Israel-Gaza war

[The Mikado]

Israel is not a democracy.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

Israel is a democracy only in name.

Total lie.

How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?

All Arab-Israelis can vote in Israeli elections, and all Palestinian residents of Judea and Samaria can vote in Palestinian Authority elections. The alternative would be for Israel to annex Judea and Samaria -- do you want Israel to do that?

Why don't you answer my question?

--> "How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?"

Why would citizens subject to the Palestinian Authority get to vote in a foreign election? This question makes no sense at all.

[PSOL]

Well, outside of the extreme Serbian faction attacking Kosovo or the Amhara Nazis getting wrecked by cosmopolitans, I thought that that would be the peak of the spectacle in 2023.

I was wrong, the world is back on fire.

Seeing the Israeli tanks be taken out by Palestinian rocket fire and drones is not something I expected to see

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Israel is not a democracy.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

Israel is a democracy only in name.

Total lie.

How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?

All Arab-Israelis can vote in Israeli elections, and all Palestinian residents of Judea and Samaria can vote in Palestinian Authority elections. The alternative would be for Israel to annex Judea and Samaria -- do you want Israel to do that?

Why don't you answer my question?

--> "How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?"

None who are not citizens, of course. But that's an irrelevant question, just like asking "What % of Mexicans in Mexico can vote in American elections?"

The United States is not occupying Mexico as far as I am aware.

Okay, let me re-frame this discussion. Are you advocating that Israeli annex the West Bank, and grant citizenship to all Palestinians there?

[pppolitics]

Israel is not a democracy.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

Israel is a democracy only in name.

Total lie.

How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?

All Arab-Israelis can vote in Israeli elections, and all Palestinian residents of Judea and Samaria can vote in Palestinian Authority elections. The alternative would be for Israel to annex Judea and Samaria -- do you want Israel to do that?

Why don't you answer my question?

--> "How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?"

Why would citizens subject to the Palestinian Authority get to vote in a foreign election? This question makes no sense at all.

It's not a "foreign" election since Israel is occupying the area.

[Xing]

Absolutely tragic and unjustifiable. Israeli civilians are not to blame for the conflict.

[pppolitics]

Israel is not a democracy.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

Israel is a democracy only in name.

Total lie.

How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?

All Arab-Israelis can vote in Israeli elections, and all Palestinian residents of Judea and Samaria can vote in Palestinian Authority elections. The alternative would be for Israel to annex Judea and Samaria -- do you want Israel to do that?

Why don't you answer my question?

--> "How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?"

None who are not citizens, of course. But that's an irrelevant question, just like asking "What % of Mexicans in Mexico can vote in American elections?"

The United States is not occupying Mexico as far as I am aware.

Okay, let me re-frame this discussion. Are you advocating that Israeli annex the West Bank, and grant citizenship to all Palestinians there?

Israel can either (1.) annex the West Bank and grant citizenship to Palestinians there or (2.) leave the West Bank

[lfromnj]

It's fascinating to me how people will talk about whether Israel is a democracy or not and then in the same breath talk about how Hamas is the democratic choice of the people of Gaza. Hamas won an election in 2006, hosted a coup, severed Gaza off from the rest of the Palestinian Authority, rejected the idea of holding another election or reuniting with the West Bank, and has ignored or worked to sidetrack any peace negotiations held by the actual Palestinian government in Ramallah ever since. But sure, Hamas' Gaza is a democracy because they won a vote 17 years ago and have installed a regime of autarky and starvation and made sure no one could vote them out over it ever since.

It's wild to me that so many people in this thread are treating Hamas, rather than Fatah and Mahmoud Abbas, as the legitimate face of the Palestinians. The Palestinians have a leader and they have a government and it wants no part in this stupid war! This is on Hamas.

What makes Abbas the choice of the Palestinians if there hasn't been an election since then? I was treating Hamas as the choice as an educated guess on what the majority of Palestinians support .

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Israel is not a democracy.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

Israel is a democracy only in name.

Total lie.

How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?

