DC Unrest Megathread

[Yoda]

How the f#ck are the Capitol Police letting this happen?!?

Seriously? The off-duty police are probably part of the mob. They're simply letting their buddies in.

[Yoda]

If this is just a bunch of random guys from across the country imagine an actual coup attempt.

That, and I'm also thinking about hostile foreign governments watching this right now. Russia and China must think (and they're probably right) that they could send half a dozen disguised special forces who could rush the Capital, take out every one of our rent-a-cop idiot security officers in minutes, and execute every single member of Congress in short order while the Pentagon dithered about whether or not to send in the f@#$%^& National Guard.

[Yoda]

Liberals would do well to reflect on this quote by Martin Luther King, there is a lot of truth to it with regard to how many Americans feel.

A riot is the language of the unheard - Martin Luther King

If there is one thing on God's green Earth that a trump supporter is not, it's unheard. You can't open a paper without reading yet another profile of one of their diners in the middle of nowhere. They are not an oppressed minority like African Americans in the civil rights era, they are a coddled, romanticized minority that uses violence and corruption to achieve their political goals and to stay in power despite almost always receiving less votes than the majority party.

Don't twist Dr. King's words to defend racists, neo-nazis and murderers. It's disgusting.

[Yoda]

Liberals would do well to reflect on this quote by Martin Luther King, there is a lot of truth to it with regard to how many Americans feel.

A riot is the language of the unheard - Martin Luther King

If there is one thing on God's green Earth that a trump supporter is not, it's unheard. You can't open a paper without reading yet another profile of one of their diners in the middle of nowhere. They are not an oppressed minority like African Americans in the civil rights era, they are a coddled, romanticized minority that uses violence and corruption to achieve their political goals and to stay in power despite almost always receiving less votes than the majority party.

Don't twist Dr. King's words to defend racists, neo-nazis and murderers. It's disgusting.

All the major institutions, corporations, academia, media, the entertainment industry are opposed to Trump supporters who are ridiculed and often lose their jobs for the views, they are an oppressed group, they are oppressed by all of the major institutions and their voices are not listened to by any major institution in America except for now the WH.

Lol are you high on space drugs? Corporate America and the media is overwhelmingly conservative. Conservatives have no less than three nationwide TV news networks dedicated solely to disseminating their propaganda, and countless more local stations owned by Sinclair and rag magazines.

[Yoda]

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1348284578037960706

God, I sincerey hope this means they know who murdered Brian Sicknick. I was really, really worried that there would turn out to be no photos or videos identifying the terrorists who murdered him and it was literally making me seethe with rage.

[Yoda]

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1348284578037960706

Thank God. And I don't believe that is a hyperbolic statement whatsoever. Mass prosecution's of these people who almost universally escaped arrest on that day is a crucial part of History establishing the wrongness of this traitorous violent insurrection.

Now if they'll just go after the ringleader....

They have a very good defense. They were instructed to do so by the President of the United States. They believed they were doing the right thing.

Not a good defense. Only thing that will do is further implicate trump and strengthen the case against him.

[Yoda]

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1348284578037960706

Thank God. And I don't believe that is a hyperbolic statement whatsoever. Mass prosecution's of these people who almost universally escaped arrest on that day is a crucial part of History establishing the wrongness of this traitorous violent insurrection.

Now if they'll just go after the ringleader....

They have a very good defense. They were instructed to do so by the President of the United States. They believed they were doing the right thing.

Not a good defense. Only thing that will do is further implicate trump and strengthen the case against him.

It is a good defense, because culpability depends on your perception of right and wrong.

IANAL, but I think this would only work if you were to plead not guilty by reason of insanity.

Breaking and entering a federal building with the intent to "Hang Mike Pence" and kill members of Congress is pretty universally considered to be "wrong". But good luck to your beloved terrorist friends trying to argue otherwise in court.

[Yoda]

I asked a friend of mine who’s a police officer why some of these officers didn’t fire when clearly had justified shoots, and his reply was:
My service weapon has 12 round, and I have two spare mags. 36 rounds. In some of these cases, there was one or two officers running away from dozens of these guys. Hopefully you have 100% accuracy but you’re probably outnumbered and will be out of bullets quickly. If you get overpowered you’re gonna get killed with your own gun too.

I mean, I get that, it’s clear the officers were extremely outnumbered, but still. I figure after bodies are going down, some would have fled.

