Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread
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Author Topic: Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread  (Read 931149 times)
It’s so Joever
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« Reply #6325 on: March 07, 2022, 10:50:57 PM »


Really doesn’t look like it’ll go anywhere soon. Various Polish officials hum and haw but their Prime Minister (not the President) keeps saying no. Psaki talks up the Biden administration’s work on the matter while suggesting it’s incredibly complicated:
NATO seems kind of dysfunctional. You have to wonder if an invocation of Article 5 would be first met by days of legalistic deliberation over what it really meant in context.

This is my big fear. If it's taking them this long to accomplish this when literally everyone wants it to happen, I can't imagine how incompetent they'd be at launching a counterattack. Not to mention the best time to supply Ukraine with more fighters was weeks ago, so we're already crazy late no matter how fast we move now. Things like this, where the international community fumbles around like idiots while Putin fearlessly commits hundreds of war crimes per day, is a perfect example of why Putin thought he could get away with invading Ukraine in the first place. What Western leaders/NATO members don't understand is that Putin only understands violence/military action and he will walk over anyone who shows such reluctance to use force when necessary. They haven't gotten it through their thick skulls that diplomacy will not work with him.
Careful or you will be branded as someone who wants nuclear war.
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It’s so Joever
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« Reply #6326 on: March 07, 2022, 11:00:14 PM »

The Russians have reached Brovary, an Eastern Kyiv suburb. With the Russians now controlling areas East and west of Kyiv, a full encirclement of the city is looking more and more likely. Wxpect the very worst of Russia’s load to hit Kyiv if the encirclement does succeed. It could easily make Kharkiv and Mariupol look like child’s play.

Further East, Russian media is reporting that the city of Izium has been captured. *If* true, this would be a huge problem for the Ukrainian forces in Luhansk Oblast, and they would either have to go into full retreat or risk encirclement.
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NOVA Green
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« Reply #6327 on: March 07, 2022, 11:04:38 PM »

Australia finally starting to contribute:

"New sanctions on Russia as Australia seeks to counter Ukraine invasion misinformation

Australia has hit Russia with another round of sanctions targeting senior military officers, as well as state propagandists spreading "pro-Kremlin disinformation".

The list includes six senior Russian military commanders "responsible for implementing naval, ground and air attacks on Ukraine" as well as Vladimir Putin's press secretary Dmitry Peskov, the director of information for Russia's Foreign Ministry Maria Zakharova, and Russians affiliated with state efforts to legitimise the invasion.

On top of that the government has directly sanctioned the Russian armed forces, which will prohibit the export of any Australian goods to entities which supply the Russian military.

Foreign Minister Marise Payne said the unusual decision to target those amplifying Russian narratives justifying the invasion "recognises the powerful impact that disinformation and propaganda can have in conflict
".

...."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-08/australia-sanction-russia-disinformation-de-nazification-ukraine/100891128

"Live updates: Australian missiles “on the ground” in Ukraine

SYDNEY — Australia’s prime minister has described Russia and China’s closer relationship as opportunistic rather than strategic.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison on Monday labeled the alliance an “Arc of Autocracy” and said Russia and China would prefer a new world order to the one that has been place since World War II.

Morrison has criticized Beijing’s failure to condemn Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and China’s expansion of trade in Russian wheat while other countries are imposing sanctions.

Australia last week promised Ukraine $50 million in missiles, ammunition and other military hardware to fight Russian invaders.

Morrison said on Monday: “Our missiles are on the ground now
.” "

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-vladimir-putin-spacex-volodymyr-zelenskyy-business-807f67dcf116559d2646abb7ed851ca9

"Australia places more sanctions on Russia

....

The Australian government is also working with Facebook, Twitter and Google to suspend content by Russian state media in Australia, said the statement.

“Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has been accompanied by a widespread disinformation campaign,” the statement said, criticizing Russian President Vladimir Putin's efforts to create “a world characterized by lies and disinformation
”.

