What will you do after the Rapture?

[12th Doctor]

 And if I  have the gift of prophecy. He brings down to nothing the dignity of even this gift, which, nevertheless, he had preferred to all others. To know all mysteries, might seem to be added to the term prophecy, as an explanation, but as the term knowledge is immediately added, of which he had previously made mention by itself, (1 Corinthians 14:8,) it will deserve your consideration, whether the knowledge of mysteries may not be used here to mean wisdom. As for myself, while I would not venture to affirm that it is so, I am much inclined to that opinion.

I'm not exactly sure about what you mean here.  Are you saying that this passage is meant to imply that wisdom, not love is important?

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I agree, clearly our faith is important.  I do not arguee against that, but it is by our good works that we find the truth of faith.  Our works are needed to give life to our faith, as James suggests.

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One thing that theologins often find to be an oddity about Christianity is that the leader of Christianity (Christ) gives very few specific commandments compared to the leaders of the other world faiths.  Now, there is much that can be infered through Christ's teachings, but only a handful of things that Christ tells us to do, directly.  These are the only ones that I can think of, off hand, that have a direct relation to the lay faithful.

"Love one another, as I have loved you"

"Love God with all your heart, all of your soul and all your mind and love your neighbor as yourself"

"Love your enemy"

Pray for one another"

Now, there are many other things that we know from Jesus' teachings, but those are the things that he specifically tells us to do, indicating that they are the most important above all.

Now, there is one more direct commandment, but I won't get into that, because it will just start another constroversy.

Anyway, my point is that it is clear that, from Christ's own teaching, that the best way for us to show our love for God is by showing our love for our fellow man.

[12th Doctor]

A great thread. Supersoulty, you've done a great job defending your position, kudos.

Thank you.  Don't leave Bono out.  Though we disagree, I must credit him for his knowledge.

Thank you, though you yourself also deserve this compliment.

EDIT: And sorry i took so long to answer.

It's alright, I wasn't here anyway.  I went out to Boarders.  Thank you for the compliment.

[phk]

There is no such thing as Rapture.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I know many of you think it is a myth or story.  But for a minute, imagine it being true as described in the Left Behind books.  One day, millions of people are missing.  What will you do?  Switch to Christianity?

Point 1

The "Left Behind" series has it wrong....it is NOT possible for those left behind to come to Christ, just as it was not possible for those outside of the ark to be saved once Noah entered the ark, and just as it was not possible for those in Sodom to be saved once Lot left town.

Luke 17:26-29 26“Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.  28It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all."

---

Point 2

Also, NOWHERE in the bible does it identify the 144,000 as evangelists, as the “Left Behind” series claims; but the bible does identify them as 144,000 Jews.

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Point 3

The Rapture IS a biblical teaching:  1Th 5:16-17 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

---

Point 5
 
Those on this thread who are claiming that only the tribes of Benjamin and Judah were left need to read their bibles.

Obviously the “teachers of the law” in Jesus’ day were from the tribe of Levi.  Also, members of the tribe of Asher are mentioned as being present during Jesus’ day: Luke 2:36 “There was also a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher.”

What’s more, the Old Testament books of Ezra and Nehemiah record that there were descendants from ALL TWELVE TRIBES that returned from exile in Babylon.

---

Point 6

The Rapture does NOT precede the Tribulation, rather it occurs sometime in the second half (last 3 1/2 years) of the tribulation.  (Too many verses to quote)

---

Point 7

The Rapture is NOT imminent, because the AntiChrist must first appear and take his seat in a rebuilt Jewish Temple and proclaim himself to be God...which is the point of Paul’s 2Thessalonians.

[??????????]

The idea that their is one Anti Christ is really nonsense. The Anti Christ is a person male or female who denies Christ and his godliness.

[Gabu]

The idea that their is one Anti Christ is really nonsense. The Anti Christ is a person male or female who denies Christ and his godliness.

Er, that would mean that there are more anti-Christs than Christians.

[??????????]

The idea that their is one Anti Christ is really nonsense. The Anti Christ is a person male or female who denies Christ and his godliness.

Er, that would mean that there are more anti-Christs than Christians.

Very true.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

The idea that their is one Anti Christ is really nonsense. The Anti Christ is a person male or female who denies Christ and his godliness.

Er, that would mean that there are more anti-Christs than Christians.

Very true.

Yes, little ones, anyone that denies Jesus is an "AntiChrist", just as the scriptures say.  But, if you weren't trying to be soo cute, you would also see that the scripture, while recognizing anyone who denies Jesus as an "AntiChrist", also points to a future point in time when "the" AntiChrist makes himself known to the world:

1 John 2:18
Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

1 John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist–he denies the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3
but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

2Thes 2:3-4 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

---

Will the main AntiChrist reveal himself sometime in the future?  Yes, just as Jesus will reveal himself to the world at some point in the future.

