Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread
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Author Topic: Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread  (Read 929139 times)
urutzizu
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« Reply #7800 on: March 20, 2022, 12:28:56 PM »
Chinese Ambassador to the U.S. Qin Gang on "Face the Nation"
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/qin-gang-chinese-ambassador-face-the-nation-03-20-2022/

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AMB. GANG: Well, There's a disinformation about China providing military assistance to Russia. We reject that--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --You won't do so, Beijing will not?

AMB. GANG: What China is doing is send foods, medicine, sleeping bags and the baby formula--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --That's--

AMB. GANG: --not weapons and ammunition to any party and we are against a war, as I said, you know, we will do everything to dis-escalate the crisis.

China refuses military aid to Russia. Maybe people on this thread should stop framing this conflict on civilizational lines. And I would say, that when even Philippines foreign minister (who voted in favour of UNGA Res ES-11/1!) is saying that "The West is fighting to the last Ukrainian man, woman and child.", I suggest West has a severe problem with messaging. Because, like it or not, they do represent the majority or the global population.
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Storr
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« Reply #7801 on: March 20, 2022, 12:47:59 PM »
« Edited: March 20, 2022, 01:11:04 PM by Storr »
Quote from: urutzizu on March 20, 2022, 12:28:56 PM
Chinese Ambassador to the U.S. Qin Gang on "Face the Nation"
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/qin-gang-chinese-ambassador-face-the-nation-03-20-2022/

Quote
AMB. GANG: Well, There's a disinformation about China providing military assistance to Russia. We reject that--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --You won't do so, Beijing will not?

AMB. GANG: What China is doing is send foods, medicine, sleeping bags and the baby formula--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --That's--

AMB. GANG: --not weapons and ammunition to any party and we are against a war, as I said, you know, we will do everything to dis-escalate the crisis.

China refuses military aid to Russia. Maybe people on this thread should stop framing this conflict on civilizational lines. And I would say, that when even Philippines foreign minister (who voted in favour of UNGA Res ES-11/1!) is saying that "The West is fighting to the last Ukrainian man, woman and child.", I suggest West has a severe problem with messaging. Because, like it or not, they do represent the majority or the global population.
So what should "the West" do? Tell Ukraine to give up because more Ukrainians will die if they continue to fight? They are fighting for their country. They aren't some pawns of "the West" and wouldn't stop fighting even if western countries stopped supplying weapons and aid.
If anything the "global South" should be supporting Ukraine because the Russian invasion is literally an imperialist war. It's aim is/was to overthrow the current independent Ukrainian government and install a government favorable and subservient to Russia.
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AndyHogan14
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« Reply #7802 on: March 20, 2022, 12:51:12 PM »
If this is true, I would love for them to remain quiet about it.


I am very much looking forward to the day when I wake up and see something similar to this regarding Putin.
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #7803 on: March 20, 2022, 01:13:46 PM »
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ugabug
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« Reply #7804 on: March 20, 2022, 01:19:42 PM »
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compucomp
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« Reply #7805 on: March 20, 2022, 01:20:20 PM »
Quote from: urutzizu on March 20, 2022, 12:28:56 PM
Chinese Ambassador to the U.S. Qin Gang on "Face the Nation"
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/qin-gang-chinese-ambassador-face-the-nation-03-20-2022/

Quote
AMB. GANG: Well, There's a disinformation about China providing military assistance to Russia. We reject that--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --You won't do so, Beijing will not?

AMB. GANG: What China is doing is send foods, medicine, sleeping bags and the baby formula--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --That's--

AMB. GANG: --not weapons and ammunition to any party and we are against a war, as I said, you know, we will do everything to dis-escalate the crisis.

China refuses military aid to Russia. Maybe people on this thread should stop framing this conflict on civilizational lines. And I would say, that when even Philippines foreign minister (who voted in favour of UNGA Res ES-11/1!) is saying that "The West is fighting to the last Ukrainian man, woman and child.", I suggest West has a severe problem with messaging. Because, like it or not, they do represent the majority or the global population.

However Ambassador Qin confirmed that we did not cut off our trade with Russia and thus are probably giving them nonlethal aid. I think the evidence is leaning towards my interpretation of the Xi/Biden call. So far (in 2 days, probably too early to call), I like how China responded, we stood up to American bullying, supported our ally, but by excluding military aid for now, we kept consistent with our message, and gave the Americans the opportunity to climb down and effectively cut off the dispute here, rather than humiliating them and forcing them into further escalation.

However the hawks on this thread probably now want sanctions on China for this and I'm sure there are hawks in Biden's administration who agree. We'll see how Biden proceeds.

Also, shame on you CBS, it's been how many years and you still can't figure out Chinese naming conventions and which name is the family name and which one is the given name?

