Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #28825 on: April 11, 2024, 06:52:23 AM »

Ukraine Says Kyiv Region’s Largest Power Plant Destroyed

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(Bloomberg) -- The largest power plant in the region surrounding the Ukrainian capital was destroyed in a Russian missile attack.
Six missiles hit the Trypilska plant south of Kyiv Thursday morning, according to a person familiar familiar with the strike. The attack set the facility owned by state-run electricity and heat producer Centrenergo ablaze, the person said on condition of anonymity.
Over the past month, Russia intensified strikes on Ukraine’s power infrastructure as Kyiv struggles with a shortage of ammunition and manpower. A large-scale overnight missile and drone attack targeted power infrastructure and underground gas storage in five regions across Ukraine.
Yet another reason why Russian oil infrastructure is fair game for Ukraine...
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Open Source Intelligence
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« Reply #28826 on: April 11, 2024, 08:01:08 AM »

Given that the Iranian and North Koreans are basically helping for free in propping up the supplies of the Russian army and in a lot of cases being labor and advising auxiliaries and that this is turning the tides of the war, Russia basically has a blank cheque in wasting as much equipment on the field. They can do this because Xi Jinping has basically given up in trying to exert pressure over Russia and are helping bankroll the Russian economy for what amounts to peanuts.

Russia have also in this war been using up previous-generation Soviet equipment inventory of which they had a ton.
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Sir Mohamed
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« Reply #28827 on: April 11, 2024, 09:28:06 AM »

Ukraine Says Kyiv Region’s Largest Power Plant Destroyed

Quote
(Bloomberg) -- The largest power plant in the region surrounding the Ukrainian capital was destroyed in a Russian missile attack.
Six missiles hit the Trypilska plant south of Kyiv Thursday morning, according to a person familiar familiar with the strike. The attack set the facility owned by state-run electricity and heat producer Centrenergo ablaze, the person said on condition of anonymity.
Over the past month, Russia intensified strikes on Ukraine’s power infrastructure as Kyiv struggles with a shortage of ammunition and manpower. A large-scale overnight missile and drone attack targeted power infrastructure and underground gas storage in five regions across Ukraine.
Yet another reason why Russian oil infrastructure is fair game for Ukraine...

Yup, though they don't have the proper missiles because NATO members aren't doing enough.
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Agafin
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« Reply #28828 on: April 11, 2024, 11:12:39 AM »

For the first time since the beginning of the war, I now think that Ukraine will lose and decisively at that. This is incredibly sad. The only way for them to win at this point would be for western countries to send troops on the ground and that's absolutely not happening.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #28829 on: April 11, 2024, 12:41:33 PM »

For the first time since the beginning of the war, I now think that Ukraine will lose and decisively at that. This is incredibly sad. The only way for them to win at this point would be for western countries to send troops on the ground and that's absolutely not happening.
What has caused this shift in opinion and why?
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #28830 on: April 11, 2024, 12:42:44 PM »

Given that the Iranian and North Koreans are basically helping for free in propping up the supplies of the Russian army and in a lot of cases being labor and advising auxiliaries and that this is turning the tides of the war, Russia basically has a blank cheque in wasting as much equipment on the field. They can do this because Xi Jinping has basically given up in trying to exert pressure over Russia and are helping bankroll the Russian economy for what amounts to peanuts.

Russia have also in this war been using up previous-generation Soviet equipment inventory of which they had a ton.
For that matter, doesn't Ukraine have some of those stocks as well? Or had.
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Dan the Roman
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« Reply #28831 on: April 11, 2024, 12:45:43 PM »

Given that the Iranian and North Koreans are basically helping for free in propping up the supplies of the Russian army and in a lot of cases being labor and advising auxiliaries and that this is turning the tides of the war, Russia basically has a blank cheque in wasting as much equipment on the field. They can do this because Xi Jinping has basically given up in trying to exert pressure over Russia and are helping bankroll the Russian economy for what amounts to peanuts.

