Pete Buttigieg 2020 campaign megathread

[John Dule]

I'm referring to grassroot's grotesque comments in this thread.

I'll have you know that I don't believe you're a homophobe. This notion that heterosexuality is the natural state and homosexuality is a sexual preference inside that sphere is still very deep in society. But you need to start listening to other people's experiences and realize that you truly don't know better. No, you're not leaving your emotions at the door, you're not better than other posters- your view on social issues is just as influenced by emotions (e.g. some posts regarding trans people). Even here, you're influenced by the instinct to imagine same sex interactions as sexual. Why not let that kid figure it out for himself without trying to suppress him?

Also, if you think I'm humourless you should probably ask some of my friends here.

I didn't read through this thread because I don't care to read Grassr00ts' posts. All he ever accomplishes is making posters like you angry and burning down the entire thread. I hope you understand that I'm coming from a fundamentally different place and I am here to genuinely try to change minds (or change my own).

I also genuinely don't think I bring emotion into these debates, despite the fact that I may feel emotionally about certain aspects of this topic one way or the other. I feel exhausted by Grassr00ts' callous comments about young gay people. It makes me instinctively feel protective of gay people I know in real life, and it makes me happy that some of them did not grow up in that type of environment. At the same time though, I also have an aversion to certain aspects of the LGBT community that I think attempt to pigeonhole gay people into certain roles, personality traits, and interests. The gay community is not a monolith, and every gay person who I'm close with has criticized pride parades and drag queens for presenting the public with an image of gay people that they don't feel represents them. I have grown to deeply dislike these parts of the gay community because I have seen the effect that it has on my friends. So when we talk about children "coming out of the closet," my first thought is that they most likely were stereotyped based on their personalities or preferences from a young age. I'd rather not reinforce those stereotypes of gay people, so I think the entire realm of imposing adult sexual roles on pre-pubescent children should be basically off-limits. And I don't think that's a particularly controversial or edgy take either.

Anyway, that's the emotional side of me talking. But here's how I would approach this normally:

1) Being homosexual and being heterosexual are both "natural states," in that they are both found in nature. However, what I think Grassr00ts is trying to say is that heterosexuality is the "base state" for humans-- the norm. What we consider "normal" can vary, but with gay people being 5% of the population and straight people being 95% of the population, I wouldn't consider this argument (standing independently from everything else he said) particularly offensive. I'm blonde and blue-eyed; I don't consider that "normal" either. Furthermore, I generally think we should distance ourselves from using "normal" as an indicator for "good" and "abnormal" as an indicator for "bad." There is nothing wrong with not being normal. Grassr00ts is guilty of playing into this dichotomy, but you also accepted the argument on his terms.

2) I consider homosexuality first and foremost to be a sexual preference. You have tried to parse out "romantic preference" from that definition, but I am skeptical that the two can be separated (a lot of my disagreements with the left in this area come down just to definitions). Because children don't have sexual instincts, I don't see any way to judge whether or not they're going to grow up to be homosexual without relying on stereotypes, or behavior that may not be indicative of how the child will grow up. These methods of judgement are ill-founded. In any case, I see the attempt to interpret a kid's behavior by comparing it with an adult's behavior as fundamentally flawed.

3) You brought up my opinions on transgenders-- again, emotion doesn't enter into this for me. Gender is a biological trait and it cannot be altered through a change in pronoun identification or even surgery. I say this because there is no solid definition for "gender" as it exists independent from "biological sex," and every time I hear a new definition for it, it contradicts the last one (here we go with my problem with definitions again). I also know that the idea of separating the two was started by a man who abused children and got his medical licence revoked (it even says as much on the Wikipedia page for "gender"). "Gender" as it is used today is synonymous with a perfectly useful term that already existed-- "gender roles," which acknowledges the immutability of gender/biological sex while also affirming that their roles in society may change. If I'm getting anything wrong here, please let me know. I am waiting to be convinced.

