COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron

[Middle-aged Europe]

Um, 25% of Americans - including 43% of Republicans - say that the United States is managing the COVID-19 pandemic "much better" or "somewhat better" than other countries.

Low information voters?

Granted, "better than other countries" is a bit unspecific. One could argue that the United States' response is still better than Brazil's. But to say that it is anywhere near being great seems a bit disconnected from the real world.


https://www.npr.org/2020/08/04/898522180/despite-mask-wars-americans-support-aggressive-measures-to-stop-covid-19-poll-fi

[Middle-aged Europe]

Florida man who believed COVID to be a hoax loses wife to COVID

A Florida taxi driver, who believed false claims that coronavirus was a hoax, has lost his wife to Covid-19.

Brian Lee Hitchens and his wife, Erin, had read claims online that the virus was fabricated, linked to 5G or similar to the flu.

The couple didn't follow health guidance or seek help when they fell ill in early May. Brian recovered but his 46-year-old wife became critically ill and died this month from heart problems linked to the virus.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53892856

[Middle-aged Europe]

If Boris, Bolsonaro and Trump already had COVID this kind of suspciously leaves Putin out. Putin probably had it too at this point and they just covered it up IMO.

[Middle-aged Europe]

This has to be the most self-centred population in recent history. It's a good thing most of you weren't alive during WWII or we would almost certainly have lost. It's no wonder this country is fracturing as it is. There is no common cause or common sacrifice anymore. It's all about "me", "me", and "me'. Being forced to wear a mask in a grocery store? That's apparently the new oppression. That is despite the fact that one lives in the United States, where one is not oppressed.

Yeah, essentially this.

[Middle-aged Europe]

The vaccine is very unlikely to cause any issues beyond the day or 2. Colds are traditionally a 9 day affair with 3 days of hell in the middle. Anyway the booster caused 1 night of hell for me (much worse than shots 1 and 2) so I'm not sold yet on getting a 4th booster anyway.

Everybody's reacting differently. My worst dose of COVID vaccine in terms of side effects had been the second one in June. The booster was actually the most palatable one for me so far. Maybe it depends on whether you combine different vaccines? I had Moderna three times in a row now.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Crude analysis of Omicron severity based on SA data. Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/south-africa/

Pre-Omicron minimum of 7-day case average: 259
Omicron peak of 7-day case average: 23,437

Pre-Omicron minimum of 7-day death average: 11
Omicron peak of 7-day death average: 67 (if deaths have in fact peaked)

Ratio of cases pre-Omicron/Omicron: 90.5
Ratio of deaths pre-Omicron/Omicron: 6.1

90.5 / 6.1 = 14.8

Thus it appears that Omicron is approximately 14.8 times less deadly than Delta.

What does "pre-Omicron" mean or entail? I hope not the time when nobody was vaccinated? Of course COVID was deadlier than, but for different reasons. Also, there was also a time before Delta, was this taken into account here or not? I don't question the less frequent occurrence of severe cases with Omicron since this is by now medical consensus, but it's unclear to me whether your numbers actually mean anything either.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Crude analysis of Omicron severity based on SA data. Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/south-africa/

Pre-Omicron minimum of 7-day case average: 259
Omicron peak of 7-day case average: 23,437

Pre-Omicron minimum of 7-day death average: 11
Omicron peak of 7-day death average: 67 (if deaths have in fact peaked)

Ratio of cases pre-Omicron/Omicron: 90.5
Ratio of deaths pre-Omicron/Omicron: 6.1

90.5 / 6.1 = 14.8

Thus it appears that Omicron is approximately 14.8 times less deadly than Delta.

What does "pre-Omicron" mean or entail? I hope not the time when nobody was vaccinated? Of course COVID was deadlier than, but for different reasons. Also, there was also a time before Delta, was this taken into account here or not? I don't question the less frequent occurrence of severe cases with Omicron since this is by now medical consensus, but it's unclear to me whether your numbers actually mean anything either.