Quote from: Torie on March 20, 2022, 09:59:41 AM
Oh, Meet the Press thinks based on the Biden call with Xi, and an in person meeting of Blinken and the Chinese ambassador, that China will not be providing economic or military aid to Russia and is trying to distance itself from the civilian slaughter in Russia. Just the opinion of the panelists there of course. They could be wrong.

We're all trying to read tea leaves here. It's not easy to do. Also Chinese attitudes towards the US have changed quite a bit since Trump came into office (so, for that matter, have American attitudes towards China) and perhaps these panelists are drawing on their experience from before.
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Badger
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« Reply #7806 on: March 20, 2022, 01:20:44 PM »
Quote from: Storr on March 19, 2022, 02:32:27 PM
Ummm...





 Holy s***, has this been confirmed?!?

This is literal ethnic cleansing!
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It’s so Joever
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« Reply #7807 on: March 20, 2022, 01:25:22 PM »
Quote from: Southern Delegate Punxsutawney Phil on March 19, 2022, 07:07:14 PM
Quote from: Interlocutor on March 19, 2022, 06:58:17 PM
I'm here for Russian/Ukraine updates and couldn't give two s**s about a multi-page, multi-person debate started by a bootlicker and folks who refuse to stop feeding and encouraging said bootlicker.

Take it to another thread.
Stop treating other people's perspectives with disrespect. (If you want to consider Brazil, Vietnam, or other neutrals nations of bootlickers, please be honest and say so.)
Fine, but if either gets invaded by a neighbor unjustly, I would have no moral problems with not helping the humanitarian situation at all.

(Geopolitical factors would make it that I likely would support Vietnam in such a case and likely Brazil but morally meh)
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It’s so Joever
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« Reply #7808 on: March 20, 2022, 01:28:38 PM »
Quote from: Badger on March 20, 2022, 01:20:44 PM
Quote from: Storr on March 19, 2022, 02:32:27 PM
Ummm...





 Holy s***, has this been confirmed?!?

This is literal ethnic cleansing!
I haven’t seen unbiased independent confirmation but it is possible and we should be doing what we can to find out. Best to wait and see for more.


But I will say, remember when Forumlurker and the other “hawks” were just horrible warmongers who hated humanity when they raised this possibility and asked whether it should warrant greater intervention? Quaint times those were.
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ugabug
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« Reply #7809 on: March 20, 2022, 01:33:54 PM »
This is why Russia can't win even if the could somehow conquer the country too much of the country is now united against them.



Also completely agree with this.
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pppolitics
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« Reply #7810 on: March 20, 2022, 01:41:03 PM »
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pppolitics
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« Reply #7811 on: March 20, 2022, 01:47:09 PM »
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #7812 on: March 20, 2022, 01:50:50 PM »
Quote from: jaichind on March 20, 2022, 11:18:06 AM
New Russian fast food restaurant "Uncle Vanya" emerges



Many Russians are looking forward to get a taste of the new Stalinburger with Cheese.
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Storr
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« Reply #7813 on: March 20, 2022, 02:05:46 PM »
« Edited: March 20, 2022, 02:11:23 PM by Storr »
Quote from: ugabug on March 20, 2022, 01:33:54 PM
This is why Russia can't win even if the could somehow conquer the country too much of the country is now united against them.



Also completely agree with this.


Meanwhile in Enerhodar (location of Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant): a Russian soldier fires warning shots into the air and the crowd doesn't move an inch. Unsurprisingly, shooting a gun only makes the crowd louder and angrier. The Russians end up fleeing in their ancient discount post office truck.

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« Reply #7814 on: March 20, 2022, 02:06:45 PM »
Quote from: Storr on March 20, 2022, 02:05:46 PM
Quote from: ugabug on March 20, 2022, 01:33:54 PM
This is why Russia can't win even if the could somehow conquer the country too much of the country is now united against them.



Also completely agree with this.


Meanwhile in Enerhodar (location of Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant) a Russian soldier fires warning shots into the air and the crowd doesn't move an inch. The Russians end up fleeing in their ancient van.



But at least it was nice of them to drop by.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #7815 on: March 20, 2022, 02:06:56 PM »
Wait, six generals now? I'm starting to lose count.
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Torie
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« Reply #7816 on: March 20, 2022, 02:11:51 PM »
This currency guy on Al Jazerra said ultimately, Russia's problem is that "no one" wants to get caught doing business with Russia or facilitating the evading of sanctions. Crypto will be sanctioned if it is used. So whatever the bite of sanctions, they really can't be evaded much.
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Storr
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« Reply #7817 on: March 20, 2022, 02:17:04 PM »
Quote from: Filuwaúrdjan on March 20, 2022, 02:06:56 PM
Wait, six generals now? I'm starting to lose count.

