Germany megathread

[Mr. Smith]

A map I saw on twitter:

https://twitter.com/simongerman600/status/1672955310066073601?s=20

Bonn isn't even labeled.  Truly remarkable for being a former Capital.

[CumbrianLefty]

Has population always been like that, or is the E being more sparsely populated a post-WW2 thing?

[palandio]

Has population always been like that, or is the E being more sparsely populated a post-WW2 thing?

That depends on what you mean by sparsely populated.

The map and its description are misleading because what the map really shows are rural settlement patterns. Uninhabitated square kilometers are shown in white, whereas all other square kilometers are shown in dark red.
- Regions with mountains and large forests have a lot of white. These areas exist in both East and West.
- There are many flat and slightly hilly areas in the West with small hamlets or single farms on every square kilometer. In vast swathes of the East that have always been dominated by large estates the population is concentrated in the villages and the square kilometers inbetween are uninhabitated.

So the map would probably not have looked too different before WW2.

At the same time you are right that the population in the East is now lower than it was before WW2 and in the West it is now much higher than before WW2. Before WW2 the average population density in the West and in what is now the East were roughly equal. Interestingly in the most sparsely populated areas of the East (e.g. Mecklenburg-Vorpommern) the population gains due to refugee settlement after WW2 still exceed the losses during the last decades. The regions that really lost compared to before WW2 are the industrial areas in Saxony and parts of Thuringia and Saxony-Anhalt, but I don't think that it would show in less dark red areas. In the West on the other hand basically all areas have grown compared to before WW2, and often by a lot.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Has population always been like that, or is the E being more sparsely populated a post-WW2 thing?

Between 1948 and 1990 the population of East Germany had dropped continously from originally 19 million to 16 million in the end. Prior to the erection of the Berlin Wall there had been sizable migration to the West and afterwards the country had suffered from low birth rates.

It's a bit hard to separate East Berlin and West Berlin nowadays, but the five eastern states plus former East Berlin account for maybe 14 million people at the moment, mainly because the migration to the West had resumed after the Wall was gone (albeit this time for purely economic reasons).

[Storr]

Peak American journalism:

https://twitter.com/jkass99/status/1673412289121198082?s=20

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

Peak American journalism:

https://twitter.com/jkass99/status/1673412289121198082?s=20

I mean it technically is. Germany under the Weimar Republic didn't have district elections.

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

Today, Lars Klingbeil, one of the two co-chairs of the SPD, endorsed raising the minimum wage to 14.00 EUR per hour immediately by legislation.

Recently, the minimum wage commission, which is made up of a panel of representatives from labor unions, employer's associations, and economists and other experts, could not agree on a new minimum wage within the normal corporatist process, and hence the unions were outvoted when the commission voted to raise the minimum wage from the current 12.00 EUR per hour to 12.41 EUR per hour effective January 1st, 2024 and then 12.82 EUR per hour on January 1st, 2025.

For the first time in its history, the Minimum Wage Commission, whose decision is decisive for the statutory determination, did not agree on its recommendation at the beginning of the week. The employee representatives considered the increase to be too low, were outvoted, and raised serious allegations against the employers' side.

An increase of 41 cents per hour represents an increase of just 3.4%, while inflation has clocked in at approximately 8% over the past year in Germany.

Since the introduction of the statutory minimum wage in 2015, the commission has been superseded only once by the Bundestag: in early 2022, the Bundestag raised the minimum wage from 9.60 EUR per hour to 12.00 EUR per hour on October 1st in two steps.

Superseding the commission again is legally sound, but there is of course the worry that this is the cumulation of the long-predicted politicization of the minimum wage that was predicted back in 2015. The SPD, unions, and Greens have severely criticized the small increase, but I have not heard an official declaration from the Greens. Almost certainly they would support such an increase in the minimum wage. However, the FDP has immediately dismissed the increase.


Klingbeil has also announced a three-point plan to counteract the rise of AfD:

Klingbeil wants to fight the high polls of the AfD with a three-point plan for more citizen proximity. "We need three things. Firstly, good politics that tackle people's everyday problems. Wages, housing, pensions, affordable energy, these are the issues. Second: A political style that doesn't tell people how they should be, but takes seriously what's on their minds. And thirdly: get out of Berlin more often and talk to people across the country. We can't be 'the ones sitting in Berlin'.”

