Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[pppolitics]

"How could these cowards refuse to fight and die in the trenches for their homeland?" I ask from behind my computer screen

Give me liberty or give me death!

Or maybe you have gotten too comfortable and think that freedom comes for free.

[Cassandra]

"How could these cowards refuse to fight and die in the trenches for their homeland?" I ask from behind my computer screen

Give me liberty or give me death!

Or maybe you have gotten too comfortable and think that freedom comes for free.

what are you talking about

[lfromnj]

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/08/ukraines-iron-general-zaluzhnyy-00023901
Article about Ukraine's general.

I think lost behind Russian incompetence is Ukraine competence .

[John Dule]

"How could these cowards refuse to fight and die in the trenches for their homeland?" I ask from behind my computer screen

Give me liberty or give me death!

How easy for you to say when it's not your death we're talking about.

[DaleCooper]

"How could these cowards refuse to fight and die in the trenches for their homeland?" I ask from behind my computer screen

Give me liberty or give me death!

How easy for you to say when it's not your death we're talking about.

If I was in Ukraine I'd have personally taken down the whole Russian military by now.

[Stranger in a strange land]

"How could these cowards refuse to fight and die in the trenches for their homeland?" I ask from behind my computer screen

Give me liberty or give me death!

Or maybe you have gotten too comfortable and think that freedom comes for free.

Several thoughts on this:
1) Ukraine banned men of military age from leaving not just to staff its military, but to keep them at their jobs. Essential work needs to go on even during wartime, particularly with anything involving food & weapons production, supply chains, and infrastructure. Ukraine can't possibly draft all military aged men into the army, and apparently there are so many volunteers that a draft is unnecessary.
2) If you let people flee from an invader, they'll just keep fleeing until there are no safe countries left.  
2a) And make no mistake, the Russian army is an invader which seeks to oppress not just Ukraine, but as much of Europe as they can get away with- I have no doubt that if Ukraine had fallen in 1 or 2 weeks as predicted, the next targets would have been the Baltic States, followed by Poland, and China would have made a grab for Taiwan
2b) Also, I find it pretty richly ironic that a lot of Right-Wing MGTOW & MRA types are criticizing Zelensky for this, when they also demand that El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala have essentially this exact policy to stop migration at the US's Southern border. Although in all fairness, the policy against leaving should probably also apply to childless women.
3) Of course, Zelensky's leadership by example here is absolutely critical. Had he decamped to Poland as many suggested and recommended, Ukraine would likely have fallen by now. Which makes his decision to stay stand as a lesson in leadership for the ages: if the enemy is coming for your capital, don't be a Ghani. Be a Zelensky. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees, and if you fight, you just might win and save yourself and many, many others.
4) Russia has revealed genocidal intent against Ukraine, both in its rhetoric and its actions. It's do or die for Ukraine. The Ukrainian Army and TDF now have the same "secret weapon" that Israel had in its wars against the Arab States. What Golda Meir told Joe Biden during his first trip to Israel as a freshman senator: "We have nowhere else to go." The fact that Jews and Ukrainians were both subjected to genocide - and Ukrainians subjected to genocide by the country that's invading them now -  heightens the sense of danger, purpose, and duty even more.
4a) If you don't like Israel or are upset by me using it as an analogy, I'd point out that essentially the same situation applies for Palestinians and Lebanese. Which is why Israel could never dislodge Hezbollah and it can never fully defeat the Palestinians.

[Person Man]

Russian soldiers 'looted radioactive material from Chernobyl research laboratories'

Somehow, and I don't know how, the already shockingly low stupidity bar keeps getting lower.

It's the Wolverines against the Wolf Pack.

[Woody]

Russian TV broadcasts 160 UA marines surrendering from Azovstal in Mariupol:

https://t.me/intelslava/24954

[pppolitics]

"How could these cowards refuse to fight and die in the trenches for their homeland?" I ask from behind my computer screen

Give me liberty or give me death!

