Biden infrastructure/tax increase megathread

[MR DARK BRANDON]

Yea that’s cool and all but when will this be voted on

[jaichind]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-03/democrats-eye-enlarging-minimum-tax-to-counter-salt-expansion

Democrats Eye Enlarging Minimum Tax to Counter SALT Expansion

So the new plan is to raise AMT and remove/raise the SALT cap.  The main idea is still how to raise taxes on high-income people in low tax red states but not raise them in high tax blue states.

[Morning in Atlas]

Both must pass rather than only infrastructure. Democrats need to get this right, even if it takes a little longer.

Don't bother with this clown, Pericles. He's against BBB.

Progressives keep saying this like it's some kind of "gotcha I win" argument. Whether we're for or against BBB, it still doesn't excuse at all the fact that BIF is held hostage to it. I've said this repeatedly and will say it again. The progressive "negotiation tactic" is irrational and backed by the idea that progressives really are crazy enough to vote down a bill they support. This is no way to get stuff done. The BIF needs to pass ASAP.

Of course, Biden was not responsible for T-Mac's poor campaign (false flag tiki torch LOL) but as some other posters have pointed out, T-Mac had nothing going for him nationally and so was left to throw stuff against the wall and couldn't get anything to stick. If the BIF were passed, T-Mac would have had a good talking point in his favor and maybe he could have saved himself.

You're opposing the strategy that passes BBB. Therefore, you, Liam, and pp oppose BBB.

Hard to grasp?

[jaichind]

New SALT idea: Some Dem senators want to remove SALT cap for people below $400K.  Of course, this defeats the main point of retaining high-income people in high tax blue states.

[Pres Mike]

Americans won't care when it is finally passed either. They will be ungrateful for the few positive things that are even in this bill and more, especially those without families, will oppose it because they don't personally, tangibly get anything out of it.

You forgot the infrastructure bill. If it fulfills its promise, just about every person in the US will be positively affected. Even those who ride helicopters around still need helipads and airports to be well maintained. No, it wouldn't have solved inflation and supply chain issues nor ended the pandemic, but it would have given Democrats a solid talking point in their favor that would have won over some voters. Not passing it was a disaster and progressives are 100% to blame for it.

In a way this statement is indicative of why we're in this state with the BBB/BIF in the first place; in order to justify their own irrational negotiating tactics, progressives convinced themselves that the BIF was useless and that the BBB was the only thing that mattered, which is just completely wrong.

I acknowledge that the BIF will benefit every American. But the average American will never know the actual benefits unless they work in the construction industry.

If a road has holes in it, they expect the city to fix it. The average American doesn't know nor care if a the funding came from a federal grant from BIF.

The BBB was the thing that the average voter would "notice". Paid leave, free pre-k, child care, etc.

The reason Obamacare was unpopular in its early years was because it took too long to get started. And the initial benefits were for the lower classes. It took a while for the average American to know the benefits of it

[It’s so Joever]

We need to dominate THE NARRATIVE. Forget policy in 2022, we need to dominate the narrative.

[pppolitics]

After Manchin and Sinema cost the Democrats Virginia last night (maybe long-term if they are able to pass voting restrictions there), the least they can do it quickly pass BBB and limit the damage. We need a really strong and united party for the entire next year. No more infighting!

Manchin and Sinema already voted for the infrastructure bill.

It's the so-called "progressives" in the House holding the bill hostage.

[Del Tachi]

After last night's thumping, the smart thing for Democrats to do would be to drop the Sanders-Pelosi agenda, pass the bipartisan Senate infrastructure plan, and recalibrate to win some bipartisan victories going into 2022.  The Virginia defeat gives Biden an opening to say no to the left, taking it may be the only way to salvage his presidency.

[KaiserDave]

I (and Democrats should) care about the contents of the agenda and the effect it will be have the country. Electoral ramifications are secondary.

[pppolitics]

This isn't a shred of evidence that holding the infrastructure bill hostage and digging in is a winning strategy, yet the "progressive" fools in the House keep doing it.

Not surprisingly, yesterday shows the opposite.

[emailking]

After Manchin and Sinema cost the Democrats Virginia last night (maybe long-term if they are able to pass voting restrictions there), the least they can do it quickly pass BBB and limit the damage. We need a really strong and united party for the entire next year. No more infighting!

Manchin and Sinema already voted for the infrastructure bill.

It's the so-called "progressives" in the House holding the bill hostage.

Is it holding it hostage if they're just against it? I don't think all of the Dems are a yes on that bill in a vacuum.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

This isn't a shred of evidence that holding the infrastructure bill hostage and digging in is a winning strategy, yet the "progressive" fools in the House keep doing it.

Not surprisingly, yesterday shows the opposite.

My understanding that they've folded earlier this week, no?

[pppolitics]

After Manchin and Sinema cost the Democrats Virginia last night (maybe long-term if they are able to pass voting restrictions there), the least they can do it quickly pass BBB and limit the damage. We need a really strong and united party for the entire next year. No more infighting!

