The Atlas Asylum of absurd/ignorant posts IX

[RINO Tom]

This is the best they could do? Lean D!

So... can we put aside the this attitude that because the pollster has a (R) they must have an R bias? There's been many instances where even Trafalgar underestimated Trump and Republicans. Susquehanna was never really a partisan pollster to begin with, they just got sick and tired of the election mafia, Nate Silver's and Dave Wasserman's of the world propping up ridiculous Dem-biased polls, so they called them out and joined ranks with R superpacs.

Put this here because of the post's implication that Trafalger is anything other than a junk polling firm run by a random Republican hack.

This thread, even in its dumbest, has avoided election forum stuff more often than not.  You should just link to the whole sub forum.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

He’s right. The US and friends only intervened in Western Europe to stop the incoming Reds from annexing all of Nazi Germany after the Nazi military was basically completely neutralized in Ukraine and Poland.

Right, it had nothing to do with Germany literally declaring war on us  

The European colonial powers and the US did jack in Europe for 3-4 years while the Soviet Union was taking out both Germany and Japan. Only when the Nazi army was basically absolvent did they feign a quick and weak invasion to garner whatever territory they could from the remnants of the German Army and the Hitler Youth.

Are you threatened by basic history or something? Everything PSOL said about the war in Europe was true.

[RINO Tom]

He’s right. The US and friends only intervened in Western Europe to stop the incoming Reds from annexing all of Nazi Germany after the Nazi military was basically completely neutralized in Ukraine and Poland.

Right, it had nothing to do with Germany literally declaring war on us  

The European colonial powers and the US did jack in Europe for 3-4 years while the Soviet Union was taking out both Germany and Japan. Only when the Nazi army was basically absolvent did they feign a quick and weak invasion to garner whatever territory they could from the remnants of the German Army and the Hitler Youth.

Are you threatened by basic history or something? Everything PSOL said about the war in Europe was true.

Uh, let’s start with the facts that the Soviets only fought the Nazis once they couldn’t literally be their ally anymore and they didn’t fight the Japanese at all!

[KaiserDave]

PSOL I would say is perhaps exaggerating the situation, or at least I would say he is understating the opposition to the Normandy invasions and subsequent combat. And the supply and logistics support provided by the western allies.

I also take issue with the Japanese comment, the Soviets stopped fighting them after Khalkhin Gol in 1939, and while the Soviet invasion of Manchuria was instrumental in the Japanese surrender, it would be unwise to understate the western involvement in slaying the Japanese Empire. And of course in the European Theatre there was Molotov-Ribbentrop.

However the overall thrust of PSOL's statement is largely true, if indelicate. The Soviets bled and died in the millions to destroy fascism, more than anybody else*


*Do not forget the Chinese front

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

(In before "posting directly into the thread")

1. PSOL makes a fair point in that the US and friends (as he humorously calls it) did humanity a service by saving some of the greatest centers of Western civilization (Rome, Paris) from Soviet domination. It stands out as perhaps Franklin Roosevelt's greatest accomplishment.
2. While probably better than Nazi rule, which aimed at the extermination of races, I'd say that Communist rule is far worse than much of Eastern Europe deserved, and for many in Eastern Europe, rescue from the German army did not in any sense mean "liberation".

[Battista Minola 1616]

(In before "posting directly into the thread")

1. PSOL makes a fair point in that the US and friends (as he humorously calls it) did humanity a service by saving some of the greatest centers of Western civilization (Rome, Paris) from Soviet domination. It stands out as perhaps Franklin Roosevelt's greatest accomplishment.
2. While probably better than Nazi rule, which aimed at the extermination of races, I'd say that Communist rule is far worse than much of Eastern Europe deserved, and for many in Eastern Europe, rescue from the German army did not in any sense mean "liberation".

How was Rome saved from 'Soviet domination' during Roosevelt's administration?

