DC Unrest Megathread

[emailking]

I have to say I'm pretty uncomfortable with Google / Apple play store removing Parler from their downloads (in Apple's case, threatening removal in 24 hours). I think these tech companies may be flexing their muscles too much here.

Free market. Let the rednecks learn to code and build their own platform to spout bullsh**t from. It's all feeding this conspiracy nonsense. They use out of context memes as "I'd die for this" evidence and I'm over it.

Well Parler's still available on the website. It's just harder to access from a phone.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I have to say I'm pretty uncomfortable with Google / Apple play store removing Parler from their downloads (in Apple's case, threatening removal in 24 hours). I think these tech companies may be flexing their muscles too much here.

Free market. Let the rednecks learn to code and build their own platform to spout bullsh**t from. It's all feeding this conspiracy nonsense. They use out of context memes as "I'd die for this" evidence and I'm over it.

Well Parler's still available on the website. It's just harder to access from a phone.

The real big news would be Parler being kicked off Google search results. That's what happened to 8chan years ago.

[Gass3268]

Trump posted to his POTUS account before Twitter took it down:

https://twitter.com/senhorraposa/status/1347718431555149826?s=21

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Trump posted to his POTUS account before Twitter took it down:

https://twitter.com/senhorraposa/status/1347718431555149826?s=21

He sounds nice, stable, focused on his duties and not at all like a crazy man who needs to be removed from office.

[BaldEagle1991]

Trump posted to his POTUS account before Twitter took it down:

https://twitter.com/senhorraposa/status/1347718431555149826?s=21

We have a President who doesn’t know what free speech actually is.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

A lot of disturbing trends have been occuring beneath the surface that together have made our politics more toxic on a cultural level than the 10 or 20 years ago (among them, the death of local news). And worst is, there is no easy way to just cure it. We just have to manage it, preferably carefully.

Agreed.

It's just all the actual evidence, imo, hints to perhaps 10-15% of Trump backers finding this a good idea, and the rest, 85%, are generally average joe schmoes in Lima, OH or Wichita, KS or some other place, driven by suprisingly normal motivations that we in fact see quite often on both sides of the partisan divide, just in different iterations and degrees.

What evidence? I am not being facetious. As far as I am aware we have only four points of reference to determine how Republicans are responding to Wednesday's events.

(1) The votes of Republican members of Congress on the motions to object to the electoral certificates of Arizona and Pennsylvania after the assault on the Capitol.
(2) The statements of elected Republicans during and after the assault.
(3) The YouGov poll.
(4) The PBS/Marist poll.

A majority of Congressional Republican —147 out of the 263 sitting GOP senators and representatives —voted to sustain the objections after the assault on the Capitol. (1) At the very least, this indicates a willingness on the part of the majority of the Republican caucus to support the immediate political aim of the insurrection —to delay or altogether prevent the inauguration of the duly-elected president and vice president. I would argue it also represents a willingness to embrace the dangerous rhetoric which produced the insurrection in the first place, even after the consequences of that rhetoric were made very plain. On the other hand, a minority of elected Republicans have held Trump personally responsible for Wednesday's events and called for his ouster —either by means of his voluntary resignation, removal by way of the Twenty-fifth Amendment, or impeachment. One poll suggests that a plurality of self-identified Republicans (45%) support the insurrection, while a second suggests that a large majority (80%) oppose the insurrection.

This event is different from other examples of political violence we have seen in the last year, in that (a) it was the direct result of a specific exhortation of the leader of a national political party ("we are going to walk to the Capitol," "you will never take back this country with weakness," "let's have trial by combat"); (b) it was an assault on the seat of the federal government; and (c) the insurrectionists clearly identified themselves, their affiliation with the national leader, and their reasons for making the attack ("Trump won that election"). Furthermore, the president did not immediately condemn the violence and did not take immediate action to suppress the insurrection, as he did with regard to rioting in the wake of the murder of George Floyd.

While not directly relevant, multiple polls in the last year have found that anywhere from a third to a majority of Republican voters believe the Qanon conspiracy theory is "mostly" or "partly" true. (2) (3) (4) In light of these figures, is it really unreasonable to theorize that the large number of Republicans who believe it is possible Joe Biden or key individuals supporting him are blood-drinking Satanists might favor violent action to prevent him from taking office?