Just want to add that I read earlier ( I believe on Political Wire) that an officer of the Capitol Police ordered that deadly force was not to be used when the rioters started to breach the building. Perhaps the reasoning you relayed above from your friend is why, but I would really like to find out for sure. Seems likely to me that some calculated shots could have scared off the rest of the mob from continuing their assault. Casualties (even deaths) of a few terrorists seems wholly acceptable to me in order to protect the VP, Capitol Police, members of Congress and their staffs. We saw from the video where that one lady terrorist from California was shot climbing through the window that it put a complete stop to the rest of the mob from trying to break down the doors. They stopped REAL quick once they realized they could die, that there were real consequences to continuing.

[Yoda]

They were reporting that urine and feces was strewn throughout the capitol. Talk about some ironic symbolism for what the cult leader they worship has spent the last four years doing.

I have a very racist, ignorant, MAGA (repetitive, I know) brother who delights in calling black people "monkeys", as the n-word isn't quite degrading enough for him.

Now we know the rioters were literally spreading their feces around the Capitol.

I will with no small amount of pleasure be referring to the trump rioters as monkeys (loudly) from this day forward, particularly in his presence (which admittedly is not very often b/c he's insufferable). Literally can't wait for the pandemic to be over so we can have a large family gathering again.

[Yoda]

https://twitter.com/NaphiSoc/status/1348741118545039365

Thank GOD. I was so worried this guy was not going to be caught. I hope he rots in prison for a long, long time.

[Yoda]

https://twitter.com/NaphiSoc/status/1348741118545039365

Thank GOD. I was so worried this guy was not going to be caught. I hope he rots in prison for a long, long time.

They (We) don't have him yet.
But with a good image like that, something tells me it will be soon.

Right, that's what I'm saying. A part of me is still terrified that trump issues a blanket pardon to all of the insurrectionists, though.

[Yoda]

So Senate conviction requires 17 Republicans. Is that possible?

Obvious ones:
Romney
Collins
Murkowski
Sasse
Toomey

I guess you could compile another 12 from old dinosaurs who probably won't run again...but are there enough?

McConnell
Grassley
Shelby
Inhofe
Risch
Blunt

Now we're to people younger than Chuck Schumer...and at 11. I guess Burr has said he's not running again so that's 12.

Has Collins said anything about voting to convict?

[Yoda]

https://twitter.com/ryanobles/status/1349154850844639234?s=20

Attention wh#$%

[Yoda]

Members of Congress should be exempt from security checks.

Why?

This shouldn't require any explanation.

Not after the intelligence reports that the insurrectionists had inside help.  

- Members of Congress are allowed to be armed in the Capitol, and have access to everything, making any security search completely irrelevant

No, they are'nt

[Yoda]

https://twitter.com/USA_Polling/status/1349450495430184960

Presumably, folks on the left are split between "no" and "unsure" because many of typical folks have no idea who or what "antifa" is since, well, it's not really a thing except in the right wing media.

You also have to assume that the vast majority of the 37% who answered "yes" are lying. They know damn well Antifa wasn't involved, but say so simply in an attempt to take all of the rightful blame off trump/republicans. I don't know how many times we have to see crazy poll results like this to internalize the fact that republican/conservatives bring nothing to the table but bad faith, lies and disingenuous "beliefs".

[Yoda]

I don't understand why members of the House need to be fined for refusing to walk through metal detectors.

Just deny entry.  Can they walk onto a plane without going thru one?

They are lawfully elected members of a national legislature, not customers conducting a transaction.

It also seems like a petty tyranny, which is why I asked about it. What conceivable safety benefit is there to scanning the bodies of every member?

Sounds to me like a lot of republican politicians as well as posters on this forum have never held a real job before. Any American who works at a large plant, factory, shipping or sorting facility, warehouse, etc has to go through a metal detector, among other measures. I got through a metal detector and I'm scanned for a temperature check automatically as I scan my ID badge every day. I do realize that these are the kinds of working/middle class jobs that most republican politicians would never come into contact with at any point in their privileged, coddled lives, so I guess it's understandable.

[Yoda]

I don't understand why members of the House need to be fined for refusing to walk through metal detectors.

Just deny entry.  Can they walk onto a plane without going thru one?

They are lawfully elected members of a national legislature, not customers conducting a transaction.

It also seems like a petty tyranny, which is why I asked about it. What conceivable safety benefit is there to scanning the bodies of every member?