Lastly, I want to make something clear: I believe a lot of things that I wish weren't true. I don't believe that people can change their gender, but I wish they could because it would make life easier for transgender people. I'm a determinist; I don't necessarily believe that humans have free will, but I wish they did because it would justify my libertarian instincts. I'm an atheist; I don't believe that there is any divine cosmic power waiting to reward us with eternal life when we die, but I wish there was because I don't want to fade into an eternity of nothingness. I try very hard to confront uncomfortable truths and to accept them as true until I am presented with contradictory evidence. And I don't think that denial is a healthy attitude, which is why my patience for the gender debate (and for religion) often runs somewhat thin. If I make offensive comments on these subjects, it is just an effort to shock people out of their worldview and confront the inconvenient possibility that they may be wrong. The more delusional a belief is, the less willing a person is to discuss it on non-emotional terms. I have long harbored a suspicion that the heightened emotions and deep anger over the genderfluid/genderqueer/third gender issue is a manifestation of this tendency. Therefore, I have developed a certain level of disdain for the entire subject, because I have never heard a single argument about it that does not boil down to emotions and feelings.

Anyway, this was my attempt to explain how I approach these issues. So maybe in the future when I take unpopular positions, I'll be able to refer people back to this when the outrage boils up.

[America Needs R'hllor]

I'm referring to grassroot's grotesque comments in this thread.

I'll have you know that I don't believe you're a homophobe. This notion that heterosexuality is the natural state and homosexuality is a sexual preference inside that sphere is still very deep in society. But you need to start listening to other people's experiences and realize that you truly don't know better. No, you're not leaving your emotions at the door, you're not better than other posters- your view on social issues is just as influenced by emotions (e.g. some posts regarding trans people). Even here, you're influenced by the instinct to imagine same sex interactions as sexual. Why not let that kid figure it out for himself without trying to suppress him?

Also, if you think I'm humourless you should probably ask some of my friends here.

I didn't read through this thread because I don't care to read Grassr00ts' posts. All he ever accomplishes is making posters like you angry and burning down the entire thread. I hope you understand that I'm coming from a fundamentally different place and I am here to genuinely try to change minds (or change my own).

I also genuinely don't think I bring emotion into these debates, despite the fact that I may feel emotionally about certain aspects of this topic one way or the other. I feel exhausted by Grassr00ts' callous comments about young gay people. It makes me instinctively feel protective of gay people I know in real life, and it makes me happy that some of them did not grow up in that type of environment. At the same time though, I also have an aversion to certain aspects of the LGBT community that I think attempt to pigeonhole gay people into certain roles, personality traits, and interests. The gay community is not a monolith, and every gay person who I'm close with has criticized pride parades and drag queens for presenting the public with an image of gay people that they don't feel represents them. I have grown to deeply dislike these parts of the gay community because I have seen the effect that it has on my friends. So when we talk about children "coming out of the closet," my first thought is that they most likely were stereotyped based on their personalities or preferences from a young age. I'd rather not reinforce those stereotypes of gay people, so I think the entire realm of imposing adult sexual roles on pre-pubescent children should be basically off-limits. And I don't think that's a particularly controversial or edgy take either.

Anyway, that's the emotional side of me talking. But here's how I would approach this normally:

1) Being homosexual and being heterosexual are both "natural states," in that they are both found in nature. However, what I think Grassr00ts is trying to say is that heterosexuality is the "base state" for humans-- the norm. What we consider "normal" can vary, but with gay people being 5% of the population and straight people being 95% of the population, I wouldn't consider this argument (standing independently from everything else he said) particularly offensive. I'm blonde and blue-eyed; I don't consider that "normal" either. Furthermore, I generally think we should distance ourselves from using "normal" as an indicator for "good" and "abnormal" as an indicator for "bad." There is nothing wrong with not being normal. Grassr00ts is guilty of playing into this dichotomy, but you also accepted the argument on his terms.

2) I consider homosexuality first and foremost to be a sexual preference. You have tried to parse out "romantic preference" from that definition, but I am skeptical that the two can be separated (a lot of my disagreements with the left in this area come down just to definitions). Because children don't have sexual instincts, I don't see any way to judge whether or not they're going to grow up to be homosexual without relying on stereotypes, or behavior that may not be indicative of how the child will grow up. These methods of judgement are ill-founded. In any case, I see the attempt to interpret a kid's behavior by comparing it with an adult's behavior as fundamentally flawed.

