ordered to close this time around, whilst a 500m rule would not be enforceable because a lot of people don’t have access to a supermarket/chemist within that distance.

You could leave the 500m to shop for essentials as long as you stayed within your municipality. But again it boils down to the good faith of the citizens, it's nearly impossible to enforce a full lockdown by force.

Our second lockdown fell apart as orthodox jews decided to openly defy it to keep their educational institutions closed and the government just did nothing

[Pericles]

It does seem the UK lockdown is slightly looser than New Zealand's level 4 lockdown, though it's close to it. We didn't have takeaways under level 4, and bakeries, butchers and greengrocers could only do contactless delivery, so it was just supermarkets and dairies. Playgrounds even were closed, which I suppose could be a 'pandemic theatre' measure (if the R number of the new variant doesn't go below 1, the measures might just need to get really harsh though). I'm not sure how strict the UK's travel restrictions are. I know we couldn't go to a neighbouring suburb for walks, so had to stay within our own area (except when going to the supermarket or when doing socially distanced check ins on those within our support bubble). Maybe the UK would need to look even further though, Spain seemed to go really hard in their first lockdown. The problem with the UK government's approach is they've always been more afraid of the risks of their actions than the risks of inaction and so dithered. Just play it safe for once and take precautionary measures that might be unnecessary rather than again regretting it after tens of thousands of lives have been lost.

[Alcibiades]

It does seem the UK lockdown is slightly looser than New Zealand's level 4 lockdown, though it's close to it. We didn't have takeaways under level 4, and bakeries, butchers and greengrocers could only do contactless delivery, so it was just supermarkets and dairies. Playgrounds even were closed, which I suppose could be a 'pandemic theatre' measure (if the R number of the new variant doesn't go below 1, the measures might just need to get really harsh though). I'm not sure how strict the UK's travel restrictions are. I know we couldn't go to a neighbouring suburb for walks, so had to stay within our own area (except when going to the supermarket or when doing socially distanced check ins on those within our support bubble). Maybe the UK would need to look even further though, Spain seemed to go really hard in their first lockdown. The problem with the UK government's approach is they've always been more afraid of the risks of their actions than the risks of inaction and so dithered. Just play it safe for once and take precautionary measures that might be unnecessary rather than again regretting it after tens of thousands of lives have been lost.

It’s hard to thing of many more meaningful measures that could be taken to make the lockdown harsher, and I haven’t seen anyone suggesting it isn’t restrictive enough. For now, I don’t think there’s any reason to think that this won’t have a real impact on driving cases down to a level manageable for the health service.

[Former President tack50]

With schools and universities now shut for the foreseeable future, it’s difficult to see how the restrictions can practically be made stricter, short of ‘well if we self-nuked the country then that would prevent anymore COVID-related deaths’.

There is alwats the Spanish option of "basically home arrest in all but name" but I doubt the political capital is there to pull it off

Even here in Spain it is iffy though there have been some calls to do it in certain regions

[NewYorkExpress]

Boris Johnson said that Scotland wouldn't get the COVID vaccine if the SNP had it's way.

Boris Johnson has taken a swipe at the Scottish National party by claiming that there would not have been a single Covid-19 vaccine in Scotland if it were up to Nicola Sturgeon’s party, the Guardian understands.

Addressing a virtual meeting of the 1922 Committee of backbench Conservative MPs on Tuesday evening before Wednesday’s Commons vote on the third national lockdown in England, the prime minister highlighted the threat of the new Covid variant, but is also said to have criticised Scotland’s ruling party.

Johnson tackled a series of questions from backbenchers on the Zoom call, including one from a Scottish Tory MP about the SNP, the answer to which took aim at the pro-independence party.

The prime minister is understood to have said that the strength of the union lay in what could be done for people across the UK, claiming that if it were up to the SNP, no coronavirus vaccines would have been delivered in Scotland.

One MP who attended the virtual meeting said: “Essentially, the point the prime minister was making is that the UK is a major country, we’ve got sufficient clout to get the vaccines rolled out. He did actually mention that we were ahead of the rest of Europe.

“He said if it were up to the SNP, then there wouldn’t have been a single vaccine delivered in Scotland. It was a UK effort, in other words, and needed the clout of a big government.”

[CumbrianLefty]

More tone deafness from him, then.

[EastAnglianLefty]

With schools and universities now shut for the foreseeable future, it’s difficult to see how the restrictions can practically be made stricter, short of ‘well if we self-nuked the country then that would prevent anymore COVID-related deaths’.

Shutting the construction sector would likely make a difference. In addition, there are probably some businesses still making staff come in which could plausibly shift to WFH, but it's not something that would make a huge difference. One thing that is worth considering is the shift from the first lockdown, where people went beyond what the guidance called for in terms of distancing and not doing activities, to the current situation where people are sticking to the letter or as much less as they feel is reasonable.

[CumbrianLefty]

Except that many schools aren't really shut at all.......