Manchin and Sinema already voted for the infrastructure bill.

It's the so-called "progressives" in the House holding the bill hostage.

Is it holding it hostage if they're just against it? I don't think all of the Dems are a yes on that bill in a vacuum.

The House leadership should have taken the infrastructure bill to an up and down vote.

Let it be known who are these "progressives" who are against the infrastructure bill.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

After Manchin and Sinema cost the Democrats Virginia last night (maybe long-term if they are able to pass voting restrictions there), the least they can do it quickly pass BBB and limit the damage. We need a really strong and united party for the entire next year. No more infighting!

Manchin and Sinema already voted for the infrastructure bill.

It's the so-called "progressives" in the House holding the bill hostage.

Is it holding it hostage if they're just against it? I don't think all of the Dems are a yes on that bill in a vacuum.

Are they against it, or just don't think, it's enough?

[emailking]

The House leadership should have taken the infrastructure bill to an up and down vote.

Let it be known who are these "progressives" who are against the infrastructure bill.

Ok if you're saying the leadership is holding it hostage I think there might be an argument there. But the progressives were willing to have the vote. I don't see how they're holding it hostage.

[pppolitics]

This isn't a shred of evidence that holding the infrastructure bill hostage and digging in is a winning strategy, yet the "progressive" fools in the House keep doing it.

Not surprisingly, yesterday shows the opposite.

My understanding that they've folded earlier this week, no?

Too late. Should have been months ago when there was enough time to pass the bill.

[emailking]

After Manchin and Sinema cost the Democrats Virginia last night (maybe long-term if they are able to pass voting restrictions there), the least they can do it quickly pass BBB and limit the damage. We need a really strong and united party for the entire next year. No more infighting!

Manchin and Sinema already voted for the infrastructure bill.

It's the so-called "progressives" in the House holding the bill hostage.

Is it holding it hostage if they're just against it? I don't think all of the Dems are a yes on that bill in a vacuum.

Are they against it, or just don't think, it's enough?

I think they're against it, but willing to vote for it as a compromise if they get the other bill.

[pppolitics]

The House leadership should have taken the infrastructure bill to an up and down vote.

Let it be known who are these "progressives" who are against the infrastructure bill.

Ok if you're saying the leadership is holding it hostage I think there might be an argument there. But the progressives were willing to have the vote. I don't see how they're holding it hostage.

Pelosi was going to put the infrastructure bill for an up and down vote, but pulled it the last minute because of opposition from the so-called "progressives".

She should have followed through.

[emailking]

Pelosi was going to put the infrastructure bill for an up and down vote, but pulled it the last minute because of opposition from the so-called "progressives".

She should have followed through.

Yes. So stop saying over and over and over again, at least 50 times now, that progressives are holding it hostage.

[pppolitics]

Pelosi was going to put the infrastructure bill for an up and down vote, but pulled it the last minute because of opposition from the so-called "progressives".

She should have followed through.

Yes. So stop saying over and over and over again, at least 50 times now, that progressives are holding it hostage.

They are holding it hostage.

Pelosi just chickened out.

The vote should have been held so we know how many of the so-called "progressives" are against the infrastructure bill.

...put them all on record

Their constituents can then put them on full blast.

[😥]

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1455919933473308679?t=396LVk2J_dlEz_mlUbpdAA&a...

Well, if Democrats continue to play this ing game that has been going on for months, and no matter who does it, Manchin or Jayapal, they will have no chance of winning in 2022, and therefore in 2024. And moreover, what is the worst, in that case they will deserve to lose midterms and Presidency

[KaiserDave]

I've read the 4 Week Plan was actually really really bad, so maybe it's for the best. We need to get a deal soon, this cannot drag on. I have given Biden a lot of leeway, but eventually he starts to take some more of the blame for this slowing down to a crawl.

[jojoju1998]

Oh God.

[jaichind]

The way I would solve this impasse would be a single-round sudden death sealed bid auction.

Manchin, Sinema, and the Dem Progressives would be each asked: write down your best possible offer on BBB plan and put that box

All three will be told that if the 3 offers cannot generate an intersection set of policies then BIF and BBB dies ASAP and there will be no vote for either bill.

We will open the box and see if the 3 offers can generate a set of policies that can be in BBB.  If yes that intersection set of policies becomes the BBB bill to be voted on ASAP.  If not then this is the end of this entire affair and both BIF and BBB die.

Both sides seem to think time is on their side when it is on neither.

[Del Tachi]

I (and Democrats should) care about the contents of the agenda and the effect it will be have the country. Electoral ramifications are secondary.

That's ideologically-motivated social engineering, not how you govern in a pluralistic democracy.

Biden campaigned on an infrastructure package.  19 Republican senators agreed on the BIP.  Passing it now (although it should have been passed months ago) has absolutely no downside for Biden; it'd be a kept promise and major bipartisan achievement.  Biden agreeing to hold it hostage for a pie-in-the-sky $3.5T entitlement bill is pure lunacy and shows how unnatural of a political operator he has always been.