Israeli General Election (2nd of March, 2020): Madness

[Walmart_shopper]

Netanyahu just forfeited his immunity. going straight to trial

Bye felicia.

[Hnv1]

Netanyahu just forfeited his immunity. going straight to trial

While Gantz is on the plane back from DC

which is ridiculous as you were just claiming you wanted to put the politics aside in this historic moment. what a muppet

[Hnv1]

Netanyahu is now officially indicted with the District Court of Jerusalem having both territorial and subject-matter jurisdiction. As the law dictates that a PM's trial is in front of trio tribunal it is now going to be a big bet on who the judges will be. The court in Jerusalem has quite a lot of right wingers, some are fine and excellent jurist like Winograd, some are more partisan like Zandberg. Interestingly the wife of Yuval Steinitz is a judge of that court, but she will obviously sit this one out.

It will obviously include the court's president Farkash who is right leaning, one of his deputies, and a more criminally oriented judge. Netanyahu did well, if he were to be forced out before he would have stood trial before the court in Tel Aviv which is less favorable to him

[jaymichaud]

So... what’s the next step?

[Hnv1]

So... what’s the next step?

The prosecutor sends the evidence to the defendants lawyers, in some cases there can be a pretrial to narrow the scope of questions though I doubt this will happen here, and then you have the reading which is the formal start of the trial. when that happens depends on the court secretary (by my lawyer experience usually old crones who chain smoke Marlboro Red). but I assume it will be 2-3 months. As Bibi has a lot of preliminary arguments it will take sometime before the prosecution begins bringing witnesses and such.

[Walmart_shopper]

Netanyahu is now officially indicted with the District Court of Jerusalem having both territorial and subject-matter jurisdiction. As the law dictates that a PM's trial is in front of trio tribunal it is now going to be a big bet on who the judges will be. The court in Jerusalem has quite a lot of right wingers, some are fine and excellent jurist like Winograd, some are more partisan like Zandberg. Interestingly the wife of Yuval Steinitz is a judge of that court, but she will obviously sit this one out.

It will obviously include the court's president Farkash who is right leaning, one of his deputies, and a more criminally oriented judge. Netanyahu did well, if he were to be forced out before he would have stood trial before the court in Tel Aviv which is less favorable to him

Mandelblit is a boss. He dropped the indictment when Bibi was in Washington hoping to distract everyone with a shiny but basically fake peace plan served on a platter Trump-style. All of a sudden the joke of the century is pushed to the margins and everyone talking about Bibi's corruption again. It makes Gantz look even more beautiful for indulging Trump even though everyone knows Israel will be a very different country in just over a month from now and any peace plan would have to reflect that new reality and wouldn't involve Bibi Netanyahu.

[Hnv1]

I’m going to carefully say that I think Gantz lost the elections yesterday. JL voter turnout is going to dip and the right wing won’t move now. It will either be a unity government of a 4th run.

[Walmart_shopper]

I’m going to carefully say that I think Gantz lost the elections yesterday. JL voter turnout is going to dip and the right wing won’t move now. It will either be a unity government of a 4th run.

No, I think exactly the opposite. I think Bibi and Trump lit a bomb underneath the right wing and Gantz was smart enough to quickly get out of the way before it goes off. I also think it will energize rather than depress Arab turnout.

What do you think Gantz did wrong?

[Hnv1]

I’m going to carefully say that I think Gantz lost the elections yesterday. JL voter turnout is going to dip and the right wing won’t move now. It will either be a unity government of a 4th run.

No, I think exactly the opposite. I think Bibi and Trump lit a bomb underneath the right wing and Gantz was smart enough to quickly get out of the way before it goes off. I also think it will energize rather than depress Arab turnout.

What do you think Gantz did wrong?

Gantz was in a bit of a pickle here. this was Bibi's show and he was working on it for more than 2 years. he foolishly entered the right wing contest with Likud, but maybe that's wisdom in hindsight.

Arab turnout will go down, now they don't see a difference between them and there's no great urgency in replacing Bibi for the ex-general. and now he also lost their recommendations. also Bibi flanked him from the right, he now can't offer NR or Shas anything to pull them away from the bloc, plus Bibi can pressure YB into a government now under some strategic pretense.

Where did Gantz go wrong? well he (his crew headed by Yoram) working brilliantly tactically, doing a quid for quo with Likud. But Bibi is a man of strategy, he knew he can pull this rabbit out at anytime.
in hindsight letting Hendel and Hauser screw the minority government option ended him, and then moving the discussion into the annexation a week ago was even more foolish.

I think he will be forced into a unity government with YB in as well as some grand national unity government for the annexation and coming Intifada.

