Germany megathread

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Blanket banning of protests rather than dealing with the individuals who commit actual hate crimes is not what a free country does, sorry.

Also, have you wondered why the AfD is the most unambiguously pro-Israel party in Germany?

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

Joke country
https://twitter.com/unitas_spiritus/status/1712903895612014595?t=0307NhrrgOkQ1eO...

I wonder why.



Germany, like any other country, has plenty of people genuinely worried about the Palestinian people and plenty of Zyklon B enthusiasts who think they've now been proven right. It's probably justified to ban these protests because of frequent, er, incidents at similar protests elsewhere, at least right now. A second Charlottesville rally shouldn't be allowed either. As for the quoted tweet, people waving the Hakenkreuz at a supposedly anti-genocide protest, or doing Hitler salutes in Jewish museums, or tearing down pictures of missing Israeli children should (and hopefully will) have the book thrown at them without mercy. Have the police pay them a door-breaching visit at five in the morning, put the domestic ones on a watchlist and in jail and yes, put the foreign ones on a plane.

This is one random kid who quickly pulled up 'Nazi Flag' on his phone through google search. I fail to see why this same image is being used over and over? To be clear, one of the many anti-fascists he's likely protesting with should've slugged the phone out of his hand and worse if those were actually his beliefs but I still fail to see why this pic is gathering so much traction.

(For comparison, here are the Nazis our church faced last Sunday. All I'm saying is that these people are actual Nazis with 'intent to intimidate' whereas whoever that guy is, is clearly just trying to be 'edgy' off the group-mentality of protesters facing off /w each other. It's pathetic and sad, but not really evidence of 'Nazism' among muslims.)

[OSR stands with Israel]

These protests all across the world in favor of Hamas proves why there needs to be better screening of immigrants from certain nations

[Estrella]

Blanket banning of protests rather than dealing with the individuals who commit actual hate crimes is not what a free country does, sorry.

I wish I could agree with this, but I just don’t trust the police to actually deal with those individuals. Have there been any prosecutions for things like this? That situation is a pogrom waiting to happen. And if threats of violence lead to a Jewish community being hounded out of somewhere… well, there’s a term for it: ethnic cleansing.

Also, have you wondered why the AfD is the most unambiguously pro-Israel party in Germany?

Of course — AfD is as motivated by hatred towards a people as their predecessors were a century ago. It’s more interesting how things changed on the other side of politics. 101 years ago, Jewish millionaire financier Walther Rathenau was murdered by a far-right militia. The left, including KPD, responded by going to the streets in the hundreds of thousands and calling a general strike. It’s hard to imagine something like that happening now, and not just because general strikes (sadly) aren’t a thing anymore.

This is one random kid who quickly pulled up 'Nazi Flag' on his phone through google search. I fail to see why this same image is being used over and over? To be clear, one of the many anti-fascists he's likely protesting with should've slugged the phone out of his hand and worse if those were actually his beliefs but I still fail to see why this pic is gathering so much traction.

(For comparison, here are the Nazis our church faced last Sunday. All I'm saying is that these people are actual Nazis with 'intent to intimidate' whereas whoever that guy is, is clearly just trying to be 'edgy' off the group-mentality of protesters facing off /w each other. It's pathetic and sad, but not really evidence of 'Nazism' among muslims.)

This is just one incident out of many, many others. It doesn’t say anything about protesters who weren’t involved (except that, like you said, they’re cowards). It does say everything we need to know about the people who did those things. When someone goes to a demonstration and displays a symbol, they usually do it because they believe in what it represents. One swastika isn’t somehow less hateful than the other.

[kelestian]

Multiple fights between pro-Palestinian mobs and Police in Neuköln yesterday, bus service through the area was stopped. Also synagogue was attacked with Molotov cocktail.

https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/molotowcocktails-auf-berliner-synagoge-geworfen-innensenatorin-spranger-sieht-angriff-auf-grundfeste-unseres-miteinanders-10642945.html

[CumbrianLefty]

These protests all across the world in favor of Hamas proves why there needs to be better screening of immigrants from certain nations

Though quite a few of the most objectionable people on these demos are not actually immigrants.

