Israel-Gaza war

[Open Source Intelligence]

https://twitter.com/NTarnopolsky/status/1766831006923792509

Does the meaning of "come to Jesus moment" translate to a Jewish society? Semi-religious joke.

[rc18]

I like how we've gone from "Hamas' figures are totally believable, they've always been right, the UN [totally not riddled with Hamas sympathisers] said so."  to " Yeah Hamas lies through its teeth, but Israel bad".

[Comrade Funk]

I like how we've gone from "Hamas' figures are totally believable, they've always been right, the UN [totally not riddled with Hamas sympathisers] said so."  to " Yeah Hamas lies through its teeth, but Israel bad".

Not a single person here has defended Hamas. Not one. And if they did, they were banned. But continue your strawman assertions.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Are there any decent estimates of how many Hamas/PIJ et al, commanders are left? Surely they've taken heavy casualties.

[Vosem]

I like how we've gone from "Hamas' figures are totally believable, they've always been right, the UN [totally not riddled with Hamas sympathisers] said so."  to " Yeah Hamas lies through its teeth, but Israel bad".

Not a single person here has defended Hamas. Not one. And if they did, they were banned. But continue your strawman assertions.

I mean, there are many people on this forum who have said Israel should not have invaded Gaza. How is that different from defending Hamas?

[AtorBoltox]

I like how we've gone from "Hamas' figures are totally believable, they've always been right, the UN [totally not riddled with Hamas sympathisers] said so."  to " Yeah Hamas lies through its teeth, but Israel bad".

Not a single person here has defended Hamas. Not one. And if they did, they were banned. But continue your strawman assertions.

I mean, there are many people on this forum who have said Israel should not have invaded Gaza. How is that different from defending Hamas?

Because in their minds if they never literally say the words 'I support Hamas' it means that isn't what they're doing, I guess

[Comrade Funk]

I like how we've gone from "Hamas' figures are totally believable, they've always been right, the UN [totally not riddled with Hamas sympathisers] said so."  to " Yeah Hamas lies through its teeth, but Israel bad".

Not a single person here has defended Hamas. Not one. And if they did, they were banned. But continue your strawman assertions.

I mean, there are many people on this forum who have said Israel should not have invaded Gaza. How is that different from defending Hamas?

Israel is indiscriminately bombing and purposefully starving the people of Gaza. I know you think that's a swell strategy, but I don't, especially with American weapons being used for the slaughter.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I like how we've gone from "Hamas' figures are totally believable, they've always been right, the UN [totally not riddled with Hamas sympathisers] said so."  to " Yeah Hamas lies through its teeth, but Israel bad".

Not a single person here has defended Hamas. Not one. And if they did, they were banned. But continue your strawman assertions.

Laki and MATTROSE94 both come to mind, although yes the latter was banned.

[rc18]

I like how we've gone from "Hamas' figures are totally believable, they've always been right, the UN [totally not riddled with Hamas sympathisers] said so."  to " Yeah Hamas lies through its teeth, but Israel bad".

Not a single person here has defended Hamas. Not one. And if they did, they were banned. But continue your strawman assertions.

Where in that post do I state anyone is "defending Hamas"? Talk about strawmen. I was just amused by the range of rhetoric used in this thread regarding these causalty figures.



But since you bring it up...

Plenty of posters both in this thread and on others regurgitate the Hamas casualty figures as if they were fact. And not just on Atlas, the media is full of it. Are they explicitly "defending Hamas"? Well no I'm sure they rationalise what they are doing away somehow, like with the appeal to authority of some UN official claiming the Hamas figures are kosher.

But if you spout Hamas' propaganda aren't you a Hamas supporter? Posters who regurgitate Putin's propaganda talking points in the Ukraine thread get called Putin simps. In what way are they not Putin supporters?