3) You brought up my opinions on transgenders-- again, emotion doesn't enter into this for me. Gender is a biological trait and it cannot be altered through a change in pronoun identification or even surgery. I say this because there is no solid definition for "gender" as it exists independent from "biological sex," and every time I hear a new definition for it, it contradicts the last one (here we go with my problem with definitions again). I also know that the idea of separating the two was started by a man who abused children and got his medical licence revoked (it even says as much on the Wikipedia page for "gender"). "Gender" as it is used today is synonymous with a perfectly useful term that already existed-- "gender roles," which acknowledges the immutability of gender/biological sex while also affirming that their roles in society may change. If I'm getting anything wrong here, please let me know. I am waiting to be convinced.

Lastly, I want to make something clear: I believe a lot of things that I wish weren't true. I don't believe that people can change their gender, but I wish they could because it would make life easier for transgender people. I'm a determinist; I don't necessarily believe that humans have free will, but I wish they did because it would justify my libertarian instincts. I'm an atheist; I don't believe that there is any divine cosmic power waiting to reward us with eternal life when we die, but I wish there was because I don't want to fade into an eternity of nothingness. I try very hard to confront uncomfortable truths and to accept them as true until I am presented with contradictory evidence. And I don't think that denial is a healthy attitude, which is why my patience for the gender debate (and for religion) often runs somewhat thin. If I make offensive comments on these subjects, it is just an effort to shock people out of their worldview and confront the inconvenient possibility that they may be wrong. The more delusional a belief is, the less willing a person is to discuss it on non-emotional terms. I have long harbored a suspicion that the heightened emotions and deep anger over the genderfluid/genderqueer/third gender issue is a manifestation of this tendency. Therefore, I have developed a certain level of disdain for the entire subject, because I have never heard a single argument about it that does not boil down to emotions and feelings.

Anyway, this was my attempt to explain how I approach these issues. So maybe in the future when I take unpopular positions, I'll be able to refer people back to this when the outrage boils up.

I see. I don't agree with many of your prespectives: especially the one on gender, because gender is socially constructed but we live in a society, so changing one's gender is definitely possible and is the only path for trans people. I also don't agree that homosexuality is a purely sexual aspect, it goes deeper than that and I do think that you should listen to the prespectives of the people who actually experienced it on their skin. We're not yet close to knowing everything there is to know about LGBT+ people, and we can't claim to know the truth- instead, we should just respect the people who experience it and let them have it as smooth as possible. The kid in the video, fwiw, doesn't seem to exhibit any particularly stark stereotypes, but even if he did, we should let him be. It's very likely he ends up gay in the future, and even if not, that's ok too.

As for the prespectives of the LGBT+ people you know- I understand that, as a member of the community I know that there are A LOT of opinions and disagreements there. But pride parades are very important for a lot of gay people, and just how sexual they are is exaggarated in the media (at least for the ones I've attended). Drag queens is also a form of expression that's important to many people. I just think that we should all respect each other's freedom to act as they will as long as it doesn't harm anyone, and there's no reason to be particularly angry at that. If someone doesn't want their kids to see a drag queen that's ok, though I do question the validity of the reasons for actively avoiding that.

I apologize if I come off as aggressive on these issues- I won't stop being aggressive towards people who are aggressive with their hatred, but your ignoring of the hatefulness of people like grassr00t's comments made me think you don't mind it, and it seems like I misinterpreted it.

[Roronoa D. Law]

Nah I'm pretty sure I knew I was gay when I was 9 years old. But do wish I had come out a long time ago looking back at it.

[Tintrlvr]

Oh dear, Grassr00ts. Talk to some actual gay people. Every single gay person could have said they were gay at age 9 if they both (i) knew what being gay was and (ii) didn't think people would reject them for it. I mean, I'm sure you had crushes on girls when you were a little kid, right?

[Arizona Iced Tea]

Buttigieg is going to triple his support with African Americans after this debate.
Sadly 3 times 0 is still 0.

