Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[It’s so Joever]

The US has recently reiterated its stance of being staunchly opposed to Poland's plan to send fighter jets to Ukraine.

Meanwhile, Russia is proceeding with its civilian shelling and war crimes, this time by bombing a maternity ward and children's hospital in Mariupol, killing three, including a minor: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60675599.

Biden and Stoltenberg should at the very least delineate some red lines, instead of repeatedly and sternly insisting that no matter what, NATO won't even give Ukraine some jets, allowing Putin full free reign here.

They would rather let a genocide happen than have to grow a spine.

[Sir Mohamed]

War crime apologia is always vile but seeing an official embassy account engage in it is on another level.

https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/1501913563073556498
https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/1501916418245279746
https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/1501919224201158656

Tbh, if I was prez and PM of a country and Russian embassy did this, I'd declare the responsible as persona non grata or just close the embassy alltogether. We don't need diplomatic facilities abused for propaganda purposes on behalf of war criminals.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

So I was just skimming through the Russia invades Georgia thread we had and it reminded me that that invasion took place around the same time as an Olympics in Beijing.  Weird heh?

The Crimea annexation and start of the Donbas war were right after the Sochi games too. Something about the Olympics gets Putin extra bloodthirsty.

[dead0man]

next time we should just let Russia win more medals and maybe that's how we appease him?

[GeorgiaModerate]

So I was just skimming through the Russia invades Georgia thread we had and it reminded me that that invasion took place around the same time as an Olympics in Beijing.  Weird heh?

The obvious conclusion here is that the Olympics must never again be scheduled in Beijing.

[afleitch]

So I was just skimming through the Russia invades Georgia thread we had and it reminded me that that invasion took place around the same time as an Olympics in Beijing.  Weird heh?

The Crimea annexation and start of the Donbas war were right after the Sochi games too. Something about the Olympics gets Putin extra bloodthirsty.

There's probably, psychologically, something in that tbh.

The Sochi opening ceremony way quite good (and the most expensive) with a tableau of 'Russian', Russian history that ended in 1991. Nothing representing anything later. Nothing pop culture related that you found in London.

From the restoration of the anthem, the continued use of the symbols, even the Soviet style usage of the term 'fascists' that Putin uses clearly suggests he thinks Russia hasn't had any distinct and symbolic identity since 1991. I think that may even include some self loathing of his own place in that during the past 30 years.

[Sir Mohamed]

So I was just skimming through the Russia invades Georgia thread we had and it reminded me that that invasion took place around the same time as an Olympics in Beijing.  Weird heh?

The obvious conclusion here is that the Olympics must never again be scheduled in Beijing.

Yup, though should never have been for other reasons already. It's a horrible policy to prop up authoritarian regimes and dictatorships with sports events. But since IOC and others are corrupt through and through... well.

[7,052,770]

the guy who I think coined the word "woke," Ross Douthat.

This has to be some kind of joke, but I just don't get it

It was not meant as a joke.

https://www.heritage.org/progressivism/heritage-explains/woke-corporate-capitalism

Oh, "woke capitalism."

"Woke" has been a word for nearly 100 years

[LabourJersey]

So I was just skimming through the Russia invades Georgia thread we had and it reminded me that that invasion took place around the same time as an Olympics in Beijing.  Weird heh?

The Crimea annexation and start of the Donbas war were right after the Sochi games too. Something about the Olympics gets Putin extra bloodthirsty.

I think it might be an extreme example of how nationalist sentiment ramps up during an Olympics (and to think it was originally designed to combat nationalism!)

[ugabug]

https://twitter.com/YWNReporter/status/1501913452796907533

[Torie]

So I was just skimming through the Russia invades Georgia thread we had and it reminded me that that invasion took place around the same time as an Olympics in Beijing.  Weird heh?

The obvious conclusion here is that the Olympics must never again be scheduled in Beijing.

Yup, though should never have been for other reasons already. It's a horrible policy to prop up authoritarian regimes and dictatorships with sports events. But since IOC and others are corrupt through and through... well.

I have posted more than once that I believe that the Olympics need to be divorced from nationalism and national teams, or shut down. Their ratings are going down the toilet anyway, so it is not as if my opinion is two standard deviations from the mean or anything.

