Germany megathread

[Middle-aged Europe]

Of course, if there was really a political desire for a "state of Bonn", there would probably be a new article in the constitution defining special rules (as was done with the planned Berlin/Brandenburg fusion).

I don't know if it was addressed in the video (it wasn't mentioned in the poll), but fake news and bribery played a part in making Bonn seat of government instead of Frankfurt.

To be honest, the only reason why Berlin is even a state (historically) is because the city was places under a form of special administrative control by the Allies after WWII. It used to be a part and capital of Prussia. Although one could certainly speculate that any dissolution of Prussia would have led to a creation of a state of Berlin. It certainly makes sense in retrospect given it has a bigger population than half the other states including Schleswig-Holstein or Brandenburg.

[Yeahsayyeah]

Groß-Berlin was carved out of the province of Brandenburg in 1920. So it makes sense, that a dissolution of Prussia and an earlier reunification would have led to a Land or Free City of Berlin, too, as it would almost always have been more populous than the rest of Brandenburg.

[CumbrianLefty]

In practice, a "state of Bonn" would have contained rather more than the city itself I suppose.

[Yeahsayyeah]

Of, course there was no need for a "State of Bonn" as Europeans don't have this weird "The capital must not be in a state or at least in its own state" fixation of colonial settler nations.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Groß-Berlin was carved out of the province of Brandenburg in 1920. So it makes sense, that a dissolution of Prussia and an earlier reunification would have led to a Land or Free City of Berlin, too, as it would almost always have been more populous than the rest of Brandenburg.

Some of the Prussian provinces were merged with other provinces or states post-1947 though.

In practice, a "state of Bonn" would have contained rather more than the city itself I suppose.

Cologne-Bonn, I guess... which is indeed considered a single metropolitan area in the south of NRW with a total population slightly smaller than Berlin's.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Of, course there was no need for a "State of Bonn" as Europeans don't have this weird "The capital must not be in a state or at least in its own state" fixation of colonial settler nations.

Berlin hasn't even a special legal status except for the state-is-concurrent-with-municipality rule that is also followed by Hamburg (the state of Bremen however consists of two distinct municipalities). Given the sheer size of the city's population - which is approaching that of Saxony, the largest of the eastern states - Berlin's "independence" is certainly jusitified though.

[omar04]

Are there any good articles on Merkel? I'm particularly interested in her career before ascending to the chancellorship (apparently she was more right wing in her talking points) and constituency.

[Middle-aged Europe]

The AfD has retracted a platform plank for their 2024 European election platform calling for a "dissolution" of the European Union. It seems some people in the party had noticed that they had accidentally pushed things too far, an easy mistake to make in the AfD nowadays, I guess.

https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/afd-eu-100.html

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

A little self-promotion here: I spent several hours today expanding on the legislative accomplishments of the Scholz government on the Wikipedia page (in addition to what I already wrote last October)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholz_cabinet#Policy

Next project will be the Kohl, Schröder, and Merkel governments for their actual legislative achievements. I hate so many of these "X cabinet" articles have no actual information other than who the ministers are, regardless of the language of the article.


EDIT - who tf added the table? Ugly and completely unnecessary

[Storr]

https://twitter.com/lijukic/status/1682720742171967491?s=20

[LAKISYLVANIA]

[Helsinkian]

German centre-right leader says he is willing to work with far-right AfD at local level

Comments by CDU leader Friedrich Merz could see erosion of political ‘firewall’ separating conservatives and far right

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/24/german-centre-right-leader-says-he-is-willing-to-work-with-far-right-afd-at-local-level

[PSOL]

Here we are again with the German right supporting fascists. All that is missing is the SPD funding death squads, although support for Ukrainian ones is pretty close.

[CumbrianLefty]

All that is missing is the SPD funding death squads, although support for Ukrainian ones is pretty close.

You are so edgy

[Middle-aged Europe]

German centre-right leader says he is willing to work with far-right AfD at local level

Comments by CDU leader Friedrich Merz could see erosion of political ‘firewall’ separating conservatives and far right

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/24/german-centre-right-leader-says-he-is-willing-to-work-with-far-right-afd-at-local-level

"Therefore Friedrich Merz is not suitable as Chancellor-candidate for the CDU/CSU." - Christian Gräff, CDU spokesperson for economic policy in the Berlin state parliament.

This was probably the harshest response Merz received today (or yesterday evening) from within the ranks of his own party. Other reactions, like the one from Gräff's boss, the Governing Mayor of Berlin, were usually more reserved, restricting themselves to statements that they disagree with Merz' position in accordance with standing party rules forbidding any cooperation with the AfD.

Naturally, if you have maybe a couple of dozen politcians from your own party publicly disagreeing with you it stands to reason that you just had a pretty sh**tty day as party leader nonetheless. As media commentators have pointed, two of Merz' most prominent intra-party rivals/critics - NRW minister-president Hendrik Wüst and Schleswig-Holstein minister-president Daniel Günther- were notably quiet on the issue though. That's because there was no need for them to do so. In Wüst's case, whose ambitions for the Chancellery is an open secret around here, it was regarded as a smart move not to give up the higher ground by getting himself into turf fight with Merz right now, instead letting everyone else do the job for him.