[It’s so Joever]

Buttigieg is going to triple his support with African Americans after this debate.
Sadly 3 times 0 is still 0.

Speaking of which, each day Michael Bennet doubles his base. The Bennetslide is inevitable!

[7,052,770]

I knew that I was straight by the 3rd grade. I didn't act on it until years later, but I knew that certain girls stirred up some feelings in me. I don't think that's in any way unusual.

[Xing]

I definitely had crushes on girls when I was 9. Sure, they might not have been highly sexual, but people need to understand that each individual's experience is different, and not pretend to understand how someone else feels attraction better than they themselves do. Naturally, attraction can change and evolve, but acting as though a 9 year-old recognizing as gay must be the work of LGBTQ indoctrination is next-level tin foil hat s**t.

[afleitch]

I’m not homophobic, just not basing my feelings of of feelings and empathy, I’m simply looking at the way things are. I have the upmost respect for gay people and I respect their rights. But forcing this stuff upon children is unhealthy for them and could hurt them in many ways.

Nah, you're the only one who's basing his opinions on feelings- you're sending this kid to cry instead of accepting his decision because your fragile feelings can't handle him diverging from your view of the world. There is no reason to prevent this child from coming out (and maybe changing his mind later on, that's ok too!) other than your feelings.

It's not about my "fragile feelings", or my view of the world. It's about not letting our children make up their minds on life affecting decisions when their minds are not fully developed. Whether they change their minds later is irrelevant, how they are viewed by their peers is going to be affected.

Apparently Buttigieg staged a 9-year old coming out as gay at his speech today?

Lmao link?
I literally searched and can’t find a single thing.

S T A G E D

This is disgusting and I might just withdraw my endorsement.

There’s nothing in that article that says it was staged.

That 9-year old boy wanted to talk with Pete on his own.

It's not that it was staged or not. Children shouldn't be coming out, especially not like this. Homosexuality in children should not be glorified and publicized. I have personal objections to this.

Well, at what age should people come out?

Not at the age of freaking 9! That's despicable.

At least 16 is when children's minds have matured enough yet to make that kind of decision.

Do you also think children need to be 16 to decide whether they like the opposite sex?

No because heterosexuality is the natural sexual mindset that humans have and always have had.

you realize that elementary school crushes are really common right? And sometimes a kid might end up crushing on someone of the same gender.

That doesn't mean they are gay in any way. Stop rushing to diagnose children with homosexuality. There's no point in that. Children don't need to be exposed to anything that isn't healthy for them, and them thinking that they are gay at an age where their romantic and sexual mind hasn't matured yet is extremely dangerous.

I didn't know my sexuality at age 9, but I'm not going to be triggered enough to spend a full page of a thread arguing why it's so reprehensible to have that figured out and sharing it earlier than most. What the hell is your problem @Grassr00ts?

My problem, is my problem with the LGBTQ community preying on children in this manner. It's deviated from simply breeding hate out of them, to indoctrinating them and unnaturally screwing with their perception of feelings and love.

I knew I was gay when I was very young. Do you think we are lying?

[ElectionsGuy]

My problem, is my problem with the LGBTQ community preying on children in this manner. It's deviated from simply breeding hate out of them, to indoctrinating them and unnaturally screwing with their perception of feelings and love.

So you think this kid didn't voluntarily come out and was indoctrinated into believing so? I don't know what else to say.

Oh dear, Grassr00ts. Talk to some actual gay people. Every single gay person could have said they were gay at age 9 if they both (i) knew what being gay was and (ii) didn't think people would reject them for it. I mean, I'm sure you had crushes on girls when you were a little kid, right?