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-07-22/h_5768bca8ac2be9d15d898b90db552f40

"How the Russia's invasion of Ukraine could spark a boom for Australian wheat and energy exports - especially if Vladimir Putin shuts off gas to Europe"

*** THIS IS THE "DAILY FAIL SO TAKE WITH HUGE SHAKERS OF SALT ***

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10587701/How-Ukraine-invasion-spark-economic-boom-Australia.html


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President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
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« Reply #6328 on: March 07, 2022, 11:12:45 PM »

First Germany rearming, now Japan is setting the political foundation for recovering the Kuril Islands. Let's gooo!


There will certainly be no better time to retake (either through a bilateral agreement or military action) the Kurils than now.
I didn't see this one coming. Wow.
I would guess PM Kishida looked at Japanese public opinion in regards to the Ukraine crisis and decided this was a good move on that basis.

This was an unnecessary distraction.  He would have been better off keeping his head down and not making any territorial claims. 

Not sure what I think about this move. Most likely rationale is that he might be betting on a weakened Russia down the line having to cut a deal with Japan.
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NOVA Green
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« Reply #6329 on: March 07, 2022, 11:16:45 PM »

South Korea now banning Russian financial transactions per 1 hr ago from the WSJ:

"South Korea Bans Transactions With Russia’s Central Bank

South Korea has joined the U.S. and the European Union in banning transactions with Russia's central bank and sovereign wealth funds, toughening sanctions following the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

South Korean transactions with the Bank of Russia as well as the National Wealth Fund of the Russian Federation and the Russian Direct Investment Fund should stop beginning Tuesday, the finance ministry said late Monday. The country also plans to join the EU in blocking Russian banks from the Swift global interbank network starting at 8 a.m. local time on March 13, the ministry added.

The ministry also said it added Rossiya Bank to the South Korean sanctions list. Seven other Russian banks already had been added to the list since March 1. South Korea last week decided to ban its public and financial institutions from trading with any sanctioned Russian banks and in new Russian government bonds.

The country also pledged to restrict its exports of strategic and nonstrategic items to Russia.

South Korean banks' exposure to Russia is estimated at $1.47 billion. South Korea has also set aside 2 trillion won ($1.62 billion) in emergency aid for local businesses affected by the Russian-Ukraine conflict
. "


https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-03-07/card/south-korea-bans-transactions-with-russia-s-central-bank-96B5xib2OW41u03krYrp
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Storr
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« Reply #6330 on: March 07, 2022, 11:17:35 PM »
« Edited: March 07, 2022, 11:21:47 PM by Storr »

About that...



Excellent response (and light trolling?) from the Ukrainian Ambassador to the UN:

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Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.
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« Reply #6331 on: March 07, 2022, 11:18:16 PM »
« Edited: March 07, 2022, 11:21:58 PM by UKRAINE IS GAME TO YOU??? »

First Germany rearming, now Japan is setting the political foundation for recovering the Kuril Islands. Let's gooo!


There will certainly be no better time to retake (either through a bilateral agreement or military action) the Kurils than now.

What a way to claim the moral high ground against what you call an unjustified irrendentist invasion, by launching an unjustified irrendentist invasion against Russia. Never mind the fact that it would be a terrible geopolitical move as it raises the dormant scepter of Japanese imperialism which is still in living memory and hated in the region and risks having South Korea join Russia and China as they hold an island (Dokdo) similarly claimed by Japan.

Is this really the only development from today you consider worthy of remark? I don't even necessarily disagree with you on this particular topic, but wow.

Other than Wang Yi offering to mediate in the conflict which I regard as a bit of virtue signaling, this is probably the news most relevant for China today. While Japanese imperialism remains a threat to China if it wakes from dormancy, it is intriguing to think about the prospect of a China-South Korea alliance, shredding into ruins the American strategy for East Asia.