And for what exactly? Iran got repaid through years of blood and tears in the Middle East for the Russians to swoop in and basically recognize Arabian sovereignty over the Persian gulf. Armenia was repaid by its participation and close relationship in the dead CSTO by the Russians all but abandoning them. If the former player got kicked to the curb because Putin wanted to ensure good relations for its oligarchy to play in Dubai, what is to say Russia won’t abandon the helping trio for what amounts to Putin plunging deep into bull•••• to find a corn kernel. Maybe Trump goes, but MAGA still remains and Putin has shown repeatedly that he prefers a Russia surrounded by likeminded boors in America and the white world like Steven Seagal and he isn’t afraid to throw the political capital he built up among allies to go be with a better crowd, even if that means throwing his vassals abroad under the bus and betraying his allies.

He has the personal views of Steve Bannon and the personality of Trump. The latter doesn’t care about people he views as beneath him and is willing to break from the existing international system and take on the world with fellows like his dictator club, and the former is an ardent fascist who obsesses about historical reactionary angst and engage in nonsense like helping some Chinese asset to overthrow the PRC in the Himalayas over butthurt Mao did by throwing the chains off the Chinese. What exactly is stopping Putin from rediscovering Russian irredentism over East Asia and anti-communist agendas once he is done with Ukraine. Given historical context, when Hitler was done in the western front, going after the nonwhite communist party member in charge in Moscow was the next logical step.

Russia’s main border is with east Asia after all, and by getting so much help for what amounts to absolutely nothing, what’s to say he won’t hang his sponsors once all of this is over? What’s to say history won’t repeat itself and the American-Russo alliance doesn’t fulfill the botched dream of ending the yellow peril with so much money and resources to mop up the rest of the world.

A Russian defeat would be worse for Xi than a stalemate or Russian victory. A Russian victory produces infighting between the US/Europe, harms Western prestige in Latin America/Africa, and inconveniences Biden by denying him success. I am unsure China is losing money on this conflict, so why wouldn't they?

This is the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Russia gains from weakening American influence in Europe. Iran gains from weakening it in the Middle East. China gains from weakening it everywhere.
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Hindsight was 2020
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« Reply #28832 on: April 11, 2024, 01:01:44 PM »


Really interesting development, I was wondering the source of the ammo the Czech found
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UWS
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« Reply #28833 on: April 11, 2024, 04:06:44 PM »
« Edited: April 11, 2024, 04:11:51 PM by UWS »

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/30962
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UWS
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« Reply #28834 on: April 11, 2024, 04:07:16 PM »

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/30834
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UWS
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« Reply #28835 on: April 11, 2024, 05:38:32 PM »

Ukrainian F-16 pilots on the final stage of mastering

https://closetheskyoverukraine.com/latest-news/ukrainian-pilots-are-at-the-final-stage-of-mastering-f-16-aircraft
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #28836 on: April 11, 2024, 05:47:30 PM »

Give these people a medal or something. Incredible.
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Storr
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« Reply #28837 on: April 11, 2024, 08:52:56 PM »

"It's been a minute, but we have a new thread from "Karl," the Estonian military analyst, on the war in Ukraine. With @holger_r:

"Let’s start with the strategic view first. The U.S. has grown even more cautious and inept. Congress is exactly at the same place as the last time we spoke. For a brief moment, 1-2 weeks ago, it looked like they might be closer to a deal but today there is no certainty about it."

"The Republicans are still delaying. There’s no clarity about an aid package or a loan package or a combination of them. It’s the same as it was half a year ago. Ukraine has been losing territory on the eastern front unequivocally because of the stalled U.S. aid."

"On a positive side, the Czech ammunition initiative has brought considerable results and there is hope that first shipments will arrive on the frontline shortly. This is mainly artillery ammunition. Remarkably, the Czechs have managed to include aid from neutral or even Russia-friendly countries – India, Pakistan, even Serbia."

