Biden infrastructure/tax increase megathread

[It’s so Joever]

At this point, I am not exaggerating when I say I believe it is more likely than unlikely we either will become a right wing dictatorship similar to Russia today, have a brutal civil war, or actually socialist (In the USSR sense, not what dumb boomercons call socialist)
Even if Democrats (the only ones who are still somewhat trying to preserve a Liberal Republic) do by some miracle retain power, eventually people will rise up if nothing changes.
If the Republicans win ever (and they probably will), well don’t expect free elections ever, or at least not until the regime is toppled (likely causing a civil war as well)
Liberal Democracy in the Us is not sustainable at this current pace, and the only way we could have let it from falling apart was through pushing a bold economic platform AND voting rights. Now that it’s clear neither of those will happen, and this really was a very lucky chance (our true last chance was 2008 but 2020 was VERY lucky) there is only one path. It won’t be the next day, but the next few decades will be rough for America. I don’t want this, I want a prosperous Republic, but I acknowledge reality. The American Age is no more.

[KaiserDave]

I'm as angry as the next guy, but the idea that this bill "won't improve anybody's life" is pure hogwash.

[It’s so Joever]

I'm as angry as the next guy, but the idea that this bill "won't improve anybody's life" is pure hogwash.

Oh it will, but it won’t be enough, especially given perceptions of the bill at this point.

[Pres Mike]

Well, for me personally the most important things were pre-k, Obamacare subsidies and Medicaid expansion

I really wanted paid leave and climate though

Never cared for free community college because its already free for most people

But what I really want is $15, public otion, immigration and voting rights and none of that seems possible

[CookieDamage]

If policies keep getting cut and nothing gets added back in, the base will not turn out next year and probably won't be motivated in 2024.

[compucomp]

This is when we find out if the Progressive Caucus will make the right and rational decision or instead cement itself as a group of spoiled children and the mirror image of the Freedom Caucus.

https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1453516781084098564

[It’s so Joever]

If paid leave, medicare age lowering and dental, vision, hearing expansion, free community college, the signature environmental policy are out, literally what remains in the bill? No one has given a clear answer.

Can any red avatars tell me what the point of voting for Democrats is? This bill will not noticeably improve anybody's lives. Nobody is going to look at this bill and decide to reelect Democrats because of it. All this charade has accomplished is destroying Democratic enthusiasm going into the offyear gubernatorial elections and prove that the Democratic party is ridiculously incompetent, with several elected officials who are just straight up evil. I want Dems to win in 2022 and 2024, but I really can't blame laymen for looking at four years of nothing and deciding to vote red or not at all. The Democrats have done nothing to earn anybody's votes as far as I'm concerned.

The United States will fall to far-right Republican fascism and the fault lies squarely on Joe Biden and the Democratic Party. Progressives have the power to kill both of these bills and need to do asap. Punish Manchin/Sinema.

No.
The fault still is squarely on the people who vote GOP. While the root causes of this next regime will be because of the inaction of Democrats (and liberal Democracy at this point) the people who still voted the fascists in after their failed event (hmm history repeats itself here) will still be to blame.
It will be the people who will hold the stains of the brutal oppression, bloodshed, and utter mayhem of the next few decades. And they will know it. They will deny they ever did it even to themselves, but they will always know deep down they killed the country that gave so much to them through their own sheer stupidity and arrogance.

Blue avatars reading this, make your 2024 vote carefully, because it will determine whether you can fall asleep without your sins crawling up your back each night as you try to close your eyes in 2068.

[It’s so Joever]

This is when we find out if the Progressive Caucus will make the right and rational decision or instead cement itself as a group of spoiled children and the mirror image of the Freedom Caucus.

https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1453516781084098564

Manchin and Sinema have destroyed nearly everything, and the status quo is not sustainable to ANYONE with a set of functional eyes. If the Progressives hold their ground, they will be justified and right for doing so.

All the elections be d**ned, do y’all really think there will be anymore elections at this rate in the future? This is a critical moment we were never meant to have in the first place, are we going to waste it or not?