The war is not taking place in China, which, in any case, can always just start indiscriminately shelling Japanese cities, repeatedly breaking ceasefires, and threatening other countries with World War III if they intervene if it feels too fweatened by the big scawy archipelago off its seaboard. That is, after all, how your preferred kind of nuclear power behaves in disputes with non-nuclear neighbors.
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« Reply #6332 on: March 07, 2022, 11:23:18 PM »


this is my field, I find this hilarious
Can't they just use encrypted phones that still run off local networks or something? Sounds like a laughable own goal. Like I'd expect random African countries' militaries to be able to handle this.
Yes, they can.  They just have to encrypt the signal, which one assume they'd be good at.  Even if it's old Soviet era gear that western security peeps can easily decrypt, it still (probably) wouldn't be "hacked" by civilians.  I can't imagine how they have zero ways to communicate securely with "HQ".  Even an ancient tele-type system would be better than just using a burner phone like they seem to be.
That's what I thought. Even Mexican drug cartels are able to do that to some level. Meanwhile Russian military communications are being livestreamed by randos ok the Internet.
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« Reply #6333 on: March 07, 2022, 11:28:01 PM »

Broke: The virgin, weak, flaccid jokes that are Russian soldiers as evidenced by their repeated ownings.

Woke: These bad ass ladies.


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NOVA Green
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« Reply #6334 on: March 07, 2022, 11:45:04 PM »

More complex version of Russian-Ukrainian relations from Odessa, and perhaps indicative of what Russian troops might face as an occupying army in the future courtesy of The Economist:

Sorry don't want to overquote.... Sad

"Odessa finds its Ukrainian identity ahead of a Russian advance

But some continue to look both ways

NEON SIGNS advertising oysters and sparkling wine speak of an era that ended abruptly on the morning of February 24th, when Vladimir Putin launched his invasion of Ukraine. The Odessa Food Market on Richelievska Street was once a place of hipsters and flat whites. For 12 days now, it has served as a logistical hub for the war effort. It’s a hive of activity, with dozens of yellow-jacketed volunteers buzzing between the market’s two floors. They sort donations—from food rations and medicine to tampons and shampoo—onto shelves ready to be taken to the front lines. Time may be of the essence, they say. So far the city has been spared violence, though there have been some attacks in its surrounding region. But on March 6th President Volodymyr Zelensky warned of intelligence indicating an imminent rocket-led attack on Ukraine’s third city.

Odessa, a cosmopolitan port founded in 1794 by Catherine the Great on the coast of the Black Sea, would be a big prize for Mr Putin. The city is both a strategic military prize and an important commercial centre. It has huge symbolic value, too: it holds a treasured place in Russia’s history and culture. Odessa featured prominently in Mr Putin’s rambling speech of February 21st, which laid the ground for the invasion. He specifically mentioned the events of May 2nd 2014, when 48 mostly pro-Russian protesters died in the city after clashes with Ukrainian nationalists. It appears that Mr Putin believed that his invasion would find support among the local population. But if it was a debatable proposition then, it is much harder to believe today.

The city, like the food market, has been transformed by war. From an unsentimental place reluctant to take sides, it is now adorned in yellow and blue. Ukrainian flags fly from every street corner, from cars, from apartments. The city’s diverse populations—intellectuals, gangsters, artists, workers—are pulling together ahead of the expected attack. Young volunteers pack sandbags at the beach. Engineers at the tram depot make anti-tank “hedgehogs” from old bits of rail. Some of these barricades have been installed on Deribasovskaya Street, Odessa's central boulevard, and around the nearby opera house and municipal buildings. As bloggers have noted, the scene has more in common with black-and-white prints from the second world war than it does with the reality of just two weeks ago.

Odessa’s heroic struggle against Nazi barbarism—the city lived through a siege, occupation and the mass murder of its Jews—has become a galvanising memory. It is being invoked in the most unexpected of quarters. Gennadiy Trukhanov, the city’s bruiser of a mayor, a man long accused of rooting for Russia, tells The Economist that he believes Mr Putin’s men are “behaving like fascists”. The indiscriminate bombing of residential districts and churches in Kharkiv and Mariupol in the Russian-speaking east is unforgivable, he says. The ferocity of the attacks has shattered any previous illusions he might have had. Mr Putin has become drunk on power and fame. “He seems to think he has supernatural powers.”