South Africa has about 25% or so vaccination rate, not likely enough to make much of a difference in these numbers.

Of course it makes a difference, just not the the extent a higher vaxx rate would.

[Middle-aged Europe]

He wanted to shut down the entire economy again over Omicron, and told people not to travel on Christmas and Thanksgiving.  

Well that's not true. He said it was safe to gather with family if everyone was vaccinated. And he supported the decrease in the quarantine time so that society could keep functioning.

Oh did he changed his mind again?  I understand.  He can only push people too far before they start showing up to his home with Fauci effigies.  Three days before Christmas, he said the vaccinated should not go to large parties with 30, 40, or 50 people.  Essentially, poor people should have Thanksgiving Dinner with each other.  He also said the unvaccinated should come to Thanksgiving Dinner.  Get your five year old vaccinated or they can't go see their unvaccinated cousins. I'm so glad my sister no longer values this A-Hole's opinion.  
https://www.westernjournal.com/fauci-calls-holiday-party-shutdown-three-days-christmas-stay-away/

The only thing you got correct here is that he recommended (not required) folks not go to gatherings of 30+ people. You call that "shutting down the economy?"

Everything else you've claimed is factually incorrect. He actually endorsed holiday travel for vaxxed/boosted people.

Well, at the very least Hollywood has got an enemy to hate. I guess that must count for something.

[Middle-aged Europe]

C) You should only do a PCR test if you have tested positive on the antigen test (they are super expensive anyways so why would you test?)

Because I have a life and want to spend the next two weeks living it instead of hiding inside waiting to find out whether or not I have COVID.  But I also don't want to spread COVID to dozens of other people, especially people I care about, if I do have it.

Dude that ain't cool.  There's literally people that need to get those tests to come back negative in order to get back to work.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here, are you implying I shouldn't get tested even after spending significant time with someone who was infected with COVID, because someone else might need the test more than me?

Correct. It's selfish to hog tests if you're low risk.

Tell that to my loved ones who don't want to get COVID from me.

Your loved ones are going to get omicron from someone no matter what.

You can't dodge it.

For Christ's sake, let the man have his PCR test.

[Middle-aged Europe]

snipped for space

While I think the restrictions are an overreach at this point, the vaccine was never going to move the country beyond the pandemic when you still have 30-50 million people who refuse to get vaccinated, which is driving the hospitalization rates.

My 67 year old mother was exposed to an omicron-positive person over the weekend.

My mom was hesitant to get her 2nd shot, but finally got it on December 22nd.

Since it was only 3 weeks ago she got her second shot, shouldn’t she in theory be more likely to have an effective vaccine response if she ended up getting the virus compared to someone who got their 2nd shot months ago?

I’m a bit concerned, but I think the studies show that vaccines work better against amicron if infection happens closer to the time you got your shot.

She is not overweight and is in good health, by the way.

Even if they were a month apart, it's still more protection than being unvaccinated, and if I recall, the main reason for the booster doses in the first place is because immunity wanes, and most people are 6-12 months past their second dose by now, if that's of any help.

In a way, you're correct, although as I've noted, we've seen viral surges and restrictions in countries that have much higher vaccination rates than the United States. I recall reading about Singapore, which has one of the highest vaccination rates on the planet, and yet hasn't returned to a mode of normalcy. That's why I'm not convinced we're going to see the lifting of virtually all restrictions even if the vaccination rate increases further, and even if rates are high.

Yeah we've had strip limits of 5 people social gatherings basicaly this entire pandemic and we're at around 95% vaccinated with 50% boostered.

And in Germany and France, they've had strict mask and vaccine mandates, along with vaccine passports, in force or coming into force. There is no logic for countries that have vaccination rates of 80-90% or more maintaining such restrictions.

Germany's vaccination rate is 73% though.

