Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[Upper Canada Tory]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/jewish-group-demands-apology-after-mps-honoured-man-who-fought-for-nazis-1.6575593
Might as well post here, seems the entire Canadian parliament stood up and clapped for a possible Nazi collaborator from Ukraine who now lives in Canada.

I am firmly in support of Ukraine and as things stand I'm on fully board with continuing to fund them for at least another couple years. If there is one thing that would make me get tired of them, it would be pushing literal Nazis on us and expecting us to cheer for them. It's one thing to overlook groups like Azov recognizing that they are a tiny, tiny fraction of the Ukrainian resistance and that focusing overly on them creates a sort of tempest in a teapot. It is a very different matter to haul out actual WW2 Waffen SS troopers and expect us to mindlessly cheer them on. I'm not sure whether it was Zelensky or Trudeau or some shlt-for-brains MP who ginned this up, but whoever did has some serious apologizing to do. This is madness. And furthermore, shlt like this just legitimizes nonsensical Russian propaganda (nonsensical because Russia is crawling with Nazis itself).

This has nothing to do with Ukraine promoting Nazis itself. In fact, Zelensky has condemned the military formation Yaroslav Hunka was a part of, known as SS-Galicia.

This more likely has to do with the ignorance and historical illiteracy of Canadian parliamentarians and possibly the Canadian public as a whole. Disgusting that this took place in my own country's legislative chamber.

https://forward.com/fast-forward/561927/zelenskyy-joins-canadian-parliaments-ovation-to-98-year-old-veteran-who-fought-with-nazis/

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/jewish-group-demands-apology-after-mps-honoured-man-who-fought-for-nazis-1.6575593
Might as well post here, seems the entire Canadian parliament stood up and clapped for a possible Nazi collaborator from Ukraine who now lives in Canada.

I am firmly in support of Ukraine and as things stand I'm on fully board with continuing to fund them for at least another couple years. If there is one thing that would make me get tired of them, it would be pushing literal Nazis on us and expecting us to cheer for them. It's one thing to overlook groups like Azov recognizing that they are a tiny, tiny fraction of the Ukrainian resistance and that focusing overly on them creates a sort of tempest in a teapot. It is a very different matter to haul out actual WW2 Waffen SS troopers and expect us to mindlessly cheer them on. I'm not sure whether it was Zelensky or Trudeau or some shlt-for-brains MP who ginned this up, but whoever did has some serious apologizing to do. This is madness. And furthermore, shlt like this just legitimizes nonsensical Russian propaganda (nonsensical because Russia is crawling with Nazis itself).

This has nothing to do with Ukraine promoting Nazis itself. In fact, Zelensky has condemned the military formation Yaroslav Hunka was a part of, known as SS-Galicia.

This more likely has to do with the ignorance and historical illiteracy of Canadian parliamentarians and possibly the Canadian public as a whole. Disgusting that this took place in my own country's legislative chamber.

https://forward.com/fast-forward/561927/zelenskyy-joins-canadian-parliaments-ovation-to-98-year-old-veteran-who-fought-with-nazis/

Give old APCs to Ukraine instead of sending them to a scrapping company? Nope, but they  can excavate fascist relics.

Trudeau moment.

[jaichind]

https://oopstop.com/ukrainians-refused-to-congratulate-georgian-skaters-on-their-victory-at-the-grand-prix/

"Ukrainians refused to congratulate Georgian skaters on their victory at the Grand Prix"

It seems the "problem" is that the  Georgian skaters were born in and trained in Russia.

[2952-0-0]

Heads should roll at a high level. I'd like to know what happened to allow an SS fighter into parliament, but it wouldn't be good.

The BBC describes Yaroslav Hunka as someone who fought against Russia for Ukraine during WWII

Even for your standards, this is ridiculous. You know full well that neither Russia nor Ukraine existed back then. 1/3 of the Soviet Army were Ukrainians.

I do not care either way.  In terms of WWII history, I am fairly revisionist, and while I still lean toward being more pro-Allies than pro-Axis I am fairly empathetic to the Axis point of view.  Still, this sort of action seems inconsistent with the state values that Trudeau would project.

Yes, I know that if you lived in China in the 1930s, you would have been a proud 漢奸 who gladly spread propaganda about the 大東亞共榮圈. Thanks for confirming with me again! 👍

[YPestis25]

I do not care either way.   In terms of WWII history, I am fairly revisionist, and while I still lean toward being more pro-Allies than pro-Axis I am fairly empathetic to the Axis point of view.  Still, this sort of action seems inconsistent with the state values that Trudeau would project.

I'm sorry, what?

[Hindsight was 2020]

I do not care either way.   In terms of WWII history, I am fairly revisionist, and while I still lean toward being more pro-Allies than pro-Axis I am fairly empathetic to the Axis point of view.  Still, this sort of action seems inconsistent with the state values that Trudeau would project.

I'm sorry, what?