In other words, Merz has just moved himself in the kill zone and if Wüst hasn't sealed the deal for himself today already he at least came one hell of a step closer.

[DavidB.]

Can't wait for Wüst to be elected, the CDU being CDA'd and for AfD to reach 30%. For CDU, the smartest would be to move right. But they don't deserve another shot at running/ruining the country so it's better this way.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Can't wait for Wüst to be elected, the CDU being CDA'd and for AfD to reach 30%. For CDU, the smartest would be to move right. But they don't deserve another shot at running/ruining the country so it's better this way.

Now, now, now... not so fast young grasshopper. Hendrik Wüst was a founding of the so-called Einstein connection, a cabal of conservative CDU/CSU politicians including Markus Söder (who has also distanced himself from Merz' statement btw), Philipp Mißfelder, and Stefan Mappus who wanted their party move further to the right again... well, not just that right. But I guess in a time when the Overton window has been pushed that far all over the democratic nations that the likes of Brian Kemp have now almost become regarded as tree-hugging commie liberals, I guess it is only natural to incorectly assume that Wüst must be one too.

[Yeahsayyeah]

Well, CDU/CSU moved considerably to the right since the Grand Coalition is over and look who has benefited the most from that...

[DavidB.]

Now, now, now... not so fast young grasshopper. Hendrik Wüst was a founding of the so-called Einstein connection, a cabal of conservative CDU/CSU politicians including Markus Söder (who has also distanced himself from Merz' statement btw), Philipp Mißfelder, and Stefan Mappus who wanted their party move further to the right again... well, not just that right. But I guess in a time when the Overton window has been pushed that far all over the democratic nations that the likes of Brian Kemp have now almost become regarded as tree-hugging commie liberals, I guess it is only natural to incorectly assume that Wüst must be one too.

It doesn't matter. Germany has entered the same situation as we have in the Netherlands and many other European countries have it: the era of the mathematical impossibility of a center-right coalition. The idea that the Union and FDP can form a majority coalition again anytime soon is completely off the table due to AfD's size and the fact that it has mainly won over right-wing voters. This means excluding AfD equals the Union and FDP surrendering themselves to endless GroKos, traffic lights, or Jamaicas. At some point, right-wing voters are going to be done with that, and they will want cooperation (even if only on a tacit, confidence and supply basis). It even happened in Sweden. I don't believe Germany is (or has ever been) a Sonderfall and I think it is only a matter of time before Germany will follow most of Europe. The CDU could delay it by moving rightwards on immigration, though, and putting its money where its mouth is - the way the Danish Social Democrats have wiped out the Danish People's Party. Difficult to see how that could happen with SPD or the Greens, though. This is essentially the issue that made the Dutch government collapse and it will put pressure on German politics, too.

Well, CDU/CSU moved considerably to the right since the Grand Coalition is over and look who has benefited the most from that...

Because the Union lacks credibility. This will take time.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Tobias Hans, former minister-president of Saarland, has also come out against Friedrich Merz as Chancellor-candidate now.

I'm getting the popcorn.

[President Johnson]

Tobias Hans, former minister-president of Saarland, has also come out against Friedrich Merz as Chancellor-candidate now.

I'm getting the popcorn.

I was never fully convinced he'd be their candidate to begin with. It would be easy to paint "Mr. Blackrock" as out-of-touch elitist who was a lobbyist for the banking industry. Merz' age might also be a factor in addition to the fact he never held any position in the executive branch.

If I had to guess today, the CDU candidate will either be Hendrick Wüst or Daniel Günther. Two popular state leaders that appeal to the center as Merkel did. Scholz should definitely be worried the most about these two.

Depending on the outcome of the Bavarian election in October, it's also quite possible Söder makes another play should the CSU get over 40%. Even though he denied interest before, Söder isn't exactly known for his consistent opinions.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Saxony minister-president Michael Kretschmer is a rare voice coming out in support of Merz.

Probably the least surprising development ever, considering that Kretschmer is a bit of an outsider himself who has been under criticism for being a (post-Ukraine invasion) Putin appeaser in the past, among other things.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Friedrich Merz has urged his party to end the "personnel debates", obviously referring to himself and the recently self-fueled dispute regarding his future Chancellor-candidacy.

The fact that he made a statement on Sunday that was highly controversial within his own party without (apparently) making sure first that he has sufficient political support for changing that stance in the first place, leading to a public intra-party debate whether he his suitable as Chancellor is perhaps in itself a sign that he is in over his head as party leader and obviously would also be so as Chancellor. Quod erat demonstrandum.

[JimJamUK]

What’s behind the recent AFD rise to ~20% nationally? I can understand a rise to say 15%, but what’s caused them to battle for 2nd place? Is there an issue they have the sole popular stance on or have their signature issues became a lot more salient?

[oldtimer]

What’s behind the recent AFD rise to ~20% nationally? I can understand a rise to say 15%, but what’s caused them to battle for 2nd place? Is there an issue they have the sole popular stance on or have their signature issues became a lot more salient?

I guess the bad economy and the CDU being too centrist.