This Once Great Movement Of Ours

[Blair]

I didn't see this thread & would love to keep it going; I use the UK politics one as a surrogate for Labour news as well there's generally always agreement among our UK posters on the actions of our Government! But healthy disagreements & fascinating insights into the Labour Movement.

The appointment of Kate Green was actually what I expected (albeit it was because I thought she was in the Shadow Education team with her old brief) I thought she would get a big job in the first round.

I think her appointment as Owen Smith's chair is actually a valid indicator of her skills; in that she was picked because as Chair she was seen as non-factional & serious. I remember there being active discussion about it needing to be her rather than one of the old brownite hands who actually ran the coup. I think Heidi Alexander was the other co-chair.

It's a sensible choice & hopefully allows Labour to pivot to it's naturally strongest area- child poverty, something covid is going to have a huge impact on.

[Blair]

Can someone explain the drama around STV?

[Blair]

Can someone explain the drama around STV?

It has been pushed for - initially more out of doomed enthusiasm than expectation - by some groups and individuals on the moderate Left for a while. The arguments in favour are fairly obvious: that the existing system (multi-seat FPTP) is the worst electoral system possible and produces perverse and undemocratic results; that factional sweeps (when they occur) leave substantial sections of the membership unrepresented; that the existing system results in giant, tightly-controlled slates and that this encourages all the worst sort of factionalist mentalities. There's also the small matter that it would make it a lot harder for any single faction to control a majority of seats on the NEC. And there's a final issue, and that is that transfers are very important in an STV election, meaning that transfer-unfriendly candidates will find it much harder to get in than transfer-friendly candidates.

Ah thanks- I do wonder how the NEC slates will be impacted by this decision.

Both the Left & the Right seemed to be preparing ultra slates; Progress & Labour first had joined together, and were exepected to hand 2-3 seats to parts of the non-aligned 'Starmerism' & Momentum are undergoing their own NCG (?) election which I assume then picks the slate?

I know there was lots of debate about how much Momentum would overtly rely on the either the crank vote (LRC & CLPD) and the ultra crank vote but surely this saves them doesn't it?

I'm never particuarly passionate about internat party reforms in the sense of having strong opinions other than what is the best route to achieving the aims of having a competent party; I don't think there is an ideal structure that never changes but equally it does seem that Labour faces the prospect of wholesale NEC changes everytime we have a leadership switch; of course which side claiming it's a response to previous changes.

My only thought is that these 'CLP' seats would almost make more sense if they were halved in number & the remaining ones were given to various organised affliated factions to fill?

[Blair]

For more kremlinolgy it appears that Momentum Renewal have won control of the Momentum; looking at the slates it appears that Renewal is the more progressive (?) of the two, with Forward Momentum being dominated more so by the harder, lexiteer strand- I think, and the Labourlist article quote confirms that I think?

Labour MPs such as Ian Lavery, Paula Barker, Sam Tarry and Charlotte Nichols, plus Tribune‘s Ronan Burtenshaw and Novara Media‘s Aaron Bastani, had all signed up to back the Renewal initiative.

But the candidates selected by FM – said to include key workers, shop stewards and community organisers – were described by the campaign as “representing a break with the current leadership faction”.

I don't understand this area of the party that welll; although I suppose it's hard to analyse an election where I imagine what 10-20K people at the most voted? And these things often have feuds going back years; but it's being written up as an anti-Lansman move?

[Blair]

I did see someone joke that you know the Labour party is unhealthy when everyone is learning the NEC rules!

I assumed the Trade Union NEC places are the direct appointment of the general secretaries; of course much like with the Shadow Cabinet appointments there are certain senior figures the General Secretaries would want to appoint & others they wouldn't... my favourite fact was that the role of Deputy Leader only exists in Labour because the Unison rep serving as Chair decided to rule Lansman motion to abolish it as out of order; which meant it needed a 2/3rds majority & failed.