The SPD chairman rejected the fact that his party would talk too much about gender and not enough about people's problems: "The only one I know who constantly talks about gender is Friedrich Merz. In the end, these useless debates on the sidelines only strengthen those who look at our society with contempt.”

At the same time, Klingbeil admitted that the strife in the traffic light was of use to the AfD. The ten-week dispute over the building energy law had contributed to uncertainty in the country. "It was too much, it was too loud. The AfD generally benefits from disputes and uncertainty," said Klingbeil.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Has population always been like that, or is the E being more sparsely populated a post-WW2 thing?

That depends on what you mean by sparsely populated.

The map and its description are misleading because what the map really shows are rural settlement patterns. Uninhabitated square kilometers are shown in white, whereas all other square kilometers are shown in dark red.
- Regions with mountains and large forests have a lot of white. These areas exist in both East and West.
- There are many flat and slightly hilly areas in the West with small hamlets or single farms on every square kilometer. In vast swathes of the East that have always been dominated by large estates the population is concentrated in the villages and the square kilometers inbetween are uninhabitated.

So the map would probably not have looked too different before WW2.

At the same time you are right that the population in the East is now lower than it was before WW2 and in the West it is now much higher than before WW2. Before WW2 the average population density in the West and in what is now the East were roughly equal. Interestingly in the most sparsely populated areas of the East (e.g. Mecklenburg-Vorpommern) the population gains due to refugee settlement after WW2 still exceed the losses during the last decades. The regions that really lost compared to before WW2 are the industrial areas in Saxony and parts of Thuringia and Saxony-Anhalt, but I don't think that it would show in less dark red areas. In the West on the other hand basically all areas have grown compared to before WW2, and often by a lot.

https://www.deviantart.com/robeatnix/art/Population-Density-of-Germany-and-Austria-1910-818312533
Relevant.

[NewYorkExpress]

AfD is doing really well at the moment, polling at record highs. On Sunday, they elected their first full time Mayor, Hannes Loth, in Raguhn-Jessnitz.

The Alternative for Germany (AfD) has surged to record highs in opinion polls, and the latest result comes just a week after they won their first district election.

Hannes Loth was elected mayor of the small town of Raguhn-Jessnitz, in the eastern state of Saxony-Anhalt, in a run-off against independent candidate Nils Naumann, according to results on the town’s Facebook page.

Loth, reportedly a 42-year-old farmer who was already a member of the local parliament, won 51.1 percent of the vote against 48.9 percent for Naumann in the town of about 9,000 inhabitants.

It marks the first time the party has won an election race for a full-time mayor’s position, German media reported.

[Cassius]

Today, Lars Klingbeil, one of the two co-chairs of the SPD, endorsed raising the minimum wage to 14.00 EUR per hour immediately by legislation.

Recently, the minimum wage commission, which is made up of a panel of representatives from labor unions, employer's associations, and economists and other experts, could not agree on a new minimum wage within the normal corporatist process, and hence the unions were outvoted when the commission voted to raise the minimum wage from the current 12.00 EUR per hour to 12.41 EUR per hour effective January 1st, 2024 and then 12.82 EUR per hour on January 1st, 2025.

For the first time in its history, the Minimum Wage Commission, whose decision is decisive for the statutory determination, did not agree on its recommendation at the beginning of the week. The employee representatives considered the increase to be too low, were outvoted, and raised serious allegations against the employers' side.

An increase of 41 cents per hour represents an increase of just 3.4%, while inflation has clocked in at approximately 8% over the past year in Germany.

Since the introduction of the statutory minimum wage in 2015, the commission has been superseded only once by the Bundestag: in early 2022, the Bundestag raised the minimum wage from 9.60 EUR per hour to 12.00 EUR per hour on October 1st in two steps.

Superseding the commission again is legally sound, but there is of course the worry that this is the cumulation of the long-predicted politicization of the minimum wage that was predicted back in 2015. The SPD, unions, and Greens have severely criticized the small increase, but I have not heard an official declaration from the Greens. Almost certainly they would support such an increase in the minimum wage. However, the FDP has immediately dismissed the increase.


