Elizabeth Warren 2020 Megathread v2 (pg 35 - Emily List support)

[Beet]

LOL at all the butthurt that she didn't shake his hand. Look at it from her standpoint, assuming he said what was reported. He would rather lie and let her take the heat for being cast as the dishonest one than own up to the truth. I wouldn't shake the hand of a person who did that either. She wanted to clarify it before making up and he refused. But of course people will always side with the man- when the man shows anger, he's rewarded, when the woman shows anger, she's punished. We still live in a misogynistic society and the Democratic Party is not immune to it, unfortunately. And yeah, people saying they prefer Biden is no surprise, people vote based on personality not policy... up until now the Berners were the only exception to this but now they have shown themselves no exception either.

Warren has bounced from one distortion to another since she entered the race. There is no reason to take her word over Sanders.

Even if all of this is predicated on a misunderstanding - at this point the most charitable interpretation that has any plausibility-  Warren's staff put out a coordinated leak of a private conversation between the two candidates that had occurred years before. This was done in an eleventh-hour moment of desperation, for the sole sake of damaging Sanders, and with Waren's direct complicity.

The response from Warren supporters like you has been to invoke Me Too, insult Democratic primary voters, and in at least one particularly grotesque case on this forum, make a direct comparison with rape.

There aren't words strong enough to express how disgusting this is. Yet you gloat about "butthurt" and insist that this can only be the product of "misogyny"? Grow up.

Give it a rest. The reason I brought up misogyny is that people are taking sides in a "he said, she said" where we have no evidence whatsoever what really happened. Even if you take the neutral position that we can't assume he said it, by the same account we can't assume she's lying about it. Your opinion of their past character or behavior has no bearing on whether this one event occurred or not. What a politician like Sanders said in public in 1988 with nothing at stake is not necessarily reflective of what he said in private. What he believed prior to 2016 when he did not want to run for president, may have no bearing on what he would have said after the victory of Donald Trump about whether a woman could beat him.

As far as her leaking the conversation, it came from someone close to her, but we don't know the exact circumstances. She has denied leaking it. For all we know it is rogue elements on her staff who leaked it, and instead of throwing them under the bus she is standing by them. And if she did approve the leak, I agree it would be skeevy, but it doesn't justify the massive overreaction we've seen.

[Hollywood]

LOL at all the butthurt that she didn't shake his hand. Look at it from her standpoint, assuming he said what was reported. He would rather lie and let her take the heat for being cast as the dishonest one than own up to the truth. I wouldn't shake the hand of a person who did that either. She wanted to clarify it before making up and he refused. But of course people will always side with the man- when the man shows anger, he's rewarded, when the woman shows anger, she's punished. We still live in a misogynistic society and the Democratic Party is not immune to it, unfortunately. And yeah, people saying they prefer Biden is no surprise, people vote based on personality not policy... up until now the Berners were the only exception to this but now they have shown themselves no exception either.

Warren has bounced from one distortion to another since she entered the race. There is no reason to take her word over Sanders.

Even if all of this is predicated on a misunderstanding - at this point the most charitable interpretation that has any plausibility-  Warren's staff put out a coordinated leak of a private conversation between the two candidates that had occurred years before. This was done in an eleventh-hour moment of desperation, for the sole sake of damaging Sanders, and with Waren's direct complicity.

The response from Warren supporters like you has been to invoke Me Too, insult Democratic primary voters, and in at least one particularly grotesque case on this forum, make a direct comparison with rape.

There aren't words strong enough to express how disgusting this is. Yet you gloat about "butthurt" and insist that this can only be the product of "misogyny"? Grow up.

Give it a rest. The reason I brought up misogyny is that people are taking sides in a "he said, she said" where we have no evidence whatsoever what really happened. Even if you take the neutral position that we can't assume he said it, by the same account we can't assume she's lying about it. Your opinion of their past character or behavior has no bearing on whether this one event occurred or not. What a politician like Sanders said in public in 1988 with nothing at stake is not necessarily reflective of what he said in private. What he believed prior to 2016 when he did not want to run for president, may have no bearing on what he would have said after the victory of Donald Trump about whether a woman could beat him.