I don't know if that's necessarily true, some kids just don't have any romantic feelings until their older, but I do agree with the 2nd portion of that. If I didn't grow up in an environment where you're pressured into liking the opposite sex and all the other kids said "that's so gay" all the time, I probably would've come to terms and accepted my bisexuality at like 13 instead of 16.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

If Cory Booker stayed in, he could of capitalized on the LGBT vote that Buttigieg had gotten, but he dropped out, due to assumption Biden was gonna get it. That's why Warren says you should wait to see what the voters say, not what the polls say

[Adam Griffin]

This is a lot funnier if you read it as them having to cancel their events because it was like 55 degrees in Fort Myers and all the olds refused to bundle up and come out

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1232684270457630720

[Dr. MB]

Apparently Buttigieg staged a 9-year old coming out as gay at his speech today?

Lmao link?
I literally searched and can’t find a single thing.

S T A G E D

This is disgusting and I might just withdraw my endorsement.

There’s nothing in that article that says it was staged.

That 9-year old boy wanted to talk with Pete on his own.

It's not that it was staged or not. Children shouldn't be coming out, especially not like this. Homosexuality in children should not be glorified and publicized. I have personal objections to this.

Well, at what age should people come out?

Not at the age of freaking 9! That's despicable.

At least 16 is when children's minds have matured enough yet to make that kind of decision.

Do you also think children need to be 16 to decide whether they like the opposite sex?

No because heterosexuality is the natural sexual mindset that humans have and always have had.

you realize that elementary school crushes are really common right? And sometimes a kid might end up crushing on someone of the same gender.

That doesn't mean they are gay in any way. Stop rushing to diagnose children with homosexuality. There's no point in that. Children don't need to be exposed to anything that isn't healthy for them, and them thinking that they are gay at an age where their romantic and sexual mind hasn't matured yet is extremely dangerous.

I'm not saying to slap a label on and that's actually very dangerous. But if a kid says "I'm gay" and then you immediately shut them down what does that do?

[YE]

Locking this as a cool down of sorts and to give me the chance to evaluate everything in this thread.

[Shadows]

Pete Buttigieg embarrassed himself & fleed a Fight for 15 rally. He turned their to support them & they changed Pete can't be our President & where is 15 in South Bend to his face time & again.

It was hilarious & Pete ended up literally running away. The video is all over the Internet.

[Calthrina950]

I'm referring to grassroot's grotesque comments in this thread.

I'll have you know that I don't believe you're a homophobe. This notion that heterosexuality is the natural state and homosexuality is a sexual preference inside that sphere is still very deep in society. But you need to start listening to other people's experiences and realize that you truly don't know better. No, you're not leaving your emotions at the door, you're not better than other posters- your view on social issues is just as influenced by emotions (e.g. some posts regarding trans people). Even here, you're influenced by the instinct to imagine same sex interactions as sexual. Why not let that kid figure it out for himself without trying to suppress him?

Also, if you think I'm humourless you should probably ask some of my friends here.

I didn't read through this thread because I don't care to read Grassr00ts' posts. All he ever accomplishes is making posters like you angry and burning down the entire thread. I hope you understand that I'm coming from a fundamentally different place and I am here to genuinely try to change minds (or change my own).

I also genuinely don't think I bring emotion into these debates, despite the fact that I may feel emotionally about certain aspects of this topic one way or the other. I feel exhausted by Grassr00ts' callous comments about young gay people. It makes me instinctively feel protective of gay people I know in real life, and it makes me happy that some of them did not grow up in that type of environment. At the same time though, I also have an aversion to certain aspects of the LGBT community that I think attempt to pigeonhole gay people into certain roles, personality traits, and interests. The gay community is not a monolith, and every gay person who I'm close with has criticized pride parades and drag queens for presenting the public with an image of gay people that they don't feel represents them. I have grown to deeply dislike these parts of the gay community because I have seen the effect that it has on my friends. So when we talk about children "coming out of the closet," my first thought is that they most likely were stereotyped based on their personalities or preferences from a young age. I'd rather not reinforce those stereotypes of gay people, so I think the entire realm of imposing adult sexual roles on pre-pubescent children should be basically off-limits. And I don't think that's a particularly controversial or edgy take either.