Klingbeil has also announced a three-point plan to counteract the rise of AfD:

Klingbeil wants to fight the high polls of the AfD with a three-point plan for more citizen proximity. "We need three things. Firstly, good politics that tackle people's everyday problems. Wages, housing, pensions, affordable energy, these are the issues. Second: A political style that doesn't tell people how they should be, but takes seriously what's on their minds. And thirdly: get out of Berlin more often and talk to people across the country. We can't be 'the ones sitting in Berlin'.”

The SPD chairman rejected the fact that his party would talk too much about gender and not enough about people's problems: "The only one I know who constantly talks about gender is Friedrich Merz. In the end, these useless debates on the sidelines only strengthen those who look at our society with contempt.”

At the same time, Klingbeil admitted that the strife in the traffic light was of use to the AfD. The ten-week dispute over the building energy law had contributed to uncertainty in the country. "It was too much, it was too loud. The AfD generally benefits from disputes and uncertainty," said Klingbeil.

So Klingbeil's grand strategy is:

1) Waffel
2) Waffel
3) Und mehr waffel

[Middle-aged Europe]

AfD is doing really well at the moment, polling at record highs. On Sunday, they elected their first full time Mayor, Hannes Loth, in Raguhn-Jessnitz.

The Alternative for Germany (AfD) has surged to record highs in opinion polls, and the latest result comes just a week after they won their first district election.

Hannes Loth was elected mayor of the small town of Raguhn-Jessnitz, in the eastern state of Saxony-Anhalt, in a run-off against independent candidate Nils Naumann, according to results on the town’s Facebook page.

Loth, reportedly a 42-year-old farmer who was already a member of the local parliament, won 51.1 percent of the vote against 48.9 percent for Naumann in the town of about 9,000 inhabitants.

It marks the first time the party has won an election race for a full-time mayor’s position, German media reported.

Pretty "decent" fellow too, who manages to unite his party's anti-refugee stance with his party's pro-Putin stance.

"Home at heart. Only every tenth Ukrainian is working!!"

His attack on Ukrainian refugees does come across as a bit... "off", considering that the AfD higher-ups at the federal level don't usually consider that particular group as an "acceptable target". They tend to focus on Muslims and Africans there.


(Fact check: I haven't managed to find any recent numbers on Google right now, but in October 2022 the number had been closer to almost twice as much. Naturally you need to learn the language first in order to work. And there's a lot of red tape to cut through even when you are extremely eager to work, for example Ukrainian degrees and qualifications are not always easily accepted by the authorities or by employers. Male refugees from Ukraine also tend to be either minors or pensioners in  overwhelming numbers.)

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

The Federal Constitutional Court has slammed the brakes on final passage of the much-debated Building Energy Act (commonly described as the "Heating Law"), possibly jeopardizing its passage.

The original draft law was submitted to the Bundestag last Friday (June 30th), and final vote was scheduled for this coming Friday (July 7th), before the Bundestag goes on summer recess until late-August.

however, the CDU filed an emergency appeal to the Constitutional Court, which ruled that:

...the Bundestag should be prohibited from final deliberation and voting on the law if the draft law has not been submitted to the members of parliament in writing at least 14 days in advance.

This means that, if the Bundestag is not called to a special session, the law cannot be passed until the Bundestag reconvenes after summer.

[palandio]

Has population always been like that, or is the E being more sparsely populated a post-WW2 thing?

That depends on what you mean by sparsely populated.

The map and its description are misleading because what the map really shows are rural settlement patterns. Uninhabitated square kilometers are shown in white, whereas all other square kilometers are shown in dark red.
- Regions with mountains and large forests have a lot of white. These areas exist in both East and West.
- There are many flat and slightly hilly areas in the West with small hamlets or single farms on every square kilometer. In vast swathes of the East that have always been dominated by large estates the population is concentrated in the villages and the square kilometers inbetween are uninhabitated.

So the map would probably not have looked too different before WW2.