[Pericles]

After another record-breaking daily death toll, the total deaths in the UK may already be over 100,000. This is going by all deaths where Covid is listed on the death certificate, rather than the official measurement of deaths within 28 days of a positive Covid test. It's a sad result and the government has clearly failed massively.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/13/uk-coronavirus-deaths-pass-100000

[Angel of Death]

I guess "Scottish Nationalist Party" is to Conservatives what "Democrat Party" is to Republicans.

[Alcibiades]

Cases now pretty clearly on the decline. Deaths as ever remain a lagging indicator, so sadly they may continue to rise in the coming days. But the good news is we should be in a much better position by February.

For all that the government has done wrong, credit where credit’s due that they seem to be handling the vaccine rollout pretty well, and are on track to meet the target of all over-70s and clinically vulnerable people jabbed by mid-February.

[Conservatopia]

I guess "Scottish Nationalist Party" is to Conservatives what "Democrat Party" is to Republicans.

Correct.  Both are a bit silly in my opinion but both achieve their desired reaction.

[Alcibiades]

I guess "Scottish Nationalist Party" is to Conservatives what "Democrat Party" is to Republicans.

Correct.  Both are a bit silly in my opinion but both achieve their desired reaction.

The SNP one actually makes sense by linking them to a generally right-wing ideology. The ‘Democrat Party’ thing is just totally inane.

[CumbrianLefty]

I guess "Scottish Nationalist Party" is to Conservatives what "Democrat Party" is to Republicans.

Correct.  Both are a bit silly in my opinion but both achieve their desired reaction.

The SNP one actually makes sense by linking them to a generally right-wing ideology. The ‘Democrat Party’ thing is just totally inane.

Almost as if being a "democrat" is a *bad* thing? Come to think of it, given recent events......

[Conservatopia]

I guess "Scottish Nationalist Party" is to Conservatives what "Democrat Party" is to Republicans.

Correct.  Both are a bit silly in my opinion but both achieve their desired reaction.

The SNP one actually makes sense by linking them to a generally right-wing ideology. The ‘Democrat Party’ thing is just totally inane.

The Democrat one is just petty trolling.
The SNP one smacks of a Tory Brain idea to discredit the SNP and/or make them seem hypocritical.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I guess "Scottish Nationalist Party" is to Conservatives what "Democrat Party" is to Republicans.

Correct.  Both are a bit silly in my opinion but both achieve their desired reaction.

The SNP one actually makes sense by linking them to a generally right-wing ideology. The ‘Democrat Party’ thing is just totally inane.

Almost as if being a "democrat" is a *bad* thing? Come to think of it, given recent events......

Republicans don't like even the mere semantic link between Democratic Party and the connatations of 'democratic', so they say 'Democrat' instead.
Conservatopia is right that it's petty trolling.

[CumbrianLefty]

Yes, but I don't even see how that makes any difference! That's how silly it actually is.

[afleitch]

'Nationalists' are those Scots Nats, Welsh speakers and Northern Irish Catholics.

British Nationalists are Unionists. Flag waving, anti-Europeanism and British exceptionalism isn't called Nationalism because Nationalism is bad/divisive/the other lot. And Britishness imposed outside and within Britain isn't allowed to ever be considered an expression of 'bad Nationalism'.

[Former President tack50]

'Nationalists' are those Scots Nats, Welsh speakers and Northern Irish Catholics.

British Nationalists are Unionists. Flag waving, anti-Europeanism and British exceptionalism isn't called Nationalism because Nationalism is bad/divisive/the other lot. And Britishness imposed outside and within Britain isn't allowed to ever be considered an expression of 'bad Nationalism'.

Catalonia/Basque Country called, they want their talking points back

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Yes, but I don't even see how that makes any difference! That's how silly it actually is.

Was just clarifying that Republicans saying 'Democrat Party' did not stem from or is linked to anti-democratic attitudes in any real way, but rather feelings the D party doesn't deserve its name.

[CumbrianLefty]

That really is astonishingly petty, fair play.

[Conservatopia]

I also feel that the whole 'Democrat Party' thing has turned into a bit of a shibboleth on the American online right.  Like "wow look at me owning the libs with my poor grammar!"  #LiberalTears

I'm sure saying that Trump got "75 million" votes (as opposed to 74m) will be the next right-wing shibboleth in the US.

And I hate the SNP and the whole idea of Scottirsh independence more than anybody but thinking that saying "Scottish Nationalist Party" will hurt them is rather Dom dumb.

[Pericles]

I just realized what Boris did with the cycling is pretty similar to what our Health Minister was forced to resign for. Except he went 20km and it was mountain biking. Still, politicians shouldn't be bending or breaking the rules that they're setting for everyone else.

[Blair]

I just realized what Boris did with the cycling is pretty similar to what our Health Minister was forced to resign for. Except he went 20km and it was mountain biking. Still, politicians shouldn't be bending or breaking the rules that they're setting for everyone else.

My deeply unpopular view was that he wasn't actually breaking the rules; the Government has kept the guidance vague & even then it's still only 'guidance' (something the police don't understand)

Assuming that he didn't stop it wasn't a huge breach... but obviously should have been setting an example about staying at home

[CumbrianLefty]

Notoriously, certain police forces have tried to get people on "breaking the spirit of the rules".