Anyway, that's the emotional side of me talking. But here's how I would approach this normally:

1) Being homosexual and being heterosexual are both "natural states," in that they are both found in nature. However, what I think Grassr00ts is trying to say is that heterosexuality is the "base state" for humans-- the norm. What we consider "normal" can vary, but with gay people being 5% of the population and straight people being 95% of the population, I wouldn't consider this argument (standing independently from everything else he said) particularly offensive. I'm blonde and blue-eyed; I don't consider that "normal" either. Furthermore, I generally think we should distance ourselves from using "normal" as an indicator for "good" and "abnormal" as an indicator for "bad." There is nothing wrong with not being normal. Grassr00ts is guilty of playing into this dichotomy, but you also accepted the argument on his terms.

2) I consider homosexuality first and foremost to be a sexual preference. You have tried to parse out "romantic preference" from that definition, but I am skeptical that the two can be separated (a lot of my disagreements with the left in this area come down just to definitions). Because children don't have sexual instincts, I don't see any way to judge whether or not they're going to grow up to be homosexual without relying on stereotypes, or behavior that may not be indicative of how the child will grow up. These methods of judgement are ill-founded. In any case, I see the attempt to interpret a kid's behavior by comparing it with an adult's behavior as fundamentally flawed.

3) You brought up my opinions on transgenders-- again, emotion doesn't enter into this for me. Gender is a biological trait and it cannot be altered through a change in pronoun identification or even surgery. I say this because there is no solid definition for "gender" as it exists independent from "biological sex," and every time I hear a new definition for it, it contradicts the last one (here we go with my problem with definitions again). I also know that the idea of separating the two was started by a man who abused children and got his medical licence revoked (it even says as much on the Wikipedia page for "gender"). "Gender" as it is used today is synonymous with a perfectly useful term that already existed-- "gender roles," which acknowledges the immutability of gender/biological sex while also affirming that their roles in society may change. If I'm getting anything wrong here, please let me know. I am waiting to be convinced.

Lastly, I want to make something clear: I believe a lot of things that I wish weren't true. I don't believe that people can change their gender, but I wish they could because it would make life easier for transgender people. I'm a determinist; I don't necessarily believe that humans have free will, but I wish they did because it would justify my libertarian instincts. I'm an atheist; I don't believe that there is any divine cosmic power waiting to reward us with eternal life when we die, but I wish there was because I don't want to fade into an eternity of nothingness. I try very hard to confront uncomfortable truths and to accept them as true until I am presented with contradictory evidence. And I don't think that denial is a healthy attitude, which is why my patience for the gender debate (and for religion) often runs somewhat thin. If I make offensive comments on these subjects, it is just an effort to shock people out of their worldview and confront the inconvenient possibility that they may be wrong. The more delusional a belief is, the less willing a person is to discuss it on non-emotional terms. I have long harbored a suspicion that the heightened emotions and deep anger over the genderfluid/genderqueer/third gender issue is a manifestation of this tendency. Therefore, I have developed a certain level of disdain for the entire subject, because I have never heard a single argument about it that does not boil down to emotions and feelings.

Anyway, this was my attempt to explain how I approach these issues. So maybe in the future when I take unpopular positions, I'll be able to refer people back to this when the outrage boils up.

I see. I don't agree with many of your prespectives: especially the one on gender, because gender is socially constructed but we live in a society, so changing one's gender is definitely possible and is the only path for trans people. I also don't agree that homosexuality is a purely sexual aspect, it goes deeper than that and I do think that you should listen to the prespectives of the people who actually experienced it on their skin. We're not yet close to knowing everything there is to know about LGBT+ people, and we can't claim to know the truth- instead, we should just respect the people who experience it and let them have it as smooth as possible. The kid in the video, fwiw, doesn't seem to exhibit any particularly stark stereotypes, but even if he did, we should let him be. It's very likely he ends up gay in the future, and even if not, that's ok too.

As for the prespectives of the LGBT+ people you know- I understand that, as a member of the community I know that there are A LOT of opinions and disagreements there. But pride parades are very important for a lot of gay people, and just how sexual they are is exaggarated in the media (at least for the ones I've attended). Drag queens is also a form of expression that's important to many people. I just think that we should all respect each other's freedom to act as they will as long as it doesn't harm anyone, and there's no reason to be particularly angry at that. If someone doesn't want their kids to see a drag queen that's ok, though I do question the validity of the reasons for actively avoiding that.