[Hnv1]

Oh and there's no bomb lit under the right. Bennet is speaking out out of habit more than anything, everyone knows no Palestinian stat will form. There will be some annexation but no return for the Palestinians. This isn't a peace plan its the burial of the 2SS Bibi has been working on for three decades. 

[jaymichaud]

I’m going to carefully say that I think Gantz lost the elections yesterday. JL voter turnout is going to dip and the right wing won’t move now. It will either be a unity government of a 4th run.

No, I think exactly the opposite. I think Bibi and Trump lit a bomb underneath the right wing and Gantz was smart enough to quickly get out of the way before it goes off. I also think it will energize rather than depress Arab turnout.

What do you think Gantz did wrong?

Yeah I agree with you on that one. Not gonna talk about the haredim as they don’t really fit into the equation, but there was no way Yamina would accept this proposal (or any proposal that includes a Palestinian state) which sows more division in the right wing bloc.

If anything I can see them gaining votes from this as they’ll use it to cement their status as truly the only “one state solution” party.

[Oryxslayer]

You know what I think? I think that this won't even matter. We are one month out from the actual polling day, and that's enough time for people to forget about what happened in Washington and change their vote to one that reflects the situation in a month. To this end, we have no idea what the situation will be in a month.

[jaymichaud]

You know what I think? I think that this won't even matter. We are one month out from the actual polling day, and that's enough time for people to forget about what happened in Washington and change their vote to one that reflects the situation in a month. To this end, we have no idea what the situation will be in a month.

Hmm yeah tbh this whole series of election cycles just shows how fickle politics can be. You can be on top of the world one day then totally irrelevant the next. Your career can be almost over one day then you’re calling the shots the next. Expect nothing.

[Walmart_shopper]

I’m going to carefully say that I think Gantz lost the elections yesterday. JL voter turnout is going to dip and the right wing won’t move now. It will either be a unity government of a 4th run.

No, I think exactly the opposite. I think Bibi and Trump lit a bomb underneath the right wing and Gantz was smart enough to quickly get out of the way before it goes off. I also think it will energize rather than depress Arab turnout.

What do you think Gantz did wrong?

Gantz was in a bit of a pickle here. this was Bibi's show and he was working on it for more than 2 years. he foolishly entered the right wing contest with Likud, but maybe that's wisdom in hindsight.

Arab turnout will go down, now they don't see a difference between them and there's no great urgency in replacing Bibi for the ex-general. and now he also lost their recommendations. also Bibi flanked him from the right, he now can't offer NR or Shas anything to pull them away from the bloc, plus Bibi can pressure YB into a government now under some strategic pretense.

Where did Gantz go wrong? well he (his crew headed by Yoram) working brilliantly tactically, doing a quid for quo with Likud. But Bibi is a man of strategy, he knew he can pull this rabbit out at anytime.
in hindsight letting Hendel and Hauser screw the minority government option ended him, and then moving the discussion into the annexation a week ago was even more foolish.

I think he will be forced into a unity government with YB in as well as some grand national unity government for the annexation and coming Intifada.

Embracing the plan is a step to the left and not right for not only Gantz and not Bibi. Netanyahu has since Bar Ilan used as a campaign centerpiece the idea that only he can prevent a Palestinian state. Now he vocally supports one. Gantz has explicitly refused to endorse the 2 state solution. Now he vocally supports is. You are absolutely correct that the Trump plan is an immoral catastrophe for the Palestnians. But the point is that not only does everyone realize that it will never be actualized but that even if it were it would still be an improvement on the apartheid-like madness that currently exists.

But I actually think it's a real mistake to assume that Arab voters are mainly or even especially fixated on the Palestine question.  The reason that Arab voters sat out the April election was, in part, a belief that tbe Arab parties were more concerned with Palestinians than Arab voters in Israel. Arab voters oppose Netanyahu and the fantatical right not only because the apartheidal treatment of Palestinians, but mainly because Arabs can't build just and hope-filled communities in Israel because they face racism and discrimination. It stinks that Palestinians can't have a state. It stinks even more that THIS state is shrugging at historic gun violence in Arab towns simply because they are Arab towns. It's grossly wrong that Palestinians can't access shipling ports. It's even worse that the nation state law opens up the door to prevent Arabs in Israel fron accessing affordable housing, decent infrastructure, and the keys to economic success.

If I were Gantz I probably would have played this differently. But I certainly don't think that doing the way he did will hurt him. As I said, I think it is far more likely to open up divisions on the right rather than left.

[Hnv1]

I’m going to carefully say that I think Gantz lost the elections yesterday. JL voter turnout is going to dip and the right wing won’t move now. It will either be a unity government of a 4th run.

No, I think exactly the opposite. I think Bibi and Trump lit a bomb underneath the right wing and Gantz was smart enough to quickly get out of the way before it goes off. I also think it will energize rather than depress Arab turnout.