All Arab-Israelis can vote in Israeli elections, and all Palestinian residents of Judea and Samaria can vote in Palestinian Authority elections. The alternative would be for Israel to annex Judea and Samaria -- do you want Israel to do that?

Why don't you answer my question?

--> "How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?"

None who are not citizens, of course. But that's an irrelevant question, just like asking "What % of Mexicans in Mexico can vote in American elections?"

The United States is not occupying Mexico as far as I am aware.

Okay, let me re-frame this discussion. Are you advocating that Israeli annex the West Bank, and grant citizenship to all Palestinians there?

Israel can either (1.) annex the West Bank and grant citizenship to Palestinians there or (2.) leave the West Bank

Do you understand that the Palestinians and Arab governments would violently object to 1, and that as today demonstrates 2 is not feasible?

[All Along The Watchtower]

It's fascinating to me how people will talk about whether Israel is a democracy or not and then in the same breath talk about how Hamas is the democratic choice of the people of Gaza. Hamas won an election in 2006, hosted a coup, severed Gaza off from the rest of the Palestinian Authority, rejected the idea of holding another election or reuniting with the West Bank, and has ignored or worked to sidetrack any peace negotiations held by the actual Palestinian government in Ramallah ever since. But sure, Hamas' Gaza is a democracy because they won a vote 17 years ago and have installed a regime of autarky and starvation and made sure no one could vote them out over it ever since.

It's wild to me that so many people in this thread are treating Hamas, rather than Fatah and Mahmoud Abbas, as the legitimate face of the Palestinians. The Palestinians have a leader and they have a government and it wants no part in this stupid war! This is on Hamas.

Mahmoud Abbas’s four-year term as President expired almost 15 years ago. Not sure how much legitimacy he has within the territories the PA governs (in collaboration with the Israeli military; one could be forgiven for believing that this undermines his legitimacy among the Palestinians).

There’s international legitimacy and there’s domestic legitimacy. We see many divides between the two between Israelis and the international community (broadly defined)—is it the West Bank or Judea and Samaria? The same can be and is also true of the Palestinians.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Absolutely tragic and unjustifiable. Israeli civilians are not to blame for the conflict.

I totally agree.

As I've often said on Atlas, violence begets violence, which begets more violence, which begets more violence after that. It's an endless cycle.

Israeli civilians killed by rockets or kidnapped by Hamas will result in the IDF launching airstrikes on Gaza that will level whole apartment blocs and result in thousands of Palestinians dying. The generation of young Palestinian children who experience the horrors that are about to come to Gaza will grow up traumatized and radicalized against Israel. Those children, come 2040ish, will be the lifeblood of the next wave of violence, and the Israeli children traumatized by todays event will be compelled by the brutal reality of circumstance to kill those same Palestinians on the battlefield. Do you see how the cycle just perpetuates itself?

[Libertas Vel Mors]

It's fascinating to me how people will talk about whether Israel is a democracy or not and then in the same breath talk about how Hamas is the democratic choice of the people of Gaza. Hamas won an election in 2006, hosted a coup, severed Gaza off from the rest of the Palestinian Authority, rejected the idea of holding another election or reuniting with the West Bank, and has ignored or worked to sidetrack any peace negotiations held by the actual Palestinian government in Ramallah ever since. But sure, Hamas' Gaza is a democracy because they won a vote 17 years ago and have installed a regime of autarky and starvation and made sure no one could vote them out over it ever since.

It's wild to me that so many people in this thread are treating Hamas, rather than Fatah and Mahmoud Abbas, as the legitimate face of the Palestinians. The Palestinians have a leader and they have a government and it wants no part in this stupid war! This is on Hamas.

Mahmoud Abbas’s four-year term as President expired almost 15 years ago. Not sure how much legitimacy he has within the territories the PA governs (in collaboration with the Israeli military; one could be forgiven for believing that this undermines his legitimacy among the Palestinians).

There’s international legitimacy and there’s domestic legitimacy. We see many divides between the two between Israelis and the international community (broadly defined)—is it the West Bank or Judea and Samaria? The same can be and is also true of the Palestinians.

