DC Unrest Megathread

[Santander]

You know, I wonder if all the Cubans and others in Florida who voted for Trump because they thought BIDEN would somehow be the one to turn the US into a banana republic are regretting it now.

Many of them are descended from the kinds of people who were orchestrating right-wing coups in their own country, so...

I expected better from you Antonio...

[Non Swing Voter]

You know, I wonder if all the Cubans and others in Florida who voted for Trump because they thought BIDEN would somehow be the one to turn the US into a banana republic are regretting it now.

Probably.  To the extent Trump is now losing support, the most likely areas are the ones that went for Hillary the first time.  I'd expect that includes Miami.

[AZDem]

https://twitter.com/EoinHiggins_/status/1348291105180282882

very moderate and nice! glad to see one of the good ones around

OMG! Take a stand or GTFO! What a pussy. Is he term limited in 2022?

Warren better watch out in 2024! Sounds like he might give her a real challenge.

[Bojack Horseman]

They were reporting that urine and feces was strewn throughout the capitol. Talk about some ironic symbolism for what the cult leader they worship has spent the last four years doing.

[Badger]

You know, I wonder if all the Cubans and others in Florida who voted for Trump because they thought BIDEN would somehow be the one to turn the US into a banana republic are regretting it now.

Many of them are descended from the kinds of people who were orchestrating right-wing coups in their own country, so...

I expected better from you Antonio...

A significant portion of conservative Cubans still consider General Batista as the good old days, so...

[Virginiá]

Going through the social media of rightwingers (including family and community members), none of these people have learned their lessons. They are absolutely hysterical right now, believing a dictatorship of The Left is imminent and we'll be a socialist/communist/Nazi country within a week and a half. A guy who previously was a member of my local Democratic Party (i'm not friends with him, but he popped up in the comments of a mutual friend) and is a police officer has been posting almost nonstop for the past 24 hours the most insane right-wing stuff about how the downfall of America is imminent and we're going to become a totalitarian state.

These people are in full-on psycho mode. They are 100% convinced that the End Times are here or whatever and there is a massive conspiracy against them happening right now. The violence definitely isn't over. I'm genuinely worried about what will happen next week.

What is so profoundly irritating about this is that they are completely at fault for causing this in the first place. They cheered on as Donald Trump exhausted every single avenue available to him to overturn a free and fair election he decidedly lost. They all provided justification after justification for his actions despite him providing zero evidence to back up his claims. And this all culminated in them literally storming the Capitol to enact the result they wanted by force after they failed to achieve it by democratic means.

I live in a pretty conservative area and I've heard a few similarly apocalyptic visions of the future, and a big part of me wishes they would just have some sort of epiphany and see that the people that actually won the election are looking at them and their behavior and thinking similar things. I mean, we had no idea what that mob was trying to do, or if Trump has plans to keep doing his thing. When you storm the seat of government when they are certifying the results, in an era where their party has increasingly distanced itself from democracy (quite explicitly in some cases), people should be forgiven if they get a strong impression that the free society they knew is on the verge of falling apart. So does it not make sense that this society is going to recoil and react strongly against the people they believe to be agitating for the violent overthrow of a presidential election?

And yet, here we are, with conservatives once again seemingly unable to see this through any other lens other than them being the persecuted ones, even as they are beating the crap out of capitol police as they force their way inside, and stirring up violent mobs on their "free speech" fever swamp websites.

[AZDem]

You know, I wonder if all the Cubans and others in Florida who voted for Trump because they thought BIDEN would somehow be the one to turn the US into a banana republic are regretting it now.

Who cares about them? If they were stupid enough to fall for his B.S., then too bad.
I have no f***s to give to those losers.

[Antonio the Sixth]

You know, I wonder if all the Cubans and others in Florida who voted for Trump because they thought BIDEN would somehow be the one to turn the US into a banana republic are regretting it now.

Many of them are descended from the kinds of people who were orchestrating right-wing coups in their own country, so...

I expected better from you Antonio...

I know it's a huge generalization, of course, but it does need to be said. The "poor, scared victims of communism who don't know any better" discourse can only take you so far. Some of these people are all too familiar with far-right paramilitary tactics and all too happy to condone them when it seems expedient.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Going through the social media of rightwingers (including family and community members), none of these people have learned their lessons. They are absolutely hysterical right now, believing a dictatorship of The Left is imminent and we'll be a socialist/communist/Nazi country within a week and a half. A guy who previously was a member of my local Democratic Party (i'm not friends with him, but he popped up in the comments of a mutual friend) and is a police officer has been posting almost nonstop for the past 24 hours the most insane right-wing stuff about how the downfall of America is imminent and we're going to become a totalitarian state.