What do you think Gantz did wrong?

Gantz was in a bit of a pickle here. this was Bibi's show and he was working on it for more than 2 years. he foolishly entered the right wing contest with Likud, but maybe that's wisdom in hindsight.

Arab turnout will go down, now they don't see a difference between them and there's no great urgency in replacing Bibi for the ex-general. and now he also lost their recommendations. also Bibi flanked him from the right, he now can't offer NR or Shas anything to pull them away from the bloc, plus Bibi can pressure YB into a government now under some strategic pretense.

Where did Gantz go wrong? well he (his crew headed by Yoram) working brilliantly tactically, doing a quid for quo with Likud. But Bibi is a man of strategy, he knew he can pull this rabbit out at anytime.
in hindsight letting Hendel and Hauser screw the minority government option ended him, and then moving the discussion into the annexation a week ago was even more foolish.

I think he will be forced into a unity government with YB in as well as some grand national unity government for the annexation and coming Intifada.

Embracing the plan is a step to the left and not right for not only Gantz and not Bibi. Netanyahu has since Bar Ilan used as a campaign centerpiece the idea that only he can prevent a Palestinian state. Now he vocally supports one. Gantz has explicitly refused to endorse the 2 state solution. Now he vocally supports is. You are absolutely correct that the Trump plan is an immoral catastrophe for the Palestnians. But the point is that not only does everyone realize that it will never be actualized but that even if it were it would still be an improvement on the apartheid-like madness that currently exists.

But I actually think it's a real mistake to assume that Arab voters are mainly or even especially fixated on the Palestine question.  The reason that Arab voters sat out the April election was, in part, a belief that tbe Arab parties were more concerned with Palestinians than Arab voters in Israel. Arab voters oppose Netanyahu and the fantatical right not only because the apartheidal treatment of Palestinians, but mainly because Arabs can't build just and hope-filled communities in Israel because they face racism and discrimination. It stinks that Palestinians can't have a state. It stinks even more that THIS state is shrugging at historic gun violence in Arab towns simply because they are Arab towns. It's grossly wrong that Palestinians can't access shipling ports. It's even worse that the nation state law opens up the door to prevent Arabs in Israel fron accessing affordable housing, decent infrastructure, and the keys to economic success.

If I were Gantz I probably would have played this differently. But I certainly don't think that doing the way he did will hurt him. As I said, I think it is far more likely to open up divisions on the right rather than left.

I don’t think this plan is a 2SS because the Palestine envisioned there isn’t really a state. It’s Bibi’s motto “State Minus”.

I think Arab voter turnout who have gone down anyhow, but I think the major issue here is that Gantz supported a plan that might espouse population swap which is racist and offensive to many Arab voters (quite rightly).

[Walmart_shopper]

I’m going to carefully say that I think Gantz lost the elections yesterday. JL voter turnout is going to dip and the right wing won’t move now. It will either be a unity government of a 4th run.

No, I think exactly the opposite. I think Bibi and Trump lit a bomb underneath the right wing and Gantz was smart enough to quickly get out of the way before it goes off. I also think it will energize rather than depress Arab turnout.

What do you think Gantz did wrong?

Gantz was in a bit of a pickle here. this was Bibi's show and he was working on it for more than 2 years. he foolishly entered the right wing contest with Likud, but maybe that's wisdom in hindsight.

Arab turnout will go down, now they don't see a difference between them and there's no great urgency in replacing Bibi for the ex-general. and now he also lost their recommendations. also Bibi flanked him from the right, he now can't offer NR or Shas anything to pull them away from the bloc, plus Bibi can pressure YB into a government now under some strategic pretense.

Where did Gantz go wrong? well he (his crew headed by Yoram) working brilliantly tactically, doing a quid for quo with Likud. But Bibi is a man of strategy, he knew he can pull this rabbit out at anytime.
in hindsight letting Hendel and Hauser screw the minority government option ended him, and then moving the discussion into the annexation a week ago was even more foolish.

I think he will be forced into a unity government with YB in as well as some grand national unity government for the annexation and coming Intifada.

Embracing the plan is a step to the left and not right for not only Gantz and not Bibi. Netanyahu has since Bar Ilan used as a campaign centerpiece the idea that only he can prevent a Palestinian state. Now he vocally supports one. Gantz has explicitly refused to endorse the 2 state solution. Now he vocally supports is. You are absolutely correct that the Trump plan is an immoral catastrophe for the Palestnians. But the point is that not only does everyone realize that it will never be actualized but that even if it were it would still be an improvement on the apartheid-like madness that currently exists.

