Afghan government collapse.

[CumbrianLefty]

Starting to wonder how wise Biden was to stay that it wasn’t going to end up like Saigon in ‘75.

Biden is absolutely correct but maybe not in the way he meant. The Vietnam war was cheaper and South Vietnam lasted a couple of years  after we pulled out.

Only because the North didn't start their assault until they felt fully ready (and were confident the US wouldn't meaningfully re-enter the war again if they did)

Once it happened, the Southern collapse was almost as swift and total as we are seeing here.

[Ferguson97]

We should accept as many refugees from Afghanistan as we can — I support the decision to withdrawal, but we cannot leave the civilians out in the cold.

[°Leprechaun]

What lesson(s) will (or will not) be learned from all this?
It's hard to say until we see what happens next.

I hope more people will learn not to start a war without an exit strategy, or perhaps even
not to start a war at all. There are obviously other ways to deal with a bad regime than war,
the one that comes to mind is embargo. How other countries deal with Afghanistan now and in the future is key. The US doesn't have good relations with countries like Russia, China, and Iran.

The mission of the UN is (or should be) securing a more peaceful world.
How has that worked?

We need a Department of Peace. I know that that idea is not popular, of course.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Worth pointing out that this version of the Taliban is very different from the original in some important ways: they're much more comfortable with the idea of modern governance (there has even been some deeply strange bragging of late about how taxes on businesses are lower in Taliban controlled districts) and even with the concept of 'foreign relations' as something that extends beyond talking to ISI bagmen every so often. They are still spectacularly nasty bastards of course. I suspect that most of this shift is generational.

Particularly grim humour came from their recent deals with China, where they promised to ban Uighur foreign fighters or mention that affair at all in return for Chinese support. They really have learnt from their patrons!

[Benjamin Frank]

The population of Afghanistan is only 40 million.  Time is obviously an issue, but the west could easily get the 'best and brightest' Afghanis out over several months.  I think Canada could easily take 50,000 Afghan refugees and immigrants.

This is especially true for the Afghani women.  The Taliban don't want them, and I think most Canadians would welcome them with open arms. That's a win-win.

40 million isn't exactly small; indeed it's 37th out of 190something.

Nobody is suggesting getting them all out. I meant that it's possible to get the 'best and the brightest' out since there are only 40 million in total.

Are the Republicans going to start fearmongering over possible terrorists again, that one death is too many?

[The Free North]

The population of Afghanistan is only 40 million.  Time is obviously an issue, but the west could easily get the 'best and brightest' Afghanis out over several months.  I think Canada could easily take 50,000 Afghan refugees and immigrants.

This is especially true for the Afghani women.  The Taliban don't want them, and I think most Canadians would welcome them with open arms. That's a win-win.

So basically steal all of the intellectual resources from the country which will set them even further back from the rest of the world? What type of neo-colonialist nonsense is that?

First of all, what makes you think you have the right to do such a thing and second what makes you think Canadians want 50,000 Afghanis just dumped in their country? Incredibly arrogant policy, my lord.....

[Benjamin Frank]

The population of Afghanistan is only 40 million.  Time is obviously an issue, but the west could easily get the 'best and brightest' Afghanis out over several months.  I think Canada could easily take 50,000 Afghan refugees and immigrants.

This is especially true for the Afghani women.  The Taliban don't want them, and I think most Canadians would welcome them with open arms. That's a win-win.

So basically steal all of the intellectual resources from the country which will set them even further back from the rest of the world? What type of neo-colonialist nonsense is that?

First of all, what makes you think you have the right to do such a thing and second what makes you think Canadians want 50,000 Afghanis just dumped in their country? Incredibly arrogant policy, my lord.....

1.Yes, the Taliban has no interest in intellectual resources anyway. Why should they go to waste?

2.Canadians by and large were very supportive of taking 40,000 Syrian refugees 6 years ago.  

3.On this 'colonialism' nonsense. 
A.The Taliban aren't coming in through a popular vote with Constitutional safeguards for minority rights.
B.The best evidence suggests this is Pakistani colonialism behind the Taliban.