[Middle-aged Europe]

snipped for space

While I think the restrictions are an overreach at this point, the vaccine was never going to move the country beyond the pandemic when you still have 30-50 million people who refuse to get vaccinated, which is driving the hospitalization rates.

My 67 year old mother was exposed to an omicron-positive person over the weekend.

My mom was hesitant to get her 2nd shot, but finally got it on December 22nd.

Since it was only 3 weeks ago she got her second shot, shouldn’t she in theory be more likely to have an effective vaccine response if she ended up getting the virus compared to someone who got their 2nd shot months ago?

I’m a bit concerned, but I think the studies show that vaccines work better against amicron if infection happens closer to the time you got your shot.

She is not overweight and is in good health, by the way.

Even if they were a month apart, it's still more protection than being unvaccinated, and if I recall, the main reason for the booster doses in the first place is because immunity wanes, and most people are 6-12 months past their second dose by now, if that's of any help.

In a way, you're correct, although as I've noted, we've seen viral surges and restrictions in countries that have much higher vaccination rates than the United States. I recall reading about Singapore, which has one of the highest vaccination rates on the planet, and yet hasn't returned to a mode of normalcy. That's why I'm not convinced we're going to see the lifting of virtually all restrictions even if the vaccination rate increases further, and even if rates are high.

Yeah we've had strip limits of 5 people social gatherings basicaly this entire pandemic and we're at around 95% vaccinated with 50% boostered.

And in Germany and France, they've had strict mask and vaccine mandates, along with vaccine passports, in force or coming into force. There is no logic for countries that have vaccination rates of 80-90% or more maintaining such restrictions.

Germany's vaccination rate is 73% though.

I was referring to Singapore.

Ah, okay... well, it does seem a bit excessive that Singapore tries to curtail social gatherings to five people max. when Germany does the same with ten people at significantly lower vaccination rates. Then again, that's Singapore for you... they're probably also much stricter at enforcement I gather.

[Middle-aged Europe]

snipped for space

While I think the restrictions are an overreach at this point, the vaccine was never going to move the country beyond the pandemic when you still have 30-50 million people who refuse to get vaccinated, which is driving the hospitalization rates.

My 67 year old mother was exposed to an omicron-positive person over the weekend.

My mom was hesitant to get her 2nd shot, but finally got it on December 22nd.

Since it was only 3 weeks ago she got her second shot, shouldn’t she in theory be more likely to have an effective vaccine response if she ended up getting the virus compared to someone who got their 2nd shot months ago?

I’m a bit concerned, but I think the studies show that vaccines work better against amicron if infection happens closer to the time you got your shot.

She is not overweight and is in good health, by the way.

Even if they were a month apart, it's still more protection than being unvaccinated, and if I recall, the main reason for the booster doses in the first place is because immunity wanes, and most people are 6-12 months past their second dose by now, if that's of any help.

In a way, you're correct, although as I've noted, we've seen viral surges and restrictions in countries that have much higher vaccination rates than the United States. I recall reading about Singapore, which has one of the highest vaccination rates on the planet, and yet hasn't returned to a mode of normalcy. That's why I'm not convinced we're going to see the lifting of virtually all restrictions even if the vaccination rate increases further, and even if rates are high.

Yeah we've had strip limits of 5 people social gatherings basicaly this entire pandemic and we're at around 95% vaccinated with 50% boostered.

And in Germany and France, they've had strict mask and vaccine mandates, along with vaccine passports, in force or coming into force. There is no logic for countries that have vaccination rates of 80-90% or more maintaining such restrictions.

Germany's vaccination rate is 73% though.

I was referring to Singapore.

Ah, okay... well, it does seem a bit excessive that Singapore tries to curtail social gatherings to five people max. when Germany does the same with ten people at significantly lower vaccination rates. Then again, that's Singapore for you... they're probably also much stricter at enforcement I gather.

Singapore exemplifies why I'm highly skeptical all restrictions will go away after the pandemic is over. It's becoming even clearer to me that some of these measures will be permanent.

