DC statehood Megathread (pg 33 - Manchin questioning constitutionality)

[Jay 🏳️‍⚧️]

A thought I just had ... would there be any constitutional issues for Congress to direct the US Virgin Islands, Guam, and the Northern Mariana Islands to hold presidential elections, and to  allocate those 3 extra electoral votes to the winners of each of those 3 territories?

It's still not full equality for them, but it allows those Americans to have some say in the presidential election process, better than nothing.

No, since the 23rd Amendment permits Congress to direct the appointment of the 3 district electors however they see fit.

The amendment specifically says "District constituting the seat of the Government," which means this trick wouldn't work

[brucejoel99]

A thought I just had ... would there be any constitutional issues for Congress to direct the US Virgin Islands, Guam, and the Northern Mariana Islands to hold presidential elections, and to  allocate those 3 extra electoral votes to the winners of each of those 3 territories?

It's still not full equality for them, but it allows those Americans to have some say in the presidential election process, better than nothing.

No, since the 23rd Amendment permits Congress to direct the appointment of the 3 district electors however they see fit.

The amendment specifically says "District constituting the seat of the Government," which means this trick wouldn't work

Why wouldn't it? The amendment specifically says that "[t]he District constituting the seat of Government of the United States shall appoint [electors of President and Vice President] in such manner as the Congress may direct." Nothing therein precludes Congress from directing an unpopulated nominal "District constituting the seat of Government of the United States" to appoint each elector per the results of "presidential straw polls" in the 3 hitherto aforementioned territories. To be sure, it'd certainly be facially unorthodox, but by no means is it actually precluded by the 23rd Amendment's wording.

[7,052,770]

https://twitter.com/Meagan_Flynn/status/1397284340086845446

[OneJ]

https://twitter.com/Meagan_Flynn/status/1397284340086845446

C'mon folks let's make it happen already!

[7,052,770]

https://twitter.com/Meagan_Flynn/status/1397284340086845446

C'mon folks let's make it happen already!

They're gonna get it done. It would be so embarrassing to have all this attention and keep talking about it and have it fail in the end. If it really weren't going to happen, they would have scuttled this months ago.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

https://twitter.com/Meagan_Flynn/status/1397284340086845446

C'mon folks let's make it happen already!

They're gonna get it done. It would be so embarrassing to have all this attention and keep talking about it and have it fail in the end. If it really weren't going to happen, they would have scuttled this months ago.

Just because it’d be embarrassing doesn’t mean it won’t happen.

[7,052,770]

https://twitter.com/Meagan_Flynn/status/1397284340086845446

C'mon folks let's make it happen already!

They're gonna get it done. It would be so embarrassing to have all this attention and keep talking about it and have it fail in the end. If it really weren't going to happen, they would have scuttled this months ago.

Just because it’d be embarrassing doesn’t mean it won’t happen.

I think Biden and Schumer have demonstrated time and again that they have better political chops than that.

[_.]

BUMP

[TheReckoning]

But let’s not act like, at this point, most people aren’t willing to give a single INCH to other side.

.

On this issue, Democrats legitimately have the moral high ground, while any Republican who opposes it is being nakedly partisan. Thankfully at least DC will be settled in a few weeks.

You expect anyone to take you seriously after this blunder?

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

But let’s not act like, at this point, most people aren’t willing to give a single INCH to other side.

.

If D's get the Trifecta and win 52/48 Senate DC Statehood will be back, Sharpton is vowing to fight for the H and S

On this issue, Democrats legitimately have the moral high ground, while any Republican who opposes it is being nakedly partisan. Thankfully at least DC will be settled in a few weeks.

You expect anyone to take you seriously after this blunder?

Tester in a 52/48 Senate will break the Filibuster on VR and DC Statehood because D's need wave insurance for 2024/ and he knows that

[TheReckoning]

But let’s not act like, at this point, most people aren’t willing to give a single INCH to other side.

.

If D's get the Trifecta and win 52/48 Senate DC Statehood will be back, Sharpton is vowing to fight for the H and S

On this issue, Democrats legitimately have the moral high ground, while any Republican who opposes it is being nakedly partisan. Thankfully at least DC will be settled in a few weeks.

You expect anyone to take you seriously after this blunder?

Tester in a 52/48 Senate will break the Filibuster on VR and DC Statehood because D's need wave insurance for 2024/ and he knows that

I stand corrected.