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Israeli security policies towards Palestinians are what actually created Hamas' opening to be important.
Israel has to find some other way to operate than conducting what amounts to beyond-October 7th tolls of hardship on Palestinian populations. Life for Palestinians being as bad as it is (statelessness, arbitrariness, etc) is definitely partially the fault of the State of Israel.
The main problem isn't really Hamas because Hamas is functionally a vessel of the desire among many Palestinians to fight back against unjust Israeli policies (which gives them few if any peaceful ways to hope to secure their rights), with violence and the fact such a desire exists suggests a failure on part of Israel to judge its imperial possessions well. Getting rid of Hamas doesn't do much because something else will take its place even in a best-case scenario for them militarily. Hamas is obviously a problem but the bigger problem is that Israelis aren't willing to fundamentally reassess the approach that gave Hamas an audience. The current progression of the war in Gaza is evidence Israeli government officials could care less about what actually is the long-term interests of their own state, and they would rather please their interest groups and push maximalist goals - ironically, precisely what Hamas is doing.

Hyperfocus on Hamas misses the real root cause of these events. The history of the region didn't start on 10/7. Israel needs to respect Palestinian rights, needs to give Arabs more buy-in (giving up on things such as trying to forcibly break up the Arab lawyers association), and needs to reverse course on their most regionally unpopular practices in order to better their ties with neighboring Arab states. But they're so drunk on victory they won't even seriously ponder it.
Part of me thinks we'd be better off if all Palestinians in the West Bank took up Israeli citizenship. This would seriously erode the Jewish majority of Israel's electorate and make it impossible for Ben Gvir and Smotrich to be anything but politically marginalized.

[Silent Hunter]

In any event, Israel does not appear it is about to go into Rafah. It's sent a lot of reservists home because they're needed to keep the economy going.

[CumbrianLefty]

I like how we've gone from "Hamas' figures are totally believable, they've always been right, the UN [totally not riddled with Hamas sympathisers] said so."  to " Yeah Hamas lies through its teeth, but Israel bad".

It may be hard for blind pro-Israel partisans like you to process, but "both sides bad" has effectively been the default position for many of us in this conflict for some time now.

The tragedy is that whilst both sides have right on their side to a degree, the sheer intractability of the dispute that has thus resulted has led to the worst rising to the top in both camps.

[GoTfan]

My position is basically, if you are advocating for an end to the war that would leave Hamas in power, then you are pro-Hamas.  After the atrocity of 10/7 there is no way you can just be "neutral" on Hamas or tolerate their continued presence.  Either you want them to go, or you are pro-Hamas.

There is a certain type of person who:

• Dedicates 100% of their energy on this subject to trying to force Israel to withdraw
• Has absolutely no plan for how to eliminate Hamas after the war ends, and no interest in even discussing the topic
• Wants the war to end, but completely ignores the fact that Hamas is the sole party refusing to sign a ceasefire
• In lieu of forcing Israel to end the war, wants to weaken Israel by any means possible
• Repeats Hamas's excuses for continuing the war as though they're reasonable
• Also repeats Hamas's conditions for peace, which are basically "Israel totally surrenders to us", as though these are also reasonable
• If you scratch just beneath the surface, is more than willing to label Hamas as freedom fighters heroically battling the oppression of their colonizers

I would say this person is pro-Hamas.  I would also say that this describes more than 50% of people who are outspoken on this issue including, most likely, many of the celebrities who went viral for their Palestine activism at the Oscars last night.  I would also say that most of these same people are enjoying some extreme cognitive dissonance right now where they genuinely believe they are anti-Hamas, while simultaneously advocating for an extremely pro-Hamas position.  A position that basically requires you to have some degree of faith in Hamas and to view Hamas as more righteous than Israel.

Stop trying to characterise me and people like me as terrorist sympathisers. We are not. And since you and Vosem seem to agree on it, why don't you toss in with him and call me a Nazi and slavery supporter as well?

You two are exactly the same.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Are there any decent estimates of how many Hamas/PIJ et al, commanders are left? Surely they've taken heavy casualties.