IMO, politicians don't do COVID restrictions for "no reason". Okay, some East Asian countries may differ for cultural reasons, I dunno. Things are already way less strict than they had been exactly one year ago and a year from now there will be even less left of it, if anything at all. I mean, I had the very distinct impression during the last couple of weeks that everything my government is doing right now is to smooth the transition from pandemic to endemic and that's basically it. Slowing down the infection rate of Omicron a bit, so not everybody is getting it at the same time, but stretched out over the next three, four months, especially because you can't have all the police, firefighters, hospital personnel, and bus drivers being struck down by COVID all at the same time (in Berlin, public transportation is planning to scale back the bus routes starting tomorrow, simply because they have begun to run out of bus drivers who aren't sick at the moment).

[Middle-aged Europe]

snipped for space

While I think the restrictions are an overreach at this point, the vaccine was never going to move the country beyond the pandemic when you still have 30-50 million people who refuse to get vaccinated, which is driving the hospitalization rates.

My 67 year old mother was exposed to an omicron-positive person over the weekend.

My mom was hesitant to get her 2nd shot, but finally got it on December 22nd.

Since it was only 3 weeks ago she got her second shot, shouldn’t she in theory be more likely to have an effective vaccine response if she ended up getting the virus compared to someone who got their 2nd shot months ago?

I’m a bit concerned, but I think the studies show that vaccines work better against amicron if infection happens closer to the time you got your shot.

She is not overweight and is in good health, by the way.

Even if they were a month apart, it's still more protection than being unvaccinated, and if I recall, the main reason for the booster doses in the first place is because immunity wanes, and most people are 6-12 months past their second dose by now, if that's of any help.

In a way, you're correct, although as I've noted, we've seen viral surges and restrictions in countries that have much higher vaccination rates than the United States. I recall reading about Singapore, which has one of the highest vaccination rates on the planet, and yet hasn't returned to a mode of normalcy. That's why I'm not convinced we're going to see the lifting of virtually all restrictions even if the vaccination rate increases further, and even if rates are high.

Yeah we've had strip limits of 5 people social gatherings basicaly this entire pandemic and we're at around 95% vaccinated with 50% boostered.

And in Germany and France, they've had strict mask and vaccine mandates, along with vaccine passports, in force or coming into force. There is no logic for countries that have vaccination rates of 80-90% or more maintaining such restrictions.

Germany's vaccination rate is 73% though.

I was referring to Singapore.

Ah, okay... well, it does seem a bit excessive that Singapore tries to curtail social gatherings to five people max. when Germany does the same with ten people at significantly lower vaccination rates. Then again, that's Singapore for you... they're probably also much stricter at enforcement I gather.

Singapore exemplifies why I'm highly skeptical all restrictions will go away after the pandemic is over. It's becoming even clearer to me that some of these measures will be permanent.

IMO, politicians don't do COVID restrictions for "no reason". Okay, some East Asian countries may differ for cultural reasons, I dunno. Things are already way less strict than they had been exactly one year ago and a year from now there will be even less left of it, if anything at all. I mean, I had the very distinct impression during the last couple of weeks that everything my government is doing right now is to smooth the transition from pandemic to endemic and that's basically it. Slowing down the infection rate of Omicron a bit, so not everybody is getting it at the same time, but stretched out over the next three, four months, especially because you can't have all the police, firefighters, hospital personnel, and bus drivers being struck down by COVID all at the same time (in Berlin, public transportation is planning to scale back the bus routes starting tomorrow, simply because they have begun to run out of bus drivers who aren't sick at the moment).

There's going to be some permanent changes, I'm sure of it. Life is never going to fully return to the conditions of 2019.

Well, life is change. It's unrealistic to expect that everything stays always the same, especially with an almost earth-shattering event like a global pandemic. After WWII there was also no going back to a pre-WWII world. That's how history works. But I expect that I can generally live my life as I did before. Most changes will not come from the government anyway, but from the people, as I already noticed for the past two years when friendships have changed/ended/begun because everybody has developed differing levels of concern and caution, and you start to look for COVID compatibility.