[Torrain]

Madison Cawthorn calls Ukraine government 'evil,' Zelensky 'a thug'
 "Remember that Zelenskyy is a thug," Cawthorn said in a video obtained by WRAL. "Remember that the Ukrainian government is incredibly corrupt and is incredibly evil and has been pushing woke ideologies."

The “GOP’s AOC” has a less than nuanced take on this situation. Truly the Party of Lincoln Putin.

[brucejoel99]

Madison Cawthorn calls Ukraine government 'evil,' Zelensky 'a thug'
 "Remember that Zelenskyy is a thug," Cawthorn said in a video obtained by WRAL. "Remember that the Ukrainian government is incredibly corrupt and is incredibly evil and has been pushing woke ideologies."

The “GOP’s AOC” has a less than nuanced take on this situation. Truly the Party of Lincoln Putin.

Makes sense: Cawthorn is being primaried & Zelenskyy is super unpopular in the U.S. right now... right?

Oh, wait:

https://mobile.twitter.com/baseballot/status/1500933941322256384

[Stranger in a strange land]

So back in the early Cold War, the US needed to get its hands on a MiG-15 to test its capabilities so it launched the aptly-named "Operation Moolah" to offer $100K to any Eastern Bloc pilot who would defect with one. A Polish pilot flew his plane to Denmark in early 1953 and received a bounty, plus political asylum in the UK and later the US: he lived in Pennsylvania until his death and owned a valve factory and a race track. A few weeks after the end of the Korean War, a North Korean pilot, who claimed to be unware of Moolah, defected with his MiG and got the 100K.

Maybe we could offer something similar for Russian pilots, tankers, and SAM/electronic warfare operators? We know their morale isn't great and their command is more than transparent that it doesn't give a sh[inks] about them. At this point, one million dollars plus political asylum in the Western Country of your choice if you defect with your vehicle or aircraft, or 100K plus political asylum for yourself and your immediate family if you desert, surrender, and turn over your weapons. For sure cheaper than actually fighting, plus we know that Russian conscripts aren't enthusiastic about the War (which surprised me, I really expected they'd do a better job indoctrinating them), and we know that many young Russians want to move to the West.

[Torie]

I like that idea. And it has the virtue of having been done before, so there is precedent. Calm down Putin. You can offer 100k to American pilots to defect to Russia in return. Oh wait, we are talking about dollars rather than rubles aren't we?

[kwabbit]

Russia has now likely lost more troops than the US did in Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1501860795843416068

Would be huge, though I'm still skeptical. Ukrainian figures are most likely an exaggeration to boost their fighting moral. Didn't the US estimate Russian losses at around 4k 2-3 days ago? Seems more plausible to me.

Anyway, it speaks volumes how Putin is ready to send his soldiers to death for his delusional Greater Russia fantasies.

6k dead is a lot in a modern war, but the Soviets did lose 8.7 Million in WWII. The sacrifice endured in World War II, which for Russians and Slavs was truly a war for survival as a people, is extremely important to Russian identity. Correspondingly, the sacrifice of lives to preserve Russia is a major national ethos. Anyone in Russia who views the war as important to Russia's security and future isn't blinking an eye.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Madison Cawthorn calls Ukraine government 'evil,' Zelensky 'a thug'
 "Remember that Zelenskyy is a thug," Cawthorn said in a video obtained by WRAL. "Remember that the Ukrainian government is incredibly corrupt and is incredibly evil and has been pushing woke ideologies."

The “GOP’s AOC” has a less than nuanced take on this situation. Truly the Party of Lincoln Putin.

"Woke ideologies" like...[checks notes] mass mobilization driven by intense civic nationalism with a vague residual blood and soil component? lol okay. He's probably just mad it's only vague and residual.

[pppolitics]

Russia has now likely lost more troops than the US did in Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1501860795843416068

Would be huge, though I'm still skeptical. Ukrainian figures are most likely an exaggeration to boost their fighting moral. Didn't the US estimate Russian losses at around 4k 2-3 days ago? Seems more plausible to me.

Anyway, it speaks volumes how Putin is ready to send his soldiers to death for his delusional Greater Russia fantasies.

6k dead is a lot in a modern war, but the Soviets did lose 8.7 Million in WWII. The sacrifice endured in World War II, which for Russians and Slavs was truly a war for survival as a people, is extremely important to Russian identity. Correspondingly, the sacrifice of lives to preserve Russia is a major national ethos. Anyone in Russia who views the war as important to Russia's security and future isn't blinking an eye.