At the same time you are right that the population in the East is now lower than it was before WW2 and in the West it is now much higher than before WW2. Before WW2 the average population density in the West and in what is now the East were roughly equal. Interestingly in the most sparsely populated areas of the East (e.g. Mecklenburg-Vorpommern) the population gains due to refugee settlement after WW2 still exceed the losses during the last decades. The regions that really lost compared to before WW2 are the industrial areas in Saxony and parts of Thuringia and Saxony-Anhalt, but I don't think that it would show in less dark red areas. In the West on the other hand basically all areas have grown compared to before WW2, and often by a lot.

https://www.deviantart.com/robeatnix/art/Population-Density-of-Germany-and-Austria-1910-818312533
Relevant.

Good map, although for spotting total population concentrations it has similar flaws. A lot of the population is concentrated in the district-independent cities that usually have a very small area. Some states like Baden, Württemberg (apart from Stuttgart) and Hesse-Darmstadt had their cities incorporated into districts. This increases the density of the respective districts and the states don‘t suffer from the effect that I described before.

[Estrella]

I guess Linke saw AfD's successes and decided to drop the "we don't support Russia, but..." theatre and just go full Z.

https://twitter.com/Linksfraktion/status/1677002723114221579

NATO is a warmongering, expansionist alliance that tramples on international law and human rights. High time to dissolve this military pact. After 78 years, it is time for the US to withdraw its troops and nuclear weapons from Germany.

Bucha, Mariupol, Kakhovka, apartment bombings or kidnapped children? Not a word about it.

As an aside, it's fascinating how German far-right and far-left are indistinguishable in their borderline imperialist attitude towards the countries between Germany and Russia. In 1959, philosopher and Wehrmacht soldier Johannes Barnick wrote a book called German-Russian Neighbourhood. It was republished last year after the invasion. Fittingly so, as it perfectly describes not just AfD and Die Linke, but also many important figures in "mainstream" parties.

Between Germany and Russia there is the well-known "buffer zone" from the Baltic Sea to the Black Sea as the "most serious world political trouble spot". More than sixty years ago, Barnick warned that "an alliance of liberal West and East European nationalism" would mean a new encirclement for Germany - and, moreover, the danger of a Third World War. Germany is the tipping point when it comes to the balance between East and West. For Barnick, the order of the day in German-Russian relations would not be self-indulgent warmongering, but neutrality in the sense of backing. In a favorable case, the contested "buffer zone" is the mutual shield that belongs to no third party. The thesis of this brilliant stylist and prudent statistician of international power relations is: Europe is always doing well when German-Russian relations are doing well.

[Middle-aged Europe]

I guess Linke saw AfD's successes and decided to drop the "we don't support Russia, but..." theatre and just go full Z.

https://twitter.com/Linksfraktion/status/1677002723114221579

NATO is a warmongering, expansionist alliance that tramples on international law and human rights. High time to dissolve this military pact. After 78 years, it is time for the US to withdraw its troops and nuclear weapons from Germany.

Bucha, Mariupol, Kakhovka, apartment bombings or kidnapped children? Not a word about it.

As an aside, it's fascinating how German far-right and far-left are indistinguishable in their borderline imperialist attitude towards the countries between Germany and Russia. In 1959, philosopher and Wehrmacht soldier Johannes Barnick wrote a book called German-Russian Neighbourhood. It was republished last year after the invasion. Fittingly so, as it perfectly describes not just AfD and Die Linke, but also many important figures in "mainstream" parties.

Between Germany and Russia there is the well-known "buffer zone" from the Baltic Sea to the Black Sea as the "most serious world political trouble spot". More than sixty years ago, Barnick warned that "an alliance of liberal West and East European nationalism" would mean a new encirclement for Germany - and, moreover, the danger of a Third World War. Germany is the tipping point when it comes to the balance between East and West. For Barnick, the order of the day in German-Russian relations would not be self-indulgent warmongering, but neutrality in the sense of backing. In a favorable case, the contested "buffer zone" is the mutual shield that belongs to no third party. The thesis of this brilliant stylist and prudent statistician of international power relations is: Europe is always doing well when German-Russian relations are doing well.

Sevim Dagdelen is a full-on Wagenknechtian, so no surprise here. Still doesn't explain why the Left Party caucus' social media team decided to feature her so prominently.

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

SPD loses Mannheim mayoral post for the first time in 50 years to CDU, 49.9% to 48.7%

[CumbrianLefty]

SPD loses Mannheim mayoral post for the first time in 50 years to CDU, 49.9% to 48.7%

Which was actually a bit closer than expected.

