Biden infrastructure/tax increase megathread

[R.P. McM]

I’m now rooting against this passing

It has too many of the non tangibles in it and not enough of the major things.

What’s the point

This is why we can't have nice things.

Is it? Pretty sure the reason we can't have nice things is that the Senate and EC are rigged in favor of conservative, rural whites. And that's not going to change (until it's too late). Yeah, you can criticize Democratic-leaning voters for scoffing at the scraps the Biden Administration is prepared to deliver. Incremental progress is certainly better than none at all. However, I think most of us are anticipating living through a climate catastrophe and/or a rightwing autocracy. And the establishment wing of the Democratic Party has all but conceded it's incapable of protecting us from either of those dystopian futures. So I'm kinda with MillennialModerate — what's the point of continuing to support such a party? Family medical leave is nice, but next to addressing climate change and safeguarding democracy, it's basically nothing.        

[7,052,770]

I’m now rooting against this passing

It has too many of the non tangibles in it and not enough of the major things.

What’s the point

This is why we can't have nice things.

Is it? Pretty sure the reason we can't have nice things is that the Senate and EC are rigged in favor of conservative, rural whites. And that's not going to change (until it's too late). Yeah, you can criticize Democratic-leaning voters for scoffing at the scraps the Biden Administration is prepared to deliver. Incremental progress is certainly better than none at all. However, I think most of us are anticipating living through a climate catastrophe and/or a rightwing autocracy. And the establishment wing of the Democratic Party has all but conceded it's incapable of protecting us from either of those dystopian futures. So I'm kinda with MillennialModerate — what's the point of continuing to support such a party? Family medical leave is nice, but next to addressing climate change and safeguarding democracy, it's basically nothing.         

That's the reason we can't have amazing things, but it's the epitome of privilege to oppose a $2T bill (along with its infrastructure companion that's nearly $1T itself) that will be a godsend to millions of people because it is doesn't do enough for you personally.

We still have Congress for another 14 months (and inshallah longer). We still have time to pass more bills that cover what this one doesn't. But let's get this victory and then start planning the next one.

[emailking]

Someone should remind him that it doesn't matter what he says, he's toast in 2024.

I don't think that's what he meant, lol.

[Comrade Funk]

Watch a movie or go shopping

[Pres Mike]

I’m now rooting against this passing

It has too many of the non tangibles in it and not enough of the major things.

What’s the point

This is why we can't have nice things.

Is it? Pretty sure the reason we can't have nice things is that the Senate and EC are rigged in favor of conservative, rural whites. And that's not going to change (until it's too late). Yeah, you can criticize Democratic-leaning voters for scoffing at the scraps the Biden Administration is prepared to deliver. Incremental progress is certainly better than none at all. However, I think most of us are anticipating living through a climate catastrophe and/or a rightwing autocracy. And the establishment wing of the Democratic Party has all but conceded it's incapable of protecting us from either of those dystopian futures. So I'm kinda with MillennialModerate — what's the point of continuing to support such a party? Family medical leave is nice, but next to addressing climate change and safeguarding democracy, it's basically nothing.         

That's the reason we can't have amazing things, but it's the epitome of privilege to oppose a $2T bill (along with its infrastructure companion that's nearly $1T itself) that will be a godsend to millions of people because it is doesn't do enough for you personally.

We still have Congress for another 14 months (and inshallah longer). We still have time to pass more bills that cover what this one doesn't. But let's get this victory and then start planning the next one.

We need a public option badly....

But we also need climate, immigration, $15 minimum wage and voting rights so...

[GeneralMacArthur]

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/578319-manchin-shutting-down-sanders-on-medicare-expansion

Manchin still not sold on Medicare expansion.

If Sanders can actually convince Manchin to get Medicare expansion into this bill, I will give him credit, it will easily be his biggest positive accomplishment across his entire career.

However, knowing Sanders, I would expect the odds of that to be vanishingly low.

Yes, clearly it's Bernie's fault that Manchin doesn't like popular social programs. Stellar political analysis from GMA yet again.

You couldn't even be bothered to read a one-sentence post, instead you just decided to completely invent something I didn't say so you could dunk on it.  That's pathetic.  Thanks for taking me off ignore just for this purpose though.

[Antonio the Sixth]

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/578319-manchin-shutting-down-sanders-on-medicare-expansion

Manchin still not sold on Medicare expansion.

If Sanders can actually convince Manchin to get Medicare expansion into this bill, I will give him credit, it will easily be his biggest positive accomplishment across his entire career.

However, knowing Sanders, I would expect the odds of that to be vanishingly low.