But I actually think it's a real mistake to assume that Arab voters are mainly or even especially fixated on the Palestine question.  The reason that Arab voters sat out the April election was, in part, a belief that tbe Arab parties were more concerned with Palestinians than Arab voters in Israel. Arab voters oppose Netanyahu and the fantatical right not only because the apartheidal treatment of Palestinians, but mainly because Arabs can't build just and hope-filled communities in Israel because they face racism and discrimination. It stinks that Palestinians can't have a state. It stinks even more that THIS state is shrugging at historic gun violence in Arab towns simply because they are Arab towns. It's grossly wrong that Palestinians can't access shipling ports. It's even worse that the nation state law opens up the door to prevent Arabs in Israel fron accessing affordable housing, decent infrastructure, and the keys to economic success.

If I were Gantz I probably would have played this differently. But I certainly don't think that doing the way he did will hurt him. As I said, I think it is far more likely to open up divisions on the right rather than left.

I don’t think this plan is a 2SS because the Palestine envisioned there isn’t really a state. It’s Bibi’s motto “State Minus”.

I think Arab voter turnout who have gone down anyhow, but I think the major issue here is that Gantz supported a plan that might espouse population swap which is racist and offensive to many Arab voters (quite rightly).

Yeah, I didn't realize that Umm al Fahm and other Arab towns in the north would be transfered to the new Palestinian quasi-state under the plan. And now Gantz wants to approve the plan even before election day.

This country...smh.

[jaymichaud]

I’m going to carefully say that I think Gantz lost the elections yesterday. JL voter turnout is going to dip and the right wing won’t move now. It will either be a unity government of a 4th run.

No, I think exactly the opposite. I think Bibi and Trump lit a bomb underneath the right wing and Gantz was smart enough to quickly get out of the way before it goes off. I also think it will energize rather than depress Arab turnout.

What do you think Gantz did wrong?

Gantz was in a bit of a pickle here. this was Bibi's show and he was working on it for more than 2 years. he foolishly entered the right wing contest with Likud, but maybe that's wisdom in hindsight.

Arab turnout will go down, now they don't see a difference between them and there's no great urgency in replacing Bibi for the ex-general. and now he also lost their recommendations. also Bibi flanked him from the right, he now can't offer NR or Shas anything to pull them away from the bloc, plus Bibi can pressure YB into a government now under some strategic pretense.

Where did Gantz go wrong? well he (his crew headed by Yoram) working brilliantly tactically, doing a quid for quo with Likud. But Bibi is a man of strategy, he knew he can pull this rabbit out at anytime.
in hindsight letting Hendel and Hauser screw the minority government option ended him, and then moving the discussion into the annexation a week ago was even more foolish.

I think he will be forced into a unity government with YB in as well as some grand national unity government for the annexation and coming Intifada.

Embracing the plan is a step to the left and not right for not only Gantz and not Bibi. Netanyahu has since Bar Ilan used as a campaign centerpiece the idea that only he can prevent a Palestinian state. Now he vocally supports one. Gantz has explicitly refused to endorse the 2 state solution. Now he vocally supports is. You are absolutely correct that the Trump plan is an immoral catastrophe for the Palestnians. But the point is that not only does everyone realize that it will never be actualized but that even if it were it would still be an improvement on the apartheid-like madness that currently exists.

But I actually think it's a real mistake to assume that Arab voters are mainly or even especially fixated on the Palestine question.  The reason that Arab voters sat out the April election was, in part, a belief that tbe Arab parties were more concerned with Palestinians than Arab voters in Israel. Arab voters oppose Netanyahu and the fantatical right not only because the apartheidal treatment of Palestinians, but mainly because Arabs can't build just and hope-filled communities in Israel because they face racism and discrimination. It stinks that Palestinians can't have a state. It stinks even more that THIS state is shrugging at historic gun violence in Arab towns simply because they are Arab towns. It's grossly wrong that Palestinians can't access shipling ports. It's even worse that the nation state law opens up the door to prevent Arabs in Israel fron accessing affordable housing, decent infrastructure, and the keys to economic success.

If I were Gantz I probably would have played this differently. But I certainly don't think that doing the way he did will hurt him. As I said, I think it is far more likely to open up divisions on the right rather than left.

I don’t think this plan is a 2SS because the Palestine envisioned there isn’t really a state. It’s Bibi’s motto “State Minus”.

I think Arab voter turnout who have gone down anyhow, but I think the major issue here is that Gantz supported a plan that might espouse population swap which is racist and offensive to many Arab voters (quite rightly).

Yeah, I didn't realize that Umm al Fahm and other Arab towns in the north would be transfered to the new Palestinian quasi-state under the plan. And now Gantz wants to approve the plan even before election day.

This country...smh.

The Palestinians taking Umm Al Fahm is justified, honestly.