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

This is when we find out if the Progressive Caucus will make the right and rational decision or instead cement itself as a group of spoiled children and the mirror image of the Freedom Caucus.

https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1453516781084098564

At this point; passing this bill would only provide marginal improvements to the already well off to do in society, while neglecting the increasing amount of people on the fringes, and increasing the alienation they feel with our current system of government. Liberals will fall head over heels to congratulate themselves while having effectively accomplished nothing.

I genuinely hope Progressives refuse to play along and kill this monstrosity. It's counterproductive to what we need to accomplish, period.

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

https://twitter.com/RashidaTlaib/status/1453518971945242626

AYYYYYYYYYYY

[Pericles]

Don't be stupid, a bill that improves things even slightly is better than no improvement at all.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

I'd obviously prefer that something pass rather than nothing, but maybe other congressmen threatening to withdraw support could get Manchin to loosen up a bit. Call his bluff. It might not work but at this rate all that's going to be left in the bill is childcare and pre-k (A strange decision, given that universal pre-k has limited benefits, and would be far from the most impactful thing to keep if Manchin only wanted one major program in the bill).

[CookieDamage]

I'd obviously prefer that something pass rather than nothing, but maybe other congressmen threatening to withdraw support could get Manchin to loosen up a bit. Call his bluff. It might not work but at this rate all that's going to be left in the bill is childcare and pre-k (A strange decision, given that universal pre-k has limited benefits, and would be far from the most impactful thing to keep if Manchin only wanted one major program in the bill).

Agreed, Progressives should refuse to vote for a bill without paid leave

[Cashew]

This is when we find out if the Progressive Caucus will make the right and rational decision or instead cement itself as a group of spoiled children and the mirror image of the Freedom Caucus.

https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1453516781084098564

Funny how so few people in this thread can muster up a tenth of that outrage at Manchin and Sinema.

Don't be stupid, a bill that improves things even slightly is better than no improvement at all.

Again, tell that to Manchin and Sinema.

[Cashew]

Manchin and Sinema: no compromise on anything
Atlas: it is what it is.

Progressives: sets red line after dozens of compromises
Atlas: spoiled children, don't know how to legislate, resposible for killing the bill.

It if flat out perverse and shameful to see how easily y'all can get manipulated into assigning a bigger share of the blame and anger onto people who tried far harder to make the bill work.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

I'd obviously prefer that something pass rather than nothing, but maybe other congressmen threatening to withdraw support could get Manchin to loosen up a bit. Call his bluff. It might not work but at this rate all that's going to be left in the bill is childcare and pre-k (A strange decision, given that universal pre-k has limited benefits, and would be far from the most impactful thing to keep if Manchin only wanted one major program in the bill).

West Virginia already has universal pre-k.
That’s his logic, if WV does it it’s ok, everything else requires his explicit approval. That that means one of the most obvious benefits will be unnoticed by his constituents appears not to occurs to him. Joe Manchin is not a bright guy and things got out of hand.

[roxas11]

Don't be stupid, a bill that improves things even slightly is better than no improvement at all.

I 100 percent agree with this

while I get everyone's frustration I still believe that the Dems can do some good and as far as I'm cornered inaction is unacceptable

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

This is going to end up basically the same as the BIF just with "reconciliation" and "Build Back Better" pastede on yey. At best. Thanks, Mainers; thanks, Sexy Cal!

[KaiserDave]

No paid leave (really any kind), no bill. Pramila, get on it!

[Calthrina950]

Biden clearly has his shortcomings, but there's just no leverage. FDR and LBJ could depend on some bipartisan support, they didn't need to contend with the modern corporate media landscape, and they could wield primaries as a realistic threat.

Not only this, but Roosevelt and Johnson both had massive congressional majorities (filibuster proof in the Senate and 2/3rds of the House), and both had won by great landslides, earning a strong mandate from the American electorate. In contrast, Biden's congressional majorities are very narrow, and he barely defeated Trump. He doesn't have the same kind of mandate or the same level of congressional dominance which they did.

