Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[Antonio the Sixth]

What I read here makes me angry and sad at the same time. I do not know why you can not understand that the strategy of "not to provoke Russia" does not work. This strategy does not work at all, because it does not need to be provoked. If Putin decides to start a nuclear war, he will start it, regardless of whether you impose a no-fly zone, whether you provide Ukraine with fighters, or whether you provide Ukraine with tanks. In addition, no one is asking about the NFZ or NATO soldiers here. Nobody asks for it. Is it so difficult for you to provide fighter jets to Ukraine? Here's what you need. Is it so hard for you to do that? I am annoyed when some "experts" say that Ukraine does not need fighter jets, but Stinger instead. Ukraine knows better what it needs. Help Ukraine defeat Russia, because if Ukraine does not survive, you will be next. Ukraine is now fighting for the opportunity to exist as such, the opportunity to live freely on their land and a bright future for their children. But in addition, Ukraine is also fighting for values ​​and for your security. This is not just our war.

The West turned a blind eye to Russia's war crimes in Chechnya and continued to trade with it. The West turned a blind eye to the killings of oppositionists in Russia - and continued to trade with it. The West turned a blind eye to Russia's war in Georgia - and continued to trade with it. The West turned a blind eye to Russia's annexation of Crimea and the occupation of Donbass - and continued to trade with it. Yes, the West has now imposed unprecedented sanctions, but they are not enough. They are not enough to stop Russia - and you continue to trade with it. While Minister Lindner is worried that the "welfare of the people of Germany" will be affected, civilians are being killed in Ukraine.

Do you know that I will never forget? I will not forget the voice of a 5-year-old child who said, "Mom, why am I in so much pain? I behaved well" - and died in her mother's arms. I will never forget the raped girls aged 10-15 who were raped in front of the public. You can talk about it for a long time. And now I do not want to list all the war crimes of the Russian military. I just want to convey that by buying Russian energy, Western countries are financing the genocide of Ukrainians.

You can't imagine how hurt we are when another Western politician says, "We need to keep trading with Russia," or "both sides are to blame." You can't imagine how it hurts us when we are once again denied a certain type of weapon, which we really need. We have always felt part of Europe, we have always wanted to be with Europe. But now, for many Western politicians, Russian money is more expensive than the lives of tens of thousands of Ukrainians.

And lastly, the argument "Ukraine cannot be supported [in some way], because it will provoke a nuclear war - is absolutely immoral, because you are declaring the right of nuclear-weapon states to destroy other nations, to destroy other countries. There must be a limit to everything."

And as a girl from Mariupol said: "It's scary - it's not when you're afraid of nuclear war, it's scary - it's when you don't know how to explain to your younger brother, who is swollen with hunger, why his mother will never speak again."

P.S. I wrote using Google Translator, because I did not have time to write the text in English. Therefore, there may be errors in the wording of sentences

Really glad to hear from you, Andriy. I can't imagine what you're going through, and I'm dismayed that my country (and all of Europe, and the West, and really all democracies worldwide) aren't doing everything in their power to help. I just hope you know that many of us here know that you're fighting for all of us, and want to support you however we can.

Please take care of yourself, as much as you can.

[Antonio the Sixth]

4. Why the f--- should the US look to increase combat operations when we're already broke?

This is the American version of a Russian devushka crying about the end of Instagram while Ukrainians die.

Yeah, there are valid arguments against direct military involvement, but this is just plain disgusting. Frankly, any person who thinks like this is unworthy of living in a free society.

[Storr]

It's crazy how people don't like their cities being occupied by a foreign army. There's no way the Russians could have seen this coming.

https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1510617143024533504?s=20&t=V6yV1y...

https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1510621640853495809?s=20&t=V6yV1y...

[sting in the rafters]

Yeah, there are valid arguments against direct military involvement, but this is just plain disgusting. Frankly, any person who thinks like this is unworthy of living in a free society.

Who's saying the Western response should be nothing? Sending weapons, food, and humanitarian aid is nothing? Sure, send them missiles. Get them planes, tanks. There's plenty we can do w/o directly getting involved.

For the record, I've never claimed to be a morally upstanding person.  I'm just wondering didn't we do s--- ab Rwanda then? or Darfur? Or Syria? Or Pyongyang? Why does this money-pit demand direct intervention when the last several great atrocities of the 21st century didnt?

snip

 
Good luck to you and your family broski. Right now you're drowning in the shark-filled waters. We'll give you the life raft and the harpoon gun, but there ain't nobody who wants to jump in there with you.

[Karpatsky]

-

I am so sorry that the west has failed you. Even if the best were to happen from now on it will always be a stain on an entire generation of us that we could have prevented all this and decided not to. I know it isn't any consolation for the things that have happened but some of us will do our best to help you and always will. I hope someday I can go back to a peaceful and victorious Ukraine and we can help make up for our mistakes. Героям слава, вічна пам'ять.

