January 6th legal proceedings and investigations megathread

[Torie]

Andy McCarthy is pretty persuasive that the evidence is lacking to convict Trump of the crime of seditious conspiracy, but more than adequate to support an impeachment and conviction which would have given Congress to impose the penalty of banning Trump from further office.
The piece of evidence that is missing so far is that Trump was involved in planning the breaking and entering into the Capitol building, or was even aware of such plans, much less endorse such plans in advance.


https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/07/january-6-committees-bid-to-prove-trump-criminally-liable-for-violence-falls-short/

There's a lot of evidence that he was happy about it once it was happening, and a lot of circumstantial evidence that he wanted it to happen in advance. He put all the pieces in place for this to happen, and I don't think that's negated because he didn't explicitly call for a violent break in, or by his throwaway statement that he knew it would be peaceful.

McCarthy does think Trump can be prosecuted for aiding and abetting the intimidation of federal officials and for obstruction of congressional proceedings.

https://www.mediaite.com/podcasts/fox-news-legal-analyst-andrew-mccarthy-believes-trump-will-be-prosecuted/

I know of no evidence that Trump was aware in advance of a plan to break and enter into the Capitol to disrupt proceedings much less assist in developing it or approving it. His inaction or approval after the fact while certainly grounds for impeachment, conviction  and removal from office if still in office, is not a crime.

[NewYorkExpress]

Andy McCarthy is pretty persuasive that the evidence is lacking to convict Trump of the crime of seditious conspiracy, but more than adequate to support an impeachment and conviction which would have given Congress to impose the penalty of banning Trump from further office.
The piece of evidence that is missing so far is that Trump was involved in planning the breaking and entering into the Capitol building, or was even aware of such plans, much less endorse such plans in advance.


https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/07/january-6-committees-bid-to-prove-trump-criminally-liable-for-violence-falls-short/

There's a lot of evidence that he was happy about it once it was happening, and a lot of circumstantial evidence that he wanted it to happen in advance. He put all the pieces in place for this to happen, and I don't think that's negated because he didn't explicitly call for a violent break in, or by his throwaway statement that he knew it would be peaceful.

McCarthy does think Trump can be prosecuted for aiding and abetting the intimidation of federal officials and for obstruction of congressional proceedings.

https://www.mediaite.com/podcasts/fox-news-legal-analyst-andrew-mccarthy-believes-trump-will-be-prosecuted/

I know of no evidence that Trump was aware in advance of a plan to break and enter into the Capitol to disrupt proceedings much less assist in developing it or approving it. His inaction or approval after the fact while certainly grounds for impeachment, conviction  and removal from office if still in office, is not a crime.

There's plenty of evidence that Trump knew of such a plan in advance and assisted in drawing up said plan.

[emailking]

I know of no evidence that Trump was aware in advance of a plan to break and enter into the Capitol to disrupt proceedings much less assist in developing it or approving it. His inaction or approval after the fact while certainly grounds for impeachment, conviction  and removal from office if still in office, is not a crime.

Not that knew it would happen but that he hoped it would.

[Torie]

I know of no evidence that Trump was aware in advance of a plan to break and enter into the Capitol to disrupt proceedings much less assist in developing it or approving it. His inaction or approval after the fact while certainly grounds for impeachment, conviction  and removal from office if still in office, is not a crime.

Not that knew it would happen but that he hoped it would.

Even if that hope before the fact is conclusively proven, the act of hope is not a crime. It does of course constitute Exhibit 2,376 that Trump is a horrible person.


The thing that is so weird is just how this rogues' gallery thought it possible that without a court of law finding that the certified vote count in a state was wrong, and the loser was in fact the winner, that having the electors of the losing candidate cast the state's votes in the electoral college would stand in any court, or anywhere else, absent the military by force of arms converting this nation into a dictatorship. To use the word "deranged" to describe that mindset is in this context akin to a bowdlerized euphemism.

[emailking]

Even if that hope before the fact is conclusively proven, the act of hope is not a crime.

If he put all the pieces in place for it to happen (the armed crowd, national guard AWOL, initimidation of Pence, etc), and then hope it would elapse as it did, then yeah it is a crime, even if he didn't know it would happen or tell the Oath Keepers to do it.

But anyway, even if seditious conspiracy isn't charged, I'll take the other crimes he thinks Trump will be charged with.

[Torie]

Even if that hope before the fact is conclusively proven, the act of hope is not a crime.

If he put all the pieces in place for it to happen (the armed crowd, national guard AWOL, initimidation of Pence, etc), and then hope it would elapse as it did, then yeah it is a crime, even if he didn't know it would happen or tell the Oath Keepers to do it.

But anyway, even if seditious conspiracy isn't charged, I'll take the other crimes he thinks Trump will be charged with.

I admire your perseverance, undaunted, no matter how high the hill is to climb. If you want a more realistic fantasy of Trump in jail in a jump suit, tax fraud and criminal grifting fraud are more promising avenues to have a wet dream about. Witness tampering is trending up as time goes by. One thing I am confident about is that Trump will not be indicted by the Feds absent an airtight case (Fulton County is another matter, but then some local DA's indict ham sandwiches when it serves their purposes). Trump beating a criminal rap in court would reanimate him as night does to Dracula.

[emailking]

If you want me to acknowledge he might not be charged with seditious conspiracy and that McCarthy makes a good point regarding that in the link you provided, OK I acknowledge that. But I think you should also acknowledge he might be charged with aiding and abetting the intimidation of federal officials and obstruction of congressional proceedings, and in the link I provided McCarthy makes a good point regarding that!

[Torie]

I do so acknowledge.  Life is beautiful.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Why bother with seditious conspiracy at all? Just go straight for the treason charge.