[Shadows]

Progressives should tank the bill. This can pass if Sinema agrees to the tax hikes which Manchin supports (25% Corporate, Capital Gains, Income Tax to Pre-trump levels for wealthy folks), Drug negotiations etc - The Paid leave can be managed (Manchin will be convinced).

This hog-wash billionaire tax etc will not raise 2T $. Unrealized capital gains tax is rubbish, illegal & unconstitutional - Will the government pay for unrealized losses as well?

The bill is not paid for. Neither was the Hard Infrastructure because Sinema & others don't want to raise taxes - That is the 1st red line, Build Revenue streams & then work on priorities.

Sinema has the most to lose - She is losing by 30-40% to all Primary challengers & she was the one who did the Hard Infrastructure deal. It was her signature deal & she will campaign with it in 2024 in her re-election event. Without it, everything is a total failure.

Hold it for 2-3 months if need be - Manchin, Sinema has to partially cave - Raise money for Sinema's primary & keep up the pressure on her ! (Manchin is okay - Dems don't deserve to win WV anyways). They will cave - Biden, Pelosi, Schumer will push & so will entire Dem House, Senate Caucus & every Dem politician otherwise everyone becomes a total failure & most of all Biden, Pelosi, Schumer followed by Sinema.

Progressives shouldn't fold - They can get a better deal !

[Shadows]

Progressive Caucus chair Pramila Jayapal told reporters outside the Capitol on Wednesday that over 40 members of her caucus would vote against the infrastructure bill, which has been approved by the Senate, if it came to the floor before the social spending plan is complete and agreed upon by Manchin and other Democratic holdout, Kyrsten Sinema of Arizona.


I think Pramila & the progressive will fold - The so-called left has never had a spine & have been often trampled upon so I am not expecting much.

[Shadows]

Sen. Bernie Sanders says 'the very fabric of American democracy is in danger' if progressive priorities are left out of Biden's social-spending bill


"Let me just say a few words," Sanders said. "Sometimes, when we're inside the beltway, we lose track of reality and where the American people are. "So let me repeat. The American people are very clear about what they want their government to do." He then listed progressive priorities like lowering prescription-drug costs; expanding Medicare to cover vision, hearing and dental health; taxing the rich; and addressing the climate crisis. "The challenge that we face in this really unusual moment in American history is whether we have the courage to stand with the American people and take on very powerful special interests," Sanders said. "And I'm going to do everything that I can support the president's agenda and make sure that we do just that."

"If we fail - in my view, if the American people do not believe that government can work for them and is dominated by powerful special interests, the very fabric of American democracy is in danger," he said. "People will no longer believe have faith that their government represents them. That's what this issue is about."


“Every sensible revenue option seems to be destroyed,” said Mr. Sanders. “It seems to me that almost every sensible progressive revenue option that the president wants, that the American people want, seems to be sabotaged.”

Sanders is taking a combative stand !

[MillennialModerate]

There was no one that disliked the tactics of the progressives more than me back when Bernie was running. But fair is fair… and the reality is they’ve been more then patient and more than compromising

[wbrocks67]

This sounds encouraging - like VERY encouraging. Hoping it actually works out. Sounds like they made a deal - AND that the text is ready?

WAPO: Biden to announce new social spending framework expected to win support of all Democrats

President Biden plans to announce Thursday a revised framework for his social spending plan that he expects will gain the support of all Democrats, according to multiple people with knowledge of the situation, marking a potential breakthrough moment after months of lengthy negotiations and stalled talks.

The White House plans to detail specific policies it expects to pass Congress after weeks of whittling down Biden’s agenda, according to one of the people. Democrats on Capitol Hill were preparing written details of the revamped for proposal for release on Thursday, according to the second person.

The people spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the plans on the record. The White House declined to comment.

Biden will address House Democrats Thursday morning before delivering remarks from the White House about the plan. Biden’s speech comes ahead of his planned trip to Rome later in the day to begin a pair of international summits.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-to-announce-democratic-agreement-on-social-spending-deal/2021/10/28/2781863c-37d3-11ec-91dc-551d44733e2d_story.html