This explains a lot

[jaichind]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/23/us/us-soldiers-ukraine-hospital-germany.html

"U.S. Army Hospital in Germany Is Treating Americans Hurt Fighting in Ukraine"

The Biden administration vowed at the start of the war that it would not put American troops on the ground in Ukraine, and it warned Americans not to get involved. Now it finds itself treating those it told to stay away.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/23/us/us-soldiers-ukraine-hospital-germany.html

"U.S. Army Hospital in Germany Is Treating Americans Hurt Fighting in Ukraine"

The Biden administration vowed at the start of the war that it would not put American troops on the ground in Ukraine, and it warned Americans not to get involved. Now it finds itself treating those it told to stay away.

Nice to see we are looking after our people. Thank you Biden!

[WalterWhite]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/23/us/us-soldiers-ukraine-hospital-germany.html

"U.S. Army Hospital in Germany Is Treating Americans Hurt Fighting in Ukraine"

The Biden administration vowed at the start of the war that it would not put American troops on the ground in Ukraine, and it warned Americans not to get involved. Now it finds itself treating those it told to stay away.

Wounded soldiers getting treated at a hospital? How shocking! How revolutionary! How radical! This has never happened in human history before!

[Hindsight was 2020]

Russia’s retaliation for the Black Sea fleet being hit multiple times is firing a missile at a hotel
https://twitter.com/revishvilig/status/1706076148650696927?s=61&t=ixTjC-FQD4...

[Dr. MB]

I do not care either way.  In terms of WWII history, I am fairly revisionist, and while I still lean toward being more pro-Allies than pro-Axis I am fairly empathetic to the Axis point of view.  Still, this sort of action seems inconsistent with the state values that Trudeau would project.

Do you have any empathy for Japan's occupation of China and mass murder of Chinese civilians?

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Russia’s retaliation for the Black Sea fleet being hit multiple times is firing a missile at a hotel
https://twitter.com/revishvilig/status/1706076148650696927?s=61&t=ixTjC-FQD4...

Aren't a significant amount of the real estate Russia is damaging through actions like this potentially Russian-owned?

[Storr]

https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1705909798108287288?s=20

[Hindsight was 2020]

Russia’s retaliation for the Black Sea fleet being hit multiple times is firing a missile at a hotel
https://twitter.com/revishvilig/status/1706076148650696927?s=61&t=ixTjC-FQD4...

Aren't a significant amount of the real estate Russia is damaging through actions like this potentially Russian-owned?

Yes and they don’t care

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Russia’s retaliation for the Black Sea fleet being hit multiple times is firing a missile at a hotel
https://twitter.com/revishvilig/status/1706076148650696927?s=61&t=ixTjC-FQD4...

Aren't a significant amount of the real estate Russia is damaging through actions like this potentially Russian-owned?

Yes and they don’t care

Guess it must be a benefit from Putin's POV, if it plays into this at all. Humbling the oligarchs...Showing that nothing is secondary to the war effort. (the dinner he gave immediately after taking power comes to mind)
But I doubt Putin (or his commanders, who are actually making those decisions, probably) cares too much about who specifically owns a given building before the orders are given.

[Cashew]

I do not care either way.  In terms of WWII history, I am fairly revisionist, and while I still lean toward being more pro-Allies than pro-Axis I am fairly empathetic to the Axis point of view.  Still, this sort of action seems inconsistent with the state values that Trudeau would project.

Do you have any empathy for Japan's occupation of China and mass murder of Chinese civilians?

Objectionable, but not as much as the people who in future war with China would suddenly pull a 180 and become war crimes apologists for the sake of geopolitics. Probably less as Japan fought directly against the U.S., but as the recent Canadian parliament scandal shows there are far more of them willing to wink wink at that sort of stuff than people would like to admit.

[Alben Barkley]

I just recently learned of the existence of this song, which is based on the Finnish song "Nyet, Molotov!" from the Winter War. I actually searched to see if any similar song about this war existed, and lo and behold there it is!

[Alben Barkley]

In terms of WWII history, I am fairly revisionist, and while I still lean toward being more pro-Allies than pro-Axis I am fairly empathetic to the Axis point of view.

What in the absolute f--k.

People like you should be forced to watch Schindler's List with your eyes pried open, Clockwork Orange style.

There is no "Axis point of view" that is anything other than the brutal murder, rape, enslavement, oppression, and genocide of anyone who stood in the way of their wars of aggression and crimes against humanity (and many who were just caught in the crosshairs), which they thought were justified solely because they were "a superior race." To "empathize" with such a view in any way ironically exposes you as a sociopath incapable of any actual empathy at all.

People like you give me the f--king creeps. Anyone who "both sideses" WW2 should be summarily banned from the forum, frankly. And yeah I would apply this to Trudeau if the idiot is going to praise SS soldiers too. I despise Trudeau, so it's not some kind of "gotcha" to point out that he did something stupid. It certainly does not change anything about the morality of WW2.