Does this mean that the spirit of the AntiChrist is not already in the world?  No, not any more than Jesus not currently ruling the world means that his Spirit is not living in those who believe in him.

Does the current absence of the AntiChrist mean that other people currently can't be "antiChrists" themselves?  No, just as Jesus' current absence doesn't mean there can't currently be "Christians" in the world.

---

Now do you understand?  I hope so.  Maybe next time I can talk to you as an adult in Christ and not as a child in Christ.

[Gabu]

Very true.

Okay, just making sure that I'm an anti-Christ.

[??????????]

Dont get upset JMF. We already know most protestants are pretty much absolutely wrong in their faith but you don't have to take it out on me please.

[phk]

I'm a proud Anti-Christ and Anti-Muhammad.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Dont get upset JMF. We already know most protestants are pretty much absolutely wrong in their faith but you don't have to take it out on me please.

Trying to play the role of the victim again, are you?

Actually, my comments were directed at your empty rebuttal of my post when you attempting to refute something I never claimed....I never claimed there was one single antiChrist, rather I was referring to the main antiChrist having to establish his rule on earth before the Second Coming can occur.  If you want to try to refute that, then be my guest.

As to what protestants believe...your church currently holds positions concerning the Endtimes that the early church fathers considered condemnable heresy.  So, if you place such a high value on the "traditions" and opinions of the early church fathers, then why are you out of step with them?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

ah, more Protestant stereotyping, my church's view on this end times stuff is much closer to the catholic one than the fundies, and the Bible even says no one would be able to predict or know when the end of the world comes, meaning the fundies who scream that the end is near are actually committing heresy.

I once read a good essay from a Biblical scholar arguing that the book of Revelations has already happened, it's a description of WWII and that Hitler was the Antichrist. I wish I could find it somewhere, it's a good read.

Whatever the case soulty likes to call me ignorant of Catholicism, but the simple fact that he has claimed that Lutherans and Episcopalians are the only Protestants who don't beleive in the Rapture garbage and that Methodists are Calvinists is proof that he is far more ignorant of Protestatism. That and his constant insistance that almost all Protestants don't consider Catholics Christian.

[Bono]

meaning the fundies who scream that the end is near are actually committing heresy.

Be sure to stone them next time you see them.

[??????????]

Dont get upset JMF. We already know most protestants are pretty much absolutely wrong in their faith but you don't have to take it out on me please.

Trying to play the role of the victim again, are you?

Actually, my comments were directed at your empty rebuttal of my post when you attempting to refute something I never claimed....I never claimed there was one single antiChrist, rather I was referring to the main antiChrist having to establish his rule on earth before the Second Coming can occur.  If you want to try to refute that, then be my guest.

As to what protestants believe...your church currently holds positions concerning the Endtimes that the early church fathers considered condemnable heresy.  So, if you place such a high value on the "traditions" and opinions of the early church fathers, then why are you out of step with them?

I hold allegiance to no earthly church. The majority of them are terribly flawed in their thinking and don't even follow the bible.

[J.R. Brown]

Dont get upset JMF. We already know most protestants are pretty much absolutely wrong in their faith but you don't have to take it out on me please.

Trying to play the role of the victim again, are you?

Actually, my comments were directed at your empty rebuttal of my post when you attempting to refute something I never claimed....I never claimed there was one single antiChrist, rather I was referring to the main antiChrist having to establish his rule on earth before the Second Coming can occur.  If you want to try to refute that, then be my guest.

As to what protestants believe...your church currently holds positions concerning the Endtimes that the early church fathers considered condemnable heresy.  So, if you place such a high value on the "traditions" and opinions of the early church fathers, then why are you out of step with them?

I hold allegiance to no earthly church. The majority of them are terribly flawed in their thinking and don't even follow the bible.

Because you are obviously on the same level as God, so you are the only one on Earth who understands the true meaning of the Bible. Come on, no one truly understands the Bible. You probably also believe that you are more righteous than any Earthly church.

[??????????]

Dont get upset JMF. We already know most protestants are pretty much absolutely wrong in their faith but you don't have to take it out on me please.

Trying to play the role of the victim again, are you?

Actually, my comments were directed at your empty rebuttal of my post when you attempting to refute something I never claimed....I never claimed there was one single antiChrist, rather I was referring to the main antiChrist having to establish his rule on earth before the Second Coming can occur.  If you want to try to refute that, then be my guest.

As to what protestants believe...your church currently holds positions concerning the Endtimes that the early church fathers considered condemnable heresy.  So, if you place such a high value on the "traditions" and opinions of the early church fathers, then why are you out of step with them?

I hold allegiance to no earthly church. The majority of them are terribly flawed in their thinking and don't even follow the bible.