[Hnv1]

I’m going to carefully say that I think Gantz lost the elections yesterday. JL voter turnout is going to dip and the right wing won’t move now. It will either be a unity government of a 4th run.

No, I think exactly the opposite. I think Bibi and Trump lit a bomb underneath the right wing and Gantz was smart enough to quickly get out of the way before it goes off. I also think it will energize rather than depress Arab turnout.

What do you think Gantz did wrong?

Gantz was in a bit of a pickle here. this was Bibi's show and he was working on it for more than 2 years. he foolishly entered the right wing contest with Likud, but maybe that's wisdom in hindsight.

Arab turnout will go down, now they don't see a difference between them and there's no great urgency in replacing Bibi for the ex-general. and now he also lost their recommendations. also Bibi flanked him from the right, he now can't offer NR or Shas anything to pull them away from the bloc, plus Bibi can pressure YB into a government now under some strategic pretense.

Where did Gantz go wrong? well he (his crew headed by Yoram) working brilliantly tactically, doing a quid for quo with Likud. But Bibi is a man of strategy, he knew he can pull this rabbit out at anytime.
in hindsight letting Hendel and Hauser screw the minority government option ended him, and then moving the discussion into the annexation a week ago was even more foolish.

I think he will be forced into a unity government with YB in as well as some grand national unity government for the annexation and coming Intifada.

Embracing the plan is a step to the left and not right for not only Gantz and not Bibi. Netanyahu has since Bar Ilan used as a campaign centerpiece the idea that only he can prevent a Palestinian state. Now he vocally supports one. Gantz has explicitly refused to endorse the 2 state solution. Now he vocally supports is. You are absolutely correct that the Trump plan is an immoral catastrophe for the Palestnians. But the point is that not only does everyone realize that it will never be actualized but that even if it were it would still be an improvement on the apartheid-like madness that currently exists.

But I actually think it's a real mistake to assume that Arab voters are mainly or even especially fixated on the Palestine question.  The reason that Arab voters sat out the April election was, in part, a belief that tbe Arab parties were more concerned with Palestinians than Arab voters in Israel. Arab voters oppose Netanyahu and the fantatical right not only because the apartheidal treatment of Palestinians, but mainly because Arabs can't build just and hope-filled communities in Israel because they face racism and discrimination. It stinks that Palestinians can't have a state. It stinks even more that THIS state is shrugging at historic gun violence in Arab towns simply because they are Arab towns. It's grossly wrong that Palestinians can't access shipling ports. It's even worse that the nation state law opens up the door to prevent Arabs in Israel fron accessing affordable housing, decent infrastructure, and the keys to economic success.

If I were Gantz I probably would have played this differently. But I certainly don't think that doing the way he did will hurt him. As I said, I think it is far more likely to open up divisions on the right rather than left.

I don’t think this plan is a 2SS because the Palestine envisioned there isn’t really a state. It’s Bibi’s motto “State Minus”.

I think Arab voter turnout who have gone down anyhow, but I think the major issue here is that Gantz supported a plan that might espouse population swap which is racist and offensive to many Arab voters (quite rightly).

Yeah, I didn't realize that Umm al Fahm and other Arab towns in the north would be transfered to the new Palestinian quasi-state under the plan. And now Gantz wants to approve the plan even before election day.

This country...smh.

The Palestinians taking Umm Al Fahm is justified, honestly.

Why don't we ask the residents of Umm Al Fahm before we change their citizenship without consent?

[Walmart_shopper]

I’m going to carefully say that I think Gantz lost the elections yesterday. JL voter turnout is going to dip and the right wing won’t move now. It will either be a unity government of a 4th run.

No, I think exactly the opposite. I think Bibi and Trump lit a bomb underneath the right wing and Gantz was smart enough to quickly get out of the way before it goes off. I also think it will energize rather than depress Arab turnout.

What do you think Gantz did wrong?

Gantz was in a bit of a pickle here. this was Bibi's show and he was working on it for more than 2 years. he foolishly entered the right wing contest with Likud, but maybe that's wisdom in hindsight.

Arab turnout will go down, now they don't see a difference between them and there's no great urgency in replacing Bibi for the ex-general. and now he also lost their recommendations. also Bibi flanked him from the right, he now can't offer NR or Shas anything to pull them away from the bloc, plus Bibi can pressure YB into a government now under some strategic pretense.

Where did Gantz go wrong? well he (his crew headed by Yoram) working brilliantly tactically, doing a quid for quo with Likud. But Bibi is a man of strategy, he knew he can pull this rabbit out at anytime.
in hindsight letting Hendel and Hauser screw the minority government option ended him, and then moving the discussion into the annexation a week ago was even more foolish.