18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

And from Ex Parte Bollman and Ex Parte Swartwout

To constitute a levying of war, there must be an assemblage of persons for the purpose of effecting by force a treasonable purpose. Enlistments of men to serve against government is not sufficient.

When war is levied, all those who perform any part, however minute or however remote from the scene of action, and who are actually leagued in the general conspiracy, are traitors.

Any assemblage of men for the purpose of revolutionizing by force the government established by the United States in any of its territories, although as a step to or the means of executing some greater projects, amounts to levying war. The traveling of individuals to the place of rendezvous is not sufficient, but the meeting of particular bodies of men and their marching from places of partial to a place of general rendezvous is such an assemblage as constitutes a levying of war.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Why bother with seditious conspiracy at all? Just go straight for the treason charge.

18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

And from Ex Parte Bollman and Ex Parte Swartwout

To constitute a levying of war, there must be an assemblage of persons for the purpose of effecting by force a treasonable purpose. Enlistments of men to serve against government is not sufficient.

When war is levied, all those who perform any part, however minute or however remote from the scene of action, and who are actually leagued in the general conspiracy, are traitors.

Any assemblage of men for the purpose of revolutionizing by force the government established by the United States in any of its territories, although as a step to or the means of executing some greater projects, amounts to levying war. The traveling of individuals to the place of rendezvous is not sufficient, but the meeting of particular bodies of men and their marching from places of partial to a place of general rendezvous is such an assemblage as constitutes a levying of war.

Please, somebody find a way to lure Garland to this page!...Wouldn't that be something?!

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

I think both GA and Garland are anxious awaiting the outcome of the EDay to charge Trump why charge Trump now and the R Congress can interfere, of course they both hope that Ds get a Filibuster proof Majority, GA Prosecution said clearly she will finalize her decision at the end of the yr after EDay that gives you a hint waiting for D's to keep control

We are inside 180 days there a war but partisans get more partisan especially Days when we get closer to EDay , we are leading in our 303 states but the question is the House

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/status/1548787879463325698

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://mobile.twitter.com/atrupar/status/1548699868511850497

[Koharu]

https://twitter.com/ThorningMichael/status/1549067893584928774?s=20&t=cPkE45...

And here's the NBC article referenced in the embedded tweet.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1549154424140009475

[emailking]

Rep Jody Hice has also been subpoenaed by the DA.

[I Will Not Be Wrong]

So with the Committee expected to receive the Secret Service texts today, will they release info on them to the public today or on Thursday's hearing if there is anything significant?

[T0rM3nTeD]

So with the Committee expected to receive the Secret Service texts today, will they release info on them to the public today or on Thursday's hearing if there is anything significant?

Some teasers today, with the bulk on Thursday

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I think both GA and Garland are anxious awaiting the outcome of the EDay to charge Trump why charge Trump now and the R Congress can interfere, of course they both hope that Ds get a Filibuster proof Majority, GA Prosecution said clearly she will finalize her decision at the end of the yr after EDay that gives you a hint waiting for D's to keep control

We are inside 180 days there a war but partisans get more partisan especially Days when we get closer to EDay , we are leading in our 303 states but the question is the House

Trump is not going to be charged with anything connected to this insurrection unless more damning evidence comes out. It's indisputable that his words did rile up his crowd, but there is no evidence that I am aware of that shows he assisted in planning the ransacking of the Capital.

It's possible he hoped what happened would happen, and he obviously enjoyed it, but he can't be charged based on that, at least that I am aware of. He never instructed his followers to break into the Capital. He merely told them to March to the Capital, which is not a crime. You can't convict him on what his real intentions may have been.

He's still a fascist sympathizer and would like to be crowned king/dictator, but he won't go to jail and I'd be surprised if he's even charged.

Keep in mind I do not practice criminal law so I only have a basic understanding of that.

[emailking]

See the article I linked re: Andrew McCarthy. He thinks he can be charged. Just not for seditious conspiracy.

[Ferguson97]

If the DOJ does decide to charge Trump with something, they're going to go the Al Capone route. Charge him with something smaller that he clearly did, and work from there.

[LBJer]

I think both GA and Garland are anxious awaiting the outcome of the EDay to charge Trump why charge Trump now and the R Congress can interfere, of course they both hope that Ds get a Filibuster proof Majority, GA Prosecution said clearly she will finalize her decision at the end of the yr after EDay that gives you a hint waiting for D's to keep control

We are inside 180 days there a war but partisans get more partisan especially Days when we get closer to EDay , we are leading in our 303 states but the question is the House

Trump is not going to be charged with anything connected to this insurrection unless more damning evidence comes out. It's indisputable that his words did rile up his crowd, but there is no evidence that I am aware of that shows he assisted in planning the ransacking of the Capital.

It's possible he hoped what happened would happen, and he obviously enjoyed it, but he can't be charged based on that, at least that I am aware of. He never instructed his followers to break into the Capital. He merely told them to March to the Capital, which is not a crime. You can't convict him on what his real intentions may have been.

He's still a fascist sympathizer and would like to be crowned king/dictator, but he won't go to jail and I'd be surprised if he's even charged.

Keep in mind I do not practice criminal law so I only have a basic understanding of that.

Not buying this take when he deliberately had people that were heavily armed march on the Capitol and say that they weren't there to hurt him.  That speaks volumes as to intent.  As does the fact that he did nothing to call off the crowd when he realized what was happening--and apparently actually supported Pence being hanged!

And it looks like Trump himself believes he might be charged.

[LBJer]

Here's the take of people with more expertise than any of us:

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-must-be-charged-january-6-former-doj-officials-2022-7

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1549453546487160835

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/MuellerSheWrote/status/1549455493093281792

Not a surprise, but it's good to have them publicly confirm it.