[lfromnj]

As several posters above have said - it’s understandable to be absolutely enraged by this - I’d be more worried if you weren’t (*cough* compucomp). I’ll confess where there are some days I want NATO planes to fly over the border and destroy as much Russian equipment in UA as possible. But in the current world order, that’s just not an adult or acceptable move. Escalation is a dangerous game, and not one the West is willing to play with Putin.

Post removed by moderator.

As I told the other person here, I just want you to know that you are an immoral person. The atrocities of the Russian army in Ukraine are worse than the atrocities of the Nazis in World War II (even eyewitnesses of both wars say so). And, by the way, at least 409, not 20, civilians were killed only in Bucha. I am already silent about Mariupol, where at least 5,000 people died

Millions of people were killed in WW2, including in Ukraine, anyone who says what the Russians have done is worse than the Nazi's is just pure propaganda or they were part of a family that worked with the Nazi's like Bandera..  Most of  us can agree the Russians are clearly heading down a very dangerous path similar to the Holodomor but to actually say they are already worse than the Nazi's ignores the most evil regime other than maybe the Khmer Rouge in history. I truly am sorry for what you had to see, and may the people who did that burn in hell but let's not downplay what the Nazis did.


https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1510615156887371784

I don't think these people would still be alive if the Russians were worse than the Nazis

[Storr]

This doesn't mean all these people are being murdered, but that certainly is an alarming number of people needing to be buried in a short period of time.

https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1510544022951329795?s=20&t=V6yV1ylGufhqVQ...

https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1510546399842422787?s=20&t=V6yV1ylGufhqVQ...

[😥]

As several posters above have said - it’s understandable to be absolutely enraged by this - I’d be more worried if you weren’t (*cough* compucomp). I’ll confess where there are some days I want NATO planes to fly over the border and destroy as much Russian equipment in UA as possible. But in the current world order, that’s just not an adult or acceptable move. Escalation is a dangerous game, and not one the West is willing to play with Putin.

Post removed by moderator.

As I told the other person here, I just want you to know that you are an immoral person. The atrocities of the Russian army in Ukraine are worse than the atrocities of the Nazis in World War II (even eyewitnesses of both wars say so). And, by the way, at least 409, not 20, civilians were killed only in Bucha. I am already silent about Mariupol, where at least 5,000 people died

Millions of people were killed in WW2, including in Ukraine, anyone who says what the Russians have done is worse than the Nazi's is just pure propaganda or they were part of a family that worked with the Nazi's like Bandera..  Most of  us can agree the Russians are clearly heading down a very dangerous path similar to the Holodomor but to actually say they are already worse than the Nazi's ignores the most evil regime other than maybe the Khmer Rouge in history. I truly am sorry for what you had to see, and may the people who did that burn in hell but let's not downplay what the Nazis did.


https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1510615156887371784

I don't think these people would still be alive if the Russians were worse than the Nazis

I do not belittle the crimes of the Nazis and in no way deny them. Well, I'm in detail: according to local long-lived people in the north and northeast of Ukraine (evidence is freely available on the Internet. Many in Ukraine, including me, heard them in person) Russians treat the local Ukrainian population worse than the Nazis treated local Ukrainian population during World War II.

And I would ask you not to spread the Russian narrative of "Nazi" Ukraine.

And finally, when you mention Bandera, remember not only his cooperation with Germany in the hope of gaining Ukraine's independence, but also the fact that Bandera was arrested by the Gestapo and was sent to the Sachsenhausen concentration camp.

[Storr]

Many of the photographs from Bucha show bodies clearly in an advanced state of decomposition (at least 2 weeks since death). If this is the best explanation the Russians can give, they're guilty as sin. (Though, it's not as if we did not already know that.)

https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1510640340130320393?s=20&t=9_HQgz2v...

[KaiserDave]

Why are we even discussing Bandera? Bandera was awful, but he is also not relevant. Putin is committing mass murder in Ukraine, we need to be giving Ukraine the heavy weapons necessary to drive the Russians out of their country before more genocidal massacres happen. Andriy and all Ukrainians deserve freedom.

[°Leprechaun]

Snip

Your feelings are totally justified. Putin's aggression is so evil and words can not express how dreadful this all is.
Biden is right. Putin must go.

[Middle-aged Europe]

As several posters above have said - it’s understandable to be absolutely enraged by this - I’d be more worried if you weren’t (*cough* compucomp). I’ll confess where there are some days I want NATO planes to fly over the border and destroy as much Russian equipment in UA as possible. But in the current world order, that’s just not an adult or acceptable move. Escalation is a dangerous game, and not one the West is willing to play with Putin.

I'll largely hold my tongue on this because if I don't I'm in danger of getting banned due to "genocide denial" or something like that, but I read the update on CNN and saw that there were "20 bodies of civilian men" found on the street in Bucha. There were probably around 20 people that got shot dead in Chicago yesterday.

I won't make an assessement as to what constitutes a "genocide" and what not , but if your objective was to deny the existence of Russian war crimes in Ukraine you have clearly, certainly succeeded in your task. Congratulations, hope you are proud of yourself.

