Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[Alben Barkley]

After this and "war criminal" remarks, I really can't imagine how he'd stand next to Putin at the G20 summit later this years or the ASEAN summit.

He should stand next to him and then kick him in his right leg. Many of us are curious and would like to find certain things out.

He should do what he said he'd do to Trump: Take him behind the locker room and beat the hell out of him!

[Helsinkian]

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1511002899106648066

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1511002899106648066

The Russian population was made to believe that Putin is essentially Lt. Aldo Raine from Inglourious Basterds while in reality he's Bruno Ganz in Downfall.

[Storr]

This kind of trash journalism why people make fun of "the left" and "liberals".

https://twitter.com/arawnsley/status/1510743893830246407?s=20&t=FoVJDN6x2tuW...

[Alben Barkley]

This kind of trash journalism why people make fun of "the left" and "liberals".

https://twitter.com/arawnsley/status/1510743893830246407?s=20&t=FoVJDN6x2tuW...

WTF is this? I'd expect to see that crap from Jacobin or The Intercept, but The New Republic?

Should go without saying, but even if somehow that image was fake because "OMG the satellite maker is part of the MiLLiTaRy InDUStRiAL CoMpLEx!!!" or whatever, how about the countless photos and videos from right on the ground?

Utterly asinine to even waste time talking about this crap.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Did the events in Ukraine bring any immediacy to this visit?

[Storr]

Many of the photographs from Bucha show bodies clearly in an advanced state of decomposition (at least 2 weeks since death). If this is the best explanation the Russians can give, they're guilty as sin. (Though, it's not as if we did not already know that.)

https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1510640340130320393?s=20&t=9_HQgz2v...

It's been a day and this lie has already been disproven.

Edit: The irony of satellites disproving lies about war crimes of the successor state to the nation that created the first artificial satellite, just dawned on me.   

https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/1511075386951671821?s=20&t=kaKV_8JWlQAM...

[sting in the rafters]

Q    What are you going to do about it, sir?  Are you going to do more sanctions on Russia?
THE PRESIDENT:  I’m seeking more sanctions, yes.  I’ll have time to announce that to you.
Q    What kind of sanctions, Mr. President?  What are you thinking?
THE PRESIDENT:  I’ll let you know.

Jake Sullivan, the US national security adviser, told reporters: “The information from Bucha appears to show further evidence of war crimes. And as the president said, we will work with the world to ensure there is full accountability for these crimes. We are also working intensively with our European allies on further sanctions to raise the pressure and raise the cost on Putin and on Russia.”

Asked why Biden declined to use the term genocide, Sullivan said: “We have seen atrocities, we have seen war crimes. We have not seen a level of systemic depravation of life” that constitutes genocide.

They're staying steely. Biden's learned from Syria not to make any statements the US can't make good on. Some thoughts though: if this isn't an act of genocide, what is? And what's the point of having a tribunal when most Ukrainians are already justifiably out to smoke a Russian on sight?

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://mobile.twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1511035183650295812

https://mobile.twitter.com/AFP/status/1511039450855452677

https://mobile.twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1511088094728048649

Okay, mini-Putin, give us your best shot.

[Alben Barkley]

https://mobile.twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1511035183650295812

https://mobile.twitter.com/AFP/status/1511039450855452677

https://mobile.twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1511088094728048649

Okay, mini-Putin, give us your best shot.

Mini-Putin lol. Now I can't stop thinking about Putin and Medvedev doing this:

[WMS]

I wonder if all the hideous people online in India and China and South Africa and Serbia and Kenya and Brazil and yes in the United States and other countries too who have been engaging in whataboutism and “both sides” and ‘but muh revolutionary support from the Soviet Union’ have enough self-awareness to feel deeply ashamed by now?

I wouldn’t count on it. They are probably doubling down instead. These are dark dark times. Elections in Hungary and Serbia were disasterous. We should all fear the french election.

There are a lot of places sparks could ignite from this confrontation. I’m fully expecting something to erupt in Bosnia this year or maybe the next. Depends on what happens in Ukraine.

[WMS]

Based Biden.

https://twitter.com/axios/status/1510996562394103808

I'm all for. once Bush faces them over Iraq.

I hate Bush as much as anyone but piss off with the false equivalence 🤬

> Russia has done more in Ukraine in 6 weeks than Bush did in Iraq in 6 years and that was with Bush actually being able to take Iraq over.

> There was actually a good reason to invade Iraq but instead Bush lied about the causus belli. I originally favored it and still do in principle, but the corruption and incompetence quickly illustrated that it was a failed operation. Bush and members of his administration should be held responsible for the negligence and fraud that they committed and the unnecessary mercurial violence they encouraged in regards to Iraq.