Yeah, Hamas is the legitimate face of the Palestinians (even if it is not democratically-elected). They own this.

[oldtimer]

Israel is not a democracy.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

Israel is a democracy only in name.

Total lie.

How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?

All Arab-Israelis can vote in Israeli elections, and all Palestinian residents of Judea and Samaria can vote in Palestinian Authority elections. The alternative would be for Israel to annex Judea and Samaria -- do you want Israel to do that?

Why don't you answer my question?

--> "How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?"

None who are not citizens, of course. But that's an irrelevant question, just like asking "What % of Mexicans in Mexico can vote in American elections?"

The United States is not occupying Mexico as far as I am aware.

Okay, let me re-frame this discussion. Are you advocating that Israeli annex the West Bank, and grant citizenship to all Palestinians there?

Israel can either (1.) annex the West Bank and grant citizenship to Palestinians there or (2.) leave the West Bank

Do you understand that the Palestinians and Arab governments would violently object to 1, and that as today demonstrates 2 is not feasible?

Option 3. Jordan gets the West Bank, or at least most of it.

[All Along The Watchtower]

I somehow doubt that King Abdullah II wants to have more Palestinians to govern (or indeed, refugees from other conflicts).

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Absolutely tragic and unjustifiable. Israeli civilians are not to blame for the conflict.

I totally agree.

As I've often said on Atlas, violence begets violence, which begets more violence, which begets more violence after that. It's an endless cycle.

Israeli civilians killed by rockets or kidnapped by Hamas will result in the IDF launching airstrikes on Gaza that will level whole apartment blocs and result in thousands of Palestinians dying. The generation of young Palestinian children who experience the horrors that are about to come to Gaza will grow up traumatized and radicalized against Israel. Those children, come 2040ish, will be the lifeblood of the next wave of violence, and the Israeli children traumatized by todays event will be compelled by the brutal reality of circumstance to kill those same Palestinians on the battlefield. Do you see how the cycle just perpetuates itself?

Yes, but Sanchez,

A. Given that Islamic terrorism is so widespread even in countries where nothing of the sort has occurred (ie, Palestinians in Lebanon engaging in terrorism after not being in Israel, but also more broadly), don't you think this might keep happening even if Israel didn't retaliate?

B. If peace is impossible, what would you recommend Israel do? (This isn't a gotcha question -- I am genuinely curious, since your analysis in generally sage)

[The Mikado]

Israel is not a democracy.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

Israel is a democracy only in name.

Total lie.

How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?

All Arab-Israelis can vote in Israeli elections, and all Palestinian residents of Judea and Samaria can vote in Palestinian Authority elections. The alternative would be for Israel to annex Judea and Samaria -- do you want Israel to do that?

Why don't you answer my question?

--> "How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?"

None who are not citizens, of course. But that's an irrelevant question, just like asking "What % of Mexicans in Mexico can vote in American elections?"

The United States is not occupying Mexico as far as I am aware.

Okay, let me re-frame this discussion. Are you advocating that Israeli annex the West Bank, and grant citizenship to all Palestinians there?

Israel can either (1.) annex the West Bank and grant citizenship to Palestinians there or (2.) leave the West Bank

Do you understand that the Palestinians and Arab governments would violently object to 1, and that as today demonstrates 2 is not feasible?

Option 3. Jordan gets the West Bank, or at least most of it.

Unless you have a time machine to 1967 this (or its companion "Gaza to Egypt") is a non-starter because the Jordanians are TERRIFIED of this prospect (likely meaning revolution in Jordan and a Palestinian majority in their population) just like the Egyptians are desperate to not have 2 million mouths to feed in Gaza.

There's that story of Trump calling up the Jordanian King and nearly giving him a heart attack by saying "Good news, you're getting the West Bank!" when he was up on his peace deal attempt.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Israel is not a democracy.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

Israel is a democracy only in name.

Total lie.

How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?

All Arab-Israelis can vote in Israeli elections, and all Palestinian residents of Judea and Samaria can vote in Palestinian Authority elections. The alternative would be for Israel to annex Judea and Samaria -- do you want Israel to do that?