Sounds to me like a lot of republican politicians as well as posters on this forum have never held a real job before. Any American who works at a large plant, factory, shipping or sorting facility, warehouse, etc has to go through a metal detector, among other measures. I got through a metal detector and I'm scanned for a temperature check automatically as I scan my ID badge every day. I do realize that these are the kinds of working/middle class jobs that most republican politicians would never come into contact with at any point in their privileged, coddled lives, so I guess it's understandable.

Members of Congress are not employees. They are the reason the Capitol buildings, and Capitol security, exist. It is a ridiculous waste of time, and pure petulance by Pelosi, to demand members go through a metal detector. Why not strip search them? A plastic explosive wouldn't set off a metal detector...

I keep seeing you make this....uh.....let's call it a 'claim', and it's gotten no less ridiculous/incorrect no matter how many times you repeat it.

They are paid by the federal government. They receive a pension from the federal government. They receive health insurance from the federal government. The fact that they are elected does not mean they are not employees. They work for their constituents; they are paid by their constituents' taxes. On the "employment history" section of their resumes when they leave Congress I bet you they list their time as lawmakers. If you do "work", and you are "paid by someone else", you're an employee. Yours is an asinine line of argument, and repeating it incessantly does not make it true.

[Yoda]

I don't understand why members of the House need to be fined for refusing to walk through metal detectors.

Just deny entry.  Can they walk onto a plane without going thru one?

They are lawfully elected members of a national legislature, not customers conducting a transaction.

It also seems like a petty tyranny, which is why I asked about it. What conceivable safety benefit is there to scanning the bodies of every member?

Sounds to me like a lot of republican politicians as well as posters on this forum have never held a real job before. Any American who works at a large plant, factory, shipping or sorting facility, warehouse, etc has to go through a metal detector, among other measures. I got through a metal detector and I'm scanned for a temperature check automatically as I scan my ID badge every day. I do realize that these are the kinds of working/middle class jobs that most republican politicians would never come into contact with at any point in their privileged, coddled lives, so I guess it's understandable.

Members of Congress are not employees. They are the reason the Capitol buildings, and Capitol security, exist. It is a ridiculous waste of time, and pure petulance by Pelosi, to demand members go through a metal detector. Why not strip search them? A plastic explosive wouldn't set off a metal detector...

I keep seeing you make this....uh.....let's call it a 'claim', and it's gotten no less ridiculous/incorrect no matter how many times you repeat it.

They are paid by the federal government. They receive a pension from the federal government. They receive health insurance from the federal government. The fact that they are elected does not mean they are not employees. They work for their constituents; they are paid by their constituents' taxes. On the "employment history" section of their resumes when they leave Congress I bet you they list their time as lawmakers. If you do "work", and you are "paid by someone else", you're an employee. Yours is an asinine line of argument, and repeating it incessantly does not make it true.

I don't see what receiving a paycheck from the federal government has to do with their standing. Are you disputing that the Capitol buildings solely exist for members of Congress to conduct their business? When I say members of Congress are not employees, it means that they don't work for Congress, they are Congress. The individual is merely a temporary officeholder, and the collective offices they hold are a self-governing branch of government. As Speaker, Nancy Pelosi has the power to make certain rules, but it is reasonable to expect the rules to be rational (well, not really, since we're talking about politicians here, but still). The House floor must have security, but that is to protect members from non-members, not each other.

Are you disputing that the building I and my coworkers work in exists solely for us to conduct our work?

Does that mean that we can dictate to our employer that we don't want to go through metal detectors, get temperature checks, or wear masks?

Also, "their" business? "Their"?

You seem to have a deep, fundamental misunderstanding of who lawmakers are sent to Washington, DC to serve. They are not sent there to serve themselves, they are sent there to serve the country. They are there to do "our" business. In our building. That our tax dollars pay for. They don't own, pay for, or care for it. They are subject to rules of conduct and safety just as anyone else is.

I didn't think it was possible, but your argument has grown even more nonsensical.

[Yoda]

I don't understand why members of the House need to be fined for refusing to walk through metal detectors.

Just deny entry.  Can they walk onto a plane without going thru one?

They are lawfully elected members of a national legislature, not customers conducting a transaction.

It also seems like a petty tyranny, which is why I asked about it. What conceivable safety benefit is there to scanning the bodies of every member?

Sounds to me like a lot of republican politicians as well as posters on this forum have never held a real job before. Any American who works at a large plant, factory, shipping or sorting facility, warehouse, etc has to go through a metal detector, among other measures. I got through a metal detector and I'm scanned for a temperature check automatically as I scan my ID badge every day. I do realize that these are the kinds of working/middle class jobs that most republican politicians would never come into contact with at any point in their privileged, coddled lives, so I guess it's understandable.