As far as her leaking the conversation, it came from someone close to her, but we don't know the exact circumstances. She has denied leaking it. For all we know it is rogue elements on her staff who leaked it, and instead of throwing them under the bus she is standing by them. And if she did approve the leak, I agree it would be skeevy, but it doesn't justify the massive overreaction we've seen.

Erin Burnett said it was clearly leaked by Warren to CNN. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxmE7pPqLTA

[bilaps]

LOL at all the butthurt that she didn't shake his hand. Look at it from her standpoint, assuming he said what was reported. He would rather lie and let her take the heat for being cast as the dishonest one than own up to the truth. I wouldn't shake the hand of a person who did that either. She wanted to clarify it before making up and he refused. But of course people will always side with the man- when the man shows anger, he's rewarded, when the woman shows anger, she's punished. We still live in a misogynistic society and the Democratic Party is not immune to it, unfortunately. And yeah, people saying they prefer Biden is no surprise, people vote based on personality not policy... up until now the Berners were the only exception to this but now they have shown themselves no exception either.

Warren has bounced from one distortion to another since she entered the race. There is no reason to take her word over Sanders.

Even if all of this is predicated on a misunderstanding - at this point the most charitable interpretation that has any plausibility-  Warren's staff put out a coordinated leak of a private conversation between the two candidates that had occurred years before. This was done in an eleventh-hour moment of desperation, for the sole sake of damaging Sanders, and with Waren's direct complicity.

The response from Warren supporters like you has been to invoke Me Too, insult Democratic primary voters, and in at least one particularly grotesque case on this forum, make a direct comparison with rape.

There aren't words strong enough to express how disgusting this is. Yet you gloat about "butthurt" and insist that this can only be the product of "misogyny"? Grow up.

Give it a rest. The reason I brought up misogyny is that people are taking sides in a "he said, she said" where we have no evidence whatsoever what really happened. Even if you take the neutral position that we can't assume he said it, by the same account we can't assume she's lying about it. Your opinion of their past character or behavior has no bearing on whether this one event occurred or not. What a politician like Sanders said in public in 1988 with nothing at stake is not necessarily reflective of what he said in private. What he believed prior to 2016 when he did not want to run for president, may have no bearing on what he would have said after the victory of Donald Trump about whether a woman could beat him.

As far as her leaking the conversation, it came from someone close to her, but we don't know the exact circumstances. She has denied leaking it. For all we know it is rogue elements on her staff who leaked it, and instead of throwing them under the bus she is standing by them. And if she did approve the leak, I agree it would be skeevy, but it doesn't justify the massive overreaction we've seen.

You admit there is no evidence. Then, you say it's not important in he said she said situation the entire history of one person's career. If we don't have evidence, then personal history is hugely important.

And as far as her leaking. Whoever watched debate last night should have ZERO questions that this was Warren's campaign plan all along and it's done with CNN's blessing.

[YE]

Won't split any posts up but for now on, please take all commentary specifically related to the post-debate "interaction" between her and Sanders here: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=354556.0

[Florida Man for Crime]

So now all the Bernie Sanders supporters have decided that they no longer like the only other candidate besides Sanders who supports a wealth tax etc, and if they can't have Bernie, they would rather have the guy (Biden) that just 24 hours ago many of the same people were attacking for his willingness to cut social security and his vote in favor of the Iraq war.

Doesn't really make sense from a policy perspective, but interesting change of perspective, I guess...

If you take her word for it, sure. Why should you?

The real question is that regardless of what was said in some conversation 1 year ago, why do you care? What does any of this have to do with the policies supported by either Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren?

If you want to make your choice of who to support based on things other than policy, then fine. There are some legitimate reasons to support/oppose candidates that are not directly based on policy. But if so, then one should say (or at least be honest with oneself) that one doesn't vote based on policy, and doesn't prioritize progressive policy positions above other aims.