[Mr. Smith]

Puerto Rico ought be next.

[Woody]

It's sole purpose and creation was to become the national capital where all the representatives would meet, why would a district which was specifically created to house Congress... need representation in the Congress ?? ??

Not to mention that it would be immoral. Why would such a tiny city filled with bureaucrats, feds, wealthy people, etc. have so much privilege. And saying that low-population states like Wyoming and Alaska can compared isn't right, because those states are so huge with tremendous resources with diverse cities scattered across it's landscape.

If you really want Senate representation just join Maryland or something.. don't take it out on the rest of us by ruining the balance of power.

[President Johnson]

Your arguments literally make no sense at all. Over half a million people live there, similar to the state of Wyoming. Why grant latter representation through two senators and not the people of the District of Columbia? Just because they are "wealthy" and bureaucrats"? Since when are certain demographics or professions considered more worthy of representation than others?

The district was created as such and it doesn't make sense to dissolve the city to become part of Maryland or Virginia and exclude certain government facilities either. The sole reason Republicans oppose DC Statehood is because they don't want another two Democratic senators and are happy with their overrepresentation in congress. An advantage they would still maintain with DC as a state.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

So you’re saying it’s immoral for people you don’t like to vote? Also you are literally ignore the hundreds of thousands of poor black Washingtonians that make the majority of permanent resident whose jobs have little to do with the federal government…

[brucejoel99]

And now's a perfect time to remind Woodbury that it's never too late for him to keep his word & leave the forum for a year.

[leonardothered]

*Woodbury topic*

Lol

[Former President tack50]

It's sole purpose and creation was to become the national capital where all the representatives would meet, why would a district which was specifically created to house Congress... need representation in the Congress ?? ??

Not to mention that it would be immoral. Why would such a tiny city filled with bureaucrats, feds, wealthy people, etc. have so much privilege. And saying that low-population states like Wyoming and Alaska can compared isn't right, because those states are so huge with tremendous resources with diverse cities scattered across it's landscape.

If you really want Senate representation just join Maryland or something.. don't take it out on the rest of us by ruining the balance of power.

I mean, the first problem can easily be solved if it is such a big issue. Just create a new Federal district in the rural expanse between Kansas and Nebraska or something and house the WH+Congress+SC there. (and while we are at it, ban settlement on said federal district to avoid the problem repeating itself).

Though I am pretty sure the proposals for DC statehood already keep a very small "federal district"; a federal district that would still be located between 2 states! (pretty sure the border would get to touch Virginia, or it'd be very close to doing so and extending it would be trivial)

As for the other argument tbh I've always thought that it absolutely reeks of dumb "American exceptionalism" in a way. The US are certainly not exceptional in having a small "federal district" that serves as the capital. In fact most federal countries do that.

What the US are exceptional in is in disenfranchising said federal district. The only country that does something even remotely similar to my knowledge is Australia, which gives Canberra only 2 Senators instead of the usual 12 and with Canberra only having partial home rule.

Every other federation gives full representation to their federal district; places like Brasilia in Brasil, CABA in Argentina, Berlin in Germany or Vienna in Austria are not disenfranchised at all and get the same rights as every other state. Why should the US be exceptional on disenfranchising a bunch of citizens? That's not a category you generally want to be exceptional in

[Woody]

So you’re saying it’s immoral for people you don’t like to vote? Also you are literally ignore the hundreds of thousands of poor black Washingtonians that make the majority of permanent resident whose jobs have little to do with the federal government…

They still vote on presidential elections, it's immoral for them to have senators and reps by any means. WTF was the point of a capital city if they're just going to end up a state. And if you live there and care so much about it, nobody is stopping you from moving somewhere else, it's your choice ultimately.

Also while we're at it, wouldn't DC have a huge advantage politically against the rest of the states since it hosts all the Chambers of Congress and the rest of the institutions?

By the way, DC is not majority black anymore, it's a plurality now by 2-5%, DC is on track to become majority white in the 2020s with people constantly settling in there, almost all of them are exclusively white with good paying jobs provided by the government, so the oppressed card doesn't work.

[ibagli]

What the US are exceptional in is in disenfranchising said federal district. The only country that does something even remotely similar to my knowledge is Australia, which gives Canberra only 2 Senators instead of the usual 12 and with Canberra only having partial home rule.

