This Once Great Movement Of Ours

[Filuwaúrdjan]

First rule of THIGMOO is not to let facts get in the way of a funny story!

This was the view of no less an authority in all matters THIGMOO than the late Duncan Tanner, so it is as official as such rules can be.

[Wiswylfen]

Apart from neither of those exactly being trivial issues, another example of her recently taking a not terribly Tory position was posted just upthread. I find her just as exasperating as most Labour people do, but let's stick to the facts here.

Those are the facts. You are partially correct in that those are not trivial issues to Duffield (hence the lack of a defection), but that is more an indictment of her progressive, Open Labour background than anything else.

[CumbrianLefty]

Nothing wrong with Open Labour, you know.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

My duffield conspiracy theory is there is a hint of self preservation: she got some very bad press for lockdown breaking in a manner closer to the Bojo end of the spectrum, but she has saved her position by taking a side in the Debate that Online Journalists love.

[Wiswylfen]

Labour shift on trans rights is misguided attempt to win back red wall, says MP: ‘It’s patronising’

The MP – who represents a red-wall constituency – says they’ve only ever had one person in their constituency raise “gender critical” talking points on the doorsteps – but they have had hundreds of emails and exchanges with those who are worried about the direction of trans rights in the UK.

Many are older people who have trans children or grandchildren who are concerned about how anti-trans talking points could jeopardise their family’s health and happiness.

“People up north just don’t give a s**t about any of this, so when I’m in London and I hear all this stuff about how people up north are so socially conservative and they’re so worried about these things, I’m like: no, they’re really not.

“They’re worried about how they’re going to pay their mortgage this month. They’re worried about air pollution and the climate crisis. They’re worried about animal rights and whether or not they can get a doctor’s appointment.”

Far from being a working-class issue, the MP suggests that “gender-critical” talking points are primarily coming from middle-class professionals in cities like London, Cambridge and Canterbury.

“They’re somehow ventriloquising people up north as a sort of a cover – but that’s your views, not ours. It’s patronising.”

The MP adds: “I think Labour thinks by doing this Julia Hartley-Brewer will leave us alone and stop asking people if women have penises and we can start talking about the NHS instead – but they’re not going to stop asking that.”

[CumbrianLefty]

The point they and you miss, is that it really isn't about that at all. It is far *far* more about reducing the hostility to the party from loud and influential opinion formers.

And yes, this is at least *a* primary motivation with several of Starmer's changes.

[Wiswylfen]

The point they and you miss, is that it really isn't about that at all. It is far *far* more about reducing the hostility to the party from loud and influential opinion formers.

And yes, this is at least *a* primary motivation with several of Starmer's changes.

Well, I quoted that specifically for the accurate description of where the hatred of trans people actually lies in reality, but given that we know for a fact that hilariously incorrect perceptions of the so-called 'red wall' and what it believes are widespread in the party, I am doubtful that that has not had a significant part to play in the new policy.

edit: And as you will see in that quote and the article, the MP does think that "reducing the hostility to the party from loud and influential opinion formers" is also a motivation (and that it won't work: which is true).

[MaxQue]

The point they and you miss, is that it really isn't about that at all. It is far *far* more about reducing the hostility to the party from loud and influential opinion formers.

And yes, this is at least *a* primary motivation with several of Starmer's changes.

Which is misguided. The only way to deal the loud opinion formers is to win the election and pass legislation to weaken them.

[CumbrianLefty]

Yesterday the courts ruled that the planned expansion of ULEZ could go ahead, a win for Sadiq Khan and a defeat for the Tory run boroughs that brought the action.

He almost immediately announced it would go ahead next month as previously scheduled - looks like all that talk last weekend that Starmer would "intervene" was a load of fluff. Who knew?

Well how was he supposed to “intervene”, explicitly attack Khan publicly and threaten to suspend him?

Trouble is, some of the "sources" around Starmer are sad Malcolm Tucker wannabees (when in reality their swaggering around to client journos being anonymous helps obscure the likely reality that many of them are actualy bespectacled "suitcase" dweebs) A major reason they are there is because SKS's lack of front line politics experience made it easy for them to seduce him with their "we are the ONLY ONES who actually know how to win elections!" bulls***.