The invasion has united most strands of Odessa’s usually fractious politics. Mr Trukhanov not only finds himself acting in unison with political opponents, but also with the city’s usually disapproving intellectuals. They express mild bewilderment at the alliance. Speaking at his bungalow on the outskirts of the city, Boris Khersonsky, a writer and poet, argues that the mayor’s patriotic realignment was partly situational—”Authenticity and Trukhanov do not always go together,” he says—and partly reflects a genuine shift in the Russian-speaking population. Even before February 24th, Odessans were turning their back on Russia, put off by its draconian laws, the banning of free speech, and by “a time machine that only goes backwards”. After 12 days of war, the poet predicts, they will not be waiting for Mr Putin's soldiers with flowers
.

...."





https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/03/07/odessa-finds-its-ukrainian-identity-ahead-of-a-russian-advance
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It’s so Joever
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« Reply #6335 on: March 07, 2022, 11:53:54 PM »

More complex version of Russian-Ukrainian relations from Odessa, and perhaps indicative of what Russian troops might face as an occupying army in the future courtesy of The Economist:

Sorry don't want to overquote.... Sad

"Odessa finds its Ukrainian identity ahead of a Russian advance

But some continue to look both ways

NEON SIGNS advertising oysters and sparkling wine speak of an era that ended abruptly on the morning of February 24th, when Vladimir Putin launched his invasion of Ukraine. The Odessa Food Market on Richelievska Street was once a place of hipsters and flat whites. For 12 days now, it has served as a logistical hub for the war effort. It’s a hive of activity, with dozens of yellow-jacketed volunteers buzzing between the market’s two floors. They sort donations—from food rations and medicine to tampons and shampoo—onto shelves ready to be taken to the front lines. Time may be of the essence, they say. So far the city has been spared violence, though there have been some attacks in its surrounding region. But on March 6th President Volodymyr Zelensky warned of intelligence indicating an imminent rocket-led attack on Ukraine’s third city.

Odessa, a cosmopolitan port founded in 1794 by Catherine the Great on the coast of the Black Sea, would be a big prize for Mr Putin. The city is both a strategic military prize and an important commercial centre. It has huge symbolic value, too: it holds a treasured place in Russia’s history and culture. Odessa featured prominently in Mr Putin’s rambling speech of February 21st, which laid the ground for the invasion. He specifically mentioned the events of May 2nd 2014, when 48 mostly pro-Russian protesters died in the city after clashes with Ukrainian nationalists. It appears that Mr Putin believed that his invasion would find support among the local population. But if it was a debatable proposition then, it is much harder to believe today.

The city, like the food market, has been transformed by war. From an unsentimental place reluctant to take sides, it is now adorned in yellow and blue. Ukrainian flags fly from every street corner, from cars, from apartments. The city’s diverse populations—intellectuals, gangsters, artists, workers—are pulling together ahead of the expected attack. Young volunteers pack sandbags at the beach. Engineers at the tram depot make anti-tank “hedgehogs” from old bits of rail. Some of these barricades have been installed on Deribasovskaya Street, Odessa's central boulevard, and around the nearby opera house and municipal buildings. As bloggers have noted, the scene has more in common with black-and-white prints from the second world war than it does with the reality of just two weeks ago.

Odessa’s heroic struggle against Nazi barbarism—the city lived through a siege, occupation and the mass murder of its Jews—has become a galvanising memory. It is being invoked in the most unexpected of quarters. Gennadiy Trukhanov, the city’s bruiser of a mayor, a man long accused of rooting for Russia, tells The Economist that he believes Mr Putin’s men are “behaving like fascists”. The indiscriminate bombing of residential districts and churches in Kharkiv and Mariupol in the Russian-speaking east is unforgivable, he says. The ferocity of the attacks has shattered any previous illusions he might have had. Mr Putin has become drunk on power and fame. “He seems to think he has supernatural powers.”