(Note: The Chechen Rosgvardya guy is mostly likely dead, the Kaydriovites would have had his face all over their TikTok if has was alive. They simply refuse to confirm he's dead.)

Lieutenant General Andrey Nikolaevich Mordvichev, Commander, 8th Combined Arms Army, Southern Military District (killed Mar 16)

Major General Andrei Sukhovetsky, Deputy Commander, 41st Combined Arms Army, Central Military District (killed Feb 28)

Major General Vitaly Gerasimov, Chief of Staff , 41st Combined Arms Army, Central Military District (killed Mar 8 )

Major General Andrei Kolesnikov, Commander, 29th Combined Arms Army, Eastern Military District (killed Mar 11)

Major General Oleg Mitayev, Commander, 150th Motorized Division (Novocherkassk) (killed Mar 15)

Chechen general Magomed Tushayev, 141st Rosgvardia Chechen Guard (disputed Mar 1)
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Gass3268
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« Reply #7818 on: March 20, 2022, 02:22:41 PM »
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urutzizu
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« Reply #7819 on: March 20, 2022, 02:32:59 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/mar/20/saudi-aramco-to-increase-oil-production-to-meet-global-demand

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Saudi Aramco to increase oil production to meet global demand

Aramco expects demand for oil to keep climbing, and said “substantial new investment” is required to meet this demand, in a move likely to dismay climate campaigners.

It said it is increasing its capital expenditure for 2022 by about half to between $40 and $50bn, with further growth expected until the middle of the decade. The state-owned oil firm’s capital expenditure came in just below $32bn in 2021, an 18% increase on 2020.

Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates have been asked in recent days by western governments to pump more oil to end their reliance on supplies from Russia.

The Gulf countries are the only two leading oil producers that have immediate spare capacity able to offset the shortfall in Russian-produced energy

After Germany agrees LNG deal with Qatar, Saudi Aramco agrees to boost production after Boris and Macron meeting with MBS and Poland, Czech and Lithuania sell rights to Saudi Aramco allowing them supply to Orlen refineries to replace Rosneft. US should be grateful for Europe, which didn't buy into to Democratic party anti-Gulf virtue signaling. Saudi and Emirati leaders refusing Biden phone call despite him begging, but Europe saves his ass in the midterms now.
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Storr
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« Reply #7820 on: March 20, 2022, 02:38:29 PM »
Quote from: Filuwaúrdjan on March 20, 2022, 02:06:56 PM
Wait, six generals now? I'm starting to lose count.


I found the names on this list: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/thfqt9/list_of_deadcaptured_russian_officers_march_17/

Just looking at colonel, major, and captain officer losses, it's clear the VDV has been decimated (VDV officers bolded).

Colonels/Lieutenant Colonels:
 
Colonel Viktor Ivanovich Isaikin (killed Mar 2)

Colonel Konstantin Ogiy, Head of Kemerovo SOBR unit, Rosgvardiya (killed Feb 28)

Colonel Konstantin Zizevski, 247th Guards Air Assault Regiment (killed Mar 5)

Colonel Sergey Karasev, Commander, 31st Guards Air Assault Brigade (Ulyanovsk) (Killed Mar 11)

Colonel Andrei Zakharov, Battalion-tactical group Commander, 6th Tank Regiment (Chebarkul) , 90th Tank division (killed Mar 10) (given Order of Courage in 2016)

Colonel Sergei Sukharev, Commander, 331st VDV Guards Airborne Regiment (Kostroma), 98th Airborne Division (killed Mar 17)

Colonel Igor Nikolaev, Commander, 3rd Motor Rifle Division (Valuyki) (killed Mar 16)

Colonel Ruslan Rudnev, Commander, 120th Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment (Donma) (Pilot, Su-34?, killed Mar 1, given Order of Courage)

Colonel Sergei Ivanovich Porokhnya, Commander, 12th Engineering Brigade (killed)

Colonel Nikolai Ovcharenko, Head of Engineer Troops, Western Military District (killed)

Navy Captain (1st Rank) Andrey Nikolaevich Paliy, Deputy Commander, Black Sea Fleet (killed)

Lieutenant Colonel Yuri Agarkov, Commander, 33rd Motorized Rifle Regiment. (killed Mar Cool

Lieutenant Colonel Dmitry Sofronov, Commander of the 61st Separate Marine Brigade of the Russian Armed Forces, (killed Mar 5)

Lieutenant Colonel Denis Glebov, Deputy Commander of the 11th Separate Airborne Assault Brigade (killed Mar 5, given Order of Courage)