[Cassius]

I suspect that the Taliban are interested in retaining at least some ‘intellectual resources’, given that a Taliban ruled Afghanistan will still require doctors, engineers, jurists, finance people etc etc. On the other hand, the problem faced by most Western countries at the moment is arguably an overabundance of ‘intellectual resources’, ie graduates who cannot find work commensurate to the qualifications that they have received. Rather than exacerbating this problem (in the long term) by taking in the intellectual cast offs of Afghanistan, a better policy would be to redirect currently un and underemployed domestic graduates into graduate fields (medicine, engineering et al) where the demand cannot currently be met purely from domestic sources.

[Benjamin Frank]

I suspect that the Taliban are interested in retaining at least some ‘intellectual resources’, given that a Taliban ruled Afghanistan will still require doctors, engineers, jurists, finance people etc etc. On the other hand, the problem faced by most Western countries at the moment is arguably an overabundance of ‘intellectual resources’, ie graduates who cannot find work commensurate to the qualifications that they have received. Rather than exacerbating this problem (in the long term) by taking in the intellectual cast offs of Afghanistan, a better policy would be to redirect currently un and underemployed domestic graduates into graduate fields (medicine, engineering et al) where the demand cannot currently be met purely from domestic sources.

1.The Afghani people owe nothing to the Taliban. In a dictatorship, the only way people can express their opinion is by voting with their feet.

2.I realize there are dislocations for individuals and time lags, but immigration is not an economic zero sum game.  Economic myths die hard.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

I suspect that the Taliban are interested in retaining at least some ‘intellectual resources’, given that a Taliban ruled Afghanistan will still require doctors, engineers, jurists, finance people etc etc. On the other hand, the problem faced by most Western countries at the moment is arguably an overabundance of ‘intellectual resources’, ie graduates who cannot find work commensurate to the qualifications that they have received. Rather than exacerbating this problem (in the long term) by taking in the intellectual cast offs of Afghanistan, a better policy would be to redirect currently un and underemployed domestic graduates into graduate fields (medicine, engineering et al) where the demand cannot currently be met purely from domestic sources.

I don't think you realize but the Taliban are on living like it's the middle ages. They don't need doctor's, already have their religious scholars to serve as jurist nor do they care much if the infrastructure falls into despair. Their theocratic views reject any mordernization they aren't forced to accept by nesseciaty like mobile phones or weapons.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

The population of Afghanistan is only 40 million.  Time is obviously an issue, but the west could easily get the 'best and brightest' Afghanis out over several months.  I think Canada could easily take 50,000 Afghan refugees and immigrants.

This is especially true for the Afghani women.  The Taliban don't want them, and I think most Canadians would welcome them with open arms. That's a win-win.

So basically steal all of the intellectual resources from the country which will set them even further back from the rest of the world? What type of neo-colonialist nonsense is that?

First of all, what makes you think you have the right to do such a thing and second what makes you think Canadians want 50,000 Afghanis just dumped in their country? Incredibly arrogant policy, my lord.....

The Taliban have made it quite clear what their view on education is espeicaly that of the female gender. They deserve to be protected.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Truly fantastic news. Very excited for the future of Afghanistan under secure, clean, stable, and development orientated government.

To stick a further eye in the monstrous empire that raped their mation for two decades, I hope the Taliban officially declares victory/independence on September 11, 2021, so the rest of the world can celebrate 9/11 each year as a day of independence from imperialism.

I'm sorry sir, but under the South Park rule, 9/11 jokes are not acceptable until 12/29/2023 at 11:10 PM EST. I'm going to have to write you a ticket, which you may challenge in court.

I don't make the rules, I just copy them from TV and the internet.

[Cassius]

I suspect that the Taliban are interested in retaining at least some ‘intellectual resources’, given that a Taliban ruled Afghanistan will still require doctors, engineers, jurists, finance people etc etc. On the other hand, the problem faced by most Western countries at the moment is arguably an overabundance of ‘intellectual resources’, ie graduates who cannot find work commensurate to the qualifications that they have received. Rather than exacerbating this problem (in the long term) by taking in the intellectual cast offs of Afghanistan, a better policy would be to redirect currently un and underemployed domestic graduates into graduate fields (medicine, engineering et al) where the demand cannot currently be met purely from domestic sources.