The invasion has united most strands of Odessa’s usually fractious politics. Mr Trukhanov not only finds himself acting in unison with political opponents, but also with the city’s usually disapproving intellectuals. They express mild bewilderment at the alliance. Speaking at his bungalow on the outskirts of the city, Boris Khersonsky, a writer and poet, argues that the mayor’s patriotic realignment was partly situational—”Authenticity and Trukhanov do not always go together,” he says—and partly reflects a genuine shift in the Russian-speaking population. Even before February 24th, Odessans were turning their back on Russia, put off by its draconian laws, the banning of free speech, and by “a time machine that only goes backwards”. After 12 days of war, the poet predicts, they will not be waiting for Mr Putin's soldiers with flowers
.

...."





https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/03/07/odessa-finds-its-ukrainian-identity-ahead-of-a-russian-advance
Anyway to get around the paywall?
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lfromnj
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« Reply #6336 on: March 08, 2022, 12:03:49 AM »



Surrender in a few hours to be expected.
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NOVA Green
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« Reply #6337 on: March 08, 2022, 12:13:31 AM »

More complex version of Russian-Ukrainian relations from Odessa, and perhaps indicative of what Russian troops might face as an occupying army in the future courtesy of The Economist:

Sorry don't want to overquote.... Sad

"Odessa finds its Ukrainian identity ahead of a Russian advance

But some continue to look both ways


*** SNIP *** "

https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/03/07/odessa-finds-its-ukrainian-identity-ahead-of-a-russian-advance


Anyway to get around the paywall?

For The Economist?

Extremely doubtful since  basically has been a longstanding weekly UK Magazine, well before the days of digital media.

Believe I bought a three month subscription just the other day for a total of $30, which includes both digital plus weekly magazine delivery.

Don't recall what the digital only subscription would have cost, but considering my wife had to talk me out of a Financial Times digital only subscription, believe it was relatively inexpensively priced.

I used to read the Economist on a weekly basis way back in the days of Iraq War 2.0, and quite frankly the quality of their reporting is such that it's likely worth paying for in just a digital format, even if you don't want to wait to see their newest edition in your local library.

Something about war and peace that makes me purchase high quality news coverage. Sad
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compucomp
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« Reply #6338 on: March 08, 2022, 12:19:04 AM »

First Germany rearming, now Japan is setting the political foundation for recovering the Kuril Islands. Let's gooo!


There will certainly be no better time to retake (either through a bilateral agreement or military action) the Kurils than now.

What a way to claim the moral high ground against what you call an unjustified irrendentist invasion, by launching an unjustified irrendentist invasion against Russia. Never mind the fact that it would be a terrible geopolitical move as it raises the dormant scepter of Japanese imperialism which is still in living memory and hated in the region and risks having South Korea join Russia and China as they hold an island (Dokdo) similarly claimed by Japan.

Is this really the only development from today you consider worthy of remark? I don't even necessarily disagree with you on this particular topic, but wow.

Other than Wang Yi offering to mediate in the conflict which I regard as a bit of virtue signaling, this is probably the news most relevant for China today. While Japanese imperialism remains a threat to China if it wakes from dormancy, it is intriguing to think about the prospect of a China-South Korea alliance, shredding into ruins the American strategy for East Asia.

The war is not taking place in China, which, in any case, can always just start indiscriminately shelling Japanese cities, repeatedly breaking ceasefires, and threatening other countries with World War III if they intervene if it feels too fweatened by the big scawy archipelago off its seaboard. That is, after all, how your preferred kind of nuclear power behaves in disputes with non-nuclear neighbors.