I apologize if I come off as aggressive on these issues- I won't stop being aggressive towards people who are aggressive with their hatred, but your ignoring of the hatefulness of people like grassr00t's comments made me think you don't mind it, and it seems like I misinterpreted it.

The bolded is exactly what John Stuart Mill would say! I'm currently taking a Philosophy class, and I've been skimming through the posts on this thread. And the points which John Dule is trying to make about being skeptical of other views, and willing to change when presented with evidence, fits in with Mill's emphasis about the need for a "plurality" of opinions. Deep conversations on Atlas can definitely bring about concepts of a philosophical and sociological nature.

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

Apparently Buttigieg staged a 9-year old coming out as gay at his speech today?

Lmao link?
I literally searched and can’t find a single thing.

S T A G E D

This is disgusting and I might just withdraw my endorsement.

There’s nothing in that article that says it was staged.

That 9-year old boy wanted to talk with Pete on his own.

It's not that it was staged or not. Children shouldn't be coming out, especially not like this. Homosexuality in children should not be glorified and publicized. I have personal objections to this.

You do realize that some people realize extremely early? Are you gay? I am, I knew from about the age of 10 or 11. Didn’t come out till I was 21. Do you realize the stress and straight up depression that can be avoided from coming out so early? You sound like an imbecile citing your personal objections when you don’t know at all how this kid feels

Honestly I couldn't care less about how the kid feels. That kid can go cry until he or she is of age to make that decision. Phases are real.

they don't "go and cry".

Many end up killing themselves.

Jesus christ.

[Dr. MB]

Apparently Buttigieg staged a 9-year old coming out as gay at his speech today?

Lmao link?
I literally searched and can’t find a single thing.

S T A G E D

This is disgusting and I might just withdraw my endorsement.

There’s nothing in that article that says it was staged.

That 9-year old boy wanted to talk with Pete on his own.

It's not that it was staged or not. Children shouldn't be coming out, especially not like this. Homosexuality in children should not be glorified and publicized. I have personal objections to this.

Well, at what age should people come out?

Not at the age of freaking 9! That's despicable.

At least 16 is when children's minds have matured enough yet to make that kind of decision.

Do you also think children need to be 16 to decide whether they like the opposite sex?

No because heterosexuality is the natural sexual mindset that humans have and always have had.

you realize that elementary school crushes are really common right? And sometimes a kid might end up crushing on someone of the same gender.

That doesn't mean they are gay in any way. Stop rushing to diagnose children with homosexuality. There's no point in that. Children don't need to be exposed to anything that isn't healthy for them, and them thinking that they are gay at an age where their romantic and sexual mind hasn't matured yet is extremely dangerous.

I'm not saying to slap a label on and that's actually very dangerous. But if a kid says "I'm gay" and then you immediately shut them down what does that do?

Allows them time to think. Again, they aren't mature to make that decision for themselves.

I am SHOCKED that a right-winger would have issue with homosexuality. There goes 30% of Pete's voters! #RIPete #PeteHasCoronavirus #LetMeBeClearWithMyObamaImpression

I honestly don't know how many times I have to say I don't have an issue with homosexuality before it gets through your thick skull.

No it doesn’t “allow them time to think”, it just represses it if they actually do end up as gay.

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

Apparently Buttigieg staged a 9-year old coming out as gay at his speech today?

Lmao link?
I literally searched and can’t find a single thing.

S T A G E D

This is disgusting and I might just withdraw my endorsement.

There’s nothing in that article that says it was staged.

That 9-year old boy wanted to talk with Pete on his own.

It's not that it was staged or not. Children shouldn't be coming out, especially not like this. Homosexuality in children should not be glorified and publicized. I have personal objections to this.

You do realize that some people realize extremely early? Are you gay? I am, I knew from about the age of 10 or 11. Didn’t come out till I was 21. Do you realize the stress and straight up depression that can be avoided from coming out so early? You sound like an imbecile citing your personal objections when you don’t know at all how this kid feels

Honestly I couldn't care less about how the kid feels. That kid can go cry until he or she is of age to make that decision. Phases are real.

they don't "go and cry".