I think he will be forced into a unity government with YB in as well as some grand national unity government for the annexation and coming Intifada.

Embracing the plan is a step to the left and not right for not only Gantz and not Bibi. Netanyahu has since Bar Ilan used as a campaign centerpiece the idea that only he can prevent a Palestinian state. Now he vocally supports one. Gantz has explicitly refused to endorse the 2 state solution. Now he vocally supports is. You are absolutely correct that the Trump plan is an immoral catastrophe for the Palestnians. But the point is that not only does everyone realize that it will never be actualized but that even if it were it would still be an improvement on the apartheid-like madness that currently exists.

But I actually think it's a real mistake to assume that Arab voters are mainly or even especially fixated on the Palestine question.  The reason that Arab voters sat out the April election was, in part, a belief that tbe Arab parties were more concerned with Palestinians than Arab voters in Israel. Arab voters oppose Netanyahu and the fantatical right not only because the apartheidal treatment of Palestinians, but mainly because Arabs can't build just and hope-filled communities in Israel because they face racism and discrimination. It stinks that Palestinians can't have a state. It stinks even more that THIS state is shrugging at historic gun violence in Arab towns simply because they are Arab towns. It's grossly wrong that Palestinians can't access shipling ports. It's even worse that the nation state law opens up the door to prevent Arabs in Israel fron accessing affordable housing, decent infrastructure, and the keys to economic success.

If I were Gantz I probably would have played this differently. But I certainly don't think that doing the way he did will hurt him. As I said, I think it is far more likely to open up divisions on the right rather than left.

I don’t think this plan is a 2SS because the Palestine envisioned there isn’t really a state. It’s Bibi’s motto “State Minus”.

I think Arab voter turnout who have gone down anyhow, but I think the major issue here is that Gantz supported a plan that might espouse population swap which is racist and offensive to many Arab voters (quite rightly).

Yeah, I didn't realize that Umm al Fahm and other Arab towns in the north would be transfered to the new Palestinian quasi-state under the plan. And now Gantz wants to approve the plan even before election day.

This country...smh.

The Palestinians taking Umm Al Fahm is justified, honestly.

Why don't we ask the residents of Umm Al Fahm before we change their citizenship without consent?

That's the point. I am not a huge fan of uprooting settlers from their homes, either, by the way. But at leaat thet don't lose their citizenship when that happens. The insane "transfer" ideology is simply ethnic cleansing, and for Israelis of all people to champion an ideology like that is breathtakingly sick.

[jaymichaud]

I’m going to carefully say that I think Gantz lost the elections yesterday. JL voter turnout is going to dip and the right wing won’t move now. It will either be a unity government of a 4th run.

No, I think exactly the opposite. I think Bibi and Trump lit a bomb underneath the right wing and Gantz was smart enough to quickly get out of the way before it goes off. I also think it will energize rather than depress Arab turnout.

What do you think Gantz did wrong?

Gantz was in a bit of a pickle here. this was Bibi's show and he was working on it for more than 2 years. he foolishly entered the right wing contest with Likud, but maybe that's wisdom in hindsight.

Arab turnout will go down, now they don't see a difference between them and there's no great urgency in replacing Bibi for the ex-general. and now he also lost their recommendations. also Bibi flanked him from the right, he now can't offer NR or Shas anything to pull them away from the bloc, plus Bibi can pressure YB into a government now under some strategic pretense.

Where did Gantz go wrong? well he (his crew headed by Yoram) working brilliantly tactically, doing a quid for quo with Likud. But Bibi is a man of strategy, he knew he can pull this rabbit out at anytime.
in hindsight letting Hendel and Hauser screw the minority government option ended him, and then moving the discussion into the annexation a week ago was even more foolish.

I think he will be forced into a unity government with YB in as well as some grand national unity government for the annexation and coming Intifada.

Embracing the plan is a step to the left and not right for not only Gantz and not Bibi. Netanyahu has since Bar Ilan used as a campaign centerpiece the idea that only he can prevent a Palestinian state. Now he vocally supports one. Gantz has explicitly refused to endorse the 2 state solution. Now he vocally supports is. You are absolutely correct that the Trump plan is an immoral catastrophe for the Palestnians. But the point is that not only does everyone realize that it will never be actualized but that even if it were it would still be an improvement on the apartheid-like madness that currently exists.

But I actually think it's a real mistake to assume that Arab voters are mainly or even especially fixated on the Palestine question.  The reason that Arab voters sat out the April election was, in part, a belief that tbe Arab parties were more concerned with Palestinians than Arab voters in Israel. Arab voters oppose Netanyahu and the fantatical right not only because the apartheidal treatment of Palestinians, but mainly because Arabs can't build just and hope-filled communities in Israel because they face racism and discrimination. It stinks that Palestinians can't have a state. It stinks even more that THIS state is shrugging at historic gun violence in Arab towns simply because they are Arab towns. It's grossly wrong that Palestinians can't access shipling ports. It's even worse that the nation state law opens up the door to prevent Arabs in Israel fron accessing affordable housing, decent infrastructure, and the keys to economic success.