These people are in full-on psycho mode. They are 100% convinced that the End Times are here or whatever and there is a massive conspiracy against them happening right now. The violence definitely isn't over. I'm genuinely worried about what will happen next week.

I completely believe you, but... what is wrong with these people? Do they not remember 2009, when a Barack Obama, (a "communist Muslim") became President with a Democratic trifecta to take all their guns, and the only major legislative change was... a nationwide Cato Institute health care plan pioneered by Mitt Romney and a some foreign interventions?

[Cashew]

Trump Terrorists are being added to the no-fly list:

https://twitter.com/RayRedacted/status/1348388601118273537?s=20

It’s amazing that they genuinely seemed to think there would be no consequences.


Then again

..when you catch somebody in a fraud your allowed to go by very different rules

From Trump’s call to arms.

So maybe not surprising?

They believe they did nothing wrong.

But they supposedly believe they are oppressed. If they truly believed they were living in a totalitarian dystopia they would be humble and in hiding rather than prancing aground like they own the country.

[Non Swing Voter]

Wasn't there a big uproar about how Trump was installing his loyalists in the DOD and Pentagon a few weeks ago?  Has anyone investigated if they had some involvement in the government standing down while these terrorists invaded the capitol?

[Badger]

I'm going to say this now. I believe this strongly enough and wanted to be repeated enough that I'm seriously considering making it my Sig.

If after voting for Trump, you even now can't say that you should have voted for Biden, or hell, can't acknowledge you should have voted for Clinton 4 years ago , then you have learned nothing whatsoever, and are a Republican first, but American second.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Wasn't there a big uproar about how Trump was installing his loyalists in the DOD and Pentagon a few weeks ago?  Has anyone investigated if they had some involvement in the government standing down while these terrorists invaded the capitol?

Yes, yes there was.

[It’s so Joever]

I'm going to say this now. I believe this strongly enough and wanted to be repeated enough that I'm seriously considering making it my Sig.

If after voting for Trump, you even now can't say that you should have voted for Biden, or hell, can't acknowledge you should have voted for Clinton 4 years ago , then you have learned nothing whatsoever, and are a Republican first, but American second.

I disagree with that last part.




I don’t think current Trump supporters are Americans at all.

[cg41386]

At this point, why does it matter if the GOP is coddling or not coddling Trump?  They have no power anymore.  Thanks Ossoff.

The GOP has more actionable and durable power in the US and has for some time. They control the federal judiciary and have a comfortable majority on SCOTUS, the country's real policy-making engine (hence why they care so much about it), and total control in nearly a majority of states. Probably will have a lot more post-2022. And the entire election system is biased in favor of their party by so much that they don't even need majority support to cling to power.

The amount of power they have is scary given the direction they've been heading in the past 10 years. And quite frankly, the Democratic Party as it exists right now is ill-equipped to fight back, if it even had the Congressional majorities they would need to do so. That's the problem of being the party of good government. They aren't willing to do what it takes to push back against a party whose primary reason for existing right now is to consolidate as much power in their hands by almost any means necessary. If they were, the filibuster would be gone Jan 21st and we'd be looking at a larger SCOTUS, several new states, HR1 & a new VRA, just to start. Instead, we'd be very lucky to see to DC statehood, although I'm happy it's at least a theoretical option. It wasn't before January. It's something, I guess.

I don't really share your pessimism on some of this before Biden is even sworn in. Especially after this past four years.

[Badger]

At this point, why does it matter if the GOP is coddling or not coddling Trump?  They have no power anymore.  Thanks Ossoff.

The GOP has more actionable and durable power in the US and has for some time. They control the federal judiciary and have a comfortable majority on SCOTUS, the country's real policy-making engine (hence why they care so much about it), and total control in nearly a majority of states. Probably will have a lot more post-2022. And the entire election system is biased in favor of their party by so much that they don't even need majority support to cling to power.

The amount of power they have is scary given the direction they've been heading in the past 10 years. And quite frankly, the Democratic Party as it exists right now is ill-equipped to fight back, if it even had the Congressional majorities they would need to do so. That's the problem of being the party of good government. They aren't willing to do what it takes to push back against a party whose primary reason for existing right now is to consolidate as much power in their hands by almost any means necessary. If they were, the filibuster would be gone Jan 21st and we'd be looking at a larger SCOTUS, several new states, HR1 & a new VRA, just to start. Instead, we'd be very lucky to see to DC statehood, although I'm happy it's at least a theoretical option. It wasn't before January. It's something, I guess.

I don't really share your pessimism on some of this before Biden is even sworn in. Especially after this past four years.

I do.