> The only reason Russia invaded Ukraine was because they wanted  back the territory they lost during the dissolution of the USSR.

> Let's talk about the here and now instead of someone else kind of doing the same thing and getting away with it.
 

That argument would have had more credibility outside the west if it was actually talked about rather than swept under the rug with "whataboutery" being one of the things keeping it in the public conciousness.

In this thread, the issue has been raised and the differences pointed out repeatedly by multiple people. The ones bringing it up both in this thread and in other places are doing it to try and score cheap political points against the West in general and the U.S. in particular while dodging answering any of the questions posed by their tepid to nonexistent support of Ukraine. They’re not interested in an honest examination of the issue, but in using “what about Iraq/Afghanistan” as a deflection from their morally bankrupt stance.

[Alben Barkley]

Based Biden.

https://twitter.com/axios/status/1510996562394103808

I'm all for. once Bush faces them over Iraq.

I hate Bush as much as anyone but piss off with the false equivalence 🤬

> Russia has done more in Ukraine in 6 weeks than Bush did in Iraq in 6 years and that was with Bush actually being able to take Iraq over.

> There was actually a good reason to invade Iraq but instead Bush lied about the causus belli. I originally favored it and still do in principle, but the corruption and incompetence quickly illustrated that it was a failed operation. Bush and members of his administration should be held responsible for the negligence and fraud that they committed and the unnecessary mercurial violence they encouraged in regards to Iraq.

> The only reason Russia invaded Ukraine was because they wanted  back the territory they lost during the dissolution of the USSR.

> Let's talk about the here and now instead of someone else kind of doing the same thing and getting away with it.
 

That argument would have had more credibility outside the west if it was actually talked about rather than swept under the rug with "whataboutery" being one of the things keeping it in the public conciousness.

In this thread, the issue has been raised and the differences pointed out repeatedly by multiple people. The ones bringing it up both in this thread and in other places are doing it to try and score cheap political points against the West in general and the U.S. in particular while dodging answering any of the questions posed by their tepid to nonexistent support of Ukraine. They’re not interested in an honest examination of the issue, but in using “what about Iraq/Afghanistan” as a deflection from their morally bankrupt stance.

You my friend are incredibly based.

[GoTfan]

Based Biden.

https://twitter.com/axios/status/1510996562394103808

I'm all for. once Bush faces them over Iraq.

I hate Bush as much as anyone but piss off with the false equivalence 🤬

> Russia has done more in Ukraine in 6 weeks than Bush did in Iraq in 6 years and that was with Bush actually being able to take Iraq over.

> There was actually a good reason to invade Iraq but instead Bush lied about the causus belli. I originally favored it and still do in principle, but the corruption and incompetence quickly illustrated that it was a failed operation. Bush and members of his administration should be held responsible for the negligence and fraud that they committed and the unnecessary mercurial violence they encouraged in regards to Iraq.

> The only reason Russia invaded Ukraine was because they wanted  back the territory they lost during the dissolution of the USSR.

> Let's talk about the here and now instead of someone else kind of doing the same thing and getting away with it.
 

That argument would have had more credibility outside the west if it was actually talked about rather than swept under the rug with "whataboutery" being one of the things keeping it in the public conciousness.

In this thread, the issue has been raised and the differences pointed out repeatedly by multiple people. The ones bringing it up both in this thread and in other places are doing it to try and score cheap political points against the West in general and the U.S. in particular while dodging answering any of the questions posed by their tepid to nonexistent support of Ukraine. They’re not interested in an honest examination of the issue, but in using “what about Iraq/Afghanistan” as a deflection from their morally bankrupt stance.

A discussion on what was done in Iraq and Afghanistan is long overdue.

However, could we perhaps put a pin in it for now?

[Frodo]

In this alternate reality, it is almost as if Russia was invaded, and not Ukraine:

Bristling Against the West, China Rallies Domestic Sympathy for Russia

Reading this article, and then the one posted around mid-March by ugabug, it seems clear that China has chosen to put all its eggs in the Russian basket:

Here's a interesting article from a Chinese professor that's been translated about the possible impacts from the war from a Chinese perspective.

https://uscnpm.org/2022/03/12/hu-wei-russia-ukraine-war-china-choice/

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

It would be nice if the D.C. circuit could start treating the breathless announcements about imminent arms shipments with a little more skepticism. Most of the big ones announced by anonymous/Pentagon officials have been proven false, but not before plaudits have been delivered to various politicians and the natsec blob.

https://www.twitter.com/shashj/status/1510994995217637388
I do think Ukraine will eventually get some Eastern European tanks: partly because they are now getting armoured fighting vehicles and partly because delivery artillery is being planned (according to more credible sources/figures). It probably won’t have much to do with the Pentagon, though.

