Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[Badger]

Is Ukraine fighting back? Do we have reports of actual fighting or just Russian advances?

No. It's total blow out.

Quit cheering the deaths of thousands and the death of a democratic country you effing ghoul.

[Badger]

Gotfan has been muted from this board for a day.

Great.  Now do Vicious Russian Bear.

[Badger]

Pretty sure Seuss didn’t intend to support imperialism with this comic.

self-defense isn't imperialism.

If Ukraine wants self defense, that is their imperative. But then they aren’t saving “foreign children.”

 Is there a single point about this cartoon that you have failed to grasp? You are literally batting like 0 for 3 right now..

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/McFaul/status/1496704838586880006

Must be difficult typing that with one hand.

[Badger]

I have been extremely critical of Zelensky, but he has impressed me a great deal in the last 24 hours. Even if I would preferred Tymoshenko or Poroshenko.

We are coming Father Volodymyr!

Except we're not.

[Badger]

May every Russian  Soldier who enters the Ukraine catch a bullet through the eye socket.  Every. God. Damned. One.

There, I said it.

[Badger]

May every Russian  Soldier who enters the Ukraine catch a bullet through the eye socket.  Every. God. Damned. One.

There, I said it.

Not very Christ-like of you, Badger.

 Don't you have a spate of unintelligible completely obtuse obtuse and missing the point posts to make somehow defending this?

Piss off.

[Badger]

Classic EU.

https://twitter.com/MatinaStevis/status/1496758467943866374?s=20

 "Gee, we really genuinely support the concept of of liberal democratic governments not being crushed by an authoritarian imperialist invading force right on our border--but what about our diamonds and  luxury goods?!?? "

Pathetic. Literally satire level.

[Badger]

So is this Zelensky's master plan? Arming the citizenry and expecting people to turn their cities and towns into all-out war zones? Do the users in this thread promoting this idea understand the misery and destruction that insurgencies bring?

I'm not saying the people of Ukraine should give up without a fight, but there has to be a limit to what you expect of civilian populations.

Zelensky has been criminally incompetent. It's hard not to wonder if he's in league with the Russians at this point.

What evidence is there of that as opposed to the fact Ukraine is fundamentally outmatched militarily by Russia?

[Badger]

We probably lack the info needed to put a (likely) Russian defeat at Hostomel airport in a wider context. It's definitely good for Ukraine on net in terms of winning or losing this war, but it's not necessarily good enough for Ukraine. We shall see a more complete picture in due time.

Even the significant tactical successes that Ukraine is achieving are, in my opinion, striking, regardless of whether it is realistic to expect them to lead to any sort of immediate strategic conventional victory.

There is a marked contrast between e.g. the US/allied military performance in the First Gulf war, the 2nd Gulf War, and whatever you call what Russia is doing right now.

Russia should be able to eventually win the conventional part of the war (the occupation and potential insurgency being another phase and another matter), but this looks a lot more like a fight between semi-equal/competitive powers, not the sort of curbstomp that I think a lot of people were expecting.

Russia is showing surprising weakness. Unless they have something significant up their sleeves, this can't have been what Putin had hoped for when he put this into motion.

If Russia is having this much difficulty already, they may have a lot more difficulty if and win urban combat gets going.


And by the way, just because I really need to get it off my chest and feel like I really need to say this, F*** Putin.

Considering that the war doesn't seem to be that popular in Russia, is it possible that at least some Russian troops just don't put that much effort into it?

No. Soldiers fight for their buddies in the unit and their lives. Plus rigorous training to act as indeed. Political unpopularity won't affect morale after significant time, not 24 hours in.

Not to mention I question how unpopular the war really is. The demonstrations are relatively sparse, and the average Russian, happily brainwashed by uncontridicted state media, probably tends to share the nationalist "Russia is surrounded by enemies and must attack in self defense" mentality.

[Badger]

The Ukrainians are going to bleed the Russians until they leave, and they are going to do so with (at least) the funding and diplomatic support of the Western World. The Russian army of 2021 isn’t the Red Army of 1941-45, bound together by ideology and fear of Nazi extermination, it’s cold and hungry and being sent to die in a foreign country for a madman’s vanity. The Russians may conquer Ukraine, but they will never hold it.

The the Russians have already sent in half of their forces at the border and they haven't even taken any major cities yet?
https://twitter.com/haynesdeborah/status/1496975432519983107?s=20&t=z4E1xL77...

I hope this is correct about the low morale.

 You and me both, but it frankly sounds like total propaganda.