[cg41386]

At this point, why does it matter if the GOP is coddling or not coddling Trump?  They have no power anymore.  Thanks Ossoff.

The GOP has more actionable and durable power in the US and has for some time. They control the federal judiciary and have a comfortable majority on SCOTUS, the country's real policy-making engine (hence why they care so much about it), and total control in nearly a majority of states. Probably will have a lot more post-2022. And the entire election system is biased in favor of their party by so much that they don't even need majority support to cling to power.

The amount of power they have is scary given the direction they've been heading in the past 10 years. And quite frankly, the Democratic Party as it exists right now is ill-equipped to fight back, if it even had the Congressional majorities they would need to do so. That's the problem of being the party of good government. They aren't willing to do what it takes to push back against a party whose primary reason for existing right now is to consolidate as much power in their hands by almost any means necessary. If they were, the filibuster would be gone Jan 21st and we'd be looking at a larger SCOTUS, several new states, HR1 & a new VRA, just to start. Instead, we'd be very lucky to see to DC statehood, although I'm happy it's at least a theoretical option. It wasn't before January. It's something, I guess.

I don't really share your pessimism on some of this before Biden is even sworn in. Especially after this past four years.

I do.

Cool, if that's how you want to operate, go for it. I won't.

[Badger]

At this point, why does it matter if the GOP is coddling or not coddling Trump?  They have no power anymore.  Thanks Ossoff.

The GOP has more actionable and durable power in the US and has for some time. They control the federal judiciary and have a comfortable majority on SCOTUS, the country's real policy-making engine (hence why they care so much about it), and total control in nearly a majority of states. Probably will have a lot more post-2022. And the entire election system is biased in favor of their party by so much that they don't even need majority support to cling to power.

The amount of power they have is scary given the direction they've been heading in the past 10 years. And quite frankly, the Democratic Party as it exists right now is ill-equipped to fight back, if it even had the Congressional majorities they would need to do so. That's the problem of being the party of good government. They aren't willing to do what it takes to push back against a party whose primary reason for existing right now is to consolidate as much power in their hands by almost any means necessary. If they were, the filibuster would be gone Jan 21st and we'd be looking at a larger SCOTUS, several new states, HR1 & a new VRA, just to start. Instead, we'd be very lucky to see to DC statehood, although I'm happy it's at least a theoretical option. It wasn't before January. It's something, I guess.

I don't really share your pessimism on some of this before Biden is even sworn in. Especially after this past four years.

I do.

Cool, if that's how you want to operate, go for it. I won't.

I honestly don't. And I hope you are proven right and I am proven wrong. However, I think I'm being painfully and sadly realistic rather than cynical.

But I agree we absolutely have to fight for every inch on every issue. Lord knows the treason forgiveness party will.

[Yoda]

I asked a friend of mine who’s a police officer why some of these officers didn’t fire when clearly had justified shoots, and his reply was:
My service weapon has 12 round, and I have two spare mags. 36 rounds. In some of these cases, there was one or two officers running away from dozens of these guys. Hopefully you have 100% accuracy but you’re probably outnumbered and will be out of bullets quickly. If you get overpowered you’re gonna get killed with your own gun too.

I mean, I get that, it’s clear the officers were extremely outnumbered, but still. I figure after bodies are going down, some would have fled.

Just want to add that I read earlier ( I believe on Political Wire) that an officer of the Capitol Police ordered that deadly force was not to be used when the rioters started to breach the building. Perhaps the reasoning you relayed above from your friend is why, but I would really like to find out for sure. Seems likely to me that some calculated shots could have scared off the rest of the mob from continuing their assault. Casualties (even deaths) of a few terrorists seems wholly acceptable to me in order to protect the VP, Capitol Police, members of Congress and their staffs. We saw from the video where that one lady terrorist from California was shot climbing through the window that it put a complete stop to the rest of the mob from trying to break down the doors. They stopped REAL quick once they realized they could die, that there were real consequences to continuing.

[Yoda]

They were reporting that urine and feces was strewn throughout the capitol. Talk about some ironic symbolism for what the cult leader they worship has spent the last four years doing.

I have a very racist, ignorant, MAGA (repetitive, I know) brother who delights in calling black people "monkeys", as the n-word isn't quite degrading enough for him.

Now we know the rioters were literally spreading their feces around the Capitol.

I will with no small amount of pleasure be referring to the trump rioters as monkeys (loudly) from this day forward, particularly in his presence (which admittedly is not very often b/c he's insufferable). Literally can't wait for the pandemic to be over so we can have a large family gathering again.

[jimrtex]

There are only two things I am willing to hear from Trump supporters right now.