Last updated 3/17/2024

EDIT: Updated Marwan Issa’s status

By most accounts, the mid-level leadership of Hamas - especially its mid-tier military commanders - has been largely decimated (sans the military commanders for Rafah-based brigades).  Ironically, Israel has had far more success in this conflict wiping out the next generation of Hamas leadership than the current one.  It’s also tricky b/c the Mossad has far better intelligence on the West Bank it does Gaza by most accounts.  Plus, Hamiyah’s death would just mean Mashaal replaces him and you risk a real international incident by striking in Qatar, so I doubt Israel risks it unless they are confident they can take out Mashaal and him simultaneously.  Anyway, here is my best answer to this question with respect to the top leaders (I’ll post the status of those I see as key leaders):

Hamas:
- Ismail Haniyeh: Leader of Hamas, Status: Living in luxury in Qatar

- Saleh Al-Arouri: Second in Command of Hamas’ Political Wing, Head of Hamas in Lebanon and Turkey, Military Commander of Hamas in the West Bank, Liaison to Hezbollah, and Liaison to Iran, Status: Killed in Drone Strike

- Khaled Mashal: Former Head of Hamas and Top Advisor to Haniyeh, Status: Living in Luxury in Qatar

- Yahya Sinwar: Head of Hamas in Gaza, Status: Hiding in Gaza

- Mohammed Deif: Head of Hamas’ Military Wing and second in command of Hamas in Gaza, Status: Hiding in Gaza

- Marwan Issa: Second in Command of Hamas’ Military Wing, Deif’s right hand man and top aide, third in command of Hamas in the Gaza Strip, and de facto Chief of Staff of Hamas’ Armed Forces, Status: Killed in Israeli Airstrike

- Mohammed Sinwar: Chief Commander of Hamas military forces in Southern Gaza, Yahya Sinwar’s brother and right-hand man, Status: Hiding in Gaza

- Abu Anas Al-Gandour: Chief Commander of Hamas’ military forces in Northern Gaza, Status: Killed in Israeli Air Strike

- Ayman Nofal: Chief Commander of Hamas’ military forces in Central Gaza, Status: Killed in Israeli Air Strike

PIJ: Much of their leadership was already taken out in an early 2023 conflict.

- Ziyad Al-Nakhalah: Leader of the PIJ, Status: Hiding in Syria or Lebanon

Popular Resistance Committees:

- Rafat Abu Hilal: Leader of the Popular Resistance Committees, Status: Killed in Air Strike

[Wiswylfen]

If that's true, then he needs to be prosecuted.

He will probably be treated as a hero by the same people who should be prosecuting him. Or at best they'll just ignore it.

He certainly won't face consequences, I'd wager a solid majority of Israelis agree with what he did.

If that's true, then why do you think that is?

What did you mean by this?

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers

Some pretty solid numbers coming out here.
Very strong negative correlation between men killed and women killed(although I do find this believable)

No correlation between children and women killed per day which doesn't make any sense.

Very tight linear line of growth of killed people killed per day in the first few weeks with no variation.

Ultimately the numbers are reliable enough for the Israeli government and military to use them internally with little dispute. "By historical standards of urban warfare, where combatants are embedded above and below into civilian population centers, this is a remarkable and successful effort to prevent unnecessary loss of life while fighting an implacable enemy that protects itself with civilians."--utterly pathetic. "Actually the military which was formed out of terrorist groups whose atrocities are still celebrated is the most humane in history ." Yeah OK!

3) His administration will not be stacked with racists who fantasize about committing genocide

Wow it sure is a good thing that they are not in a position to actually commit a genocide then is it not. Still no answer to that.

[Wiswylfen]

I like how we've gone from "Hamas' figures are totally believable, they've always been right, the UN [totally not riddled with Hamas sympathisers] said so."  to " Yeah Hamas lies through its teeth, but Israel bad".

Israel sold arms to the Argentines because Menachim Begin had a horrible little obsession with British soldiers being killed because his terrorist friends got what they deserved, his successor Netanyahu celebrates bombings that killed British soldiers and civilian non-combatants alike, and on the Atlas forum you never cease to worship it. You really are the perfect example of a certain section of the British right.

[Vosem]

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers

Some pretty solid numbers coming out here.
Very strong negative correlation between men killed and women killed(although I do find this believable)

No correlation between children and women killed per day which doesn't make any sense.

Very tight linear line of growth of killed people killed per day in the first few weeks with no variation.

Ultimately the numbers are reliable enough for the Israeli government and military to use them internally with little dispute.

Ultimately the Israeli government using those numbers with little dispute is example number million of Western governments and civil organizations using made-up authoritarian numbers with little dispute even when that actively warps their perception of the world, like how the CIA used basically made-up Soviet statistics about their economy in the 1980s, basically everyone including Western governments and media organizations uses Chinese statistics that the Chinese government doesn't even believe, and the populations and economic sizes of many African countries are exaggerated.