Many end up killing themselves.

Jesus christ.

No 9 year old kid is committing suicide. Tf?

I should’ve clarified this: many kill themselves before they turn 16. Usually in the 13-15 range. It’s a problem and the fact that you’re dismissing it in this way is sickening.

[afleitch]

I don't believe that gay kids are indoctrinated, I expected that you people would jump to assume that when I made the post, because you can't find an actual argument.

I'm saying that influence is a thing and that you people are trying to make it acceptable for kids to come out at a young age. It is not acceptable.

Goldmine. Absolute goldmine.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

I don't believe that gay kids are indoctrinated, I expected that you people would jump to assume that when I made the post, because you can't find an actual argument.

I'm saying that influence is a thing and that you people are trying to make it acceptable for kids to come out at a young age. It is not acceptable.

Goldmine. Absolute goldmine.

[Redacted]

Just stop. You’re embarrassing yourself. You’ve been given example after example by numerous posters here who actually lived through struggling with their sexuality as adolescents. You don’t stand on science, biology or experience, just your very personal, and bigoted, opinion that gay youth are icky. I’d stop before you dig yourself any further.

[VPH]

I wonder to what extent Mayor Pete will overperform in smaller and midsize cities.
Looks like they're the backbone of his Super Tuesday strategy.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/27/buttigieg-super-tuesday-delegate-117816

[redjohn]

Don't feed the homophobes, people.

[Illini Moderate]

Apparently Buttigieg staged a 9-year old coming out as gay at his speech today?

Lmao link?
I literally searched and can’t find a single thing.

S T A G E D

This is disgusting and I might just withdraw my endorsement.

There’s nothing in that article that says it was staged.

That 9-year old boy wanted to talk with Pete on his own.

It's not that it was staged or not. Children shouldn't be coming out, especially not like this. Homosexuality in children should not be glorified and publicized. I have personal objections to this.

You do realize that some people realize extremely early? Are you gay? I am, I knew from about the age of 10 or 11. Didn’t come out till I was 21. Do you realize the stress and straight up depression that can be avoided from coming out so early? You sound like an imbecile citing your personal objections when you don’t know at all how this kid feels

Honestly I couldn't care less about how the kid feels. That kid can go cry until he or she is of age to make that decision. Phases are real.

they don't "go and cry".

Many end up killing themselves.

Jesus christ.

No 9 year old kid is committing suicide. Tf?

My god, you're so out-of-touch. I did have suicidal thoughts when I was 9, 10, 11 years old, and acted on them occasionally.

Well that's a serious failure by your parents. Anyways, I don't care about your personal experiences, and I stand my ground on this issue. Children should not be coming out until they have matured enough to make that kind of decision.

You have NO IDEA when a kid “knows” they are gay. And you have absolutely no reason to have an opinion on this. You’re just coming off as a bigoted jerk. I was severely depressed for years actively trying to conceal my sexuality from my friends and family. If I had grown up in a different area and a different time when it was acceptable, I would have came out a lot earlier and avoided years of depression. At this point, you just need to f**king drop it because you are completely uninformed on this issue and have no way of knowing what it’s actually like. Who the hell are you to say this kid doesn’t know?

And so what if he IS wrong? Many people claim they are straight for years and then come out as gay. What’s so wrong with thinking you are gay and just being wrong? It’s not likely to happen by the way. Children know what sex they find attractive. Sure they might not have sexual feelings, but they might show signs of attraction to same sex people. You usually  know when you are little whether you want a wife or a husband. It’s not a sexual thing at all. If the boy knows, he knows, and you insisting otherwise and actually going so far as to argue about it is just idiotic. You know NOTHING about this.

Furthermore, stop using terms like “diagnose” and “make that decision” when referring to being gay. I can assure you it is not an illness nor is it a choice that requires any decision-making. 

[Arizona Iced Tea]

Just let kids be kids. If he thinks he is gay, and his parents are okay with it, let him be with Pete. It isn't harming anyone.