[Middle-aged Europe]

snipped for space

While I think the restrictions are an overreach at this point, the vaccine was never going to move the country beyond the pandemic when you still have 30-50 million people who refuse to get vaccinated, which is driving the hospitalization rates.

My 67 year old mother was exposed to an omicron-positive person over the weekend.

My mom was hesitant to get her 2nd shot, but finally got it on December 22nd.

Since it was only 3 weeks ago she got her second shot, shouldn’t she in theory be more likely to have an effective vaccine response if she ended up getting the virus compared to someone who got their 2nd shot months ago?

I’m a bit concerned, but I think the studies show that vaccines work better against amicron if infection happens closer to the time you got your shot.

She is not overweight and is in good health, by the way.

Even if they were a month apart, it's still more protection than being unvaccinated, and if I recall, the main reason for the booster doses in the first place is because immunity wanes, and most people are 6-12 months past their second dose by now, if that's of any help.

In a way, you're correct, although as I've noted, we've seen viral surges and restrictions in countries that have much higher vaccination rates than the United States. I recall reading about Singapore, which has one of the highest vaccination rates on the planet, and yet hasn't returned to a mode of normalcy. That's why I'm not convinced we're going to see the lifting of virtually all restrictions even if the vaccination rate increases further, and even if rates are high.

Yeah we've had strip limits of 5 people social gatherings basicaly this entire pandemic and we're at around 95% vaccinated with 50% boostered.

And in Germany and France, they've had strict mask and vaccine mandates, along with vaccine passports, in force or coming into force. There is no logic for countries that have vaccination rates of 80-90% or more maintaining such restrictions.

Germany's vaccination rate is 73% though.

I was referring to Singapore.

Ah, okay... well, it does seem a bit excessive that Singapore tries to curtail social gatherings to five people max. when Germany does the same with ten people at significantly lower vaccination rates. Then again, that's Singapore for you... they're probably also much stricter at enforcement I gather.

Singapore exemplifies why I'm highly skeptical all restrictions will go away after the pandemic is over. It's becoming even clearer to me that some of these measures will be permanent.

IMO, politicians don't do COVID restrictions for "no reason". Okay, some East Asian countries may differ for cultural reasons, I dunno. Things are already way less strict than they had been exactly one year ago and a year from now there will be even less left of it, if anything at all. I mean, I had the very distinct impression during the last couple of weeks that everything my government is doing right now is to smooth the transition from pandemic to endemic and that's basically it. Slowing down the infection rate of Omicron a bit, so not everybody is getting it at the same time, but stretched out over the next three, four months, especially because you can't have all the police, firefighters, hospital personnel, and bus drivers being struck down by COVID all at the same time (in Berlin, public transportation is planning to scale back the bus routes starting tomorrow, simply because they have begun to run out of bus drivers who aren't sick at the moment).

There's going to be some permanent changes, I'm sure of it. Life is never going to fully return to the conditions of 2019.

Well, life is change. It's unrealistic to expect that everything stays always the same, especially with an almost earth-shattering event like a global pandemic. After WWII there was also no going back to a pre-WWII world. That's how history works. But I expect that I can generally live my life as I did before. Most changes will not come from the government anyway, but from the people, as I already noticed for the past two years when friendships have changed/ended/begun because everybody has developed differing levels of concern and caution, and you start to look for COVID compatibility.

Life is change, which is true. But I'm not looking forward to the permanent changes that this pandemic is bringing about.

This is the new 9/11.

THG has said something similarly. And I have increasingly come to believe that such will be the case. I fully expect for the TSA to extend the federal mask mandate when it is up for renewal, and I fully expect for many elements of the "Covid regime", such as quarantines and mass testing, to become the norm even after the pandemic is declared over. We're going to have relics of this, just like we still have relics of 9/11.