"The Macron initiative can also be regarded as positive from a strategic perspective. Estonia has historically been hesitant about the strategic autonomy concept and so far the French talk hasn’t included much military contribution. But insisting that France and other countries’ troops might be on Ukrainian territory even if only to train has really irritated Russia."

"If France really did it, the Baltic countries, probably Poland and Czechia, maybe the Nordic countries and the UK, would join in. This would be a nice coalition to train Ukrainian troops. It is not such a big step, actually, because, as has also been publicly stated, de facto the special ops are already there."

"France has always wanted to project a larger geopolitical role in relations to the U.S. than it has actually possessed. Now that the U.S. has left a vacuum, Macron sees an opportunity to take advantage of."

This new France initiative has been weakened by direct condemnation from the U.S. and German leaders though. If we add the U.S.’ views about Ukraine hitting Russia’s oil and military targets, the American position has become embarrassing -- especially considering that they can’t contribute anything to help Ukraine themselves."

"Does derives more from Biden’s team’s domestic considerations to keep the topic off of election discussions as rising oil prices wouldn’t not play well in elections? Is it a strategic fear or a combination, I can’t judge."

"On the frontlines Russian pressure is strong. Since we spoke last time Ukraine has lost Avdiivika, Russia has advanced north-west of Bakhmut, west of Avdiivka, at Pervomaisk and maybe also on the southern frontline. It has been on an operational level, but it is consistent and systematic."

"The reason is Ukraine’s lack of ammunition and weaponry to deter Russia’s planes. The Russian glide bombs just completely destroy Ukraine’s defense positions and there is no option but to retreat to new positions."

"Again, it is because of no U.S. aid package. The last U.S. package in March was $300 million. It was smaller than the aid that Denmark announced on the same day. Since then, nothing. It really makes itself felt on the frontlines."

"There is no reason to fear that Ukraine's defense might collapse. It is not so tragic. Ukrainian top officers and people close to them are more optimistic than the West is. They say Ukraine might lose some ground in the next months but there is no fear of Russia breaking through the defense."

"But Russia will continue to progress primarily on the eastern front. There are also signs of very strong Russian pressure on areas that Ukraine won back last summer by Robotyne and Verbove."

"Ukrainian society has finally managed to deal with the change of the commander-in-chief. There were fears that it would divide the society more than it did. Ukrainian people understand that this is not a reason to break up their own society and they need to fight regardless of which personality they like more."

"The frequent missile and drone attacks on Kharkiv and Odessa are a concern. These are large, strategically and symbolically important cities. Russia's goal is to make life as uncomfortable there as possible."

"This especially applies for Kharkiv where they haven’t been hitting anything else but residential areas over the last weeks. Kharkiv is also so close to the border that Ukraine's air defense can’t do much against the S-300 missiles. Occasionally they also pound the city with glide bombs and drones."

"Russia also continues to destabilize Moldova. They have repeatedly claimed that Ukraine attacked targets in Transnistria. They are flying the leaders of the Gagauzia region to Moscow. The only aim is destabilization of the country ahead of the presidential elections in autumn. Currently Russia lacks the ability to intervene in Moldova militarily."

"Ukraine's Rada will pass the new mobilization law any day now but the demobilization issues will be handled with separate acts. The troops who have been on the frontline for over 2 years have received some breaks but of course they want more. That said, the same situation is worse for Russian units."

"Russian bloggers wrote a few days ago that the new mobilization will be in May. Now they rephrased saying that it definitely will not be in May. The wording is important here. This suggests it can be in June or July."

"Considering their huge troop losses especially at Avdiivka they will need to announce a new mobilization wave. They can’t man their units gathering between 15-25k troops a month. I doubt they would be able to deploy more than that a month regardless of what they say themselves. Russia often knowingly 'manufactures' its success and tries to sell it to the West."