[Donerail]

So now all the Bernie Sanders supporters have decided that they no longer like the only other candidate besides Sanders who supports a wealth tax etc, and if they can't have Bernie, they would rather have the guy (Biden) that just 24 hours ago many of the same people were attacking for his willingness to cut social security and his vote in favor of the Iraq war.

Doesn't really make sense from a policy perspective, but interesting change of perspective, I guess...

If you take her word for it, sure. Why should you?

The real question is that regardless of what was said in some conversation 1 year ago, why do you care? What does any of this have to do with the policies supported by either Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren?

If you want to make your choice of who to support based on things other than policy, then fine. There are some legitimate reasons to support/oppose candidates that are not directly based on policy. But if so, then one should say (or at least be honest with oneself) that one doesn't vote based on policy, and doesn't prioritize progressive policy positions above other aims.

"Progressive policy positions" mean very little when there is no reason to believe a candidate is embracing them sincerely, or intends to follow through when in office.

[Warren 4 Secretary of Everything]

So now all the Bernie Sanders supporters have decided that they no longer like the only other candidate besides Sanders who supports a wealth tax etc, and if they can't have Bernie, they would rather have the guy (Biden) that just 24 hours ago many of the same people were attacking for his willingness to cut social security and his vote in favor of the Iraq war.

Doesn't really make sense from a policy perspective, but interesting change of perspective, I guess...

If you take her word for it, sure. Why should you?

The real question is that regardless of what was said in some conversation 1 year ago, why do you care? What does any of this have to do with the policies supported by either Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren?

If you want to make your choice of who to support based on things other than policy, then fine. There are some legitimate reasons to support/oppose candidates that are not directly based on policy. But if so, then one should say (or at least be honest with oneself) that one doesn't vote based on policy, and doesn't prioritize progressive policy positions above other aims.

"Progressive policy positions" mean very little when there is no reason to believe a candidate is embracing them sincerely, or intends to follow through when in office.

Warren’s been supporting these policies since she entered public life. Bernie wanted her to run 4 years ago and deferred to her. Questioning her sincerity is being done out of spite and anger at her perceived slight against Bernie.

[GoTfan]

So now all the Bernie Sanders supporters have decided that they no longer like the only other candidate besides Sanders who supports a wealth tax etc, and if they can't have Bernie, they would rather have the guy (Biden) that just 24 hours ago many of the same people were attacking for his willingness to cut social security and his vote in favor of the Iraq war.

Doesn't really make sense from a policy perspective, but interesting change of perspective, I guess...

If you take her word for it, sure. Why should you?

The real question is that regardless of what was said in some conversation 1 year ago, why do you care? What does any of this have to do with the policies supported by either Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren?

If you want to make your choice of who to support based on things other than policy, then fine. There are some legitimate reasons to support/oppose candidates that are not directly based on policy. But if so, then one should say (or at least be honest with oneself) that one doesn't vote based on policy, and doesn't prioritize progressive policy positions above other aims.

"Progressive policy positions" mean very little when there is no reason to believe a candidate is embracing them sincerely, or intends to follow through when in office.

Warren’s been supporting these policies since she entered public life. Bernie wanted her to run 4 years ago and deferred to her. Questioning her sincerity is being done out of spite and anger at her perceived slight against Bernie.

Warren's completely sincere?

Why did she waffle on Medicare for All?

[Progressive Pessimist]

So now all the Bernie Sanders supporters have decided that they no longer like the only other candidate besides Sanders who supports a wealth tax etc, and if they can't have Bernie, they would rather have the guy (Biden) that just 24 hours ago many of the same people were attacking for his willingness to cut social security and his vote in favor of the Iraq war.

Doesn't really make sense from a policy perspective, but interesting change of perspective, I guess...

Here's a shocker --- I guess voters don't vote based on policy ---- , and that many self-proclaimed "progressive" voters actually may care about some other things more than progressive policies.