Why don't you answer my question?

--> "How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?"

None who are not citizens, of course. But that's an irrelevant question, just like asking "What % of Mexicans in Mexico can vote in American elections?"

The United States is not occupying Mexico as far as I am aware.

Okay, let me re-frame this discussion. Are you advocating that Israeli annex the West Bank, and grant citizenship to all Palestinians there?

Israel can either (1.) annex the West Bank and grant citizenship to Palestinians there or (2.) leave the West Bank

Do you understand that the Palestinians and Arab governments would violently object to 1, and that as today demonstrates 2 is not feasible?

Option 3. Jordan gets the West Bank, or at least most of it.

That would result in both of the downsides of 1 and 2: Israel would no longer be secure, and the Palestinians would hate it. Plus, Jordan would hate it!

[pppolitics]

Israel is not a democracy.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

Israel is a democracy only in name.

Total lie.

How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?

All Arab-Israelis can vote in Israeli elections, and all Palestinian residents of Judea and Samaria can vote in Palestinian Authority elections. The alternative would be for Israel to annex Judea and Samaria -- do you want Israel to do that?

Why don't you answer my question?

--> "How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?"

None who are not citizens, of course. But that's an irrelevant question, just like asking "What % of Mexicans in Mexico can vote in American elections?"

The United States is not occupying Mexico as far as I am aware.

Okay, let me re-frame this discussion. Are you advocating that Israeli annex the West Bank, and grant citizenship to all Palestinians there?

Israel can either (1.) annex the West Bank and grant citizenship to Palestinians there or (2.) leave the West Bank

Do you understand that the Palestinians and Arab governments would violently object to 1, and that as today demonstrates 2 is not feasible?

Do you understand that Israel is disenfranchising millions of Palestinians?

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Israel is not a democracy.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

Israel is a democracy only in name.

Total lie.

How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?

All Arab-Israelis can vote in Israeli elections, and all Palestinian residents of Judea and Samaria can vote in Palestinian Authority elections. The alternative would be for Israel to annex Judea and Samaria -- do you want Israel to do that?

Why don't you answer my question?

--> "How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?"

None who are not citizens, of course. But that's an irrelevant question, just like asking "What % of Mexicans in Mexico can vote in American elections?"

The United States is not occupying Mexico as far as I am aware.

Okay, let me re-frame this discussion. Are you advocating that Israeli annex the West Bank, and grant citizenship to all Palestinians there?

Israel can either (1.) annex the West Bank and grant citizenship to Palestinians there or (2.) leave the West Bank

Do you understand that the Palestinians and Arab governments would violently object to 1, and that as today demonstrates 2 is not feasible?

Option 3. Jordan gets the West Bank, or at least most of it.

Unless you have a time machine to 1967 this (or its companion "Gaza to Egypt") is a non-starter because the Jordanians are TERRIFIED of this prospect (likely meaning revolution in Jordan and a Palestinian majority in their population) just like the Egyptians are desperate to not have 2 million mouths to feed in Gaza.

There's that story of Trump calling up the Jordanian King and nearly giving him a heart attack by saying "Good news, you're getting the West Bank!" when he was up on his peace deal attempt.

Yeah, the Jordanians definitely haven't forgotten Black September and definitely don't want millions of Islamists joining their country.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Absolutely tragic and unjustifiable. Israeli civilians are not to blame for the conflict.

I totally agree.

As I've often said on Atlas, violence begets violence, which begets more violence, which begets more violence after that. It's an endless cycle.

Israeli civilians killed by rockets or kidnapped by Hamas will result in the IDF launching airstrikes on Gaza that will level whole apartment blocs and result in thousands of Palestinians dying. The generation of young Palestinian children who experience the horrors that are about to come to Gaza will grow up traumatized and radicalized against Israel. Those children, come 2040ish, will be the lifeblood of the next wave of violence, and the Israeli children traumatized by todays event will be compelled by the brutal reality of circumstance to kill those same Palestinians on the battlefield. Do you see how the cycle just perpetuates itself?