"Especially if Russia plans a large new offense, they will need mobilization. Right now they are not capable of attacking Kharkiv from two directions – from Kupyansk in the east and across the border from Belgorod – simultaneously as has been speculated."

"The so-called Russian volunteers operations in Belgorod, Kursk, Bryansk showed that Russia doesn’t have any serious units there. Otherwise the 'volunteers' wouldn’t have been able to go in and out for several weeks."

"Russia's offense on the Kupyansk direction has also clearly stalled. The activity was much higher there still 1-2 months ago."

"Regarding Russia’s next large offensive, the more realistic direction would be to continue from the Donetsk direction. Putin’s first goal was to fully conquer Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts. Russia has seen some success in 3 directions there: Avdiivika in the center, Bakhmut to the north and to the south in Pervomaisk."

"A logical next direction would be towards Chassiv Yar west of Bakhmut. It would open up directions towards Slovyansk and Kramatorsk which are the largest free cities in Donetsk oblast. Kramatorsk is also home to Ukraine’s eastern HQ."

"Ukraine's air defense is weaker and since they don't have F-16s, Russia can cause a lot of harm with the glide bombs. F-16s would bring at least a bit of relief to it because their operating radius is larger. When Russia can’t bring their bombers closer, their accuracy goes down. Already they have bombed occupied areas and Russia’s own territory." /END"




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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #28838 on: April 12, 2024, 07:38:54 AM »

So the TLDR version is "despite all the panic and hype, no mass Ukrainian collapse is imminent"?
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jaichind
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« Reply #28839 on: April 12, 2024, 07:46:46 AM »

https://www.businessinsider.com/russias-army-15-percent-larger-when-attacked-ukraine-us-general-2024-4

"Russia's army is now 15% bigger than when it invaded Ukraine, says US general"

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Storr
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« Reply #28840 on: April 12, 2024, 09:02:39 AM »

"A vehicle reportedly belonging to Vasily Prozorov, a former Ukrainian Security Service officer who said in 2019 that he had secretly collaborated with Russia for years, has exploded in Moscow."

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Open Source Intelligence
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« Reply #28841 on: April 12, 2024, 09:25:56 AM »

"A vehicle reportedly belonging to Vasily Prozorov, a former Ukrainian Security Service officer who said in 2019 that he had secretly collaborated with Russia for years, has exploded in Moscow."



The way extraterritorial assassination has almost become casual we're going to one day see someone's car explode in New York or Washington. Off the top of my head the U.S., Russia, China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Iran, Ukraine, India all have practiced it in recent memory.
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UWS
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« Reply #28842 on: April 12, 2024, 12:05:15 PM »

Greece could also provide Ukrainians in F 16s

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/30990
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Storr
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« Reply #28843 on: April 12, 2024, 01:16:57 PM »

"European capitals have rebuffed demands from Kyiv to send their air defence systems to Ukraine, after a week of relentless missile and drone bombardments from Russia that destroyed critical energy plants in the war-torn country.
Report w/@HenryJFoy @GuyChazan https://on.ft.com/3Jel2qG via @FT"

"Josep Borrell, the EU’s chief diplomat, said this week it was “inconceivable” that western countries could not provide seven extra Patriot batteries to Ukraine, given that they had about 100 in their arsenal they could spare.

Kyiv is lobbying for Patriot systems in Poland, Romania and Spain to be sent to Ukraine, two people familiar with the talks told the Financial Times.

“They only need seven,” one person said. “But it’s complicated.”

European capitals have said that they do not have plans to send more systems to Ukraine, arguing that they need to retain defence capabilities."

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UWS
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« Reply #28844 on: April 12, 2024, 01:23:52 PM »

"European capitals have rebuffed demands from Kyiv to send their air defence systems to Ukraine, after a week of relentless missile and drone bombardments from Russia that destroyed critical energy plants in the war-torn country.
Report w/@HenryJFoy @GuyChazan https://on.ft.com/3Jel2qG via @FT"

"Josep Borrell, the EU’s chief diplomat, said this week it was “inconceivable” that western countries could not provide seven extra Patriot batteries to Ukraine, given that they had about 100 in their arsenal they could spare.

