Canada General Discussion (2019-)

[Middle-aged Europe]

Where and how can I donate so that GiveSendGo actually loses money?

[2952-0-0]

Trudeau is now meeting with the leaders of the opposition parties. If I had to guess, it could very well be to invoke the Emergencies Act.

"Just watch me."

[StateBoiler]

Trudeau is now meeting with the leaders of the opposition parties. If I had to guess, it could very well be to invoke the Emergencies Act.

"Just watch me."

Congratulations to the man if so on demonstrating for the first time in his time in charge as Prime Minister of Canada he's not a castrated eunuch.

[Benjamin Frank]

No, whole cities are not being burned down in protest.  That is an outright lie.

Well, right wingers bought the myth of these new rules, since the vast majority of BLM protests didn't involve riots or otherwise illegal acts.

Beyond that, all 100% of these terrorists are blocking the streets of downtown Ottawa, impeding traffic and forcing businesses to close.  This, in itself, is subject to an injunction.

I find it more than a little odd that many of the same people who are praising Lightbound also criticized Prime Minister Trudeau for exercising his free speech rights in telling it like it is in regards to the Ottawa terrorists

Remarkably hypocriticial

I have no idea what you are talking about. There are no bigger hypocrites than pseudo moral religious types.

[Benjamin Frank]

Candice Bergen is calling on the protestors to go home. It seems like the convoy's political capital has run out, and frankly, they've done it to themselves, as things have gone on long enough and gotten noticeably more unhinged. The CPC is right in trying to disown this, in case things get violent, but it would have been a lot smarter to take a neutral stance in the first place.

What's crazy is, nobody's come out of this looking good. The convoy is losing support by the day. Both Trudeau and Ford are being criticized for their response - Trudeau in particular is also getting caucus dissent (I think there's more than Lightbound and Rouillard, a governing party's MP doesn't call the government's policy divisive and unfair without getting kicked out - unless there are others backing them). The Tories have hitched their wagons to an unpopular movement, and are trying to distance themselves this late in the game.

On the Liberal side, I suspect the desire was to keep it a one day story, which they did.  

The Canadian media is one of the most responsible for what's going on with their lies that there are magical Kumbaya solutions to political problems that can satisfy everybody's concerns.  And, I suspect the Liberals just decided there was no need to fight this media stupidity at this time as well.

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

As the different jurisdictions play hot potato with responsibility the situation only continues to deteriorate. A new blockade popped up in Manitoba, a rolling blockade surrounded the Ottawa Airport and the blockades in Coutts and Windsor have only grown. The latter now features several new structures including, and I swear I'm not making this up, a giant inflatable beaver. OPP have started arriving but not enough, so now they're waiting on RCMP backup. As the CBC put it, it seems the police are always a step behind and now hundreds of millions of trade a day are at the mercy of trucker warlord Hot Donna. My guess is they either move tonight or tomorrow night with RCMP (or possibly military) backup because the crowd will surely increase substantially if it lasts to the weekend.

As if the situation wasn't embarrassing enough, now the US is "offering assistance" like we're Kazakhstan and they're Russia or something.

[Storr]

Trudeau is now meeting with the leaders of the opposition parties. If I had to guess, it could very well be to invoke the Emergencies Act.

"Just watch me."

I feel like sending in the military would be an excessive move. People blocking ports of entry and annoying the residents of Ottawa isn't comparable to terrorists bombing institutions and kidnapping diplomats/government officials (the FLQ hadn't yet killed Laporte when the War Measures Act was enacted). If you're going to take any action against the truckers have the police to arrest them or set up a perimeter allowing the border crossings to reopen and then send in the military to protect downtown Ottawa and border crossings as a show of force (like the US sending in the National Guard to the Capitol after the January 5th "legitimate political discourse" happened).

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

Agree his riding is not that safe and I can't imagine the truckers are particularly popular there.  But he obviously takes pleasure in the so-called Freedom Convoy making life miserable for "leftists" in Ottawa.

The Ottawa suburbs have been trending left the same way that the Toronto and Vancouver suburbs are. The suburban realignment is not just a US thing.

[T'Chenka]

The television news in Canada tonight reported that a bunch of people, presumably protestors / "truckers" in Ottawa today were clogging up 911 with fake calls, likely for the purpose of wasting the police's time / f__king with them. Stay classy guys and gals.

[2952-0-0]

I feel like sending in the military would be an excessive move. People blocking ports of entry and annoying the residents of Ottawa isn't comparable to terrorists bombing institutions and kidnapping diplomats/government officials (the FLQ hadn't yet killed Laporte when the War Measures Act was enacted). If you're going to take any action against the truckers have the police to arrest them or set up a perimeter allowing the border crossings to reopen and then send in the military to protect downtown Ottawa and border crossings as a show of force (like the US sending in the National Guard to the Capitol after the January 5th "legitimate political discourse" happened).