1. It's not a job! They are elected officials. That's a fundamentally different relationship. Are you capable of understanding that, or have we reduced all of humanity to employers, employees, and customers?

1. This argument was garbage when Santander made it and it's still garbage when you repeat it. Lawmaker is an occupation, however long it is held, the same way dishwasher is an occupation. I don't care if that occupation is classified as employee, independent contractor, or whatever. It comes with an array of special privileges and perks, to be sure, but none of these include lawmakers existing in some legal gray area where they are exempt from security rules that every other member of society must follow. And in the aftermath of last Wednesday? My God these people need to get a grip on reality.

2. You pass through security because you're a lawyer. It doesn't mean that you're any more in touch with the People than anyone else. Lots of white collar people have jobs that involve this, and lots of blue collar people never go near a metal detector. My wife has a floor job at a plant and she does not.

lol wut?

3. It's always very telling when people throw out claims about privilige that have no grounding in the conversation taking place. We've created this neat rhetorical trick that allows you to acknowledge that what you're defending is bad, but that the people getting it deserve it for some ill-defined reason related to unverifiable claims about "structures" or other vague abstractions.

If you can't see how incredibly entitled the republican members of Congress in question are in this case when they bristle indignantly at things a lot of the rest of us must do every day, I honestly don't know what to tell you. It absolutely reeks of privilege to me personally. I guess I view it as being incredibly out of touch and elitist in this case, whereas you see it as their right as Members of some Super Duper Above the Rules of Everyday Life Club. Fair enough.

[Yoda]

Lawmaker is an occupation, however long it is held, the same way dishwasher is an occupation. I don't care if that occupation is classified as employee, independent contractor, or whatever. It comes with an array of special privileges and perks, to be sure, but none of these include lawmakers existing in some legal gray area where they are exempt from security rules that every other member of society must follow.

lolwut?

The bolded is just patently untrue.  Members of Congress enjoy multiple, Constitutional privileges related to their free movement and immunity from civil/criminal action resulting from their role as legislators. 

Maybe you should try, I dunno, reading something sometime?  or taking a high school government class?

I can't believe I was just told to read something, or take a high school government class by a  trump supporter. For the record, AP Government here, and I got a 4 on the test and college credit, sweetheart. Just like I did for AP Psychology and AP Euro History.

May I suggest you take a reading comprehension class? You either completely missed the argument I was making, or you chose to ignore it to attack a straw man.

[Yoda]

A rioter from Texas threatened to shoot his children if they told the FBI that he participated in the riots at the Capitol.

A Texas man with ties to a right-wing extremist group threatened to shoot his children if they told the FBI he traveled to Washington to storm the Capitol with other President Trump supporters, according to court documents.

Guy Reffitt threatened his daughter and son while arguing with them about his role in the Capitol siege, his wife told an FBI agent, according to the court papers filed in Washington, DC.

“If you turn me in, you’re a traitor and you know what happens to traitors … traitors get shot,” Reffitt allegedly said to his kids.

I give you the pro-life, pro-family party, ladies and gents.

[Yoda]

Can I just randomly say how absurdly happy and relieved I am that not a single one of the Jan. 6th terrorists got pardoned? I know trump didn't do it b/c he was advised that it would worsen his legal situation but my GOD it makes me happy to know that eventually the hammer is going to come down on the people who tried to violently overturn a free and fair election. I have NO sympathy for those who use violence and threats to achieve a political goal. I only hope it leads to a wider reckoning for the boogaloos/proud boys and other right wing terrorist groups that planned it.

[Yoda]

That feeling when you check the FBI’s website and a new ARRESTED label has been slapped on another rioter’s photo.

NUT....every single time.

[Yoda]

https://twitter.com/CarolLeonnig/status/1352066474492497921

At the very least, it's a good reason for President Biden to fire him for cause.

[Yoda]

How does a Navy Seal trained on disinformation warfare fall for this?

Because "super-duper high-speed Navy SEAL trained in disinformation warfare"

translated into English:

some dude on a 6-month detail putting together powerpoint presentations for intel officers.

This. I guarantee the CIA officers he worked with were doing all of the real vetting of intelligence and he was more or less....there. Someone with this level of partisanship and disassociation from reality could never execute such a gig effectively on his own.