I sincerely doubt that as soon COVID has become fully endemic like the flu people would still be willing to quarantine themselves (or that politicians would be willing to implement such policies for that matter). I mean I know people - and personally I share their fears in that regard - who are terribly afraid of catching COVID simply because they're single and live alone and can't imagine to stay on their own at home for a week or longer without getting crazy. And these are people who are supporting most of the restrictions for the moment.

IMO fears that quarantines become "permanent" are unfounded. Quarantine periods are already increasingly shortened as it stands now. I get it that you consider COVID measures to be a pain in the ass. Pretty much everybody does, even those who consider them necessary for the time being. But exactly because everybody considers them a pain in the ass is why they will be gone eventually.

But of course this whole discussion is a bit moot... we're discussing what we expect or fear to happen at indeterminate points in the future. Since we don't know the future there's not much substance to back up arguments either way. This is about beliefs, not facts.

[Middle-aged Europe]

snipped for space

While I think the restrictions are an overreach at this point, the vaccine was never going to move the country beyond the pandemic when you still have 30-50 million people who refuse to get vaccinated, which is driving the hospitalization rates.

My 67 year old mother was exposed to an omicron-positive person over the weekend.

My mom was hesitant to get her 2nd shot, but finally got it on December 22nd.

Since it was only 3 weeks ago she got her second shot, shouldn’t she in theory be more likely to have an effective vaccine response if she ended up getting the virus compared to someone who got their 2nd shot months ago?

I’m a bit concerned, but I think the studies show that vaccines work better against amicron if infection happens closer to the time you got your shot.

She is not overweight and is in good health, by the way.

Even if they were a month apart, it's still more protection than being unvaccinated, and if I recall, the main reason for the booster doses in the first place is because immunity wanes, and most people are 6-12 months past their second dose by now, if that's of any help.

In a way, you're correct, although as I've noted, we've seen viral surges and restrictions in countries that have much higher vaccination rates than the United States. I recall reading about Singapore, which has one of the highest vaccination rates on the planet, and yet hasn't returned to a mode of normalcy. That's why I'm not convinced we're going to see the lifting of virtually all restrictions even if the vaccination rate increases further, and even if rates are high.

Yeah we've had strip limits of 5 people social gatherings basicaly this entire pandemic and we're at around 95% vaccinated with 50% boostered.

And in Germany and France, they've had strict mask and vaccine mandates, along with vaccine passports, in force or coming into force. There is no logic for countries that have vaccination rates of 80-90% or more maintaining such restrictions.

Germany's vaccination rate is 73% though.

I was referring to Singapore.

Ah, okay... well, it does seem a bit excessive that Singapore tries to curtail social gatherings to five people max. when Germany does the same with ten people at significantly lower vaccination rates. Then again, that's Singapore for you... they're probably also much stricter at enforcement I gather.

Singapore exemplifies why I'm highly skeptical all restrictions will go away after the pandemic is over. It's becoming even clearer to me that some of these measures will be permanent.

IMO, politicians don't do COVID restrictions for "no reason". Okay, some East Asian countries may differ for cultural reasons, I dunno. Things are already way less strict than they had been exactly one year ago and a year from now there will be even less left of it, if anything at all. I mean, I had the very distinct impression during the last couple of weeks that everything my government is doing right now is to smooth the transition from pandemic to endemic and that's basically it. Slowing down the infection rate of Omicron a bit, so not everybody is getting it at the same time, but stretched out over the next three, four months, especially because you can't have all the police, firefighters, hospital personnel, and bus drivers being struck down by COVID all at the same time (in Berlin, public transportation is planning to scale back the bus routes starting tomorrow, simply because they have begun to run out of bus drivers who aren't sick at the moment).

There's going to be some permanent changes, I'm sure of it. Life is never going to fully return to the conditions of 2019.