If I were Gantz I probably would have played this differently. But I certainly don't think that doing the way he did will hurt him. As I said, I think it is far more likely to open up divisions on the right rather than left.

I don’t think this plan is a 2SS because the Palestine envisioned there isn’t really a state. It’s Bibi’s motto “State Minus”.

I think Arab voter turnout who have gone down anyhow, but I think the major issue here is that Gantz supported a plan that might espouse population swap which is racist and offensive to many Arab voters (quite rightly).

Yeah, I didn't realize that Umm al Fahm and other Arab towns in the north would be transfered to the new Palestinian quasi-state under the plan. And now Gantz wants to approve the plan even before election day.

This country...smh.

The Palestinians taking Umm Al Fahm is justified, honestly.

Why don't we ask the residents of Umm Al Fahm before we change their citizenship without consent?

Umm, they call themselves ‘Palestinian’, fly Palestinian flags, lionize Raed Salah, worship the Muslim brotherhood and so on. It’s clear what the answer is.

[EastAnglianLefty]

https://www.memri.org/reports/israeli-arabs-prefer-israel-palestinian-authority

[Hnv1]

I’m going to carefully say that I think Gantz lost the elections yesterday. JL voter turnout is going to dip and the right wing won’t move now. It will either be a unity government of a 4th run.

No, I think exactly the opposite. I think Bibi and Trump lit a bomb underneath the right wing and Gantz was smart enough to quickly get out of the way before it goes off. I also think it will energize rather than depress Arab turnout.

What do you think Gantz did wrong?

Gantz was in a bit of a pickle here. this was Bibi's show and he was working on it for more than 2 years. he foolishly entered the right wing contest with Likud, but maybe that's wisdom in hindsight.

Arab turnout will go down, now they don't see a difference between them and there's no great urgency in replacing Bibi for the ex-general. and now he also lost their recommendations. also Bibi flanked him from the right, he now can't offer NR or Shas anything to pull them away from the bloc, plus Bibi can pressure YB into a government now under some strategic pretense.

Where did Gantz go wrong? well he (his crew headed by Yoram) working brilliantly tactically, doing a quid for quo with Likud. But Bibi is a man of strategy, he knew he can pull this rabbit out at anytime.
in hindsight letting Hendel and Hauser screw the minority government option ended him, and then moving the discussion into the annexation a week ago was even more foolish.

I think he will be forced into a unity government with YB in as well as some grand national unity government for the annexation and coming Intifada.

Embracing the plan is a step to the left and not right for not only Gantz and not Bibi. Netanyahu has since Bar Ilan used as a campaign centerpiece the idea that only he can prevent a Palestinian state. Now he vocally supports one. Gantz has explicitly refused to endorse the 2 state solution. Now he vocally supports is. You are absolutely correct that the Trump plan is an immoral catastrophe for the Palestnians. But the point is that not only does everyone realize that it will never be actualized but that even if it were it would still be an improvement on the apartheid-like madness that currently exists.

But I actually think it's a real mistake to assume that Arab voters are mainly or even especially fixated on the Palestine question.  The reason that Arab voters sat out the April election was, in part, a belief that tbe Arab parties were more concerned with Palestinians than Arab voters in Israel. Arab voters oppose Netanyahu and the fantatical right not only because the apartheidal treatment of Palestinians, but mainly because Arabs can't build just and hope-filled communities in Israel because they face racism and discrimination. It stinks that Palestinians can't have a state. It stinks even more that THIS state is shrugging at historic gun violence in Arab towns simply because they are Arab towns. It's grossly wrong that Palestinians can't access shipling ports. It's even worse that the nation state law opens up the door to prevent Arabs in Israel fron accessing affordable housing, decent infrastructure, and the keys to economic success.

If I were Gantz I probably would have played this differently. But I certainly don't think that doing the way he did will hurt him. As I said, I think it is far more likely to open up divisions on the right rather than left.

I don’t think this plan is a 2SS because the Palestine envisioned there isn’t really a state. It’s Bibi’s motto “State Minus”.

I think Arab voter turnout who have gone down anyhow, but I think the major issue here is that Gantz supported a plan that might espouse population swap which is racist and offensive to many Arab voters (quite rightly).

Yeah, I didn't realize that Umm al Fahm and other Arab towns in the north would be transfered to the new Palestinian quasi-state under the plan. And now Gantz wants to approve the plan even before election day.