Because of this, and because Trump's actions on Wednesday were consistent with his actions and rhetoric prior to that day —in fact, consistent with his public position on the peaceful transition of power since at least 2016 —we cannot immediately dismiss the possibility that this is what his supporters voted for, as we can with other historical examples of presidents who overstepped the line. It would be a mistake, I think, to assume that all Republicans support the attack on the Capitol. It is clear, however, that some share of Trump voters do support the attack. What that share is will be revealed by the actions of elected Republicans and Republican voters in 2021 and beyond. Do they punish politicians like Cruz and Hawley who played a leading role in encouraging Wednesday's events? Do they abandon Trump if he runs again in 2024, or refuse to support candidates who embrace his legacy or rhetoric? Or do they continue to profess in large numbers that the 2020 election was rigged and continue to defend Trump and his record?

(For the record, my best guess is that the number of Republicans who honestly support the violent overthrow of the government is somewhere between the YouGov and Marist polls, but I'm not going to put a hard number on it until we have more evidence.)

[ProudModerate2]

>.> Apparently it's a lot more than 10-15%.

Ok, I suppose it is a understatement. But not a lot more either. Only 22% of Republicans feel they were "Mostly right".
The rest of my point still stands.
Also: the poll started taking surveyers on the 6th, so that makes it less weighty.

35% of Republicans "approve" of this traitorous action. What are talking about?

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

>.> Apparently it's a lot more than 10-15%.

Ok, I suppose it is a understatement. But not a lot more either. Only 22% of Republicans feel they were "Mostly right".
The rest of my point still stands.
Also: the poll started taking surveyers on the 6th, so that makes it less weighty.

35% of Republicans "approve" of this traitorous action. What are talking about?

More to the point think they were either right or ‘had a point’.

[forsythvoter]

I usually don't find myself so completely on the same page as Pelosi, but I am 100% in support of removing Trump from office ASAP, whether through 25th amendment or through impeachment. What happened this week was literally one of my worst fears of allowing Trump to have so much influence over US politics, and enough really is enough. Trump needs to be rebuked in the history books for his anti-American behavior, regardless of what you may think of his politics.

And to all his enablers who are continuing to raise election fraud allegations in the face of lack of evidence, court rulings and all of this destruction, you will never have my vote for President (looking @you, Hawley...).

[ProudModerate2]

Capitol Police officer who died when mob stormed the Capitol was proud to serve his nation, family said.
Click here to read article ... https://us.cnn.com/2021/01/08/us/brian-sicknick-death/index.html

[Virginiá]

CC: Murkowski party switch watch (or indie caucusing with Democrats)

https://twitter.com/AK_OK/status/1347656319486943234

A lot easier for her to thread that needle now that Alaska has a top 4 RCV system in place for 2022.

[Warren 4 Secretary of Everything]

CC: Murkowski party switch watch (or indie caucusing with Democrats)

https://twitter.com/AK_OK/status/1347656319486943234

A lot easier for her to thread that needle now that Alaska has a top 4 RCV system in place for 2022.

I think she said in that exact interview that she wouldn’t be joining the Democratic caucus

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

A lot of disturbing trends have been occuring beneath the surface that together have made our politics more toxic on a cultural level than the 10 or 20 years ago (among them, the death of local news). And worst is, there is no easy way to just cure it. We just have to manage it, preferably carefully.

Agreed.

It's just all the actual evidence, imo, hints to perhaps 10-15% of Trump backers finding this a good idea, and the rest, 85%, are generally average joe schmoes in Lima, OH or Wichita, KS or some other place, driven by suprisingly normal motivations that we in fact see quite often on both sides of the partisan divide, just in different iterations and degrees.

What evidence? I am not being facetious. As far as I am aware we have only four points of reference to determine how Republicans are responding to Wednesday's events.

(1) The votes of Republican members of Congress on the motions to object to the electoral certificates of Arizona and Pennsylvania after the assault on the Capitol.
(2) The statements of elected Republicans during and after the assault.
(3) The YouGov poll.
(4) The PBS/Marist poll.