I'm not the one that suggested Japan start an unprovoked border dispute/irrendentist war against Russia, which is apparently a popular sentiment since the post has 10 recommends.
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Storr
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« Reply #6339 on: March 08, 2022, 12:21:39 AM »

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« Reply #6340 on: March 08, 2022, 01:20:45 AM »

40 Years since the Letter and there is still no push for world peace.
https://bangordailynews.com/2022/03/03/news/maine-girl-who-questioned-us-soviet-war-a-celebrity-after-40-years-joam40zk0w/
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dead0man
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« Reply #6341 on: March 08, 2022, 01:21:34 AM »


they are also the most trained and most experienced.
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« Reply #6342 on: March 08, 2022, 01:29:23 AM »

Some Russian officials think invading Ukraine was 'a mistake' and are 'discouraged, frightened,' and 'making apocalyptic forecasts,' report says

Farida Rustamova is an independent Russian journalist who once worked for the BBC Russian Service as well as Meduza and RBC TV (a 24-hour business news channel in Russia) who has since fled the country, though before she did so she had access to the powerbrokers in Moscow including government officials and members of the Duma:

And here is the English translation of her article posted to a blog:

What Russian Officials Think of the Invasion of Ukraine
A senior banker is "in mourning." Some members of parliament are thinking of giving up their seats. A translation of Farida Rustamova's insider report.

Quote
By the outbreak of the war, the Russian political space had been wiped clean to the extent that is possible. In the depths of their souls, officials and legislators may disagree with the decisions of their leaders — but only in the depths of their souls. There are very few left who can contradict him out loud, directly to his face.

The official comments high-ranking officials are making during the war are uniform and echo what President Putin said when the war was declared: "Russia was left with no other choice," "our army is liberating the Ukrainian people from the oppression of nationalists," and so on.

In reality, the attitude toward the war within the corridors of power is ambiguous. I came to this conclusion after speaking with several members of parliament and officials at various levels. Many of them are discouraged, frightened, and are making apocalyptic forecasts. Andrei Kostin [head of the largely state-owned VTB Bank] is "in mourning." Some Duma members are thinking of giving up their seats. Two days before Putin announced the start of the "special operation," one of my most ‘in-the-know’ friends thought that it wouldn’t come to war, because war wouldn't benefit anybody. I see that officials, deputies, and even journalists at government outlets who have left their posts are relieved that they no longer have anything to do with this, and are speaking out against the war.

Without any moral judgment of what my interlocutors are saying, I’ve decided to share what I’ve observed as an impartial journalist.
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« Reply #6343 on: March 08, 2022, 02:00:31 AM »


they are also the most trained and most experienced.
Which reminds me of the idiotic common armchair general take online from people who are convinced that Putin just sent "cannon fodder" or weak troops first and is holding back the big guns until later.

This is both obviously not true per evidence and horrendously idiotic military strategy, like even dumber than what Russia has done so far which saying a lot. It makes no sense whatsoever outside of movies and TV shows as a way to build tension and cause later drama or as a strategy maybe in some real time strategy video games...but that's now how the real world or real military strategy works. Especially when the initial goal was to "shock and awe" the country into submission and then occupy it in two weeks.

At this point, I doubt that Russia even has Ukraine significantly outnumbered if at all, pretty much the entire Ukrainian military is there in addition to the civilians joining up and fighting back and Russia's already deployed 95% of the available troops, Russia could send in more but again people forget this isn't a video game, the troops can't be mobilized and magically appear at the front lines, Russia is huge and the transportation will take time and resources, which normally wouldn't be a major issue but Russia is unable to keep a convoy fueled to hit Kiev. Also this is usually a point in a movie where the villain sends in the really evil, nasty and dreaded forces...except Russia already did that by dispatching Chechen death squads to kill Zelenskyy and other Ukrainian officials, and the Ukrainians absolutely curbstomped them. It's tough to imagine that Putin has any insidious tricks up his sleeve.
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« Reply #6344 on: March 08, 2022, 02:20:38 AM »

The Russian warship the Snake Island defenders told to go f[inks] yourself to is now destroyed: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10586145/Cheering-Ukrainian-navy-hits-Russian-war-ship-Black-Sea-Odessa.html

(Sorry about the Daily Mail... anyone got another source?)
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« Reply #6345 on: March 08, 2022, 02:34:30 AM »

The Russian warship the Snake Island defenders told to go f[inks] yourself to is now destroyed: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10586145/Cheering-Ukrainian-navy-hits-Russian-war-ship-Black-Sea-Odessa.html

(Sorry about the Daily Mail... anyone got another source?)