That used to be far more common, it's just that the USA has so many veto points that when democratic norms shifted, the Constitution couldn't. In 1978, there was such a strong bipartisan consensus that DC deserved representation that the DC Voting Rights Amendment got the necessary supermajorities in both houses of Congress. That just wasn't enough, and the amendment fizzled, and eventually so did the consensus about DC needing representation (and, generally, the consensus around pro-democratic structural reforms, such as abolishing the electoral college).

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

So you’re saying it’s immoral for people you don’t like to vote? Also you are literally ignore the hundreds of thousands of poor black Washingtonians that make the majority of permanent resident whose jobs have little to do with the federal government…

They still vote on presidential elections, it's immoral for them to have senators and reps by any means. WTF was the point of a capital city if they're just going to end up a state. And if you live there and care so much about it, nobody is stopping you from moving somewhere else, it's your choice ultimately.

Also while we're at it, wouldn't DC have a huge advantage politically against the rest of the states since it hosts all the Chambers of Congress and the rest of the institutions?

By the way, DC is not majority black anymore, it's a plurality now by 2-5%, DC is on track to become majority white in the 2020s with people constantly settling in there, almost all of them are exclusively white with good paying jobs provided by the government, so the oppressed card doesn't work.

Every nation in the world has a capital city.  Can you name me a single one that doesn’t have the right to vote in their national elections?

[Virginiá]

They still vote on presidential elections, it's immoral for them to have senators and reps by any means. WTF was the point of a capital city if they're just going to end up a state. And if you live there and care so much about it, nobody is stopping you from moving somewhere else, it's your choice ultimately.

Yeah, definitely not everybody can do that:

Overall, median household income in the District rose last year, continuing a 10-year trend. The median household income is now $82,400, which means that half of all DC households have incomes above this level and half have incomes below it. The increase in median household income is a sign that many DC families are doing better as the city creates more jobs and wages rise.

But a closer look shows that DC’s growing prosperity is not evenly shared: while the median income for white households has increased significantly over the last decade, the median income for Black households hasn’t budged. Black median household income in DC– now around $42,000—is less than a third of the white median household income of $134,000

Very meaningful considering African Americans constitute 46% (2019 estimates) of the district's population.

Also while we're at it, wouldn't DC have a huge advantage politically against the rest of the states since it hosts all the Chambers of Congress and the rest of the institutions?

Oh, like the advantage it has now, with limited home rule and Congress periodically stepping on their ability to do things whenever it is a little bit controversial? DC residents voted to legalization marijuana years ago and Congress (re: Republicans) just couldn't live with that, so they used their federal power to block DC's ability to start a market for cannabis as the people wanted.

[Former President tack50]

So you’re saying it’s immoral for people you don’t like to vote? Also you are literally ignore the hundreds of thousands of poor black Washingtonians that make the majority of permanent resident whose jobs have little to do with the federal government…

They still vote on presidential elections, it's immoral for them to have senators and reps by any means. WTF was the point of a capital city if they're just going to end up a state. And if you live there and care so much about it, nobody is stopping you from moving somewhere else, it's your choice ultimately.

Also while we're at it, wouldn't DC have a huge advantage politically against the rest of the states since it hosts all the Chambers of Congress and the rest of the institutions?

By the way, DC is not majority black anymore, it's a plurality now by 2-5%, DC is on track to become majority white in the 2020s with people constantly settling in there, almost all of them are exclusively white with good paying jobs provided by the government, so the oppressed card doesn't work.

Every nation in the world has a capital city.  Can you name me a single one that doesn’t have the right to vote in their national elections?

I already answered that one for Woodbury and the answer is "none"

Closest you get is Canberra, which has 1/6 of the representation in the Senate (though 1/6 is not zero) and home rule limitations comparable-ish to those from DC if I am not mistaken (Canberra also does have full representation in the lower chamber, though for DC this is irrelevant as it will likely never qualify for more than 1 seat)

[Amanda Huggenkiss]

If you seriously think that decisions made in the 18th century should be binding in the 21st century without qualification, I have a three-fifth of a person to sell you.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Manchin is still talking bipartisanship, and it's unlikely that the TX D's are gonna get VR passed or DC Statehood, the TX D's came to DC without a plan, it was a Beto plan