[Storr]

A map I saw on twitter:

https://twitter.com/simongerman600/status/1672955310066073601?s=20

Bonn isn't even labeled.  Truly remarkable for being a former Capital.

A history youtuber I enjoy made a short video about why Bonn was chosen as the FRG's capital:


- Bonn wasn't heavily damaged in the war unlike nearly all larger cities in the Allied occupation zone, so it was established as the temporary capital when the FRG was established in 1949 .

Eventually it was decided to keep the capital in Bonn because:

. Adenauer didn't want to move the capital to a larger city in order to avoid making Germany's division appear permanent.

- The city had no strong assocaition with Nazism or Hitler (unlike Munich for example).

- There was little (and soon none because the British had no money) foreign military presence in the city

- I kid you not: it was only 20 minutes from Adenauer's house.

- Since the government was already established there, it was decided it wasn't worth the effort and expense to move the capital to a larger city.

[Middle-aged Europe]

A map I saw on twitter:

https://twitter.com/simongerman600/status/1672955310066073601?s=20

Bonn isn't even labeled.  Truly remarkable for being a former Capital.

A history youtuber I enjoy made a short video about why Bonn was chosen as the FRG's capital:


- Bonn wasn't heavily damaged in the war unlike nearly all larger cities in the Allied occupation zone, so it was established as the temporary capital when the FRG was established in 1949 .

Eventually it was decided to keep the capital in Bonn because:

. Adenauer didn't want to move the capital to a larger city in order to avoid making Germany's division appear permanent.

- The city had no strong assocaition with Nazism or Hitler (unlike Munich for example).

- There was little (and soon none because the British had no money) foreign military presence in the city

- I kid you not: it was only 20 minutes from Adenauer's house.

- Since the government was already established there, it was decided it wasn't worth the effort and expense to move the capital to a larger city.

To this day, Bonn functions as the primary seat for six of the federal government's ministries (defence, agriculture, health, environment, education, foreign aid) as well as the secondary seat for all the other ministries. As such, Bonn is officially designated as a "federal city" as opposed to Berlin's status as a federal capital.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

A map I saw on twitter:

https://twitter.com/simongerman600/status/1672955310066073601?s=20

Bonn isn't even labeled.  Truly remarkable for being a former Capital.

A history youtuber I enjoy made a short video about why Bonn was chosen as the FRG's capital:


- Bonn wasn't heavily damaged in the war unlike nearly all larger cities in the Allied occupation zone, so it was established as the temporary capital when the FRG was established in 1949 .

Eventually it was decided to keep the capital in Bonn because:

. Adenauer didn't want to move the capital to a larger city in order to avoid making Germany's division appear permanent.

- The city had no strong assocaition with Nazism or Hitler (unlike Munich for example).

- There was little (and soon none because the British had no money) foreign military presence in the city

- I kid you not: it was only 20 minutes from Adenauer's house.

- Since the government was already established there, it was decided it wasn't worth the effort and expense to move the capital to a larger city.

To this day, Bonn functions as the primary seat for six of the federal government's ministries (defence, agriculture, health, environment, education, foreign aid) as well as the secondary seat for all the other ministries. As such, Bonn is officially designated as a "federal city" as opposed to Berlin's status as a federal capital.

Would it be fair to say that the vibe of the city is still dominated by its role as a major governmental center?

[Middle-aged Europe]

A map I saw on twitter:

https://twitter.com/simongerman600/status/1672955310066073601?s=20

Bonn isn't even labeled.  Truly remarkable for being a former Capital.

A history youtuber I enjoy made a short video about why Bonn was chosen as the FRG's capital:


- Bonn wasn't heavily damaged in the war unlike nearly all larger cities in the Allied occupation zone, so it was established as the temporary capital when the FRG was established in 1949 .

Eventually it was decided to keep the capital in Bonn because:

. Adenauer didn't want to move the capital to a larger city in order to avoid making Germany's division appear permanent.

- The city had no strong assocaition with Nazism or Hitler (unlike Munich for example).

- There was little (and soon none because the British had no money) foreign military presence in the city

- I kid you not: it was only 20 minutes from Adenauer's house.

- Since the government was already established there, it was decided it wasn't worth the effort and expense to move the capital to a larger city.