Well, life is change. It's unrealistic to expect that everything stays always the same, especially with an almost earth-shattering event like a global pandemic. After WWII there was also no going back to a pre-WWII world. That's how history works. But I expect that I can generally live my life as I did before. Most changes will not come from the government anyway, but from the people, as I already noticed for the past two years when friendships have changed/ended/begun because everybody has developed differing levels of concern and caution, and you start to look for COVID compatibility.

Life is change, which is true. But I'm not looking forward to the permanent changes that this pandemic is bringing about.

This is the new 9/11.

THG has said something similarly. And I have increasingly come to believe that such will be the case. I fully expect for the TSA to extend the federal mask mandate when it is up for renewal, and I fully expect for many elements of the "Covid regime", such as quarantines and mass testing, to become the norm even after the pandemic is declared over. We're going to have relics of this, just like we still have relics of 9/11.

I sincerely doubt that as soon COVID has become fully endemic like the flu people would still be willing to quarantine themselves (or that politicians would be willing to implement such policies for that matter). I mean I know people - and personally I share their fears in that regard - who are terribly afraid of catching COVID simply because they're single and live alone and can't imagine to stay on their own at home for a week or longer without getting crazy. And these are people who are supporting most of the restrictions for the moment.

IMO fears that quarantines become "permanent" are unfounded. Quarantine periods are already increasingly shortened as it stands now. I get it that you consider COVID measures to be a pain in the ass. Pretty much everybody does, even those who consider them necessary for the time being. But exactly because everybody considers them a pain in the ass is why they will be gone eventually.

But of course this whole discussion is a bit moot... we're discussing what we expect or fear to happen at indeterminate points in the future. Since we don't know the future there's not much substance to back up arguments either way. This is about beliefs, not facts.

You seem to be of the belief that we're going to have an almost entirely complete return to normalcy once this is over. I still am not sure that will be of the case. You're right that we can only speculate on what will happen, but given what's transpired to this point, I remain cautious and skeptical. I'm not going to be convinced otherwise unless things are actually loosened up and for good this time.

Maybe another point - that is based on facts - regarding your belief that quarantine rules will remain in place even after the pandemic. I think that's logically impossible. With the infection rates we've got now, quarantine rules are already loosened because otherwise infrastructure couldn't be maintained any longer. As soon as a full endemic state is reached I assume seven-day incidences of 10,000 or much more will become the norm. And at the end of the time you can't place half the country under quarantine, especially on a semi-permanent basis. Society would break down. You seem to underestimate the usual prevelance of the common cold and the flu and that we'll  getting there too with regards to COVID once there's a true endemic state.

[Middle-aged Europe]

We need normalcy now!

That's exactly what I thought on every day between November 9, 2016 and November 4, 2020.

[Middle-aged Europe]

This forum probably thinks this was a righteous act of civil disobedience.

American Airlines flight bound for London turns around mid-flight over mask rule compliance

An American Airlines passenger plane bound for London turned around mid-flight due to a mask-related disruption on Wednesday.

"American Airlines flight 38 with service from Miami (MIA) to London (LHR) returned to MIA due to a disruptive customer refusing to comply with the federal mask requirement," American Airlines said in a statement.

Local law enforcement met the flight at Miami International Airport, the airline said.
The Miami-Dade Police Department told CNN it was called by the airline regarding a female passenger who refused to wear a mask.

"Once the plane made it to the gate, the passenger was escorted off the plane by MDPD officers without incident. The passenger was then dealt with administratively by American Airlines staff," said Detective A. Colome from the Miami-Dade Police Department.

I don't get people like that. Even when you're opposed to wearing masks, it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that you will be eventually escorted off the plane if you're refusing to do so. So people like that are deliberately missing their flights, which they had already paid for, just to make a point? Too much money in the account, I guess.

[Middle-aged Europe]

2700 deaths today. Very bad.

On the plus side we're now 2 weeks out from the probable peak in cases, so hopefully the deaths are peaking soon.