[Badger]

Anonymous has claimed responsibility for hacking Russian Gvt websites just a short time ago, as my joking may have referred to very recently here on Atlas,

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/25/ukraine-invasion-russia-news/#link-FOVYOBZOEJEFTF7JMDFHXIWMCY

Get 'em!

[Badger]

Georgia, ironically, refuse to join in sanctions against Russia.   Georgia PM Garibashvili says that sanctions would be "irresponsible and harmful".

 Ironically nothing. They understand full well that they are on the brink of a similar invasion which, unlike the Ukraine, they probably can't resist and would turn their country into another Chechnya

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1497225270310354949

What is Russia going to say?

"Oh, I accept your term of surrender"

That's how wars have worked since the beginning of time.

Many wars, Possibly a majority, actually end when Bo when both sides effectively say OK that's enough let's end this before More blood is spilled because frankly we both paid enough. Even if the end resulting borders aren't antibellum.

 Unfortunately, I doubt that's the case here.

[Badger]

Putin doesn't want NATO Troops so close to his border, views it as Security Threat!

If Putin dares to do anything against Finland, NATO will attack nonetheless, in my view. Finland is a EU member, thus, if Russia attacks Finland, it's invading the EU and there's a cooperation treaty between NATO and the EU, so a military response to it would most likely happen.

I don't see EU moving without the U.S. France and Germany literally admitted in the last 48 hours their militaries are horrifically unprepared for an intense conflict.

If I'm Ukraine, and I see NATO come to the defense of Finland when they wouldn't come to the defense of me, I'm pissed.

I don't see Russia going into Finland, but a lot of people didn't see Russia going into Ukraine either (in spite of forces being stationed on the border for 3 months).

The chances of this going hot were underestimated precisely because people didn't like the thought of war to begin with. They wanted to comfortably retreat to "oh, this is mostly a bluff" or some other explanation besides "yes, Putin intends to send his troops into Ukraine".
It is probably most often the case the risk of hot conflict is overestimated; this is one of the times when the opposite is true.

To dumb down this whole conflict it's:

[Russia put troops all around Ukrainian border]
Ukraine: "What are you doing?"
Russia: "Give us these security guarantees. You're not living up to Minsk."
Ukraine: "No! West, step in here, we're going to do nothing for the next 3 months except berate you on how you're not properly supporting us."
Russia: "Okay. Give us these security guarantees on Ukraine."
West: "That's too much. We will not do it. Come back when you're being realistic."
Russia: "We have forces situated all around Ukraine."
West: "You're not going to invade. You're bluffing."
[Russia invades]
West: "What the hell?!?"

 That is the most grossly inaccurate Accounting of events I can imagine someone presenting with a straight face.

[Badger]

Putin doesn't want NATO Troops so close to his border, views it as Security Threat!

If Putin dares to do anything against Finland, NATO will attack nonetheless, in my view. Finland is a EU member, thus, if Russia attacks Finland, it's invading the EU and there's a cooperation treaty between NATO and the EU, so a military response to it would most likely happen.

I don't see EU moving without the U.S. France and Germany literally admitted in the last 48 hours their militaries are horrifically unprepared for an intense conflict.

If I'm Ukraine, and I see NATO come to the defense of Finland when they wouldn't come to the defense of me, I'm pissed.

I don't see Russia going into Finland, but a lot of people didn't see Russia going into Ukraine either (in spite of forces being stationed on the border for 3 months).

The chances of this going hot were underestimated precisely because people didn't like the thought of war to begin with. They wanted to comfortably retreat to "oh, this is mostly a bluff" or some other explanation besides "yes, Putin intends to send his troops into Ukraine".
It is probably most often the case the risk of hot conflict is overestimated; this is one of the times when the opposite is true.

To dumb down this whole conflict it's:

[Russia put troops all around Ukrainian border]
Ukraine: "What are you doing?"
Russia: "Give us these security guarantees. You're not living up to Minsk."
Ukraine: "No! West, step in here, we're going to do nothing for the next 3 months except berate you on how you're not properly supporting us."
Russia: "Okay. Give us these security guarantees on Ukraine."
West: "That's too much. We will not do it. Come back when you're being realistic."
Russia: "We have forces situated all around Ukraine."
West: "You're not going to invade. You're bluffing."
[Russia invades]
West: "What the hell?!?"

You can take your Russian propaganda and shove it, Comrade

Some people are just dumb.

If you actually are Ukrainian - it's hard to tell because most people on this forum lie about where they're from - I'm sorry, dude. Best of luck to you.

 Mr. X is a lawyer in central Ohio.  And hes right.

[Badger]

I honestly think every Russia apologist on this site besides Santander has a single-digit IQ.