We also need to remember that the Scottish & Welsh Leaders also have the personal power to appoint NEC reps (a stitch up by Tom in 2016 iirc)

I think Al explained it to me before but the actual unions on the NEC is decided in some sort of weird pre-conference ritual & I seem to remember someone saying that if UNISON/GMB/USDAW get their sh**t together then one of the smaller unions will get booted off & replaced by community.

[Blair]

In more NEC news the Starmer Slate has been announced.

It's 6 people from 'Labour to Win', including the two sitting NEC reps. Luke Akehurst (former NEC & figure of some hilarity on the right) is running on the ticket; I couldn't bring myself to vote for him last time...

They're also backing three non 'Labour to win' choices; Paula Sheriff (a popular ex-MP who ran for the NEC by-election), Teresa Griffin (an ex-MEP who was stiched out of Liverpool seats in both '17 & '19*) and Anne Black. The obsessives on here will know about her, I actually voted for her in the last NEC election despite not always agreeing with her because she is actually the type of NEC member you need during times like this...

The thing of note is that they didn't back the full 'tribune' slate (the reborn MP faction, not the reborn magazine) as they left Liz McGinness; who is by far the best corbynite out of the three.

[Blair]

I think it would pitch itself as the Starmer Slate, but I'm not convinced that's terribly accurate. It's the traditional Progress/Labour First slate, it's just that Akehurst knows that there's going to be a benefit in appearing less factional this time. It's still a slate designed more around hostility to the left than it is around positive support for Starmer.

A discredited & unpopular faction hitching itself to the new powerful hegemon to help it push through internal changes & cement it's power- sounds familar!

But yes it's a slate that is opposed to Momemtum; rather than the left! Anne Black is just one woman but she is of the left & I think a lot of the right would (and did!) walk over hot coals before supporting her.

And I should have mentioned that for his faults Akehurst knew very early on that Starmer was the only horse in the race to rebuild the party & didn't engage in the stupidity of Jess Phillips campaign. Or the Draft Yvette effort.

[Blair]

I always assumed he was from the old right faction; especially because of his support for Saudi Arabia in Yemen. To his credit it appears to be more genuine than those in the party who believe that you don't have to care where the bombs go, as long as they're british made...

[Blair]

I've mentioned it before but my favourite moment was one in 1995 Blair had to sit through a two OAPs rant about how we needed to bring the birch back to sort out the 'hoodlums'; Blair sat through it nodding and smiling and then told them about his plans to get said hoodlums off benefits and into work, funded through the windfall tax.

No true Liberal would do that!

[Blair]

More so to remind myself by Open Labour had elections today where a grand total of around 1K people took part.

A reminder, for all of us, that Labour factions are small & very noisy.

[Blair]

https://labourlist.org/2020/07/starmer-accused-of-missing-in-action-as-activists-back-green-new-deal/

It's baffling that people don't realise that the Shadow Cabinet only really say things that are cleared with the leadership & the reason that Miliband was appointed was because of his record.

There's a lot of things about Starmer that don't fit into the mould of the left; but he's always firmly been on the environmental side of the party (voted against r3 at HTR) & no-one apart from GMB in Labour really wants to water down our environmental plans.

It's almost as if said group (Labour for a Green New Deal) is a front group which sits on Momentums steering board & was created by then pro-leadership activists to muscle out a perfectly good affliated campaign group (SIERRA)

One of my favourite things was that after RLB lost the LGND lot claimed it was because she hadn't talked about climate change enough; out of the 7 odd speakers for RLB at my CLP nomination meeting I think at least 5 mentioned the climate crisis, including several without actually mentioning the Labour Party or any of the candidates. Baffled why they think this is some sort of great factional wedge issue... I saw someone say that the left is in danger of crying wolf (I wonder if another faction had form of doing this & appearing out of touch?)

[Blair]

Actually there is an interesting divide in Corbynism with regard to Ed M - the pragmatists see him as an ally in at least some respects (not least due to how he got grief from some of the same people who so hounded Jez) whilst the hardliners see him as just another "enemy".