To this day, Bonn functions as the primary seat for six of the federal government's ministries (defence, agriculture, health, environment, education, foreign aid) as well as the secondary seat for all the other ministries. As such, Bonn is officially designated as a "federal city" as opposed to Berlin's status as a federal capital.

Would it be fair to say that the vibe of the city is still dominated by its role as a major governmental center?

Never been there myself, but currently the city is mostly known for housing a couple of government ministries.  Nobody really knows what else is there.

[Mr. Smith]

A map I saw on twitter:

https://twitter.com/simongerman600/status/1672955310066073601?s=20

Bonn isn't even labeled.  Truly remarkable for being a former Capital.

A history youtuber I enjoy made a short video about why Bonn was chosen as the FRG's capital:


- Bonn wasn't heavily damaged in the war unlike nearly all larger cities in the Allied occupation zone, so it was established as the temporary capital when the FRG was established in 1949 .

Eventually it was decided to keep the capital in Bonn because:

. Adenauer didn't want to move the capital to a larger city in order to avoid making Germany's division appear permanent.

- The city had no strong assocaition with Nazism or Hitler (unlike Munich for example).

- There was little (and soon none because the British had no money) foreign military presence in the city

- I kid you not: it was only 20 minutes from Adenauer's house.

- Since the government was already established there, it was decided it wasn't worth the effort and expense to move the capital to a larger city.

To this day, Bonn functions as the primary seat for six of the federal government's ministries (defence, agriculture, health, environment, education, foreign aid) as well as the secondary seat for all the other ministries. As such, Bonn is officially designated as a "federal city" as opposed to Berlin's status as a federal capital.

And yet it doesn't get a separate Bundesland like Bremen or Hamburg [let alone Berlin].

[Middle-aged Europe]

A map I saw on twitter:

https://twitter.com/simongerman600/status/1672955310066073601?s=20

Bonn isn't even labeled.  Truly remarkable for being a former Capital.

A history youtuber I enjoy made a short video about why Bonn was chosen as the FRG's capital:


- Bonn wasn't heavily damaged in the war unlike nearly all larger cities in the Allied occupation zone, so it was established as the temporary capital when the FRG was established in 1949 .

Eventually it was decided to keep the capital in Bonn because:

. Adenauer didn't want to move the capital to a larger city in order to avoid making Germany's division appear permanent.

- The city had no strong assocaition with Nazism or Hitler (unlike Munich for example).

- There was little (and soon none because the British had no money) foreign military presence in the city

- I kid you not: it was only 20 minutes from Adenauer's house.

- Since the government was already established there, it was decided it wasn't worth the effort and expense to move the capital to a larger city.

To this day, Bonn functions as the primary seat for six of the federal government's ministries (defence, agriculture, health, environment, education, foreign aid) as well as the secondary seat for all the other ministries. As such, Bonn is officially designated as a "federal city" as opposed to Berlin's status as a federal capital.

And yet it doesn't get a separate Bundesland like Bremen or Hamburg [let alone Berlin].

Bonn would by far be the smallest state, both area and population-wise.

Despite its small population, Bonn would be entitled to three votes in the Bundesrat, the same number as Hamburg or Mecklenburg-Vorpommern... and half as much as North Rhine-Westphalia, the state it currently belongs to.

According to the constitution, changes in the make-up of the German states are subject to a referendum in the affected state(s), this means the majority of the population in the current state of North Rhine-Westphalia would need to approve of the change.

[Yeahsayyeah]

Of course, if there was really a political desire for a "state of Bonn", there would probably be a new article in the constitution defining special rules (as was done with the planned Berlin/Brandenburg fusion).

I don't know if it was addressed in the video (it wasn't mentioned in the poll), but fake news and bribery played a part in making Bonn seat of government instead of Frankfurt.

[Lechasseur]

I thought Bonn was made capital because :
-It was near Cologne (the largest city in the largest state of NRW, and Adenauer's hometown)
-It wasn't as damaged as other cities during the War (and thus had buildings to house the government, I believe this is the reason why Wiesbaden is capital of Hessen)
-And also given a lot of politicians ultimately wanted to return the capital to Berlin, that that would be easier from Bonn than from Frankfurt.