No, actually, don't answer, before my inner Pasolini gets unduly triggered.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

(In before "posting directly into the thread")

1. PSOL makes a fair point in that the US and friends (as he humorously calls it) did humanity a service by saving some of the greatest centers of Western civilization (Rome, Paris) from Soviet domination. It stands out as perhaps Franklin Roosevelt's greatest accomplishment.
2. While probably better than Nazi rule, which aimed at the extermination of races, I'd say that Communist rule is far worse than much of Eastern Europe deserved, and for many in Eastern Europe, rescue from the German army did not in any sense mean "liberation".

How was Rome saved from 'Soviet domination' during Roosevelt's administration?

No, actually, don't answer, before my inner Pasolini gets unduly triggered.

I will enthusiastically ignore your command and attempt to answer the question. My galaxy brain theory is that a WWII with no Allied invasion of Western Europe is one where the Soviet Union is left to write the rules of the continent in the new era. This may go as far as Soviet occupations of Axis-held territory in places such as Italy and France. If we accept as true that the Red Army almost singlehandedly defeated the Axis powers in mainland Europe, then we must surely entertain as realistic the idea that, left alone on the continent, they would have driven farther west than Berlin, especially if it was consistent with war aims.

ADDENDUM/EDIT: Acknowledging now that you may be in the process of writing a wicked response to skewer me, I observe two chief weaknesses in my claim. I seek to address them here. (1) I will of course entertain the possibility that, without the US Army on the continent, Stalin would have felt less of a need to set up the vast East European security belt, but the dismemberment or complete takeover of all of Germany seems a pretty obvious security priority, and if you have the chance to install a puppet regime with relatively minimal effort, why not? (2) I'll also admit that domestic resistance movements in places like France may have turned against hypothetical Soviet occupiers, but some assuredly had left-wing sympathies, and the anticommunists may have simply met the same fate as their compatriots in Eastern Europe.

[Battista Minola 1616]

(In before "posting directly into the thread")

1. PSOL makes a fair point in that the US and friends (as he humorously calls it) did humanity a service by saving some of the greatest centers of Western civilization (Rome, Paris) from Soviet domination. It stands out as perhaps Franklin Roosevelt's greatest accomplishment.
2. While probably better than Nazi rule, which aimed at the extermination of races, I'd say that Communist rule is far worse than much of Eastern Europe deserved, and for many in Eastern Europe, rescue from the German army did not in any sense mean "liberation".

How was Rome saved from 'Soviet domination' during Roosevelt's administration?

No, actually, don't answer, before my inner Pasolini gets unduly triggered.

I will enthusiastically ignore your command and attempt to answer the question. My galaxy brain theory is that a WWII with no Allied invasion of Western Europe is one where the Soviet Union is left to write the rules of the continent in the new era. This may go as far as Soviet occupations of Axis-held territory in places such as Italy and France. If we accept as true that the Red Army almost singlehandedly defeated the Axis powers in mainland Europe, then we must surely entertain as realistic the idea that, left alone on the continent, they would have driven farther west than Berlin, especially if it was consistent with war aims.

ADDENDUM/EDIT: Acknowledging now that you may be in the process of writing a wicked response to skewer me, I observe two chief weaknesses in my claim. I seek to address them here. (1) I will of course entertain the possibility that, without the US Army on the continent, Stalin would have felt less of a need to set up the vast East European security belt, but the dismemberment or complete takeover of all of Germany seems a pretty obvious security priority, and if you have the chance to install a puppet regime with relatively minimal effort, why not? (2) I'll also admit that domestic resistance movements in places like France may have turned against hypothetical Soviet occupiers, but some assuredly had left-wing sympathies, and the anticommunists may have simply met the same fate as their compatriots in Eastern Europe.

Lol you're doing all by yourself I have neither the energy nor the time (and probably nor the knowledge) to write "a wicked response to skewer" you.

What I was going to write was:

1. You're mean.
2. This may make sense, but I had read your original statement quite differently.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

How did you read it?

[Battista Minola 1616]

How did you read it?

As if 'US and friends' had actually combated against Communists in France and Italy during the war, or something like that.

[parochial boy]

Going into a little bit of hot take territory here, but could you not claim something, something about the US interference in the 1948 election in Italy?