 And non coincidentally, santander isantander is probably just joking//trolling as he is want to do (probably)

[Badger]

Nice to see this administration's intelligent enough to maintain working relations. You want to do things in the world, you gotta deal with governments.
Presidents have to deal with and cooperate with unsavory people all the time.

 Maybe. But for Christ's sake don't establish that Russia isn't completely cut off while they are in the midst of of an invasion of a sovereign country. Keep the message line clear that they are and will continue to be pariah's, and then, later, if and when needed, deal with them through diplomatic backchannels when it is truly in the US interest.

Simply don't undercut your most important point right up front.

[Badger]

If Ukraine somehow is spared, it will be in spite of, and not because of Biden and NATO.

 Disagree. The material and intelligence support and support the US and nato has provided has been incalculable.  Is the sanctions less so, but still a factor.

We could have done more-looking at you Italy and Belgium refusing to wean yourself off of Russian produce luxury goods and diamonds for Pete's sake-but NATO and Biden  Did pretty much all they could hear with only some missteps.

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/markhertling/status/1497253373648719876?s=21

Oh yeah here’s this too

 May the driver of that tank have their spine shattered till they are paralyzed, then have a group of partisans beat them to death Over the course ofseveral excruciating hours.

[Badger]

TAKE THIS WITH A BUCKET OF SALT

Video reportedly shows an APC getting showered by Molotovs in Kiev

https://twitter.com/DavidRi66650282/status/1497411007865573382

 Good. Kill them all, and let's satan sort them out.

[Badger]

Another tweet roundup:

https://twitter.com/jgoodman751/status/1497552891317526537?s=21

https://twitter.com/mrmojorisin510/status/1497530178674724864?s=21

https://twitter.com/claperdrix/status/1497552109314748420?s=21

https://twitter.com/euromaidanpr/status/1497554911118114816?s=21

https://twitter.com/mars_is_calling/status/1497341454154403847?s=21

https://twitter.com/angry_staffer/status/1497586819994636300?s=21

https://twitter.com/angry_staffer/status/1497580688106741762?s=21

https://twitter.com/lexingtonbobby/status/1497569481945661446?s=21

 Forgive  Quoting the massive Block quoted, but the last tweet by David Frum  Bears repeating. Every single  Person who today bleats "I stand with Ukraine!!" , but just a couple years ago derided derided trump's grotesque violation of his country's foreign policy interests for naked political gain and wrote it off as a hoax are complete ignorant And hippocrytical f##ks.  Sorry not sorry, but there is absolutely no kinder word to describe any of you, either on or off Atlas.

This this was why we needed to ensure A properly armed Ukraine, not that trump could find c*** out about Joe Biden's son. The fact whether or not munitions got there eventually is secondary perit's secondary. You chose to support trump despite his disgusting undermining of Ukraine's national security and America's national security interest, and Manny know, most of you right wingers continue to do so to this day.

If any one of you had a shred of spine in your Hypocritical bodies your response to this would be "I am so sorry Ukraine. I will never trust Donald Trump again" . But you won't. #IstandwithUkraineuntillTrumpsaysdon't

 Inorant. Hypocritical. F###s.

[Badger]

Russians now reportedly dumping their soldiers into the sea to save the Ukrainians the trouble of shooting them:

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1497664806958030851?s=20&t=b_94FJ3infb...

Freeze and drown motherf##kers.  Freeze and drown.

[Badger]

While I used to be able to sympathize with some of Putin's views on certain issues, now I just can't. Putin is 100% without a doubt a war criminal now and I do not sympathize with war criminals! I still don't support US troops in Ukraine and hope that both sides can find a solution rather quickly, which sadly looks pretty unlikely at this point.

Just thought I'd give my two cents.

 I am trying to restrain myself from hyperbole in asking this, but on what possible issues could one agree with Vladimir Putin on? Serious question.

[Badger]

While I used to be able to sympathize with some of Putin's views on certain issues, now I just can't. Putin is 100% without a doubt a war criminal now and I do not sympathize with war criminals! I still don't support US troops in Ukraine and hope that both sides can find a solution rather quickly, which sadly looks pretty unlikely at this point.

Just thought I'd give my two cents.

 I am trying to restrain myself from hyperbole in asking this, but on what possible issues could one agree with Vladimir Putin on? Serious question.

Bringing stability to your country and raising it up from being an Oligarch dominated disaster zone like Russia in the 1990s or the United States.

 Hooray. He turned it into an autocratic puppet state cracking down on all forms of democracy.  And how completely out of out of reality it is to say that Putin has somehow removed Russia from being "oligarch dominated" . It completely is now even worse than the nineties, it's just now there his own oligarchs in his back pocket..

Your. Values are completely out of whack.