How easy for you to say when it's not your death we're talking about.

Do you think I am a coward who wouldn't fight if my country is at stake?

I am not going to fight in foreign wars (i.e. Vietnam), but I would absolutely fight for my homeland.

After all, what is a life living under the feet of Putin?

[Hindsight was 2020]

Russian TV broadcasts 160 UA marines surrendering from Azovstal in Mariupol:

https://t.me/intelslava/24954

Okay now I’m starting to think I was first intuition was right and you are trying to troll by just posting pro-Russian news. This bs story has been debunked for weeks

[John Dule]

"How could these cowards refuse to fight and die in the trenches for their homeland?" I ask from behind my computer screen

Give me liberty or give me death!

How easy for you to say when it's not your death we're talking about.

Do you think I am a coward who wouldn't fight if my country is at stake?

I am not going to fight in foreign wars (i.e. Vietnam), but I would absolutely fight for my homeland.

After all, what is a life living under the feet of Putin?

Relevant again:

I believe that there's a legitimate debate to be had over whether it's preferable to be ruled by Putin or to see your country devolve into a European Syria, and the keyboard insurgents who want to see years of violent resistance have no right to judge the Ukrainian people for which option they choose.

[Woody]

Russian TV broadcasts 160 UA marines surrendering from Azovstal in Mariupol:

https://t.me/intelslava/24954

Okay now I’m starting to think I was first intuition was right and you are trying to troll by just posting pro-Russian news. This bs story has been debunked for weeks

These aren't the same marines from the 503rd who surrendered earlier this month, this is just in the last 24 hours. And no, that earlier story wasn't "debunked for weeks". Literally OSINT confirmed about it's surrender the day after, the 503rd's commander being in touch with him. Bro, I know it can be hard, but literally cite sources & try to dig in.

Like that story you just posted about 2k+ Russian deaths near Kharkiv, not only is that insane and impossible to confirm in such a short time nor has any serious intel even remotely talked about this, but that rumor was literally started by a "Canadian volunteer" from Twitter who has multiple times exaggerated bs stories from the start.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Russian TV broadcasts 160 UA marines surrendering from Azovstal in Mariupol:

https://t.me/intelslava/24954

Okay now I’m starting to think I was first intuition was right and you are trying to troll by just posting pro-Russian news. This bs story has been debunked for weeks

These aren't the same marines from the 503rd who surrendered earlier this month, this is just in the last 24 hours. And no, that earlier story wasn't "debunked for weeks". Literally OSINT confirmed about it's surrender the day after, the 503rd's commander being in touch with him. Bro, I know it can be hard, but literally cite sources & try to dig in.

Like that story you just posted about 2k+ Russian deaths near Kharkiv, not only is that insane and impossible to confirm in such a short time nor has any serious intel even remotely talked about this, but that rumor was literally started by a "Canadian volunteer" from Twitter who has multiple times exaggerated bs stories from the start.

He’s a more reliable source than Russian tv as he was telling about the process towards Kherson days before Ukraine military confirmed it. Also the fact remains that since you came back to this thread you have only been posting pro-Russian news which is suspect considering how overwhelming bad the war is going for them.

[Silent Hunter]

After all, what is a life living under the feet of Putin?

Some might prefer it to no life at all, of course.

[😥]

I believe that there's a legitimate debate to be had over whether it's preferable to be ruled by Putin or to see your country devolve into a European Syria, and the keyboard insurgents who want to see years of violent resistance have no right to judge the Ukrainian people for which option they choose.

First of all, I want you to know that I consider you a great poster, and then I want to explain the situation a bit, completely refuting your opinion.

So, now in Ukrainian society there is no question of living under the regime of the Kremlin marasmic or living in "European Syria". This question is not available for simple reasons, namely because one of these options is simply impossible.

Following the Kremlin's rhetoric, one can trace the change and aggravation in it. Now "denazification" is equated with de-Ukrainization, with 60% to 80% of Ukraine's population sometimes referred to as "Nazi aides" who, according to Russian propagandists and some officials, must be killed.