[WMS]

Based Biden.

https://twitter.com/axios/status/1510996562394103808

I'm all for. once Bush faces them over Iraq.

I hate Bush as much as anyone but piss off with the false equivalence 🤬

> Russia has done more in Ukraine in 6 weeks than Bush did in Iraq in 6 years and that was with Bush actually being able to take Iraq over.

> There was actually a good reason to invade Iraq but instead Bush lied about the causus belli. I originally favored it and still do in principle, but the corruption and incompetence quickly illustrated that it was a failed operation. Bush and members of his administration should be held responsible for the negligence and fraud that they committed and the unnecessary mercurial violence they encouraged in regards to Iraq.

> The only reason Russia invaded Ukraine was because they wanted  back the territory they lost during the dissolution of the USSR.

> Let's talk about the here and now instead of someone else kind of doing the same thing and getting away with it.
 

That argument would have had more credibility outside the west if it was actually talked about rather than swept under the rug with "whataboutery" being one of the things keeping it in the public conciousness.

In this thread, the issue has been raised and the differences pointed out repeatedly by multiple people. The ones bringing it up both in this thread and in other places are doing it to try and score cheap political points against the West in general and the U.S. in particular while dodging answering any of the questions posed by their tepid to nonexistent support of Ukraine. They’re not interested in an honest examination of the issue, but in using “what about Iraq/Afghanistan” as a deflection from their morally bankrupt stance.

You my friend are incredibly based.

First time I’ve ever been called that

[WMS]

Based Biden.

https://twitter.com/axios/status/1510996562394103808

I'm all for. once Bush faces them over Iraq.

I hate Bush as much as anyone but piss off with the false equivalence 🤬

> Russia has done more in Ukraine in 6 weeks than Bush did in Iraq in 6 years and that was with Bush actually being able to take Iraq over.

> There was actually a good reason to invade Iraq but instead Bush lied about the causus belli. I originally favored it and still do in principle, but the corruption and incompetence quickly illustrated that it was a failed operation. Bush and members of his administration should be held responsible for the negligence and fraud that they committed and the unnecessary mercurial violence they encouraged in regards to Iraq.

> The only reason Russia invaded Ukraine was because they wanted  back the territory they lost during the dissolution of the USSR.

> Let's talk about the here and now instead of someone else kind of doing the same thing and getting away with it.
 

That argument would have had more credibility outside the west if it was actually talked about rather than swept under the rug with "whataboutery" being one of the things keeping it in the public conciousness.

In this thread, the issue has been raised and the differences pointed out repeatedly by multiple people. The ones bringing it up both in this thread and in other places are doing it to try and score cheap political points against the West in general and the U.S. in particular while dodging answering any of the questions posed by their tepid to nonexistent support of Ukraine. They’re not interested in an honest examination of the issue, but in using “what about Iraq/Afghanistan” as a deflection from their morally bankrupt stance.

A discussion on what was done in Iraq and Afghanistan is long overdue.

However, could we perhaps put a pin in it for now?

Sure. If y’all will stop bringing it up.

[NOVA Green]

Despite all of the attention focused on Bucha, we are starting to see information come in from other places under Russian Occupation that are now liberated.

This is just a fragment, but the article talks about what effectively amounted to torture of civilians in Russian custody, investigations of a mass grave of six nearby, a wounded member of the territorial defense who has disappeared after being held in Russian custody, etc...

It's a decent length article and well worth a read for anybody interested who has a subscription or hasn't used up their monthly freebies yet.

Badly frightened and hungry, residents of Nova Basan, a town east of Kyiv, emerged from their cottages and farmhouses on Monday, and described living through the terrifying ordeal of the Russian occupation — detentions, threats and a strict curfew that confined them to their homes with no outside communication for more than a month.

Nova Basan, about 60 miles east of the Ukrainian capital, is one of a stretch of towns and villages retaken from Russian control after battles through the last week of March, and just now coming back to life.

“It was terrible,” said Mykola Dyachenko, the official responsible for the administration of the town and surrounding villages. “People were not expecting such things.” He said he was among some 20 men who were held prisoner by Russian troops for 25 days during the occupation.

He looked exhausted, his face waxy and pale. He said he had been put through what he called a mock execution 15 times while being questioned about local Ukrainian territorial defense forces and ammunition stored in the area.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/04/world/europe/ukraine-nova-basan-russia.html

[It’s so Joever]

I wonder if all the hideous people online in India and China and South Africa and Serbia and Kenya and Brazil and yes in the United States and other countries too who have been engaging in whataboutism and “both sides” and ‘but muh revolutionary support from the Soviet Union’ have enough self-awareness to feel deeply ashamed by now?

I wouldn’t count on it. They are probably doubling down instead. These are dark dark times. Elections in Hungary and Serbia were disasterous. We should all fear the french election.