Yes, clearly it's Bernie's fault that Manchin doesn't like popular social programs. Stellar political analysis from GMA yet again.

You couldn't even be bothered to read a one-sentence post, instead you just decided to completely invent something I didn't say so you could dunk on it.  That's pathetic.  Thanks for taking me off ignore just for this purpose though.

How else is one supposed to read "However, knowing Sanders", exactly? Clearly if this was a fair assessment of the situation, you would have said "However, knowing Manchin" since it's clearly Manchin who's being unreasonable here. But you just couldn't resist that little dig, could you?

[Person Man]

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/578319-manchin-shutting-down-sanders-on-medicare-expansion

Manchin still not sold on Medicare expansion.

If Sanders can actually convince Manchin to get Medicare expansion into this bill, I will give him credit, it will easily be his biggest positive accomplishment across his entire career.

However, knowing Sanders, I would expect the odds of that to be vanishingly low.

Yes, clearly it's Bernie's fault that Manchin doesn't like popular social programs. Stellar political analysis from GMA yet again.

You couldn't even be bothered to read a one-sentence post, instead you just decided to completely invent something I didn't say so you could dunk on it.  That's pathetic.  Thanks for taking me off ignore just for this purpose though.

How else is one supposed to read "However, knowing Sanders", exactly? Clearly if this was a fair assessment of the situation, you would have said "However, knowing Manchin" since it's clearly Manchin who's being unreasonable here. But you just couldn't resist that little dig, could you?

I'm actually interested in what he really was trying to say.

[R.P. McM]

I’m now rooting against this passing

It has too many of the non tangibles in it and not enough of the major things.

What’s the point

This is why we can't have nice things.

Is it? Pretty sure the reason we can't have nice things is that the Senate and EC are rigged in favor of conservative, rural whites. And that's not going to change (until it's too late). Yeah, you can criticize Democratic-leaning voters for scoffing at the scraps the Biden Administration is prepared to deliver. Incremental progress is certainly better than none at all. However, I think most of us are anticipating living through a climate catastrophe and/or a rightwing autocracy. And the establishment wing of the Democratic Party has all but conceded it's incapable of protecting us from either of those dystopian futures. So I'm kinda with MillennialModerate — what's the point of continuing to support such a party? Family medical leave is nice, but next to addressing climate change and safeguarding democracy, it's basically nothing.        

That's the reason we can't have amazing things, but it's the epitome of privilege to oppose a $2T bill (along with its infrastructure companion that's nearly $1T itself) that will be a godsend to millions of people because it is doesn't do enough for you personally.

We still have Congress for another 14 months (and inshallah longer). We still have time to pass more bills that cover what this one doesn't. But let's get this victory and then start planning the next one.

Yeah, it's like my house is on fire and my garbage disposal is clogged, and when the fire department arrives, they fix the garbage disposal and call it a day.

How "privileged" of you to complain we didn't put out the fire!!! We look forward to your annual property tax contribution!

By all means, go ahead and pass these quarter-measures. But if nothing significant is accomplished in the realms of climate change and electoral reform (following the summer weather and winter insurrection), you really shouldn't expect my continued support. Just like I'm not going to thank the fire department for unclogging my charred garbage disposal in the wreckage of my house. We're done — I'll find somewhere else to live/vote.

[I Will Not Be Wrong]

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/578468-sanders-serious-spending-bill-must-include-medicare-expansion-drug-pricing

Sanders says the spending bill must have Medicare expansion and drug pricing reform.

[R.P. McM]

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/578468-sanders-serious-spending-bill-must-include-medicare-expansion-drug-pricing

Sanders says the spending bill must have Medicare expansion and drug pricing reform.

The one person in the caucus whom Schumer genuinely has zero leverage over: Bernie Sanders. Yeah, he could die, but unlike SineManchin, he's not losing a primary, he's not losing reelection, and his fundraising capacity and influence within the progressive sphere isn't going away.

[GP270watch]

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/578468-sanders-serious-spending-bill-must-include-medicare-expansion-drug-pricing

Sanders says the spending bill must have Medicare expansion and drug pricing reform.

 It's completely inept that the largest purchaser of drugs in the world can not negotiate prices. I have a feeling that if this was ever put to a direct vote at least 75% of the American people would vote yes, on Medicare negotiating the prices they pay for drugs.

 

[Shadows]

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/578468-sanders-serious-spending-bill-must-include-medicare-expansion-drug-pricing

Sanders says the spending bill must have Medicare expansion and drug pricing reform.

 It's completely inept that the largest purchaser of drugs in the world can not negotiate prices. I have a feeling that if this was ever put to a direct vote at least 75% of the American people would vote yes, on Medicare negotiating the prices they pay for drugs.