A majority of Congressional Republican —147 out of the 263 sitting GOP senators and representatives —voted to sustain the objections after the assault on the Capitol. (1) At the very least, this indicates a willingness on the part of the majority of the Republican caucus to support the immediate political aim of the insurrection —to delay or altogether prevent the inauguration of the duly-elected president and vice president. I would argue it also represents a willingness to embrace the dangerous rhetoric which produced the insurrection in the first place, even after the consequences of that rhetoric were made very plain. On the other hand, a minority of elected Republicans have held Trump personally responsible for Wednesday's events and called for his ouster —either by means of his voluntary resignation, removal by way of the Twenty-fifth Amendment, or impeachment. One poll suggests that a plurality of self-identified Republicans (45%) support the insurrection, while a second suggests that a large majority (80%) oppose the insurrection.

This event is different from other examples of political violence we have seen in the last year, in that (a) it was the direct result of a specific exhortation of the leader of a national political party ("we are going to walk to the Capitol," "you will never take back this country with weakness," "let's have trial by combat"); (b) it was an assault on the seat of the federal government; and (c) the insurrectionists clearly identified themselves, their affiliation with the national leader, and their reasons for making the attack ("Trump won that election"). Furthermore, the president did not immediately condemn the violence and did not take immediate action to suppress the insurrection, as he did with regard to rioting in the wake of the murder of George Floyd.

While not directly relevant, multiple polls in the last year have found that anywhere from a third to a majority of Republican voters believe the Qanon conspiracy theory is "mostly" or "partly" true. (2) (3) (4) In light of these figures, is it really unreasonable to theorize that the large number of Republicans who believe it is possible Joe Biden or key individuals supporting him are blood-drinking Satanists might favor violent action to prevent him from taking office?

Because of this, and because Trump's actions on Wednesday were consistent with his actions and rhetoric prior to that day —in fact, consistent with his public position on the peaceful transition of power since at least 2016 —we cannot immediately dismiss the possibility that this is what his supporters voted for, as we can with other historical examples of presidents who overstepped the line. It would be a mistake, I think, to assume that all Republicans support the attack on the Capitol. It is clear, however, that some share of Trump voters do support the attack. What that share is will be revealed by the actions of elected Republicans and Republican voters in 2021 and beyond. Do they punish politicians like Cruz and Hawley who played a leading role in encouraging Wednesday's events? Do they abandon Trump if he runs again in 2024, or refuse to support candidates who embrace his legacy or rhetoric? Or do they continue to profess in large numbers that the 2020 election was rigged and continue to defend Trump and his record?

(For the record, my best guess is that the number of Republicans who honestly support the violent overthrow of the government is somewhere between the YouGov and Marist polls, but I'm not going to put a hard number on it until we have more evidence.)

Problem with the QAnon polls is that there were numerous overanalysis problems with them, even if the wording was well-done (frequently it wasn't). A ton of Republicans never really knew what QAnon actually truly was deep down either, and polls I believe generally showed awareness of QAnon to be highest among Democrats. Tribal anti-Dem feelings on QAnon also tinged the entire thing, and the entire issue amounted to a "no u" kind of debate. You will find partisan tribalism taints everything. GOP politicians, well aware of this, and afraid of losing Trump's support, thus assumed it was better to keep objecting until they were sure it wasn't.

I do think it's worth pointing that the numbers are lower in percentage than most polls that began on the 6th show it, but also that is kind of besides the point, because this is still a huge number. We are talking a group of 10 million at the lowest, spread all over the nation. It was just around ten thousand  people at most who stormed the Capitol. We probably need to hire more Capitol police to provide more security on these sorts of occasions, and we need to update security protocols just to make sure something like this is averted to the greatest degree possible.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Capitol Police officer who died when mob stormed the Capitol was proud to serve his nation, family said.
Click here to read article ... https://us.cnn.com/2021/01/08/us/brian-sicknick-death/index.html

This is what an actual patriot looks like.

Also, what felony murder looks like.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Capitol Police officer who died when mob stormed the Capitol was proud to serve his nation, family said.
Click here to read article ... https://us.cnn.com/2021/01/08/us/brian-sicknick-death/index.html

Rest in peace.

[Holy Unifying Centrist]

I have to say I'm pretty uncomfortable with Google / Apple play store removing Parler from their downloads (in Apple's case, threatening removal in 24 hours). I think these tech companies may be flexing their muscles too much here.