There are a lot of places sparks could ignite from this confrontation. I’m fully expecting something to erupt in Bosnia this year or maybe the next. Depends on what happens in Ukraine.

F**k you better be f**king wrong.

[WMS]

I wonder if all the hideous people online in India and China and South Africa and Serbia and Kenya and Brazil and yes in the United States and other countries too who have been engaging in whataboutism and “both sides” and ‘but muh revolutionary support from the Soviet Union’ have enough self-awareness to feel deeply ashamed by now?

I wouldn’t count on it. They are probably doubling down instead. These are dark dark times. Elections in Hungary and Serbia were disasterous. We should all fear the french election.

There are a lot of places sparks could ignite from this confrontation. I’m fully expecting something to erupt in Bosnia this year or maybe the next. Depends on what happens in Ukraine.

F**k you better be f**king wrong.

I hope I am wrong. I don’t expect to be, because the Bosnian Serbs seem determined to light the kindling.

[dead0man]

[Alben Barkley]

Despite all of the attention focused on Bucha, we are starting to see information come in from other places under Russian Occupation that are now liberated.

This is just a fragment, but the article talks about what effectively amounted to torture of civilians in Russian custody, investigations of a mass grave of six nearby, a wounded member of the territorial defense who has disappeared after being held in Russian custody, etc...

It's a decent length article and well worth a read for anybody interested who has a subscription or hasn't used up their monthly freebies yet.

Badly frightened and hungry, residents of Nova Basan, a town east of Kyiv, emerged from their cottages and farmhouses on Monday, and described living through the terrifying ordeal of the Russian occupation — detentions, threats and a strict curfew that confined them to their homes with no outside communication for more than a month.

Nova Basan, about 60 miles east of the Ukrainian capital, is one of a stretch of towns and villages retaken from Russian control after battles through the last week of March, and just now coming back to life.

“It was terrible,” said Mykola Dyachenko, the official responsible for the administration of the town and surrounding villages. “People were not expecting such things.” He said he was among some 20 men who were held prisoner by Russian troops for 25 days during the occupation.

He looked exhausted, his face waxy and pale. He said he had been put through what he called a mock execution 15 times while being questioned about local Ukrainian territorial defense forces and ammunition stored in the area.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/04/world/europe/ukraine-nova-basan-russia.html

See now if Russia is doing this EVERYWHERE, not just one isolated and particularly awful massacre (horrific as that alone would be), THAT might constitute the actual definition of genocide.

[2952-0-0]

More genocidal talk. Setting up a justification for crimes which will inevitably be revealed.
https://twitter.com/francska1/status/1510898134481788930

Zelensky and the west need to make it a non-negotiable precondition for any talks, that Russia's state media must immediately stop inciting genocide and threatening other countries. It would be immediately deliverable, and would be a tangible sign of compromise.

[Cashew]

Based Biden.

https://twitter.com/axios/status/1510996562394103808

I'm all for. once Bush faces them over Iraq.

I hate Bush as much as anyone but piss off with the false equivalence 🤬

> Russia has done more in Ukraine in 6 weeks than Bush did in Iraq in 6 years and that was with Bush actually being able to take Iraq over.

> There was actually a good reason to invade Iraq but instead Bush lied about the causus belli. I originally favored it and still do in principle, but the corruption and incompetence quickly illustrated that it was a failed operation. Bush and members of his administration should be held responsible for the negligence and fraud that they committed and the unnecessary mercurial violence they encouraged in regards to Iraq.

> The only reason Russia invaded Ukraine was because they wanted  back the territory they lost during the dissolution of the USSR.

> Let's talk about the here and now instead of someone else kind of doing the same thing and getting away with it.
 

That argument would have had more credibility outside the west if it was actually talked about rather than swept under the rug with "whataboutery" being one of the things keeping it in the public conciousness.

In this thread, the issue has been raised and the differences pointed out repeatedly by multiple people. The ones bringing it up both in this thread and in other places are doing it to try and score cheap political points against the West in general and the U.S. in particular while dodging answering any of the questions posed by their tepid to nonexistent support of Ukraine. They’re not interested in an honest examination of the issue, but in using “what about Iraq/Afghanistan” as a deflection from their morally bankrupt stance.

I am supre that you could question the motives of many brining that up, and I am well aware that every situtation is different, that doesn't change that for some people there is never a right time to bring this up.

More importantly though, assuming this somehow ends in Putin facing a war crimes tribunal it will not be an outright victory of international law like many in the west hope for, but also as the stronger lawless West forcing a weaker lawless Russia to break, aka might makes right. By exempting itself from it's own self professed principles and judgement manded down upon other is inevitably tainted as a victor's justice regardless of how well deserved the consequences were, incentivizing efforts across the global south to reduce western leverage over their economies.