This is because lower-level officials in authoritarian systems are virtually always incentivized to exaggerate how many people they rule, to encourage the center to disperse them more resources, and almost always incentivized to exaggerate how well their economy is doing, so that the center will respect them. It is not just that casualty figures in Gaza are exaggerated (though this is certainly true) -- it is that any population or economic figures originating from any authoritarian government are likely to be exaggerated for reasons fundamental to how authoritarianism works. Westerners accept these numbers -- much as how they accept the entire Palestinian narrative, and once upon a time the Soviet narrative -- mostly out of ignorance and groupthink, but, yes, to some extent out of malice.

I like how we've gone from "Hamas' figures are totally believable, they've always been right, the UN [totally not riddled with Hamas sympathisers] said so."  to " Yeah Hamas lies through its teeth, but Israel bad".

Israel sold arms to the Argentines because Menachim Begin had a horrible little obsession with British soldiers being killed because his terrorist friends got what they deserved, his successor Netanyahu celebrates bombings that killed British soldiers and civilian non-combatants alike, and on the Atlas forum you never cease to worship it. You really are the perfect example of a certain section of the British right.

What, the victories in democratic elections that they deserved? This feels like complaining that the UK sold weapons to Jordan used to kill Israelis (...in fact in the 1940s they sent fighter pilots); more provocatively it's like complaining that the US armed the Afghan mujahideen, or that the Soviet Union armed and fed Germany between 1939-1941. The world turns and yesterday's alignments cease to be relevant. (And surely you've gotten enough revenge by funding UNRWA?)

Part of me wants to complain that you don't seem as upset by the Japanese government maintaining Yasukuni, or the French government maintaining the Arc de Triomphe (both of which are pretty aggressive commemorations of, uh, killing British troops), but then maybe you are upset by those things. I was kind of entertained to learn that some of your countrymen are scandalized by South Carolina memorializing Francis Marion as a hero, which does not strike me as something incredibly insulting or relevant to the 21st century. This kind of attitude is just a way to keep everyone hating everyone else forever.

[Wiswylfen]

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers

Some pretty solid numbers coming out here.
Very strong negative correlation between men killed and women killed(although I do find this believable)

No correlation between children and women killed per day which doesn't make any sense.

Very tight linear line of growth of killed people killed per day in the first few weeks with no variation.

Ultimately the numbers are reliable enough for the Israeli government and military to use them internally with little dispute.

Ultimately the Israeli government using those numbers with little dispute is example number million of Western governments and civil organizations using made-up authoritarian numbers with little dispute even when that actively warps their perception of the world, like how the CIA used basically made-up Soviet statistics about their economy in the 1980s, basically everyone including Western governments and media organizations uses Chinese statistics that the Chinese government doesn't even believe, and the populations and economic sizes of many African countries are exaggerated.

This is because lower-level officials in authoritarian systems are virtually always incentivized to exaggerate how many people they rule, to encourage the center to disperse them more resources, and almost always incentivized to exaggerate how well their economy is doing, so that the center will respect them. It is not just that casualty figures in Gaza are exaggerated (though this is certainly true) -- it is that any population or economic figures originating from any authoritarian government are likely to be exaggerated for reasons fundamental to how authoritarianism works. Westerners accept these numbers -- much as how they accept the entire Palestinian narrative, and once upon a time the Soviet narrative -- mostly out of ignorance and groupthink, but, yes, to some extent out of malice.

You forgot the part where the IDF are well aware of roughly how many people they (will) kill. It's not a secret, just something most people on this forum (not you of course!) would like to ignore because the collection of information on and deliberate targeting of civilian buildings to maximise suffering conflicts somewhat with the laughably pathetic attempts to pretend that the Israeli military is the most humane in history or whatever. Again, they would seem to align well enough to be used internally. A rather different situation, as I'm sure you'll recognise.

Mainly though it was a targeted jab at the excellent logic which would see the Israeli government and military designated as 'Hamas supporters' by one of their biggest defenders on this forum so don't focus on it too much.