Free market. Let the rednecks learn to code and build their own platform to spout bullsh**t from. It's all feeding this conspiracy nonsense. They use out of context memes as "I'd die for this" evidence and I'm over it.

I'm not a huge fan of the free market, but even taking into account that bad faith argument: Google is a huge monopoly and has almost total control over their market. How the hell is anything supposed to compete with Apple or Google?

[Alben Barkley]

Is Trump legally liable for the death of that cop? I’d say he should be. He has blood on his hands.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Is Trump legally liable for the death of that cop? I’d say he should be. He has blood on his hands.

Unfortunately, well unfortunately in this case it was actually good criminal justice reform, felony murder in Washington DC has been narrowed to a specific list of crimes and sedition and rioting aren’t on it.
Everyone near where this happened though should be looking at life.

[Santander]

I have to say I'm pretty uncomfortable with Google / Apple play store removing Parler from their downloads (in Apple's case, threatening removal in 24 hours). I think these tech companies may be flexing their muscles too much here.

Free market. Let the rednecks learn to code and build their own platform to spout bullsh**t from. It's all feeding this conspiracy nonsense. They use out of context memes as "I'd die for this" evidence and I'm over it.

I'm not a huge fan of the free market, but even taking into account that bad faith argument: Google is a huge monopoly and has almost total control over their market. How the hell is anything supposed to compete with Apple or Google?

And the problem is not even that Google is a business monopoly either. It would be one thing if they had a monopoly in wheat or Christmas trees, but their monopoly allows them to control how people think and behave.

[randomusername]

https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/1347678192123990016

Trump accused your father of being the man who killed JFK and insulted your wife, and NOW you're worried about civility. Lyin' Ted gonna lie.

[SevenEleven]

I have to say I'm pretty uncomfortable with Google / Apple play store removing Parler from their downloads (in Apple's case, threatening removal in 24 hours). I think these tech companies may be flexing their muscles too much here.

Free market. Let the rednecks learn to code and build their own platform to spout bullsh**t from. It's all feeding this conspiracy nonsense. They use out of context memes as "I'd die for this" evidence and I'm over it.

I'm not a huge fan of the free market, but even taking into account that bad faith argument: Google is a huge monopoly and has almost total control over their market. How the hell is anything supposed to compete with Apple or Google?

And the problem is not even that Google is a business monopoly either. It would be one thing if they had a monopoly in wheat or Christmas trees, but their monopoly allows them to control how people think and behave.

Which is strange to me. Who uses google for anything other than as a shortcut to find a Wikipedia article? Even youtube, who actually clicks on ads or video recommendations?

[Rand]

Is Trump legally liable for the death of that cop? I’d say he should be. He has blood on his hands.

Blood on his hands, blood coming from his eyes. Blood coming from...wherever.

[Calthrina950]

Is Trump legally liable for the death of that cop? I’d say he should be. He has blood on his hands.

Blood on his hands, blood coming from his eyes. Blood coming from...wherever.

Do you have to make a sexual joke out of everything? Even over a matter as sensitive as someone's death? Particularly someone who died in the line of duty against these extremists?

[Former President tack50]

https://twitter.com/bnonews/status/1347705860567523335?s=21

Most Android phones can easily be configured to install non Play Store apps, so while a blow, it is far from a death sentence. It's just a checkbox in the phone settings, I've even done it myself.

Apple removing it from their store would do much more harm given jailbreaking your iPhone is much harder though. Also if I am not mistaken Apple holds a huge portion of the US market, certainly more than in most European countries; so Apple banning it would do a lot more

[Stranger in a strange land]

https://twitter.com/bnonews/status/1347705860567523335?s=21

Most Android phones can easily be configured to install non Play Store apps, so while a blow, it is far from a death sentence. It's just a checkbox in the phone settings, I've even done it myself.

Apple removing it from their store would do much more harm given jailbreaking your iPhone is much harder though. Also if I am not mistaken Apple holds a huge portion of the US market, certainly more than in most European countries; so Apple banning it would do a lot more

You think tech-illiterate boomers can do this? Although TBF they can just access Parler through the phone's browser, unless Parler's ISP stops carrying it.