2800 deaths today and yesterday was revised to 3100 which is the most since last winter. Very bad.

I'm old enough to remember when 3000 people died so we changed our society, went to war in multiple countries, and spent trillions of dollars. Now, that many people are dting every day or two and people keep whining about how uncomfortable masks are and how they want things to go back to normal. Quite a difference.

Then which of the Covid view camps do you fall into? Your comments seem to suggest that you fall into Camp #2.

If we want to have any hope of getting this virus under control, we need to be in camp 2.

“Getting the virus under control” has to be one of the most LOL worthy statements you can make at this point.  Why do we seem to be one of the shrinking number of countries who think we can control it?  Why have some folks not learned after 2 years of this?

Having hundreds of deaths a day is unacceptable. Period. And plenty of countries have done better than us.

There is no way to prevent them. Full stop. Short of putting everyone under house arrest, hundreds of people will die. Omicron spreads far to quickly to try and control, it's impossible. #ZeroCovid people live in a fantasy land. Covid is never going away. There is nothing we can do to stop it other than getting vaccinated. Continuing lockdowns, mask mandates, and shutting down schools does way more harm than good, and wouldn't stop the spread anyway. We just have to let it burn itself out and hope it becomes endemic.

Aside from the minor point that I don't see how mask mandates can do "more harm than good" (there it is again, that weird Atlas fetish with masks) I agree with your post more than I disagree.   Well, and while schools should remain open IMO, a mixed or hybrid system of in-presence and remote learning should be maintained because many of the students are often temporarily quarantined at home.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Day 1 of no restrictions here in Denmark. Feels great. Case numbers are extremely high - more than 40k a day (10 times more than the peak last winter)- but basically nobody gets seriously sick from Omicron here. The total number of people in intensive care is now a paltry 28 persons and is now the lowest since october, which was pre-Omicron. Basically, we have had record high infections throughout january while at the very same time the number of infected in intensive care has fallen by 60%. This is because basically everybody who needed intensive care from COVID had the Delta variant and now that we basically only have Omicron nobody needs intensive care anymore. The remaining 28 are mostly NOT there because of their Omicron infection, but just happen to have it. This is even more pronounced when you look at deaths, where pretty much everyone currently registrered as dying from COVID is actually dying WITH COVID instead, unlike earlier in the pandemic.  

I have supported restrictions and mandates since the beginning, but people need to start to realize that the Omicron variant really isn't very dangerous and that we have ALL the medical tools to combat this disease now in vaccines and therapeutics (most notably Paxlovid from Pfizer). I have no idea why other countries aren't doing like Denmark and the UK at this point. I imagine it has to be right around the corner.

Also, from a political perspective, democrats are gonna get killed if they insist on heavy restrictions way after they cease to be necessary.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that all restrictions were dropped by a united parliament. All parties/groups in parliament supported it, from the far left to the far right.

Our situation is complicated by higher numbers of deaths we’re seeing. It’s not clear whether this is because of lower vaccination numbers, stronger presence of comorbidities, or other things, but it’s giving our leaders pause.

I suspect it is coming in the next few weeks, though. We’ve already seen public health leaders giving the signals.

NY seems to be doubling down on restrictions despite the fact that Omicron peaked here three weeks ago, and now we are basically at the same case levels as we had when this mask mandate was put into effect, supposedly just to stop the holiday surge

I feel like we are in a world of phantom restrictions where no restrictions are ever actually imposed but anti-restriction people feel like they are being imposed anyway.

That ties in neatly with all the "I want my country back!" narrative though.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Let's face it! The only reason Democrats are pushing covid restrictions at this point.. its obvious.

They want Florida very bad and think pushing covid restrictions in their states will make people move to Florida, Texas, etc.. and flip them blue. It will literally be the most counter productive plot ever.

You're deranged.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Mask-wearing is the second worst thing next to the Holocaust. The pandemic is OVER... as I have learned in my two weeks at Fox News Medical School.