[Battista Minola 1616]

Going into a little bit of hot take territory here, but could you not claim something, something about the US interference in the 1948 election in Italy?

That's why I mentioned "my inner Pasolini", exactly. But it certainly wasn't during Roosevelt's presidency.
And no it is not a hot take, it is by now proven that CIA interfered with it.

[parochial boy]

Going into a little bit of hot take territory here, but could you not claim something, something about the US interference in the 1948 election in Italy?

That's why I mentioned "my inner Pasolini", exactly. But it certainly wasn't during Roosevelt's presidency.
And no it is not a hot take, it is by now proven that CIA interfered with it.

Ah, by hot take I meant, would a PCI victory have necessarily meant Italy turning into a Soviet satellite? I’ll plead the ignorance of not really knowing how fragile Italy’s democratic institutions were at the time or how much power an eventual Communist government would have had.

The PCF participated in, even as the largest party, French 4th republic governments without ever managing to turn France into a Stalinist satellite

[Battista Minola 1616]

Going into a little bit of hot take territory here, but could you not claim something, something about the US interference in the 1948 election in Italy?

That's why I mentioned "my inner Pasolini", exactly. But it certainly wasn't during Roosevelt's presidency.
And no it is not a hot take, it is by now proven that CIA interfered with it.

Ah, by hot take I meant, would a PCI victory have necessarily meant Italy turning into a Soviet satellite? I’ll plead the ignorance of not really knowing how fragile Italy’s democratic institutions were at the time or how much power an eventual Communist government would have had.

The PCF participated in, even as the largest party, French 4th republic governments without ever managing to turn France into a Stalinist satellite

I don't know. The 1948 was *extremely* polarizing, and I'm not really sure how things would have developed (especially in the military and paramilitary front) with a leftist victory.
Speaking of democratic institutions, it must be considered that the Prime Minister (and therefore the colour of the government) in Italy is appointed by the President of the Republic, but the 1948 parliament was also tasked to elect the new President of the Republic (the first one had been temporary), and good luck with that with a different parliamentary composition.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

How did you read it?

As if 'US and friends' had actually combated against Communists in France and Italy during the war, or something like that.

A boy can dream, can't he!?

[Pro-Israel, anti-Bibi]

I can't wait until smokers bother to step outside to smoke in Las Vegas.

no doubt the jack boots in this thread would love to see that.  Authoritarians love to see the lessers suffer.

Is it wrong to ask someone to step outside to freaking smoke a freaking cigarette?

the govt using guns to force people to do it?  yes, I think so.

[Coolface Sock #42069]

Alabama made it clear it didn't want any qualified candidate. It wanted a candidate to match their intellect.

[VAR]

CNN wants him to lose. There's no two ways about it.

Referring to Raphael Warnock

[S019]

Trumpslide. Reagan-style landslide, a real one this time.  Once the impeachment stuff went away, and the Middle-East peace deals happened with more fanfare, no question.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Then he stays President. Our whole system was built on the peaceful transfer of power, and it was like a Jenga tower. Trump's Presidency was the one finger that knocked it over.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Can't believe anybody here is this low IQ.

Good policy; I hope it gets replicated elsewhere.

May we eventually regulate tobacco into non-existence.

Shall we also repeal the 21st Amendment?

A lot of society's problems would be fixed if we did that (no more drunk parents beating up children, no more accidents due to drunk driving, no more brawls at bars, no more gambling while drunk (which causes people to lose track of how much they actually gambled))

[Sir Mohamed]

Dems should give up period. They aren't winning anymore once the fraud is exposed. GOP will be in white house for decades.

[Kingpoleon]

Wait, is it anti-Semitic to want people to convert to your religion?

Yes.

Interesting definition of anti-Semitism here.

[John Dule]

Wait, is it anti-Semitic to want people to convert to your religion?

Yes.

Interesting definition of anti-Semitism here.

Wanting anyone to convert to your religion is sociopathic.

[Xeuma]

Wait, is it anti-Semitic to want people to convert to your religion?

Yes.

Interesting definition of anti-Semitism here.

Wanting anyone to convert to your religion is sociopathic.

Directly in the thread and all that.