[H. Ross Peron]

Wagenknecht formally breaks with Die Linke and announces the formation of a preparatory committee for a political party, Bundnis Sahra Wagenknecht. Fellow Die Linke Bundestag deputies Amira Mohamed Ali and Christian Leye have joined Wagenknecht.

https://twitter.com/SWagenknecht/status/1716371140388499535

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

Spiegel reporting that 9 members of the Bundestag have resigned from Linke and joined BSW. Now Die Linke is down to just 29 members in the Bundestag, which means they will lose their Fraktion status and with it, major funding

[CumbrianLefty]

Now let's see how this new party gets on polling wise, in particular if it affects AfD support at all.

[Not Me, Us]

“Bündnis Sahra Wagenknecht” is an f-tier name for a political party, hopefully they’ll go back to the drawing board on that one.

[Middle-aged Europe]

“Bündnis Sahra Wagenknecht” is an f-tier name for a political party, hopefully they’ll go back to the drawing board on that one.

They certainly promised us that much.

Spiegel reporting that 9 members of the Bundestag have resigned from Linke and joined BSW. Now Die Linke is down to just 29 members in the Bundestag, which means they will lose their Fraktion status and with it, major funding

They have resigned from the party, but not the parliamentary group... for now. Which means the parliamentary group is still at 38 MPs, but with a growing number of independents among them. The divorce will be finalized when the defectors formally leave the parliamentary group in the coming weeks.

(Ironically, the parliamentary group probably won't expel them despite them being branded as traitors at the same time, because like Clarko said, they would stand to lose major funding.)

Now let's see how this new party gets on polling wise, in particular if it affects AfD support at all.

They're probably have a major boost in the beginning with a potential of fizzling out once people start to notice that Wagenknecht's strength lies in making TV appearances, not in actually running things. Plus, a project like the BSW has a huge potential of attracting any kind of weirdos from both the far-left and the far-right, therefore increasing the chance of getting negative press. Not that I would like to see a "spoiler" party which cuts into the AfD's vote shares.

[jaichind]

BSW at 12% and takes 5% from AfD

https://twitter.com/Wahlen_DE/status/1716466137276334133

[Middle-aged Europe]

I'm always taking INSA with a grain of salt, but it's interesting that BSW is supposedly not cutting into the Left Party's support much, but rather into the AfD's and presumably the Free Voters' (INSA had the FW at 4% in their last regular poll). Horseshoe theory in action!!

[lfromnj]

I mean we all saw what happened in Denmark when the Social Democrats adopted the far right's immigration stance. The far right collapsed. German social democrats were too dumb to realize this.

[Middle-aged Europe]

I mean we all saw what happened in Denmark when the Social Democrats adopted the far right's immigration stance. The far right collapsed. German social democrats were too dumb to realize this.

Or maybe... too ethical.

[Хahar 🤔]

So, looking at Wagenknecht's actual statements, particularly on the economy, the word that comes to mind is...bürgerlich. She keeps talking about "reasonable" economic policy, about empowering small and medium-sized businesses, about pushing back against the activist excesses of the current government. None of this sounds like it would be out of place in the CDU, and there's a quote from Gregor Gysi comparing her economic policy to that of Ludwig Erhard.

As far as other policy goes, the stuff about vaccines and Russia would be on the fringe, but it's not totally out of place for the germanophone right. Anyway Wagenknecht has tried to downplay the rhetoric here: she's not pro-Russia, she says, but she just doesn't think that Germany is in a place to be taking sides.

Obviously you wouldn't expect a red-brown party to actually have any red to it, but I would expect somewhat more brown, more rhetoric about taking on the bankster elites who run the economy and less about sound economic management. At the moment, the color that comes to mind is blue. Are all these ex-WASG types really interested in a conventional conservative party?