And before you ask: No, Finland in the Winter War was not part of the Axis. The Soviets themselves were closer to being part of the Axis at that time, and the Allies in fact attempted to help the Finns. The Continuation War was a different matter, one in which I can empathize with the rock and a hard place situation Finland (which never joined the Axis and ultimately turned on it) was in, but that's an entirely different thing from empathizing with the Axis itself.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I just recently learned of the existence of this song, which is based on the Finnish song "Nyet, Molotov!" from the Winter War. I actually searched to see if any similar song about this war existed, and lo and behold there it is!

All it takes is listening to it once for it to get stuck in your head. (At least the tune)

[Alben Barkley]

I do not care either way.  In terms of WWII history, I am fairly revisionist, and while I still lean toward being more pro-Allies than pro-Axis I am fairly empathetic to the Axis point of view.  Still, this sort of action seems inconsistent with the state values that Trudeau would project.

Do you have any empathy for Japan's occupation of China and mass murder of Chinese civilians?

Objectionable, but not as much as the people who in future war with China would suddenly pull a 180 and become war crimes apologists for the sake of geopolitics. Probably less as Japan fought directly against the U.S., but as the recent Canadian parliament scandal shows there are far more of them willing to wink wink at that sort of stuff than people would like to admit.

The mass murder of 30 million people -- men, women, and children -- is merely "objectionable" to you, with a but?

The practice of throwing babies in the air and catching them with bayonets you would describe as just "objectionable?"

The practice of forcing parents at gunpoint to rape their own daughters before killing them all is just "objectionable?"

The practice of sexually enslaving countless women in occupied Korea and other lands as "comfort women" is just "objectionable?"

The horrifying experimentation on human beings that killed 300,000 in brutal ways by Unit 731, that's also just "objectionable?"

Crimes so sickening a literal Nazi, John Rabe, had to intervene to try to stop it out of disgust are just "objectionable?"

And none of this nearly as bad as imaginary war crimes you attribute to imaginary people in an imaginary future which they imaginarily justify for imaginary reasons?

deleted

[WalterWhite]

Russian government: "We ArE vErY cOnCeRnEd AbOuT nEo-NaZiS iN tHe UkRaInIaN gOvErNmEnT."

Meanwhile people defending Russia's invasion of Ukraine:

In terms of WWII history, I am fairly revisionist, and while I still lean toward being more pro-Allies than pro-Axis. I am fairly empathetic to the Axis point of view.

[Storr]

I just recently learned of the existence of this song, which is based on the Finnish song "Nyet, Molotov!" from the Winter War. I actually searched to see if any similar song about this war existed, and lo and behold there it is!

Relatedly, below. In many ways the Russia of today is stuck in the past:

https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1706075961945399702?s=20

[Cashew]

I do not care either way.  In terms of WWII history, I am fairly revisionist, and while I still lean toward being more pro-Allies than pro-Axis I am fairly empathetic to the Axis point of view.  Still, this sort of action seems inconsistent with the state values that Trudeau would project.

Do you have any empathy for Japan's occupation of China and mass murder of Chinese civilians?

Objectionable, but not as much as the people who in future war with China would suddenly pull a 180 and become war crimes apologists for the sake of geopolitics. Probably less as Japan fought directly against the U.S., but as the recent Canadian parliament scandal shows there are far more of them willing to wink wink at that sort of stuff than people would like to admit.

The mass murder of 30 million people -- men, women, and children -- is merely "objectionable" to you, with a but?

The practice of throwing babies in the air and catching them with bayonets you would describe as just "objectionable?"

The practice of forcing parents at gunpoint to rape their own daughters before killing them all is just "objectionable?"

Crimes so sickening a literal Nazi, John Rabe, had to intervene to try to stop it out of disgust are just "objectionable?"

And none of this nearly as bad as imaginary war crimes you attribute to an imaginary future imaginarily justified by imaginary people?

deleted

A fanatic can repent of their sins and be just as fanatical in seeking to atome for them. An opportunist on the other hand can never be persuaded that they joined the wrong side in commiting atrocities because they were never right to beign with, simply wearing a mask to fit popular opinion of the time. Pretty self evident to anybody who was reading my post in good faith.

Seeing as though you did not read it in good faith I have to ask did you have to ask, did you have a bad day at work that you feel the need to vent for online? Whatever the case it's certainly no excuse for foaming at the mouth like some rabid animal.

[pppolitics]

Russia’s retaliation for the Black Sea fleet being hit multiple times is firing a missile at a hotel
https://twitter.com/revishvilig/status/1706076148650696927?s=61&t=ixTjC-FQD4...

Clearly, this hotel must be Ukraine's Black Sea Fleet Headquarters /s

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I do not care either way.  In terms of WWII history, I am fairly revisionist, and while I still lean toward being more pro-Allies than pro-Axis I am fairly empathetic to the Axis point of view.  Still, this sort of action seems inconsistent with the state values that Trudeau would project.

You are a vile specimen who is not worthy to lick the gum off Dwight D. Eisenhower's shoe.