Kyiv is lobbying for Patriot systems in Poland, Romania and Spain to be sent to Ukraine, two people familiar with the talks told the Financial Times.

“They only need seven,” one person said. “But it’s complicated.”

European capitals have said that they do not have plans to send more systems to Ukraine, arguing that they need to retain defence capabilities."



Ukraine needs these those weapons systems now. Some Eastern European countries such as Poland can rely to Germany to maintain defense capabilities through provisions from Germany to Poland
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UWS
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« Reply #28845 on: April 12, 2024, 01:36:33 PM »

So in this context of the War in Ukraine, Russia's army is 15 % higher than in February 2022. It must be an effect of the decree that Putin ratified that imposed a draft for the Russians aged 18 and older to Russian military and another proof that they are preparing a large-scale offensive for May or June. That's why we the United States of America and our allies need to accelerate provision of military equipment to Ukraine to help them counter such an offensive.
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #28846 on: April 12, 2024, 02:59:44 PM »
« Edited: April 12, 2024, 03:05:13 PM by GeneralMacArthur »

What does the population pyramid for Russia look like right now?

I'm a little disappointed we haven't seen more separatist fervor.  I would think people from, you know, Zabaykalsky, wouldn't be too thrilled about having their young working-age men drafted by Putin to go die on a battlefield 3,500 miles away in the name of protecting the ethnic eastern slavic peoples of Kherson from having to continue living under Ukrainian rule rather than Russian rule.
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Woody
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« Reply #28847 on: April 12, 2024, 03:30:58 PM »

What does the population pyramid for Russia look like right now?

I'm a little disappointed we haven't seen more separatist fervor.  I would think people from, you know, Zabaykalsky, wouldn't be too thrilled about having their young working-age men drafted by Putin to go die on a battlefield 3,500 miles away in the name of protecting the ethnic eastern slavic peoples of Kherson from having to continue living under Ukrainian rule rather than Russian rule.

According to the latest census, Zabaykalsky Krai is 90% ethnic Russian. It's literally more Russian than Moscow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabaykalsky_Krai#Demographics
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Hindsight was 2020
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« Reply #28848 on: April 12, 2024, 03:34:11 PM »

What does the population pyramid for Russia look like right now?

I'm a little disappointed we haven't seen more separatist fervor.  I would think people from, you know, Zabaykalsky, wouldn't be too thrilled about having their young working-age men drafted by Putin to go die on a battlefield 3,500 miles away in the name of protecting the ethnic eastern slavic peoples of Kherson from having to continue living under Ukrainian rule rather than Russian rule.
Tbh something I got completely wrong in the beginning of the war was the tolerance level for high casualties the Russian population wouldn’t have. After being able to interact with actual Ukrainians on the ground and getting more local perspectives it’s seems fair to Russian population is closer to Nazi German levels complicit in this atrocity and Putin’s hatred of the Ukrainian ethnic identity and resentments over the loss of the Soviet empire is very widespread amongst the population
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« Reply #28849 on: April 12, 2024, 07:56:48 PM »

The fact Russia is 81% ethnic Russian, which is a higher share than the proportion of England that is ethnic English for example gives it an internal unity that the USSR which was only 51% ethnic Russian lacked. Russia today for the first time in many centuries is basically a homogenous nation with over 80% of the population belonging to a single ethnic group, that gives it a level of stability that was lacking in the past.

As for Russian tolerance of casualties, unlike Vietnam or Afghanistan, Russia unlike the US or USSR is not trying to prop up a puppet regime in a foreign land with a different culture. Russia is fighting as many Russians see it to take back the land and cities where Russian civilisation began 1200 years ago like Kiev, if you believe you are fighting to take back the heartland of your civilisation, any level of losses is acceptable. 
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