This country...smh.

The Palestinians taking Umm Al Fahm is justified, honestly.

Why don't we ask the residents of Umm Al Fahm before we change their citizenship without consent?

Umm, they call themselves ‘Palestinian’, fly Palestinian flags, lionize Raed Salah, worship the Muslim brotherhood and so on. It’s clear what the answer is.

Have you ever been in there? Honestly. Do you know a single person from there?

[Walmart_shopper]

I’m going to carefully say that I think Gantz lost the elections yesterday. JL voter turnout is going to dip and the right wing won’t move now. It will either be a unity government of a 4th run.

No, I think exactly the opposite. I think Bibi and Trump lit a bomb underneath the right wing and Gantz was smart enough to quickly get out of the way before it goes off. I also think it will energize rather than depress Arab turnout.

What do you think Gantz did wrong?

Gantz was in a bit of a pickle here. this was Bibi's show and he was working on it for more than 2 years. he foolishly entered the right wing contest with Likud, but maybe that's wisdom in hindsight.

Arab turnout will go down, now they don't see a difference between them and there's no great urgency in replacing Bibi for the ex-general. and now he also lost their recommendations. also Bibi flanked him from the right, he now can't offer NR or Shas anything to pull them away from the bloc, plus Bibi can pressure YB into a government now under some strategic pretense.

Where did Gantz go wrong? well he (his crew headed by Yoram) working brilliantly tactically, doing a quid for quo with Likud. But Bibi is a man of strategy, he knew he can pull this rabbit out at anytime.
in hindsight letting Hendel and Hauser screw the minority government option ended him, and then moving the discussion into the annexation a week ago was even more foolish.

I think he will be forced into a unity government with YB in as well as some grand national unity government for the annexation and coming Intifada.

Embracing the plan is a step to the left and not right for not only Gantz and not Bibi. Netanyahu has since Bar Ilan used as a campaign centerpiece the idea that only he can prevent a Palestinian state. Now he vocally supports one. Gantz has explicitly refused to endorse the 2 state solution. Now he vocally supports is. You are absolutely correct that the Trump plan is an immoral catastrophe for the Palestnians. But the point is that not only does everyone realize that it will never be actualized but that even if it were it would still be an improvement on the apartheid-like madness that currently exists.

But I actually think it's a real mistake to assume that Arab voters are mainly or even especially fixated on the Palestine question.  The reason that Arab voters sat out the April election was, in part, a belief that tbe Arab parties were more concerned with Palestinians than Arab voters in Israel. Arab voters oppose Netanyahu and the fantatical right not only because the apartheidal treatment of Palestinians, but mainly because Arabs can't build just and hope-filled communities in Israel because they face racism and discrimination. It stinks that Palestinians can't have a state. It stinks even more that THIS state is shrugging at historic gun violence in Arab towns simply because they are Arab towns. It's grossly wrong that Palestinians can't access shipling ports. It's even worse that the nation state law opens up the door to prevent Arabs in Israel fron accessing affordable housing, decent infrastructure, and the keys to economic success.

If I were Gantz I probably would have played this differently. But I certainly don't think that doing the way he did will hurt him. As I said, I think it is far more likely to open up divisions on the right rather than left.

I don’t think this plan is a 2SS because the Palestine envisioned there isn’t really a state. It’s Bibi’s motto “State Minus”.

I think Arab voter turnout who have gone down anyhow, but I think the major issue here is that Gantz supported a plan that might espouse population swap which is racist and offensive to many Arab voters (quite rightly).

Yeah, I didn't realize that Umm al Fahm and other Arab towns in the north would be transfered to the new Palestinian quasi-state under the plan. And now Gantz wants to approve the plan even before election day.

This country...smh.

The Palestinians taking Umm Al Fahm is justified, honestly.

Why don't we ask the residents of Umm Al Fahm before we change their citizenship without consent?

Umm, they call themselves ‘Palestinian’, fly Palestinian flags, lionize Raed Salah, worship the Muslim brotherhood and so on. It’s clear what the answer is.

Lots and lots of North American Jews have Israeli flags all over the place. Basically none of them want to involuntarily relinquish their US or Canadian citizenship to become Israelis.

Arab identity in Israel is incredibly complex. It is unsurprising that Donald Trump cannot appreciate that complexity.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

All of which points to a darkly amusing truth: there is something distinctly... Atlas poster... about the 'plan', isn't there? As if the regulars in the redistricting board had been drafted in to do the work.

[Hnv1]

All of which points to a darkly amusing truth: there is something distinctly... Atlas poster... about the 'plan', isn't there? As if the regulars in the redistricting board had been drafted in to do the work.

It’s similar to the Palestinian Emirates plan some fringe right wingers espoused for years