If this was described about another country:

• Losing control of the core of the capital city to an armed anti-government group led by retired military and police officials, with police either unable or unwilling to enforce the law
• The group setting up shop literally across the street from the HQ of the national police
• The same group sending a mob to harass the capital city's residents, its airport, and schools
• Important border crossings blockaded by supporters of the armed group, immediately crippling the manufacturing industry

We would say the state is on the brink of collapse. Invoking the Emergencies Act doesn't necessarily mean soldiers in the streets. In this case, it could include making it a crime to block highways or border crossings, and allowing police to disperse blockades without court order. Police could also be allowed to stop and search vehicles without a warrant. The army could be drafted in to remove the vehicles in downtown Ottawa, and used as a propaganda show of force after the fact as you described. No one wants a Tiananmen Square, except the far-right grift machine.

[StateBoiler]

I feel like sending in the military would be an excessive move. People blocking ports of entry and annoying the residents of Ottawa isn't comparable to terrorists bombing institutions and kidnapping diplomats/government officials (the FLQ hadn't yet killed Laporte when the War Measures Act was enacted). If you're going to take any action against the truckers have the police to arrest them or set up a perimeter allowing the border crossings to reopen and then send in the military to protect downtown Ottawa and border crossings as a show of force (like the US sending in the National Guard to the Capitol after the January 5th "legitimate political discourse" happened).

If this was described about another country:

• Losing control of the core of the capital city to an armed anti-government group led by retired military and police officials, with police either unable or unwilling to enforce the law
• The group setting up shop literally across the street from the HQ of the national police
• The same group sending a mob to harass the capital city's residents, its airport, and schools
• Important border crossings blockaded by supporters of the armed group, immediately crippling the manufacturing industry

Not a capital city, but kind of happened in Seattle 18 months ago. Minus the ex-military part. I know how the left would've reacted if military got deployed.

The analogy for this is late 19th/early 20th century labor actions that intended to grind society to a halt to achieve what they wanted that workers' rights activists mythologize over. And just like those instances, the state's about to come in.

Times like these it pays to have a good strong leader willing to take risks for the good of the country, doesn't it Canadians? Anyone in the Liberal Party caucus in Parliament capable of that?

[StateBoiler]

Politico Ottawa Playbook:

More meetings: Then [Trudeau] had a meeting with Windsor Mayor DREW DILKENS. Then an evening meeting with opposition leaders (rare!) CANDICE BERGEN, JAGMEET SINGH, YVES-FRANÇOIS BLANCHET and ELIZABETH MAY.

Dilkens told reporters the complicating wrinkle is the fact the Windsor movement is leaderless, which makes negotiations, well, tricky. Another tricky matter is the White House’s desire to see Ottawa exercise its federal powers to unclog the border blockades quickly.

As POLITICO’s ANDY BLATCHFORD reports, U.S. Homeland Security Secretary ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS and Transportation Secretary PETE BUTTIGIEG have each pressed their Canadian counterparts to pull on federal levers to end the border shutdown.

Seems activists have learned something from the BLM protests. If you have no leader, there's no focus, meaning governments can't negotiate leading to a compromise. They either give up and concede so the activists fade away, or have to go heavy-handed dispersal, which plays into the activists' long-term strategy.

https://www.tvo.org/article/all-these-truckers-and-no-one-at-the-wheel

OPINION: We’re in the midst of multiple crises. Where have all our leaders gone?

...

On Thursday, reports emerged that the Ontario government wasn’t sitting down with federal and municipal counterparts regarding the Ottawa situation, because the meetings “don’t accomplish anything.” Then show up, dammit, and pound the table and throw your shoes around the room and toss chairs through the window until something is accomplished. If the feds and Ottawa are too stunned to make a call, someone from Queen’s Park needs to take the wheel.

Or from Ottawa! Or from the federal government! Who cares?! Lock them in a room until someone discovers a spine and starts leading the effort. This is literally the least they could do — and the least they owe the people.

Wow. This man speaks to me.

[StateBoiler]

As the different jurisdictions play hot potato with responsibility the situation only continues to deteriorate. A new blockade popped up in Manitoba, a rolling blockade surrounded the Ottawa Airport and the blockades in Coutts and Windsor have only grown.

Maybe things are different in Canada, but how is a federal border being blocked a provincial responsibility to get it back open? Manitoba and Ontario do not border the United States, Canada does. The agents at the border crossings are not provincial employees, they're federal employees.

[T'Chenka]

As the different jurisdictions play hot potato with responsibility the situation only continues to deteriorate. A new blockade popped up in Manitoba, a rolling blockade surrounded the Ottawa Airport and the blockades in Coutts and Windsor have only grown.

Maybe things are different in Canada, but how is a federal border being blocked a provincial responsibility to get it back open? Manitoba and Ontario do not border the United States, Canada does. The agents at the border crossings are not provincial employees, they're federal employees.

The two governments (federal and provincial) are playing hot potato with it, trying not to piss off pro-convoy voters. Trudeau is hoping the premiers will deal with it and take the heat, while at the same time, the premiers are hoping Trudeau deals with it. The word on the street is that we are now at a point in time where - if you believe the rumours - Trudeau feels like he has to do something, and he may declare a state of emergency today.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

As if the situation wasn't embarrassing enough, now the US is "offering assistance" like we're Kazakhstan and they're Russia or something.