I like how we've gone from "Hamas' figures are totally believable, they've always been right, the UN [totally not riddled with Hamas sympathisers] said so."  to " Yeah Hamas lies through its teeth, but Israel bad".

Israel sold arms to the Argentines because Menachim Begin had a horrible little obsession with British soldiers being killed because his terrorist friends got what they deserved, his successor Netanyahu celebrates bombings that killed British soldiers and civilian non-combatants alike, and on the Atlas forum you never cease to worship it. You really are the perfect example of a certain section of the British right.

What, the victories in democratic elections that they deserved? This feels like complaining that the UK sold weapons to Jordan used to kill Israelis (...in fact in the 1940s they sent fighter pilots); more provocatively it's like complaining that the US armed the Afghan mujahideen, or that the Soviet Union armed and fed Germany between 1939-1941. The world turns and yesterday's alignments cease to be relevant. (And surely you've gotten enough revenge by funding UNRWA?)

Part of me wants to complain that you don't seem as upset by the Japanese government maintaining Yasukuni, or the French government maintaining the Arc de Triomphe (both of which are pretty aggressive commemorations of, uh, killing British troops), but then maybe you are upset by those things. I was kind of entertained to learn that some of your countrymen are scandalized by South Carolina memorializing Francis Marion as a hero, which does not strike me as something incredibly insulting or relevant to the 21st century. This kind of attitude is just a way to keep everyone hating everyone else forever.

My thoughts align more with Lind's actually—some hero that takes up arms only for his own blood feud. Not sure about the idea that Francis Marion was a hero because he owned slaves, but I do appreciate the 'Anglo-Saxon' comment: believe the author's people spent a few years fighting a war against us (I note that I used that automatically) decrying us as Anglo-Saxons. Mel Gibson's fellow unassimilated Irish-Americans, on the other hand, claim the victory of those fighting for their rights as Englishmen for themselves—when they're not getting mad about the idea of supporting us against Hitler, that is.

Which neatly transitions into the 'victories in democratic elections' the Israeli right won on ethnic resentment (vs the hangings they got for being murderous scum), the sort of thing which is of course indicative of a healthy society. The British government explicitly did not sell weapons to Jordan to kill Israeli soldiers, which is an extraordinarily magnanimous gesture given that the Israeli soldiers Jordan was fighting against had a few years earlier been murderous terrorists targeting British soldiers. But, well, given your UNRWA comment, it seems you'll buy any propaganda Israel puts out, so it's little use.

Unlike you (?) I don't particularly mind grudges, though when an act of terror is still actively celebrated it's a bit doubtful it could be one on our end, but my opinion is separate to that: if a grudge is held against us and a state is therefore irrationally hostile to us (which Israel is), then we should recognise that for what it is and respond appropriately. If Japanese right-wingers celebrating and glorifying war criminals (notice that I do not care about the celebration of military victories or remembrance of the dead who, if they fought, did so honorably) were calling us racist for not supporting (hypothetically) Japan invading South Korea and carrying out a genocide and sections of the British right were backing them I might have an opinion about that.

[Silent Hunter]

What did you mean by this?

"If a solid majority of Israelis agree with the murder of unarmed Palestinians by their soldiers, why do you think that is?"

[Silent Hunter]

If Japanese right-wingers celebrating and glorifying war criminals (notice that I do not care about the celebration of military victories or remembrance of the dead who, if they fought, did so honorably) were calling us racist for not supporting (hypothetically) Japan invading South Korea and carrying out a genocide and sections of the British right were backing them I might have an opinion about that.

There's no hypothetical about it. Japan did precisely that in 1910, with the "genocide" more being an attempt to destroy Korean culture. We allied with them in the First World War:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_under_Japanese_rule

[Wiswylfen]

What did you mean by this?

"If a solid majority of Israelis agree with the murder of unarmed Palestinians by their soldiers, why do you think that is?"

Thanks for confirming.

If Japanese right-wingers celebrating and glorifying war criminals (notice that I do not care about the celebration of military victories or remembrance of the dead who, if they fought, did so honorably) were calling us racist for not supporting (hypothetically) Japan invading South Korea and carrying out a genocide and sections of the British right were backing them I might have an opinion about that.