Yes, but Sanchez,

A. Given that Islamic terrorism is so widespread even in countries where nothing of the sort has occurred (ie, Palestinians in Lebanon engaging in terrorism after not being in Israel, but also more broadly), don't you think this might keep happening even if Israel didn't retaliate?

B. If peace is impossible, what would you recommend Israel do? (This isn't a gotcha question -- I am genuinely curious, since your analysis in generally sage)

1. Yes. I don't hold the Israelis at fault for responding to this.

2. I have no idea what they should do. In hindsight, establishing a Jewish State in Palestine was probably not the best idea, but as I've said before, it's not like they can undo that, pack up all their stuff, and just go back to Poland as Helen Thomas (infamously) suggested. I have no idea how this cycle of violence will end, if it will ever end, or if its even supposed to end.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Israel is not a democracy.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

Israel is a democracy only in name.

Total lie.

How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?

All Arab-Israelis can vote in Israeli elections, and all Palestinian residents of Judea and Samaria can vote in Palestinian Authority elections. The alternative would be for Israel to annex Judea and Samaria -- do you want Israel to do that?

Why don't you answer my question?

--> "How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?"

None who are not citizens, of course. But that's an irrelevant question, just like asking "What % of Mexicans in Mexico can vote in American elections?"

The United States is not occupying Mexico as far as I am aware.

Okay, let me re-frame this discussion. Are you advocating that Israeli annex the West Bank, and grant citizenship to all Palestinians there?

Israel can either (1.) annex the West Bank and grant citizenship to Palestinians there or (2.) leave the West Bank

Do you understand that the Palestinians and Arab governments would violently object to 1, and that as today demonstrates 2 is not feasible?

Do you understand that Israel is disenfranchising millions of Palestinians?

They're not disenfranchsing anyone, because these Palestinians don't in Israel. So the question thus becomes, again

1. Do you want Israel to annex the West Bank, which the Palestinians and Arab governments would violently object to?

or

2. Do you want Israel to leave the West Bank, even though that would lead to regular terrorist attacks like this?

[pppolitics]

Israel is not a democracy.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

Israel is a democracy only in name.

Total lie.

How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?

All Arab-Israelis can vote in Israeli elections, and all Palestinian residents of Judea and Samaria can vote in Palestinian Authority elections. The alternative would be for Israel to annex Judea and Samaria -- do you want Israel to do that?

Why don't you answer my question?

--> "How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?"

None who are not citizens, of course. But that's an irrelevant question, just like asking "What % of Mexicans in Mexico can vote in American elections?"

The United States is not occupying Mexico as far as I am aware.

Okay, let me re-frame this discussion. Are you advocating that Israeli annex the West Bank, and grant citizenship to all Palestinians there?

Israel can either (1.) annex the West Bank and grant citizenship to Palestinians there or (2.) leave the West Bank

Do you understand that the Palestinians and Arab governments would violently object to 1, and that as today demonstrates 2 is not feasible?

Do you understand that Israel is disenfranchising millions of Palestinians?

They're not disenfranchsing anyone, because these Palestinians don't in Israel. So the question thus becomes, again

1. Do you want Israel to annex the West Bank, which the Palestinians and Arab governments would violently object to?

or

2. Do you want Israel to leave the West Bank, even though that would lead to regular terrorist attacks like this?

Palestinians don't [what?] in Israel

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Israel is not a democracy.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

Israel is a democracy only in name.

Total lie.

How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?

All Arab-Israelis can vote in Israeli elections, and all Palestinian residents of Judea and Samaria can vote in Palestinian Authority elections. The alternative would be for Israel to annex Judea and Samaria -- do you want Israel to do that?

Why don't you answer my question?

--> "How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?"

None who are not citizens, of course. But that's an irrelevant question, just like asking "What % of Mexicans in Mexico can vote in American elections?"

The United States is not occupying Mexico as far as I am aware.

Okay, let me re-frame this discussion. Are you advocating that Israeli annex the West Bank, and grant citizenship to all Palestinians there?