We can argue a lot and discuss the top reasons why Putin decided to invade Ukraine. I do not even plan to voice my opinion now, I will write about it after the Ukrainian victory. But now one thing must be objectively clear. I keep asking everyone to understand this and not try to pretend that it is not. Russia's goal now is to destroy the Ukrainian state and the Ukrainian nation, to destroy it completely. Russia's goal now is the genocide of Ukrainians, so we have no choice but to fight and fight for our survival.

If Russia stops fighting, there will be no war. If Ukraine stops fighting, there will be no more Ukraine

[😥]

Russian TV broadcasts 160 UA marines surrendering from Azovstal in Mariupol:

https://t.me/intelslava/24954

Well, Sir Woodburry, I have some free time today and I have not been lazy to read your posts in this thread, and I want to state that I strongly doubt that you are "on the Ukrainian side", as you said before. So far, I see that you are purely spreading Russian propaganda - and I ask you to stop

[DaleCooper]

Why is anybody responding to SirWoodbury's posts? If he's ever contributed any valuable information on any subject, I haven't seen it, so why would he suddenly start in this thread? Lol

[John Dule]

I believe that there's a legitimate debate to be had over whether it's preferable to be ruled by Putin or to see your country devolve into a European Syria, and the keyboard insurgents who want to see years of violent resistance have no right to judge the Ukrainian people for which option they choose.

First of all, I want you to know that I consider you a great poster, and then I want to explain the situation a bit, completely refuting your opinion.

So, now in Ukrainian society there is no question of living under the regime of the Kremlin marasmic or living in "European Syria". This question is not available for simple reasons, namely because one of these options is simply impossible.

Following the Kremlin's rhetoric, one can trace the change and aggravation in it. Now "denazification" is equated with de-Ukrainization, with 60% to 80% of Ukraine's population sometimes referred to as "Nazi aides" who, according to Russian propagandists and some officials, must be killed.

We can argue a lot and discuss the top reasons why Putin decided to invade Ukraine. I do not even plan to voice my opinion now, I will write about it after the Ukrainian victory. But now one thing must be objectively clear. I keep asking everyone to understand this and not try to pretend that it is not. Russia's goal now is to destroy the Ukrainian state and the Ukrainian nation, to destroy it completely. Russia's goal now is the genocide of Ukrainians, so we have no choice but to fight and fight for our survival.

If Russia stops fighting, there will be no war. If Ukraine stops fighting, there will be no more Ukraine

I understand this. I was referring only to the moral judgements certain users are passing against individual Ukrainians. Obviously it is imperative that every able-bodied Ukrainian fights against Russia, and I would like to think that if put in such a situation, I would do the same. I just dislike the fact that comfy western internet users are acting morally outraged about the fact that some individuals might not feel capable of risking their lives in this situation. It is impossible for us to know what we'd do here until we're actually faced with such a choice.

[😥]

Why is anybody responding to SirWoodbury's posts? If he's ever contributed any valuable information on any subject, I haven't seen it, so why would he suddenly start in this thread? Lol

I agree that he should simply be ignored. It would be better if he was banned

[😥]

I believe that there's a legitimate debate to be had over whether it's preferable to be ruled by Putin or to see your country devolve into a European Syria, and the keyboard insurgents who want to see years of violent resistance have no right to judge the Ukrainian people for which option they choose.

First of all, I want you to know that I consider you a great poster, and then I want to explain the situation a bit, completely refuting your opinion.

So, now in Ukrainian society there is no question of living under the regime of the Kremlin marasmic or living in "European Syria". This question is not available for simple reasons, namely because one of these options is simply impossible.

Following the Kremlin's rhetoric, one can trace the change and aggravation in it. Now "denazification" is equated with de-Ukrainization, with 60% to 80% of Ukraine's population sometimes referred to as "Nazi aides" who, according to Russian propagandists and some officials, must be killed.