 

Sinema is a disgusting woman. Female Ted Cruz - Her stand on a small roll-back on the Trump cut & opposition to drug reform while she fundraises from big pharma is atrocious. She is losing by 50-60% to most Democratic House Reps in a Dem primary for the Senate seat. She is more toast than Manchin but she will do lasting damage for the next 4 years !

[7,052,770]

I’m now rooting against this passing

It has too many of the non tangibles in it and not enough of the major things.

What’s the point

This is why we can't have nice things.

Is it? Pretty sure the reason we can't have nice things is that the Senate and EC are rigged in favor of conservative, rural whites. And that's not going to change (until it's too late). Yeah, you can criticize Democratic-leaning voters for scoffing at the scraps the Biden Administration is prepared to deliver. Incremental progress is certainly better than none at all. However, I think most of us are anticipating living through a climate catastrophe and/or a rightwing autocracy. And the establishment wing of the Democratic Party has all but conceded it's incapable of protecting us from either of those dystopian futures. So I'm kinda with MillennialModerate — what's the point of continuing to support such a party? Family medical leave is nice, but next to addressing climate change and safeguarding democracy, it's basically nothing.        

That's the reason we can't have amazing things, but it's the epitome of privilege to oppose a $2T bill (along with its infrastructure companion that's nearly $1T itself) that will be a godsend to millions of people because it is doesn't do enough for you personally.

We still have Congress for another 14 months (and inshallah longer). We still have time to pass more bills that cover what this one doesn't. But let's get this victory and then start planning the next one.

Yeah, it's like my house is on fire and my garbage disposal is clogged, and when the fire department arrives, they fix the garbage disposal and call it a day.

How "privileged" of you to complain we didn't put out the fire!!! We look forward to your annual property tax contribution!

By all means, go ahead and pass these quarter-measures. But if nothing significant is accomplished in the realms of climate change and electoral reform (following the summer weather and winter insurrection), you really shouldn't expect my continued support. Just like I'm not going to thank the fire department for unclogging my charred garbage disposal in the wreckage of my house. We're done — I'll find somewhere else to live/vote.

That's an asinine analogy. Biden and 48 Senators want to do more, but the votes aren't there. Don't abandon Biden because voters didn't give him a Senate that would pass the platform he campaigned on.

[I Will Not Be Wrong]

So, who caves? Sanders or Manchin?

[7,052,770]

So, who caves? Sanders or Manchin?

Sanders almost certainly, but he'll squeeze a little more out of Manchin in exchange for it.

[roxas11]

So, who caves? Sanders or Manchin?

Sanders because at this point Joe Manchin has every Dem tap dancing for him lol

[Matty]

This is a huge deal.

Manchin blasts the irs reporting rules, says they will be gone from final bill.

that was a huge revenue gainer. Where will money come from now?

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/26/joe-manchin-irs-reporting-spending-bill-517194

“Do you understand how messed up that is?” Manchin said he told the president. “This cannot happen. It’s screwed up.”

“I think that one’s going to be gone,” Manchin added.

[R.P. McM]

I’m now rooting against this passing

It has too many of the non tangibles in it and not enough of the major things.

What’s the point

This is why we can't have nice things.

Is it? Pretty sure the reason we can't have nice things is that the Senate and EC are rigged in favor of conservative, rural whites. And that's not going to change (until it's too late). Yeah, you can criticize Democratic-leaning voters for scoffing at the scraps the Biden Administration is prepared to deliver. Incremental progress is certainly better than none at all. However, I think most of us are anticipating living through a climate catastrophe and/or a rightwing autocracy. And the establishment wing of the Democratic Party has all but conceded it's incapable of protecting us from either of those dystopian futures. So I'm kinda with MillennialModerate — what's the point of continuing to support such a party? Family medical leave is nice, but next to addressing climate change and safeguarding democracy, it's basically nothing.        

That's the reason we can't have amazing things, but it's the epitome of privilege to oppose a $2T bill (along with its infrastructure companion that's nearly $1T itself) that will be a godsend to millions of people because it is doesn't do enough for you personally.

We still have Congress for another 14 months (and inshallah longer). We still have time to pass more bills that cover what this one doesn't. But let's get this victory and then start planning the next one.

Yeah, it's like my house is on fire and my garbage disposal is clogged, and when the fire department arrives, they fix the garbage disposal and call it a day.

How "privileged" of you to complain we didn't put out the fire!!! We look forward to your annual property tax contribution!