If so, then why did i.e. Beto O'Rourke get attacked, apparently just for policy reasons, because of not being sufficiently progressive and pure like Bernie was? Just didn't like Beto's style I guess, apparently it wasn't about policy after all, if Biden is now looking so good?

Thank you! I may not be 100% on board with either Sanders or Warren, but you are a breath of fresh air amidst all this hysteria speaking some much needed truth here.

 Isn't one of Sanders' mottos: "Not me. Us?" What happened to that? Some of his supporters seem to think it is really all about him. Some of them are resembling Trump's fanatical, cult-like, knee-jerk base as of late, and it is really disappointing to see. Personality based politics are an underrated cancer in our country. I've become convinced of that.

It's also disappointing because I've been a bit more receptive to Sanders this time and even more defensive of his usually much maligned following as of late, until now. This whole thing is reminding me why I was never able to bring myself to pull the lever for him in the 2016 primary, despite initially supporting him at the very beginning. It's especially disappointing to see such vitriolic reactions from posters who I like or respect on this very forum. It's really discouraging to my hopes that Democrats will end up united by the time we get a nominee and keep our priorities of defeating Trump and the GOP in mind.

I'm under the impression that both Sanders and Warren remember their conversation differently, or perhaps Warren misinterpreted what Sanders said. I am really baffled by the sharp response to Warren on this. Even if you don't like what she did, for a group of people who always insist that they are behind Sanders due to his principles, it shouldn't be that easy to kick any potential support for Warren to the curb.

And as for Biden being the supposed runner-up choice for some of these Sanders supporters in question, once the primary becomes a two-way contest between them, you can bet that they'll turn against Biden as easily as they did against Warren once Biden makes even the slightest criticism of Sanders. Prove me wrong.

This entire mindset does nothing except to help the powers that be which are supposed to be the ultimate adversary to the Sanders movement.

[Hollywood]

Wow.  A total decimation of anyone in my circle that supports Warren today.  She is officially Elvis and her fans are the lame parents that still listen to her horse####. 

[RussFeingoldWasRobbed]

So you guys are going to vote for that neoliberal clown against Warren because she accused Bernie of saying something that they, he probably actually said? God I hate this country!

[Hollywood]

So you guys are going to vote for that neoliberal clown against Warren because she accused Bernie of saying something that they, he probably actually said? God I hate this country!

Bernie Sanders supporters are very emotional people.  90% of them will get over it. 

[Pouring Rain and Blairing Music]

I still stand with Warren, full stop. The #NeverWarren crowd can go kick rocks!

[Dr. Arch]

So you guys are going to vote for that neoliberal clown against Warren because she accused Bernie of saying something that they, he probably actually said? God I hate this country!

Tough sh**t. At least your friends and family aren't being treated like trash and denied disaster aid because this administration is downright vile and inhuman (e.g. Maria in 2017 and earthquakes in Puerto Rico right now).

Worse of all, they're stuck in second grade citizen status. At least you get to vote, and politicians (read: Republicans in this case) have to at least pretend like they care.

You say that you hate this country, and you haven't felt its heel down your throat quite just yet.

Work to make it better. Your current rhetoric isn't helping to that end.

[GoTfan]

So you guys are going to vote for that neoliberal clown against Warren because she accused Bernie of saying something that they, he probably actually said? God I hate this country!

Tough sh**t. At least your friends and family aren't being treated like trash and denied disaster aid because this administration is downright vile and inhuman (e.g. Maria in 2017 and earthquakes in Puerto Rico right now).

Worse of all, they're stuck in second grade citizen status. At least you get to vote, and politicians (read: Republicans in this case) have to at least pretend like they care.

You say that you hate this country, and you haven't felt its heel down your throat quite just yet.

Work to make it better. Your current rhetoric isn't helping to that end.

Neither is the borderline psychotic hatred of Sanders about half the Democrats on this forum have.