The average Russian clearly don't see the invasion of Ukraine as essential to the survival of Russia.

That's why Putin is trying to hide it from the Russian public as much as possible.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1501577368049176584

What’s he alluding to at the end, about people seemingly trying for separate negotiations or something like that?

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

So back in the early Cold War, the US needed to get its hands on a MiG-15 to test its capabilities so it launched the aptly-named "Operation Moolah" to offer $100K to any Eastern Bloc pilot who would defect with one. A Polish pilot flew his plane to Denmark in early 1953 and received a bounty, plus political asylum in the UK and later the US: he lived in Pennsylvania until his death and owned a valve factory and a race track. A few weeks after the end of the Korean War, a North Korean pilot, who claimed to be unware of Moolah, defected with his MiG and got the 100K.

Maybe we could offer something similar for Russian pilots, tankers, and SAM/electronic warfare operators? We know their morale isn't great and their command is more than transparent that it doesn't give a sh[inks] about them. At this point, one million dollars plus political asylum in the Western Country of your choice if you defect with your vehicle or aircraft, or 100K plus political asylum for yourself and your immediate family if you desert, surrender, and turn over your weapons. For sure cheaper than actually fighting, plus we know that Russian conscripts aren't enthusiastic about the War (which surprised me, I really expected they'd do a better job indoctrinating them), and we know that many young Russians want to move to the West.

The Ukrainians have already made, and are maintaining, this exact offer for anyone who can give them a Russian aircraft.

[ugabug]

Here's a interview with the retired former general of the 7th army that's well worth a watch if you have 40 minutes to spare.

He talk's about the entire kerfuffle around the Polish jets to why he thinks Ukraine will win in the end and why he thinks a possible attack on Odessa would be a mistake.

[Stranger in a strange land]

Russia has now likely lost more troops than the US did in Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1501860795843416068

Would be huge, though I'm still skeptical. Ukrainian figures are most likely an exaggeration to boost their fighting moral. Didn't the US estimate Russian losses at around 4k 2-3 days ago? Seems more plausible to me.

Anyway, it speaks volumes how Putin is ready to send his soldiers to death for his delusional Greater Russia fantasies.

6k dead is a lot in a modern war, but the Soviets did lose 8.7 Million in WWII. The sacrifice endured in World War II, which for Russians and Slavs was truly a war for survival as a people, is extremely important to Russian identity. Correspondingly, the sacrifice of lives to preserve Russia is a major national ethos. Anyone in Russia who views the war as important to Russia's security and future isn't blinking an eye.

The average Russian clearly don't see the invasion of Ukraine as essential to the survival of Russia.

That's why Putin is trying to hide it from the Russian public as much as possible.

I'll also note here that in the modern world, with its lower birthrates, higher dependency ratios, and need for labor with unique skills rather than just more-or-less interchangeable factory or farm workers, the value of a working-age citizen to a State is MUCH higher than it was in the early or mid 20th century.

[Mehmentum]

Keep in mind we've had visual confirmation of about half of of the Russian equipment losses Ukraine is claiming.  I'm sure they're overestimating for effect, but not *that* much.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Madison Cawthorn calls Ukraine government 'evil,' Zelensky 'a thug'
 "Remember that Zelenskyy is a thug," Cawthorn said in a video obtained by WRAL. "Remember that the Ukrainian government is incredibly corrupt and is incredibly evil and has been pushing woke ideologies."

The “GOP’s AOC” has a less than nuanced take on this situation. Truly the Party of Lincoln Putin.

I presume that the issue for Cawthorn is that Zelensky is Jewish.

[Badger]

NR is very anti Putin and pro Ukraine but in an editorial writes:

Say No to  No Fly Zone

https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/03/say-no-to-a-no-fly-zone/#slide-1

The rag's coverage of the war I have found to be excellent FWIW.

And CNN has a video of a young Russian man who lives in Ukraine and has been bombed, but his Dad in Russia does not believe him - the Russian propaganda is that effective. So the young man has started a movement to have sons and daughters in Ukraine call their parents back home to get the word out.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/03/09/russia-propaganda-ukraine-war-vladimir-putin-newday-vpx.cnn

 I have to on this rare rare occasion agree with the national review. But it just underscores the necessity of providing those jets to Ukraine.