What kind of assistance can US provide???

[StateBoiler]

As the different jurisdictions play hot potato with responsibility the situation only continues to deteriorate. A new blockade popped up in Manitoba, a rolling blockade surrounded the Ottawa Airport and the blockades in Coutts and Windsor have only grown.

Maybe things are different in Canada, but how is a federal border being blocked a provincial responsibility to get it back open? Manitoba and Ontario do not border the United States, Canada does. The agents at the border crossings are not provincial employees, they're federal employees.

The two governments (federal and provincial) are playing hot potato with it, trying not to piss off pro-convoy voters. Trudeau is hoping the premiers will deal with it and take the heat, while at the same time, the premiers are hoping Trudeau deals with it. The word on the street is that we are now at a point in time where - if you believe the rumours - Trudeau feels like he has to do something, and he may declare a state of emergency today.

To the bolded, so much hate. If he's not willing to take the heat on this to do what he thinks is right, he's welcome to resign and the Liberal Party can pick a better leader.

Unless Trudeau thinks Manitoba should become its own sovereign state, getting the Canadian international border in Manitoba back open is his government's responsibility. The protests in Ottawa are different because there's no international border aspect of it and Ottawa is Ontarian provincial authority unless we're talking federal buildings and avenues where Ontario has no jurisdiction. Blocking the bridge at Windsor crossing to Detroit, that's federal responsibility again, not Ontario.

[Gass3268]

Ford is ready to smash.

https://twitter.com/carlquintanilla/status/1492166414362460168?s=20&t=OJ70x8...

[DC Al Fine]

Doug Ford has announced that he will remove the vaccine passport system from Ontario "very soon".

[DC Al Fine]

We've seen more substantive movement towards normalcy in the last two weeks in this country than we've seen in the whole pandemic. Ford is just the latest in a series of politicians shifting their approach to COVID. 

The narrative that the trucker protests would be ineffective or even prolong restrictions is looking more and more like wishcasting.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Doug Ford has announced that he will remove the vaccine passport system from Ontario "very soon".

History has taught us that appeasement makes the aggressor only more aggressive. Ford needs to set an example in order to create a credible deterrence to prevent future transgressions.

[MaxQue]

Ford declared the state of emergency, will publish degrees later banning blocking or slowing down traffic of persons, goods and services on the border, the 400s highways, harbours, bridges and railroads, with fines of up to 100000$, 1 year in jail and the suspension of both personal driver licences and commercial trucking licences of violators.

[StateBoiler]

Doug Ford has announced that he will remove the vaccine passport system from Ontario "very soon".

History has taught us that appeasement makes the aggressor only more aggressive. Ford needs to set an example in order to create a credible deterrence to prevent future transgressions.

So are you guys planning on canceling Nord Stream 2 when the Russians invade Ukraine?

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-canada-business-leaders-demand-end-to-bridge-blockade-11644592039
Canada Bridge Protesters Agree to Open One Lane From U.S.
Business leaders demand end to blockade, with ruling expected Friday on whether police can remove demonstrators at Ambassador Bridge

Protesters who have blocked a crucial U.S.-Canada trade corridor decided Friday to open a lane of traffic for U.S. vehicles entering Canada, hours before a Canadian judge is expected to rule on whether police can remove the demonstrators.

A group of protesters, who have choked off most access to the Ambassador Bridge, decided that opening up a lane might weaken the argument of lawyers for the Canadian border city of Windsor, Ontario, and the automotive industry, who seek to persuade a court that protesters need to be forcibly removed.

The province of Ontario declared a state of emergency, citing the blockade at the bridge and a protest in Ottawa. Premier Doug Ford said Friday his cabinet would issue orders that would establish steep fines for demonstrators who block trade corridors such as highways and airports, and give authorities the power to revoke the driver’s licenses of protesters in Ottawa and at the Ambassador Bridge.

The bridge connects Detroit to Canada, and is a conduit for automotive trade. One lane of the bridge was open for drivers from Canada to head to the U.S., although the bridge operator has said traffic levels are sharply reduced. Drivers from the U.S. can’t access Canada through the bridge because of the protest.

[Хahar 🤔]

Doug Ford has announced that he will remove the vaccine passport system from Ontario "very soon".

History has taught us that appeasement makes the aggressor only more aggressive. Ford needs to set an example in order to create a credible deterrence to prevent future transgressions.

Are you suggesting that the proper response would be to punish everyone with more lockdowns?

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Doug Ford has announced that he will remove the vaccine passport system from Ontario "very soon".

History has taught us that appeasement makes the aggressor only more aggressive. Ford needs to set an example in order to create a credible deterrence to prevent future transgressions.

Are you suggesting that the proper response would be to punish everyone with more lockdowns?

COVID policy ought to not to be controlled by what is or isn't "appeasement". It ought to be premised on what is likely to work if enacted and everyone abided by it, checked by how effective it would most likely be at its goals.