[GP270watch]

 Hotmic moment pretty much proves Warren was telling the the truth. She was indignant and Bernie was stammering and acting like he didn't know what time it was.

 Go Liz, Go.

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

Hotmic moment pretty much proves Warren was telling the the truth. She was indignant and Bernie was stammering and acting like he didn't know what time it was.

 Go Liz, Go.

Or he was hurt that his friend would smear him like this, but go off.

[RussFeingoldWasRobbed]

So you guys are going to vote for that neoliberal clown against Warren because she accused Bernie of saying something that they, he probably actually said? God I hate this country!

Tough sh**t. At least your friends and family aren't being treated like trash and denied disaster aid because this administration is downright vile and inhuman (e.g. Maria in 2017 and earthquakes in Puerto Rico right now).

Worse of all, they're stuck in second grade citizen status. At least you get to vote, and politicians (read: Republicans in this case) have to at least pretend like they care.

You say that you hate this country, and you haven't felt its heel down your throat quite just yet.

Work to make it better. Your current rhetoric isn't helping to that end.

Oh please! It was a cynical  flippant comment that wasn't even totally serious and you give me this pouty lecture about how other people are worse off than me? Give me a break, lighten up!  I actually DO care about this country and it really makes me angry that people are going to hamper the progressive movement away over something like this.

[Pouring Rain and Blairing Music]

So you guys are going to vote for that neoliberal clown against Warren because she accused Bernie of saying something that they, he probably actually said? God I hate this country!

Tough sh**t. At least your friends and family aren't being treated like trash and denied disaster aid because this administration is downright vile and inhuman (e.g. Maria in 2017 and earthquakes in Puerto Rico right now).

Worse of all, they're stuck in second grade citizen status. At least you get to vote, and politicians (read: Republicans in this case) have to at least pretend like they care.

You say that you hate this country, and you haven't felt its heel down your throat quite just yet.

Work to make it better. Your current rhetoric isn't helping to that end.

Oh please! It was a cynical  flippant comment that wasn't even totally serious and you give me this pouty lecture about how other people are worse off than me? Give me a break, lighten up!  I actually DO care about this country and it really makes me angry that people are going to hamper the progressive movement away over something like this. If you don't like it, too bad! Learn to take a

I’m reminded of the LaFollette/Roosevelt split.

[KaiserDave]

I still stand with Warren, full stop. The #NeverWarren crowd can go kick rocks!

[Rookie Yinzer]

Hotmic moment pretty much proves Warren was telling the the truth. She was indignant and Bernie was stammering and acting like he didn't know what time it was.

 Go Liz, Go.

Or he was hurt that his friend would smear him like this, but go off.

It’s always everyone else, never Bernie. Y’all never hold this 80 year old man accountable for anything ever.

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

Hotmic moment pretty much proves Warren was telling the the truth. She was indignant and Bernie was stammering and acting like he didn't know what time it was.

 Go Liz, Go.

Or he was hurt that his friend would smear him like this, but go off.

It’s always everyone else, never Bernie. Y’all never hold this 80 year old man accountable for anything ever.

There's nothing to hold him accountable for. I'm very, very clear on my views on this entire spat.

[Hollywood]

Hotmic moment pretty much proves Warren was telling the the truth. She was indignant and Bernie was stammering and acting like he didn't know what time it was.

 Go Liz, Go.

Or he was hurt that his friend would smear him like this, but go off.

It’s always everyone else, never Bernie. Y’all never hold this 80 year old man accountable for anything ever.

I can't hold him accountable for telling his truth.  He's disputing a verifiable liar. 

I can hold Warren accountable for rejecting Bernie's handshake.  It's low class.  Being called a liar is not an excuse.  If that's the way she's going to conduct herself, she might as well go back to being Dr. Phil's Financial guru.   

[Heebie Jeebie]

https://mobile.twitter.com/karavoght/status/1218171896086388737

[GP270watch]

 It's funny how despite all of Bernie's rhetoric the only candidate the big money class really fears in Elizabeth Warren. Ask yourself why that is?