I don't think you realize but the Taliban are on living like it's the middle ages. They don't need doctor's, already have their religious scholars to serve as jurist nor do they care much if the infrastructure falls into despair. Their theocratic views reject any mordernization they aren't forced to accept by nesseciaty like mobile phones or weapons.

I mean, there were doctors in the Middle Ages (obviously nothing like today but hey ho). But that aside, even under the original incarnation of the Taliban regime doctors continued to practice and I would expect no less today. There is no doubt that opportunities for women will be curtailed in a Taliban dominated Afghanistan; nonetheless, the Taliban needs (and clearly has the support of at least some) educated people in order to produce some sort of workable regime. There are plenty of examples of countries run by Islamic fundamentalists that nonetheless churn out huge numbers of doctors, lawyers, engineers etcetera, and there’s no reason to expect that a stable (and this is the key factor), theocratic Afghanistan would be any different.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

It's a pretty discomforting suggestion to say that we should save the best and brightest as if there is a hierarchy of humanity worthy of being saved based on intelligence.

[GALeftist]

Honestly, I do not support Biden's withdrawal and think we maybe ought to move back in. If that makes me an imperialist, so be it, but I prefer that to Taliban rule.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

If Biden can successfully turn the end of this horrible, pointless war into some sort of ‘Peace Dividends’ drawback of the military he will continue to impress me. Hell, even with a modest strategic reorientation to the Asia-Pacific that really needs to happen.

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

Honestly, I do not support Biden's withdrawal and think we maybe ought to move back in. If that makes me an imperialist, so be it, but I prefer that to Taliban rule.

Without significant foreign policy changes (and I'm not talking about troop surges here), the occupation could only have delayed Taliban rule. In Rojava and many other places with frozen conflicts or low-level insurgencies, that is an acceptable compromise because it is a relatively bloodless delay. Not so in Afghanistan - Western casualties dropped, but it consistently remained one of the world's bloodiest wars which claimed tens of thousands of Afghan lives every year. The human cost that probably exceeded the cost of a Taliban government.

[°Leprechaun]

It is worth remembering that Barbara Lee of California was the only member of Congress to vote against the bill authorizing the use of military force.

Was she right to vote the way that she did?

[President Johnson]

I wasn't around in 1975 when Vietnam fell, but it sure feels like that.

Germany also announced to pull back embassy personell after our foreign minister stated a Taliban government wouldn't get "a single dime" from us.

https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1426259783632539651

[Meclazine for Israel]

Well, the 20th anniversary of September 11 is going to be interesting.

[jaichind]

This clearly is going to end badly for USA but I continue to back Biden on this.  This is pretty much the only issue I prefer Biden to Trump.  Trump talked a good game and at least had some talks with the Taliban but only Biden made the call to pull out and end this disaster once and for all.

[Suburbia]

It is worth remembering that Barbara Lee of California was the only member of Congress to vote against the bill authorizing the use of military force.

Was she right to vote the way that she did?

Absolutely and the crazy white working class people who threatened her in Fall of 2001 over that should be ashamed of themselves

[Bootes Void]

The Taliban is going to celebrate the 20th anniversary of 9/11 arent they?

Unless if the fight in Kabul is still going on during that time while the foreign militaries holds off the Taliban advance to get as many people out of there as possible

[StateBoiler]

Has there been a good piece/comment on why the Afghan forces have fallen so quickly? I read that the Army tend to rout or give up a lot quicker than the police do, as the latter are locals and have more of a stake.

Other than e.g. issues with the government's weak to limited legitimacy and so on, one issue is that at a tactical level they have been entirely reliant on a) significant Western air support and b) the maintenance of much of the expensive Western kit they've been given by Western technical experts.

At one point in time the State Department were considering buying used Russian helicopters to give to the Afghans due to their military had more historical knowledge working on Soviet equipment. Not long after I heard this rumor, the dozen or so Russian spies operating on U.S. soil were arrested and that probably helped put the kibosh on that occurring.

[Continential]

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