Israel can either (1.) annex the West Bank and grant citizenship to Palestinians there or (2.) leave the West Bank

Do you understand that the Palestinians and Arab governments would violently object to 1, and that as today demonstrates 2 is not feasible?

Do you understand that Israel is disenfranchising millions of Palestinians?

They're not disenfranchsing anyone, because these Palestinians don't in Israel. So the question thus becomes, again

1. Do you want Israel to annex the West Bank, which the Palestinians and Arab governments would violently object to?

or

2. Do you want Israel to leave the West Bank, even though that would lead to regular terrorist attacks like this?

Palestinians don't [what?] in Israel

Sorry, live

[All Along The Watchtower]

Israel is not a democracy.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

Israel is a democracy only in name.

Total lie.

How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?

All Arab-Israelis can vote in Israeli elections, and all Palestinian residents of Judea and Samaria can vote in Palestinian Authority elections. The alternative would be for Israel to annex Judea and Samaria -- do you want Israel to do that?

Why don't you answer my question?

--> "How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?"

None who are not citizens, of course. But that's an irrelevant question, just like asking "What % of Mexicans in Mexico can vote in American elections?"

The United States is not occupying Mexico as far as I am aware.

Okay, let me re-frame this discussion. Are you advocating that Israeli annex the West Bank, and grant citizenship to all Palestinians there?

Israel can either (1.) annex the West Bank and grant citizenship to Palestinians there or (2.) leave the West Bank

Do you understand that the Palestinians and Arab governments would violently object to 1, and that as today demonstrates 2 is not feasible?

Option 3. Jordan gets the West Bank, or at least most of it.

Unless you have a time machine to 1967 this (or its companion "Gaza to Egypt") is a non-starter because the Jordanians are TERRIFIED of this prospect (likely meaning revolution in Jordan and a Palestinian majority in their population) just like the Egyptians are desperate to not have 2 million mouths to feed in Gaza.

There's that story of Trump calling up the Jordanian King and nearly giving him a heart attack by saying "Good news, you're getting the West Bank!" when he was up on his peace deal attempt.

Ninth dimensional chess:

- Jordan gets the West Bank
- Palestinian majority in Jordan, revolution topples the Hashemite monarchy
- MBS: “This is my chance to take control of Islam’s Holy Sites in Jerusalem and finally finish what my grandfather started!”
- Israel-Saudi normalization finally, Jordan no longer exists

[pppolitics]

Israel is not a democracy.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

Israel is a democracy only in name.

Total lie.

How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?

All Arab-Israelis can vote in Israeli elections, and all Palestinian residents of Judea and Samaria can vote in Palestinian Authority elections. The alternative would be for Israel to annex Judea and Samaria -- do you want Israel to do that?

Why don't you answer my question?

--> "How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?"

None who are not citizens, of course. But that's an irrelevant question, just like asking "What % of Mexicans in Mexico can vote in American elections?"

The United States is not occupying Mexico as far as I am aware.

Okay, let me re-frame this discussion. Are you advocating that Israeli annex the West Bank, and grant citizenship to all Palestinians there?

Israel can either (1.) annex the West Bank and grant citizenship to Palestinians there or (2.) leave the West Bank

Do you understand that the Palestinians and Arab governments would violently object to 1, and that as today demonstrates 2 is not feasible?

Do you understand that Israel is disenfranchising millions of Palestinians?

They're not disenfranchsing anyone, because these Palestinians don't in Israel. So the question thus becomes, again

1. Do you want Israel to annex the West Bank, which the Palestinians and Arab governments would violently object to?

or

2. Do you want Israel to leave the West Bank, even though that would lead to regular terrorist attacks like this?

Palestinians don't [what?] in Israel

Sorry, live

Either the West Bank is part of Israel and the Palestinians get the right to vote or the West Bank isn't part of Israel and the Israelis need to get the hell out.

[ꙮ]

Not to derail a fascinating thread about whether Palestinians should be able to vote in Israeli elections, but does anyone know where I can find updates on the ongoing war?