Didn't he also have a reasonably close political relationship with McCluskey (often used against him by the Tories) in order to pip his brother to the leadership?

IIRC Len McCluksey wasn't the General Secretary of UNITE in 2010; Len was just used as lot as he was the best union bogey man after Bob Crowe & the Falkirk scandal in 2013 gave UNITE a bit of exposure. I'm not sure how close they were early on but by 2014 UNITE was making a lot of noises & were actually being more disruptive than they are now.

But the thing that is forgotten in the age of either Miliband or Corbyn was how much the entire trade union movement rightly opposed the political shift to the right in regard to public services; so Ed was always the logical choice in 2010 & was endorsed by all the big unions (I'm 99% sure at least)

[Blair]

I ask this like a child dropping a mento into coke... but what are peoples thoughts on the Steve Reed tweetgate?

[Blair]

If anbody cares there appears to be a split in Momentum about the nomination for the NEC Youth Officer.

Lara McNeil, the current NEC rep, is running again-she's firmly on the left of the party, was a lexiteer I think & has generally been one of most unbending NEC members in her support for then leadership.

She's facing a challenge by Jermain Jackman; and the debate is whether Momentum ballot their members about this.

It's fun to see a lot of people are shocked and think she should automatically be endorsed as she is the incumbent sitting canidiate; of course these are the same people who want mandatory re-selection... the old rule about every faction holding every position...

[Blair]

It's worth noting that the Youth Officer is elected by a 50/50 member/TU electoral college, with the TU votes being cast by general secretaries rather than young members in their unions. 2 affiliate nominations are needed to get on the ballot, meaning that candidates without any union support can easily be kept off.

McNeill seems to be a genuinely terrible individual in just about every respect, but (?) she's got the support of Unite and I think of most of the smaller left-wing unions.

Oh Joy- I keep forgetting how many parts of the party still have a bizarre electoral college. I can't complain as irrc it made sure Carolyn Harris is Welsh Labour Deputy... well I can complain there's no justification to not have OMOV in all internal elections.

In fact Youth Officer is probably the area least relevant to Trade Unions! They already get NEC seats & ensure that virtually everything else is kept within their remit.

[Blair]

In Good News there's no-one absolutely criminal on this slate & it could be a lot worse.

In bad news Laura Pidcock is going to be on the NEC.

https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1280989143343026179

[Blair]

No idea if it's true but apparantly Lansman was hoping to remain on the NEC; yet didn't get on the slate. He's not the first high ranking labour offical to get booted off the NEC but still a sign of the times on the left.

To clarify, Henderson is pretty much an outright TERF and Pidcock (like Burgon) is seen as dodgy.

I think she's on the officer group of the NEC so was included to stop that list getting redrawn.

I know we'll get a whole host of randoms trying or succeeding in running but surely these slates alone mean that the CLP section (which is currently 7-2 anti-leadership) will mean the left losing another person even on a very bad.

I'm thinking aloud but I never understood why the left didn't try add regional seats to the CLP section when they enlarged it; I'm pretty sure some regions will always vote on mass for the left...

[Blair]

The sound is me banging my head against the wall.

This is the second week that Ed has been briefed against in the Sunday Times.

Last week had a reference to his 'predators' speech in 2013 & this one mentions Gordon so whoever is doing this is clearly hung up on the past.

I have no idea who it is but it's petty, destructive & serves no purpose; like this is what I call cruel briefing- it serves for no reason then to generate an awful story & slag someones character. Like please brief about current policy splits, debates etc but who cares frankly what Gordon Brown did or didn't say?

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1282220526115618817

[Blair]

This is more signifcant news for the movement & would be interested to hear others thoughts....