This is so incredibly awesome if true.
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« Reply #6346 on: March 08, 2022, 02:59:42 AM »

More complex version of Russian-Ukrainian relations from Odessa, and perhaps indicative of what Russian troops might face as an occupying army in the future courtesy of The Economist:

Sorry don't want to overquote.... Sad

"Odessa finds its Ukrainian identity ahead of a Russian advance

But some continue to look both ways

NEON SIGNS advertising oysters and sparkling wine speak of an era that ended abruptly on the morning of February 24th, when Vladimir Putin launched his invasion of Ukraine. The Odessa Food Market on Richelievska Street was once a place of hipsters and flat whites. For 12 days now, it has served as a logistical hub for the war effort. It’s a hive of activity, with dozens of yellow-jacketed volunteers buzzing between the market’s two floors. They sort donations—from food rations and medicine to tampons and shampoo—onto shelves ready to be taken to the front lines. Time may be of the essence, they say. So far the city has been spared violence, though there have been some attacks in its surrounding region. But on March 6th President Volodymyr Zelensky warned of intelligence indicating an imminent rocket-led attack on Ukraine’s third city.

Odessa, a cosmopolitan port founded in 1794 by Catherine the Great on the coast of the Black Sea, would be a big prize for Mr Putin. The city is both a strategic military prize and an important commercial centre. It has huge symbolic value, too: it holds a treasured place in Russia’s history and culture. Odessa featured prominently in Mr Putin’s rambling speech of February 21st, which laid the ground for the invasion. He specifically mentioned the events of May 2nd 2014, when 48 mostly pro-Russian protesters died in the city after clashes with Ukrainian nationalists. It appears that Mr Putin believed that his invasion would find support among the local population. But if it was a debatable proposition then, it is much harder to believe today.

The city, like the food market, has been transformed by war. From an unsentimental place reluctant to take sides, it is now adorned in yellow and blue. Ukrainian flags fly from every street corner, from cars, from apartments. The city’s diverse populations—intellectuals, gangsters, artists, workers—are pulling together ahead of the expected attack. Young volunteers pack sandbags at the beach. Engineers at the tram depot make anti-tank “hedgehogs” from old bits of rail. Some of these barricades have been installed on Deribasovskaya Street, Odessa's central boulevard, and around the nearby opera house and municipal buildings. As bloggers have noted, the scene has more in common with black-and-white prints from the second world war than it does with the reality of just two weeks ago.

Odessa’s heroic struggle against Nazi barbarism—the city lived through a siege, occupation and the mass murder of its Jews—has become a galvanising memory. It is being invoked in the most unexpected of quarters. Gennadiy Trukhanov, the city’s bruiser of a mayor, a man long accused of rooting for Russia, tells The Economist that he believes Mr Putin’s men are “behaving like fascists”. The indiscriminate bombing of residential districts and churches in Kharkiv and Mariupol in the Russian-speaking east is unforgivable, he says. The ferocity of the attacks has shattered any previous illusions he might have had. Mr Putin has become drunk on power and fame. “He seems to think he has supernatural powers.”

The invasion has united most strands of Odessa’s usually fractious politics. Mr Trukhanov not only finds himself acting in unison with political opponents, but also with the city’s usually disapproving intellectuals. They express mild bewilderment at the alliance. Speaking at his bungalow on the outskirts of the city, Boris Khersonsky, a writer and poet, argues that the mayor’s patriotic realignment was partly situational—”Authenticity and Trukhanov do not always go together,” he says—and partly reflects a genuine shift in the Russian-speaking population. Even before February 24th, Odessans were turning their back on Russia, put off by its draconian laws, the banning of free speech, and by “a time machine that only goes backwards”. After 12 days of war, the poet predicts, they will not be waiting for Mr Putin's soldiers with flowers
.