[CumbrianLefty]

But again, might this be another case of vibes mattering at least as much as actual policy?

[Yeahsayyeah]

There seem to be two different BSW lines of communication that aren't fully compatible. The Wagenknecht statement and website line of alleged "common sense" economic moderatism. And another line via back-channels, allies and the declaration of the 9 Bundestag members that left the party into the rest of the Left Party, that is emphasizing some kind of "going back to the roots of the Left Party" as the party of "social justice" (in the German sense of the word which means economical equality, helping the poor and stuff) and "peace" (we know what that means in the context of the Russia-Ukraine war) "without the woke stuff of the activist urban mileu" the Left Party leaders have allegedly been chasing after in the last decade.

This whole party split is more about the personal disputes inside the Left Party and vibes that came with that. Accordingly the known members of BSW are all close allies of Wagenkecht, but there are clearly differences in their political views and I don't see all of them really agreeing with line 1, but we won't know for some time. On the other hand one could describe the political outlook of many WASG figures as some kind of "left-wing conservatism" as their common goal was to restore the welfare state as it was before the labour market (Hartz) and pension reforms. And PDS clearly had elements of conservatism, too, especially in their electorate. I think, that is, what Wagenknecht and her allies are betting on.

Additionally, we won't know, how much influence on the Left Party membership this will have, until the party will be formed in reality. "Normal members" probably don't have any incentive to switch as of now as it seems, the association isn't admitting members (at least, they stated, it is not their goal as of know) and is mostly asking for money. It's even not clear, BSW will be included much into the polls until then. I think, they are wasting momentum by waiting, but they have reasons (campaign and party finance laws, preparation to get the organization started to avoid the fate of "Aufstehen", maybe vetting candidates and members).

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Yeah, extremely funny for a Marxist to open her pitch by talking about fiscal responsibility. She's been talking to the Chinese too much.

[H. Ross Peron]

Yeah, extremely funny for a Marxist to open her pitch by talking about fiscal responsibility. She's been talking to the Chinese too much.

Would be very funny if Gerhard Schroeder ends up endorsing them in the next election.

[Zinneke]

Yeah, extremely funny for a Marxist to open her pitch by talking about fiscal responsibility. She's been talking to the Chinese too much.

Would be very funny if Gerhard Schroeder ends up endorsing them in the next election.

It would also tell us a lot about who is actually behind the movement. We can still give them the benefit of the doubt though because it's simply the case that a lot of East Germans want to maintain traditions such as no arms exports and a soft stance towards Russia (seeing themselves in a same role as Britain was with the US). Gyisi is the more articulate less unhinged (which says more about Wagenknecht) voice of that tradition though.

[jaichind]

BSW at 14.  BSW seems to draw the most from AfD and then CDU/CSU.  BSW now around the same as SPD and Greens
https://twitter.com/Wahlen_DE/status/1718195130912457115

[Intell]

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720171855221244185

So uhh what is happening?

I'm not like a bleeding heart and oppose deporting asylum seekers convicted of a crime, but deporting them for not being pro-Israel seems a bit ridiculous

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720171855221244185

So uhh what is happening?

I'm not like a bleeding heart and oppose deporting asylum seekers convicted of a crime, but deporting them for not being pro-Israel seems a bit ridiculous

All smoke and mirrors. Tough talk is the cheap, but in practice deportations won't happen on a large scale if the countries of origin refuse to accept them back. I guess part of the problem are right-wing populist governments in the EU who are happy to let them through (knowing full well that they wouldn't be able to deport them too, but at least they're elsewhere then, in Germany).

[lfromnj]

https://www.bild.de/politik/inland/politik-inland/deutschland-wir-haben-ein-problem-die-haerteste-migrations-umfrage-des-jahres-85935900.bild.html

61 percent are now in favor of not admitting any more people from Islamic countries to Germany. Strikingly, only the majority of Green voters (51 percent) think differently.