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/hardman-howard-beckett-takes-step-closer-to-becoming-unite-chief-and-thorn-in-sir-keir-starmers-side-3n9zw2w2d

[Blair]

Wes Streeting gets unfairly maligned as being ideologically a blairite; he isn't. He is a member of the Labour Right & a defender of the New Labour years but he isn't an ideological Blairite in his actual policy views.

OK then, not everybody will understand the code

Streeting and McFadden, respectively.

ah, ok.
Why do I get the impression Wes Streeting likes intrigue of this sort too much for his own good?

He has a repuatation for slagging off the leadership but in his defense he was laregly always willing to do it publicly, with his name attached.

He filled the gap of the Brownite bag carries who quit parliament in a huff in 2017 who use to enjoy being the 'Labour sources' who briefed against Jeremy.

[Blair]

It was reasonably obvious who was briefing last week. It's less obvious this week, because the presumed culprit last week was much closer to Blair than to Brown. Nevertheless, given that Starmer is prepared to be very ruthless when it suits him and that from a party management perspective there are benefits from booting a mediocre right-winger off the frontbenches pour encourager les autres, this seems like a dangerous game to play.

Interesting to hear others thoughts but my view is that the Shadow Treasury team hasn't been as on top of the brief as I expected.

Anneliese Dodds had a very big jump from a junior frontbencher to Shadow Chancellor (a job which requires you to have sharp elbows over colleagues & extensive media performances)

The response to the mini Budget last week seemed a bit flat; there's been this back & forth over a wealth tax in the past few days, there was a cock up on the Finnance Bill & there hasn't been as much joined up approaches as I'd like to have seen with say DWP, BEIS & co about what Labours covid approach would be.

I appreciate that this is extremely difficult especially when Starmer is clearly trying to repair the Labour brand; a brand which is seen as overspending, profligate and reckless (attacks we've faced in nearly every election since 2010; we did best in the one where it didn't come up; 2017)

I think it's likely to see the team shuffled; I was surpised that several people like Angela Eagle, Alison McGovern and others didn't get the junior positions

[Blair]

In addition to the interactions from student politics, Streeting retains some of the rhetorical mannerisms you'd expect from a Labour Students hack, which is a red rag to a bull for the online left. He's also Jewish, which gave him extra reasons to be unhappy about a lot of what went on under Corbyn, and which is definitely relevant to some of the assumptions parts of the online left make about him.

I didn't know that he was.

I think the problem that Wes has is that it appears* he's become an MP to spend his entire time battling inside the movement. The most effective MPs tend to be the ones who don't spend their whole time debating slates, complaining about NEC decisions or so forth; in fact that reason that Keir won was because he actively avoided publicly getting involded in the drama.

Yes of course a good party need a mix; the MPs willing to defend you when you've done something stupid & the MPs willing to do the heavy lifting internally but it's a thankless job & one that leads you to wondering what you've achieved...it's parallel (in my head) to the problem we had when we had an entire shadow cabinet made up of New Labour SPADs.



*I say this knowing he is a very effective constituency MP who is on top of his brief at the Treasury & who knows how to win in a marginal seat- it's just the appearance he gives off to those of us involded doesn't reflect this.

[Blair]

Signifcant news but one that I seem to think was widely know to be happening?

Unison & Prentis himself where Keirs biggest supporters in the leadership race; gave him money & a big splash in early January (it was when they backed him that I became a lot more confident)

It means we have three General Secretary Elections coming up... but (and tell me if I'm wrong) I don't think they're at all as important as they'd be if say Long-Bailey or Lavery was Leader.

https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1282619828927442946

[Blair]

In a surpise to none of us Clive Lewis is proceeding to do his best to piss on the Leadership.

His transformation from the heir to Corbyn to well whatever his role is now is remarkable...

[Blair]

Talk about being subtle... there's more at the bottom if you follow the link.

It's baffling that UNITE don't realise that they do not have a majority if they purely rely on the left unions & CLP reps... they've lost every internal battle in the last 6 months.... but of course this is about winning control of UNITE first.

https://twitter.com/BeckettUnite/status/1283337673868967937