...."





https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/03/07/odessa-finds-its-ukrainian-identity-ahead-of-a-russian-advance
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« Reply #6347 on: March 08, 2022, 03:53:42 AM »

More complex version of Russian-Ukrainian relations from Odessa, and perhaps indicative of what Russian troops might face as an occupying army in the future courtesy of The Economist:

Sorry don't want to overquote.... Sad

"Odessa finds its Ukrainian identity ahead of a Russian advance

But some continue to look both ways

NEON SIGNS advertising oysters and sparkling wine speak of an era that ended abruptly on the morning of February 24th, when Vladimir Putin launched his invasion of Ukraine. The Odessa Food Market on Richelievska Street was once a place of hipsters and flat whites. For 12 days now, it has served as a logistical hub for the war effort. It’s a hive of activity, with dozens of yellow-jacketed volunteers buzzing between the market’s two floors. They sort donations—from food rations and medicine to tampons and shampoo—onto shelves ready to be taken to the front lines. Time may be of the essence, they say. So far the city has been spared violence, though there have been some attacks in its surrounding region. But on March 6th President Volodymyr Zelensky warned of intelligence indicating an imminent rocket-led attack on Ukraine’s third city.

Odessa, a cosmopolitan port founded in 1794 by Catherine the Great on the coast of the Black Sea, would be a big prize for Mr Putin. The city is both a strategic military prize and an important commercial centre. It has huge symbolic value, too: it holds a treasured place in Russia’s history and culture. Odessa featured prominently in Mr Putin’s rambling speech of February 21st, which laid the ground for the invasion. He specifically mentioned the events of May 2nd 2014, when 48 mostly pro-Russian protesters died in the city after clashes with Ukrainian nationalists. It appears that Mr Putin believed that his invasion would find support among the local population. But if it was a debatable proposition then, it is much harder to believe today.

The city, like the food market, has been transformed by war. From an unsentimental place reluctant to take sides, it is now adorned in yellow and blue. Ukrainian flags fly from every street corner, from cars, from apartments. The city’s diverse populations—intellectuals, gangsters, artists, workers—are pulling together ahead of the expected attack. Young volunteers pack sandbags at the beach. Engineers at the tram depot make anti-tank “hedgehogs” from old bits of rail. Some of these barricades have been installed on Deribasovskaya Street, Odessa's central boulevard, and around the nearby opera house and municipal buildings. As bloggers have noted, the scene has more in common with black-and-white prints from the second world war than it does with the reality of just two weeks ago.

Odessa’s heroic struggle against Nazi barbarism—the city lived through a siege, occupation and the mass murder of its Jews—has become a galvanising memory. It is being invoked in the most unexpected of quarters. Gennadiy Trukhanov, the city’s bruiser of a mayor, a man long accused of rooting for Russia, tells The Economist that he believes Mr Putin’s men are “behaving like fascists”. The indiscriminate bombing of residential districts and churches in Kharkiv and Mariupol in the Russian-speaking east is unforgivable, he says. The ferocity of the attacks has shattered any previous illusions he might have had. Mr Putin has become drunk on power and fame. “He seems to think he has supernatural powers.”

The invasion has united most strands of Odessa’s usually fractious politics. Mr Trukhanov not only finds himself acting in unison with political opponents, but also with the city’s usually disapproving intellectuals. They express mild bewilderment at the alliance. Speaking at his bungalow on the outskirts of the city, Boris Khersonsky, a writer and poet, argues that the mayor’s patriotic realignment was partly situational—”Authenticity and Trukhanov do not always go together,” he says—and partly reflects a genuine shift in the Russian-speaking population. Even before February 24th, Odessans were turning their back on Russia, put off by its draconian laws, the banning of free speech, and by “a time machine that only goes backwards”. After 12 days of war, the poet predicts, they will not be waiting for Mr Putin's soldiers with flowers
.

...."





https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/03/07/odessa-finds-its-ukrainian-identity-ahead-of-a-russian-advance
Anyway to get around the paywall?
Pay for it.
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pppolitics
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« Reply #6348 on: March 08, 2022, 06:55:59 AM »

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« Reply #6349 on: March 08, 2022, 06:57:28 AM »
« Edited: March 08, 2022, 07:07:48 AM by pppolitics »


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