By all means, go ahead and pass these quarter-measures. But if nothing significant is accomplished in the realms of climate change and electoral reform (following the summer weather and winter insurrection), you really shouldn't expect my continued support. Just like I'm not going to thank the fire department for unclogging my charred garbage disposal in the wreckage of my house. We're done — I'll find somewhere else to live/vote.

That's an asinine analogy. Biden and 48 Senators want to do more, but the votes aren't there. Don't abandon Biden because voters didn't give him a Senate that would pass the platform he campaigned on.

No, the analogy is perfectly apt — climate change and the looming rightwing autocracy do threaten to burn down the entire house. And I'm sick of the f**king excuses. Oh, we can't control Manchin & Sinema!?%^;(-0$! Then find another line of work! As long as they're members of your caucus and members of your party, you can't use them as excuses for your failures.

P.S.: I really doubt there are 48 senators who "want to do more." More likely, the Feinstein's of the party are using SineManchin as cover.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

So Manchin is just trying kill reconciliation at this point, but doesn’t want the professional blow back so he’s just going to make increasingly ridiculous demands until someone else walks.

Just waiting to hear GeneralMacArthur tell us how this is Bernie Sanders fault.

[roxas11]

This is a huge deal.

Manchin blasts the irs reporting rules, says they will be gone from final bill.

that was a huge revenue gainer. Where will money come from now?

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/26/joe-manchin-irs-reporting-spending-bill-517194

“Do you understand how messed up that is?” Manchin said he told the president. “This cannot happen. It’s screwed up.”

“I think that one’s going to be gone,” Manchin added.

Don't worry by the time Manchin is done cutting out everything he possibly can from the reconciliation bill, it won't even cost 50 cent in the end...

[R.P. McM]

So Manchin is just trying kill reconciliation at this point, but doesn’t want the professional blow back so he’s just going to make increasingly ridiculous demands until someone else walks.

Just waiting to hear GeneralMacArthur tell us how this is Bernie Sanders fault.

Sanders should just kill the whole thing, let the rest of party make examples out of Manchin and Sinema. This is what corporate bloodsuckers look like, this is what a failed presidency looks like. Biden will be the last moderate I ever support in a Democratic primary. Thanks for nothing, scumbags.

[GP270watch]

So Manchin is just trying kill reconciliation at this point, but doesn’t want the professional blow back so he’s just going to make increasingly ridiculous demands until someone else walks.

Just waiting to hear GeneralMacArthur tell us how this is Bernie Sanders fault.

Sanders should just kill the whole thing, let the rest of party make examples out of Manchin and Sinema. This is what corporate bloodsuckers look like, this is what a failed presidency looks like. Biden will be the last moderate I ever support in a Democratic primary. Thanks for nothing.

 This is what these idiotic moderate Democrats and Republicans don't understand. By failing to govern and pass the basic things that are popular with nearly all the American people you are just fostering distrust in the system and what is coming after that will be extreme and will take a wrecking ball to the status quo.

[7,052,770]

So Manchin is just trying kill reconciliation at this point, but doesn’t want the professional blow back so he’s just going to make increasingly ridiculous demands until someone else walks.

Just waiting to hear GeneralMacArthur tell us how this is Bernie Sanders fault.

Sanders should just kill the whole thing, let the rest of party make examples out of Manchin and Sinema. This is what corporate bloodsuckers look like, this is what a failed presidency looks like. Biden will be the last moderate I ever support in a Democratic primary. Thanks for nothing, scumbags.

Again, how is this Biden's fault? He's on the progressive side on this bill and has refused lots of opportunities to defect to the moderate side. He can't control things like FL, ME, and NC (etc.) voters unable to see the big picture or 2 senators refusing to enact his agenda for god knows why reasons.

[R.P. McM]

So Manchin is just trying kill reconciliation at this point, but doesn’t want the professional blow back so he’s just going to make increasingly ridiculous demands until someone else walks.

Just waiting to hear GeneralMacArthur tell us how this is Bernie Sanders fault.

Sanders should just kill the whole thing, let the rest of party make examples out of Manchin and Sinema. This is what corporate bloodsuckers look like, this is what a failed presidency looks like. Biden will be the last moderate I ever support in a Democratic primary. Thanks for nothing.

 This is what these idiotic moderate Democrats and Republicans don't understand. By failing to govern and pass the basic things that are popular with nearly all the American people you are just fostering distrust in the system and what is coming after that will be extreme and will take a wrecking ball to the status quo.

Exactly. This is Louis XVI inciting the French Revolution rather than making palpable concessions to the French merchants/peasants. Well, we all know what happened to Louis. It looks like the establishment wing of the Democratic Party is courting a similar fate (in political terms, at least).