[afleitch]

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1688107316585869314

[CumbrianLefty]

Isn't the key word, strangely enough omitted here, "temporary"?

But that wouldn't generate enough outraged clicks i suppose.

[MaxQue]

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1688107316585869314

Isn't boats the strategy the SNP is using in Glasgow?

[AustralianSwingVoter]

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1688107316585869314

Isn't boats the strategy the SNP is using in Glasgow?

You could kill two birds with one stone, house asylum seekers in the unfinished CalMac ferries!

[EastAnglianLefty]

What Kinnock actually said was that they opposed the policy, but obviously they wouldn't be able to get everybody off the boats on day 1. This isn't the first time Sky News have blatantly misrepresented comments from shadow ministers.

[CumbrianLefty]

Not just them, the Guardian (of course) was at it as well.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It's an example of the Outrage Factory at work.

[Blair]

On that subject it’s been interesting to see the number of the terminally online crowd formerly behind RLB have now fully signed up with the Greens.

Funnily enough the UNITE Cadre types (who iirc backed Lavery and never really loved her) still stay in the party or are more hostile to the greens.

I really don’t have any objection to people joining the greens but I wonder if like those FBPE types who joined the Lib Dems from labour in 18-19 how long it will last and whether it will have an impact beyond paper membership.

I do actually think labour are underestimating the greens- both in terms of their vote share in a general and how well they could do in say the 2026 local elections.

[Leading Political Consultant Ma Anand Sheela]

What Kinnock actually said was that they opposed the policy, but obviously they wouldn't be able to get everybody off the boats on day 1. This isn't the first time Sky News have blatantly misrepresented comments from shadow ministers.

I think he expressed himself poorly, but that doesn't excuse Sky News just lying about it. And of course, 'Stephen Kinnock is nowhere near as good a communicator as he thinks he is' isn't news.

[Blair]

Shadow Immigratiom iirc has always been an awful brief to hold- one of my first political insights was seeing a now very respected parliamentarian brief overnight before a speech that a major U.K. company was employing too many immigrants, story fell apart and then the speech they gave basically said ‘oh no they’re fine.’

[EastAnglianLefty]

On that subject it’s been interesting to see the number of the terminally online crowd formerly behind RLB have now fully signed up with the Greens.

Funnily enough the UNITE Cadre types (who iirc backed Lavery and never really loved her) still stay in the party or are more hostile to the greens.

I really don’t have any objection to people joining the greens but I wonder if like those FBPE types who joined the Lib Dems from labour in 18-19 how long it will last and whether it will have an impact beyond paper membership.

I do actually think labour are underestimating the greens- both in terms of their vote share in a general and how well they could do in say the 2026 local elections.

One thing that was interesting in the polling on low/medium/high-attention voters was that whereas Reform do well with high-attention voters and don't exist amongst low-attention voters, the Greens do best with low-attention voters. Even with the usual tactical squeeze I suspect they'll keep a lot more deposits than they ever have before at the next general election, and in practice I suspect the squeeze will be weaker anyway.

[CumbrianLefty]

There will still be something of a squeeze I suspect - though it may be worth noting too that currently the Green poll support is rather less ex-Labour than has traditionally been the case.

[JimJamUK]

There will still be something of a squeeze I suspect - though it may be worth noting too that currently the Green poll support is rather less ex-Labour than has traditionally been the case.

Is it? There’s a small minority of ex-Tories which may be a bit higher than normal, but it’s still overwhelmingly people who voted Green/Labour/Lib Dem at the last election. The last time they ‘surged’ in 2015 it was very disproportionately 2010 Lib Dem rather than 2010 Labour voters (though the sort who would have otherwise been 2015 Labour voters).

[Blair]

Honourable member for Huddersfield has been at the Twitter again.

Expect it will be deleted or he will make an ‘apology’.

[CumbrianLefty]

Let's not mince words here, he is our very own Dianne Feinstein.

[EastAnglianLefty]

Feinstein at least has some accomplishments from her long service in Congress.