There's no hypothetical about it. Japan did precisely that in 1910, with the "genocide" more being an attempt to destroy Korean culture. We allied with them in the First World War:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_under_Japanese_rule

Yes thank you for telling me. This is a modern-day hypothetical scenario (happening in 2024) in which Japan decided some time ago to take back the Japonic homeland or whatever. A Hamasesque terrorist group ruling Busan attacks Tsushima and it continues from there. Hence the 'hypothetically' and 'South Korea'.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

What did you mean by this?

"If a solid majority of Israelis agree with the murder of unarmed Palestinians by their soldiers, why do you think that is?"

Thanks for confirming.

If Japanese right-wingers celebrating and glorifying war criminals (notice that I do not care about the celebration of military victories or remembrance of the dead who, if they fought, did so honorably) were calling us racist for not supporting (hypothetically) Japan invading South Korea and carrying out a genocide and sections of the British right were backing them I might have an opinion about that.

There's no hypothetical about it. Japan did precisely that in 1910, with the "genocide" more being an attempt to destroy Korean culture. We allied with them in the First World War:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_under_Japanese_rule

Yes thank you for telling me. This is a modern-day hypothetical scenario (happening in 2024) in which Japan decided some time ago to take back the Japonic homeland or whatever. A Hamasesque terrorist group ruling Busan attacks Tsushima and it continues from there. Hence the 'hypothetically' and 'South Korea'.

I get what you're driving at here, but it is very tacky to compare the Jewish relationship with the Southern Levant in 1948 (or at any other time for that matter) to the Japanese relationsihp with the Korean Peninsula today (or at any time after the Battle of Sekigahara for that matter).

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

What did you mean by this?

"If a solid majority of Israelis agree with the murder of unarmed Palestinians by their soldiers, why do you think that is?"

Thanks for confirming.

If Japanese right-wingers celebrating and glorifying war criminals (notice that I do not care about the celebration of military victories or remembrance of the dead who, if they fought, did so honorably) were calling us racist for not supporting (hypothetically) Japan invading South Korea and carrying out a genocide and sections of the British right were backing them I might have an opinion about that.

There's no hypothetical about it. Japan did precisely that in 1910, with the "genocide" more being an attempt to destroy Korean culture. We allied with them in the First World War:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_under_Japanese_rule

Yes thank you for telling me. This is a modern-day hypothetical scenario (happening in 2024) in which Japan decided some time ago to take back the Japonic homeland or whatever. A Hamasesque terrorist group ruling Busan attacks Tsushima and it continues from there. Hence the 'hypothetically' and 'South Korea'.

I get what you're driving at here, but it is very tacky to compare the Jewish relationship with the Southern Levant in 1948 (or at any other time for that matter) to the Japanese relationsihp with the Korean Peninsula today (or at any time after the Battle of Sekigahara for that matter).

It's a bit wonky. The idea Jews are the only people who can claim the Holy Land is as tosh as they come and it's an attitude I greatly dislike deep down, and I've made Imperial Japan-Israel comparisons before, but there are differences that make such a comparison along these precise lines difficult to think through fully.  (Though it's true that there's more shared blood and ancestry than some would acknowledge)

[Wiswylfen]

I get what you're driving at here, but it is very tacky to compare the Jewish relationship with the Southern Levant in 1948 (or at any other time for that matter) to the Japanese relationsihp with the Korean Peninsula today (or at any time after the Battle of Sekigahara for that matter).

I mean I'm not really driving at anything because it's a cheap and undetailed hypothetical to get something actually equivalent rather than something that isn't equivalent in a post full of lies about how Britain "sold weapons to Jordan used to kill Israelis".

[Silent Hunter]

I get what you're driving at here, but it is very tacky to compare the Jewish relationship with the Southern Levant in 1948 (or at any other time for that matter) to the Japanese relationsihp with the Korean Peninsula today (or at any time after the Battle of Sekigahara for that matter).

I mean I'm not really driving at anything because it's a cheap and undetailed hypothetical to get something actually equivalent rather than something that isn't equivalent in a post full of lies about how Britain "sold weapons to Jordan used to kill Israelis".

Britain did sell weapons to Jordan that were used against Israel. Like the Hawker Hunter jet:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Jordanian_Air_Force