Lieutenant Colonel Okruzhnov Alexander Nikolaevich, Head of Artillery, 104th VDV Regiment, 76th Airborne Division (killed Mar 7)

Lieutenant Colonel Alexey Narzullaevich Khasanov, Deputy Commander, 31st Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment (pilot, Su-30SM, killed Mar 5)

Lieutenant Colonel Oleg Chervov, Deputy Commander, Aviation Regiment (Voronezh) (Pilot, Su-25, killed Mar 7)

Lieutenant Colonel Renat Gaisin (killed)

Lieutenant Colonel Sergey Savvateev, Deputy Commander, SOBR unit (Vladimir), Rosgvardiya (killed)

Majors:

Major Andrei Petrovich Burlakov, Deputy Chief of Staff of the Russian Secret Service, Chief of Intelligence of Regiment, Rosgvardia (killed Mar 10)

Major Ruslan Leonov, Spetsnaz company commander (killed Mar 10)

Major Alexei Ilnitsky, deputy battalion commander, VDV 11th Air Assault Brigade (Ulan-Ude) (killed, given Order of Courage)

Major Bezborodov Dmitry Valeryevich, Rosgvardiya battalion commander (killed)

Major Vorsyuchenko Alexey Vasilyevich, VDV Unit #81430 HQ, 76th Airborne SAM Regiment (killed)

Major Dmity Bezborodov Bezzhizninski, Operational Battalion Commander, Rosgvardia (killed)

Major Alexander Sergeevich Fedorov, Chief of Communications and Deputy Chief of Staff of Unit #47130, 103rd Rocket Brigade (Ulan-Ude, Divizionnaya station) (killed Mar 15)

Major Ruslan Vladimirovich Petrukhin, Deputy Commander, 38th Separate Guards Motorized Rifle Brigade, 35th Army, Eastern Military District (killed Mar 11)

Major Sergei Krylov, Deputy Commander, 331st VDV Guards Airborne Regiment (Kostroma), 98th Airborne Division (killed Mar 17)

Major Sergey Vladimirovich Kashansky, GRU/GU 24th SpetsNaz Brigade? (killed)

Major Dmitry Bukatin, 336th Guards Naval Infantry Brigade (Baltiysk, Kaliningrad) (killed)

Major Patskalev Oleg Mikhailovich, Deputy Commander, 2nd Battalion, 331st VDV Guards Airborne Regiment (Kostroma), 98th Guards Airborne Division (killed)

Captains:

Captain Maklagin Vyacheslav Vyacheslavovich (killed Feb 25, given Order of Courage)

Captain Aleksey Aleksandrovich Chuchmanov, GRU/GU 3rd SpetsNaz Brigade (Tolyatti) (killed Mar 3, 2022)

Captain Yevgeny Ivanov, platoon commander, Russian 247th Guards Assault Caucasian Cossack Regiment (killed)

Captain Sergei Aleksandrovich Visyach (killed)

Captain Alexey Glushchak, GRU/GU 22nd Spetsnaz Brigade (killed, given Order of Courage)

Captain Ilya Kuptsov, VDV 76th Air Assault Division, Intelligence Department (Pskov) (killed)

Captain Ivan Sergeevich Afanasyev (Pilot, Ka-52?, killed)

Captain Radzhabov Rabazan Gasainievich (Pilot, killed)

Captain Emelyanchik Sergei Stanislavovich (Pilot, Mi-28n?, killed Mar 4)

Captain Alexander Vladimirovich Shokun, Chief of Communications, VDV 11th Guards Air Assault Brigade (Ulan-Ude) (killed)

Captain Nikitin Alexey Nikolaevich, 1141st Guards Artillery Regiment, 7th VDV Guards Mountain Air Assault Division (Novorossiysk) (killed)
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Storr
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« Reply #7821 on: March 20, 2022, 02:45:08 PM »
Quote from: Gass3268 on March 20, 2022, 02:22:41 PM


It looks like they got ambushed:



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ugabug
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« Reply #7822 on: March 20, 2022, 02:59:42 PM »
Quote from: Storr on March 20, 2022, 02:45:08 PM
Quote from: Gass3268 on March 20, 2022, 02:22:41 PM


It looks like they got ambushed:




Doubt they're going to get a lot of volunteers to replace him with.
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« Reply #7823 on: March 20, 2022, 03:01:55 PM »
There was even a case in the beginning of the invasion where a pro-Russia mayor of a city in eastern Ukraine expressed support for the invasion and called the Russians "liberators", and was then attacked and killed by a mob. Anyone who stands with Russia here is going to face a fate similar to that of collaborationists in post-WWII France.
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« Reply #7824 on: March 20, 2022, 03:09:43 PM »
Sorry if this street interview has already been posted. Pretty sure the interviewees are speaking Russian
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