1) "I am sorry. My vote aided and abetted an attempt at a fascist coup in the United States. I will now live the rest of my life attempting to atone for what I have done."

2) "I am clearly a terrible judge of character. Democrats, please educate me. How did you know the warning signs of Trump's narcissistic, dictatorial personality before I did? Before I ever cast another vote, I should learn how to watch for these things."

Anything else is either apologism, whataboutism, or genuine fascism.

I am sorry about not believing the Moscow prostitute pee stories. Those who manufactured them meant well even if they weren't true.

[Former President tack50]

Trespassing and disorderly conduct? Where are the real charges? He didn't find the taser and restraints in some closet in the Capitol - he brought them with him all the way from Tennessee to take prisoners in the Capitol.

Other than illegal gun ownership and maybe "attempted kidnapping" (is that a real crime definition?) what other crimes could you charge them with?

Like I've repeatedly said, trespassing (and I suppose disorderly conduct) are the only crimes where the people who got into the capitol are 99%+ likely to be convicted; but any other crimes have a very low chance of success.

Collective punishment I must imagine would be unconstitutional. And sedition is not generally a crime where "foot soldiers" get charged.

[BlueSwan]

They were reporting that urine and feces was strewn throughout the capitol. Talk about some ironic symbolism for what the cult leader they worship has spent the last four years doing.

I have a very racist, ignorant, MAGA (repetitive, I know) brother who delights in calling black people "monkeys", as the n-word isn't quite degrading enough for him.

Now we know the rioters were literally spreading their feces around the Capitol.

I will with no small amount of pleasure be referring to the trump rioters as monkeys (loudly) from this day forward, particularly in his presence (which admittedly is not very often b/c he's insufferable). Literally can't wait for the pandemic to be over so we can have a large family gathering again.

I saw someone online refer to the MAGA cult as Death Eaters. I liked that. Seemed very fitting. We should all call them that.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Trespassing and disorderly conduct? Where are the real charges? He didn't find the taser and restraints in some closet in the Capitol - he brought them with him all the way from Tennessee to take prisoners in the Capitol.

Other than illegal gun ownership and maybe "attempted kidnapping" (is that a real crime definition?) what other crimes could you charge them with?

Like I've repeatedly said, trespassing (and I suppose disorderly conduct) are the only crimes where the people who got into the capitol are 99%+ likely to be convicted; but any other crimes have a very low chance of success.

Collective punishment I must imagine would be unconstitutional. And sedition is not generally a crime where "foot soldiers" get charged.

I can't believe I have to keep posting this

Seditious Conspiracy
US Code 2384

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

Rioting

(a) Whoever travels in interstate or foreign commerce or uses any facility of interstate or foreign commerce, including, but not limited to, the mail, telegraph, telephone, radio, or television, with intent—
(1) to incite a riot; or
(2) to organize, promote, encourage, participate in, or carry on a riot; or
(3) to commit any act of violence in furtherance of a riot; or
(4) to aid or abet any person in inciting or participating in or carrying on a riot or committing any act of violence in furtherance of a riot;
and who either during the course of any such travel or use or thereafter performs or attempts to perform any other overt act for any purpose specified in subparagraph (A), (B), (C), or (D) of this paragraph— [1]
Shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

a) As used in this chapter, the term “riot” means a public disturbance involving (1) an act or acts of violence by one or more persons part of an assemblage of three or more persons, which act or acts shall constitute a clear and present danger of, or shall result in, damage or injury to the property of any other person or to the person of any other individual or (2) a threat or threats of the commission of an act or acts of violence by one or more persons part of an assemblage of three or more persons having, individually or collectively, the ability of immediate execution of such threat or threats, where the performance of the threatened act or acts of violence would constitute a clear and present danger of, or would result in, damage or injury to the property of any other person or to the person of any other individual.

Also, for everyone in that crowd trying to break into the doorway where the officer was beat to death, Felony Murder. That's actually a capital offense, given that the victim was a police officer in the course of his duties, but I have to think they only seek life.

[FrancoAgo]

I asked a friend of mine who’s a police officer why some of these officers didn’t fire when clearly had justified shoots, and his reply was:
My service weapon has 12 round, and I have two spare mags. 36 rounds. In some of these cases, there was one or two officers running away from dozens of these guys. Hopefully you have 100% accuracy but you’re probably outnumbered and will be out of bullets quickly. If you get overpowered you’re gonna get killed with your own gun too.

I mean, I get that, it’s clear the officers were extremely outnumbered, but still. I figure after bodies are going down, some would have fled.

After you start to fire i suppose that most of MOB flee o go to cover, this would work better if firing came from more people; the old Beretta 92 had 15 round, the Glock 17 has 17 round and the Glock 19 again 15.