We can argue a lot and discuss the top reasons why Putin decided to invade Ukraine. I do not even plan to voice my opinion now, I will write about it after the Ukrainian victory. But now one thing must be objectively clear. I keep asking everyone to understand this and not try to pretend that it is not. Russia's goal now is to destroy the Ukrainian state and the Ukrainian nation, to destroy it completely. Russia's goal now is the genocide of Ukrainians, so we have no choice but to fight and fight for our survival.

If Russia stops fighting, there will be no war. If Ukraine stops fighting, there will be no more Ukraine

I understand this. I was referring only to the moral judgements certain users are passing against individual Ukrainians. Obviously it is imperative that every able-bodied Ukrainian fights against Russia, and I would like to think that if put in such a situation, I would do the same. I just dislike the fact that comfy western internet users are acting morally outraged about the fact that some individuals might not feel capable of risking their lives in this situation. It is impossible for us to know what we'd do here until we're actually faced with such a choice.

Alright. Yeah, I agree with this point

[Woody]

Yes. The same source who claimed a whole Russian army encircled to the North of Kherson and 48 had hours to surrender only to be destroyed definitely happened in our universe, and a supposed foreign volunteer has time to constantly update his twitter.

If you're looking at 2k deaths you'd have other casualties and wounded ranging from 5k-10k. You mean to tell me a single Ukrainian attack managed to do this, out of essentially wiping out a convoy spanning numerous miles and we don't have satellite pictures nor guys in the ground with vidoes.

I should have rather said that Russian TV alleges that 160 marines have surrendered. But all the other posts I have cited when it comes from Russian telegrams have I never claimed were 100% true. I posted them because they look authentic and was reported by other 3rd parties to be credible enough, including Ukrainian sources, and just that they should be taken into consideration.

I am not pro-Russia because that would be absolutely psychotic in this scenario.

I think it's unfair how a lot of insane junk and obvious misinfo which any reasonable person would realize is claimed for clicks is taken at face value is being posted. At the very least, if you're going to post such an insane event taking place, you should have pictures, interviews, videos, intel, etc from atleast one source, whoever that might be.

[Woody]

https://twitter.com/CanadianUkrain1/status/1513274829503442945

"I would assume artillery did this"

[Splash]

Wait for this to be confirmed but concerning given the pronouncements from the separatist lackeys advocating for the use of "chemical troops" in Mariupol just earlier today.

https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1513597873593663492
  

[Pres Mike]

I hope I'm wrong, but I think the invasion will end any time soon. Putin is a dictator who doesn't care if his people suffer. Ukraine arent able to launch a counter offensive

[OSR stands with Israel]

Yes. The same source who claimed a whole Russian army encircled to the North of Kherson and 48 had hours to surrender only to be destroyed definitely happened in our universe, and a supposed foreign volunteer has time to constantly update his twitter.

If you're looking at 2k deaths you'd have other casualties and wounded ranging from 5k-10k. You mean to tell me a single Ukrainian attack managed to do this, out of essentially wiping out a convoy spanning numerous miles and we don't have satellite pictures nor guys in the ground with vidoes.

I should have rather said that Russian TV alleges that 160 marines have surrendered. But all the other posts I have cited when it comes from Russian telegrams have I never claimed were 100% true. I posted them because they look authentic and was reported by other 3rd parties to be credible enough, including Ukrainian sources, and just that they should be taken into consideration.

I am not pro-Russia because that would be absolutely psychotic in this scenario.

I think it's unfair how a lot of insane junk and obvious misinfo which any reasonable person would realize is claimed for clicks is taken at face value is being posted. At the very least, if you're going to post such an insane event taking place, you should have pictures, interviews, videos, intel, etc from atleast one source, whoever that might be.

Do you at the very least understand why your history of trolling can get people to question your motives here . Hope you can at least acknowledge that rather than expect everyone to just assume that you are arguing in good faith here