[John Dule]

I’m very strongly anti-war, but seeing the pictures of civilians shot execution style with hands behind their backs and mass graves makes my blood boil. I can’t even imagine what Mariupol looks like. If they continue to find more and more scenes like this, then I would be in favor of sending NATO troops in to directly fight the Russians.

Would that escalate things immensely? Yes. Would it likely lead to a broader war with Russia? Yes. But I’m sorry, if more scenes like today come out as more towns are liberated, I think we have to acknowledge that Kremlin leadership needs to be eliminated from this earth. In the 21st century, having a nation such as Russia engage in acts of genocide and ethnic cleansing simply cannot be tolerated.

Exactly. If a direct intervention leads to WW3, wouldn’t we be glad that a country like Russia no longer exists?

This might be the most insane statement in this thread-- and compucomp posts here regularly. Well done.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

I don't support sending American troops, but I genuinely don't understand the nuclear point. If Putin is unwilling to use nukes against a nation which has no means of defending itself from them, why in the world would he use nukes against a country that has the power to annihilate Russia with a retaliatory strike? Am I supposed to believe that Putin is literally suicidal, or just stupid? It would be a massive escalation, but it's not like the nuclear deterrent ceases to exist once American troops enter Ukraine.

As far as support goes I think that we should be embargoing Russia in the same way that we do with Cuba (who has done far less lately to deserve it), and sending Ukraine whatever weaponry is necessary to defend itself. It's not what anyone was expecting in February, but it is unlikely that this war will be over soon. Given that is the case, we ought to start training Ukraine on western weapons systems. Sure they won't be able to put them into the field for weeks or months, and the war might be over by then, but there is a chance that such things would make an impact.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

As several posters above have said - it’s understandable to be absolutely enraged by this - I’d be more worried if you weren’t (*cough* compucomp). I’ll confess where there are some days I want NATO planes to fly over the border and destroy as much Russian equipment in UA as possible. But in the current world order, that’s just not an adult or acceptable move. Escalation is a dangerous game, and not one the West is willing to play with Putin.

I'll largely hold my tongue on this because if I don't I'm in danger of getting banned due to "genocide denial" or something like that, but I read the update on CNN and saw that there were "20 bodies of civilian men" found on the street in Bucha. There were probably around 20 people that got shot dead in Chicago yesterday.

It's amazing how every single post of yours is garbage. Usually even the worst posters will have occasional decent ones if only through random chance, but you are truly exceptional.

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://mobile.twitter.com/germanyintheeu/status/1510615417634623489

[OSR stands with Israel]

Good to see you’re alright andjey 🙂

And I also want you let you know Andriy that most us here support Ukraine .

[NOVA Green]

Looks like there might have been some Civilian leaders executed by Russian soldiers around Kyiv as well...

Among the dead were reportedly Olha Sukhenko, the head of the village Motyzhin, and her entire family, all of whom were taken by Russian troops on 25 March.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/apr/02/russia-ukraine-war-latest-russian-troop-withdrawal-noticeable-says-zelenskiy-us-gives-kyiv-300m-more-in-live

Update on the status of a detained Ukrainian Mayor:

A high-ranking Ukrainian official said the mayor of a town near Kyiv has been found dead, days after the country’s attorney general claimed Russian forces took the mayor, her husband and her son captive.

Sukhenko was killed in captivity, Vereshchuk stated, calling it “a war crime,” and warning those responsible that they would be “punished in accordance with international humanitarian law.”

Vereshchuk alleged on Sunday that 11 Ukrainian mayors are being held captive by Russia.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/03/russia-ukraine-war-news-putin-live-updates/#link-EE2C7OBZVRGU7G7ZMK3DNTDKAQ

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://mobile.twitter.com/GermanyNATO/status/1510653578540683273

[NOVA Green]

Article from The Guardian on living in Bucha during the Russian Occupation.

Not going to quote since it's not the type of story where just a few snippets work.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/03/bucha-violence-invasion-russia-ukraine

[pppolitics]

https://twitter.com/lapatina_/status/1510568421297168392

[pppolitics]

https://twitter.com/AdamKinzinger/status/1510628722021384192

[Torie]

Per the NYT, the Russian military does have a division of labor:

By mid-March, the Russian soldiers were rotated out of the town and replaced by separatist fighters who were brought in from the southeast.

It was then, residents said, that atrocities began to mount.

“They were brash and angry,” Dr. Volkova said. “We could not negotiate with them about anything. They would not give us any green corridors, they searched the apartments, took away the phones, abducted people — they took them away, mostly young men, and we still don’t know where these people are.”

[pppolitics]

https://twitter.com/lapatina_/status/1510615612275494918

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://twitter.com/AdamKinzinger/status/1510628722021384192

He's using a false equivalent. The U.S. "took a stand" in 1941 after being directly attacked by Japan in Pearl Harbor. So far, the Russian Air Force hasn't bombed American soil.

However, between September 1939 and December 1941 the United States chose to sit it out. Strictly speaking, the America is probably doing more right now than it did by October 1939.