Because you are obviously on the same level as God, so you are the only one on Earth who understands the true meaning of the Bible. Come on, no one truly understands the Bible. You probably also believe that you are more righteous than any Earthly church.

Nope, not at all. But my reading of the bible has helped me come to the conclusion that many churches are very wrong in their beliefs, some less then others. Of course that bible is MEANT to be read by the individual and not interpreted for them by some earthly church. It's all there written in the bible if you take the time and care to read it.

[J.R. Brown]

Dont get upset JMF. We already know most protestants are pretty much absolutely wrong in their faith but you don't have to take it out on me please.

Trying to play the role of the victim again, are you?

Actually, my comments were directed at your empty rebuttal of my post when you attempting to refute something I never claimed....I never claimed there was one single antiChrist, rather I was referring to the main antiChrist having to establish his rule on earth before the Second Coming can occur.  If you want to try to refute that, then be my guest.

As to what protestants believe...your church currently holds positions concerning the Endtimes that the early church fathers considered condemnable heresy.  So, if you place such a high value on the "traditions" and opinions of the early church fathers, then why are you out of step with them?

I hold allegiance to no earthly church. The majority of them are terribly flawed in their thinking and don't even follow the bible.

Because you are obviously on the same level as God, so you are the only one on Earth who understands the true meaning of the Bible. Come on, no one truly understands the Bible. You probably also believe that you are more righteous than any Earthly church.

Nope, not at all. But my reading of the bible has helped me come to the conclusion that many churches are very wrong in their beliefs, some less then others. Of course that bible is MEANT to be read by the individual and not interpreted for them by some earthly church. It's all there written in the bible if you take the time and care to read it.

You're right, the bible is meant to be read by the individual, and a church is a group of individuals who have come to the same conclusion of the meaning of the bible. I haven't read the entire bible yet since I have just recently began to seek God in my own life, but I have read some of it and from what I gathered, no one is righteous and any one who claims to be more righteous than anyone else is simply wrong.

[??????????]

Dont get upset JMF. We already know most protestants are pretty much absolutely wrong in their faith but you don't have to take it out on me please.

Trying to play the role of the victim again, are you?

Actually, my comments were directed at your empty rebuttal of my post when you attempting to refute something I never claimed....I never claimed there was one single antiChrist, rather I was referring to the main antiChrist having to establish his rule on earth before the Second Coming can occur.  If you want to try to refute that, then be my guest.

As to what protestants believe...your church currently holds positions concerning the Endtimes that the early church fathers considered condemnable heresy.  So, if you place such a high value on the "traditions" and opinions of the early church fathers, then why are you out of step with them?

I hold allegiance to no earthly church. The majority of them are terribly flawed in their thinking and don't even follow the bible.

Because you are obviously on the same level as God, so you are the only one on Earth who understands the true meaning of the Bible. Come on, no one truly understands the Bible. You probably also believe that you are more righteous than any Earthly church.

Nope, not at all. But my reading of the bible has helped me come to the conclusion that many churches are very wrong in their beliefs, some less then others. Of course that bible is MEANT to be read by the individual and not interpreted for them by some earthly church. It's all there written in the bible if you take the time and care to read it.

You're right, the bible is meant to be read by the individual, and a church is a group of individuals who have come to the same conclusion of the meaning of the bible. I haven't read the entire bible yet since I have just recently began to seek God in my own life, but I have read some of it and from what I gathered, no one is righteous and any one who claims to be more righteous than anyone else is simply wrong.

Yes, but often church leaders either unknowingly or in some cases (LDS and JW's) knowingly mislead their followers to suit their agendas. This is considered a very serious sin in the bible. I do not claim to be righteous but I know what I read as the bible was written to be simply understood. Their is no mystery or questions with the bible as the bible says, "God is not the author of confusion". I don't claim to be any better then any other sinner but I do know what is right and what is wrong and to point out when something is glaringly wrong, which IS the job of a good Christian.

[J.R. Brown]

Dont get upset JMF. We already know most protestants are pretty much absolutely wrong in their faith but you don't have to take it out on me please.

Trying to play the role of the victim again, are you?

Actually, my comments were directed at your empty rebuttal of my post when you attempting to refute something I never claimed....I never claimed there was one single antiChrist, rather I was referring to the main antiChrist having to establish his rule on earth before the Second Coming can occur.  If you want to try to refute that, then be my guest.

As to what protestants believe...your church currently holds positions concerning the Endtimes that the early church fathers considered condemnable heresy.  So, if you place such a high value on the "traditions" and opinions of the early church fathers, then why are you out of step with them?

I hold allegiance to no earthly church. The majority of them are terribly flawed in their thinking and don't even follow the bible.

Because you are obviously on the same level as God, so you are the only one on Earth who understands the true meaning of the Bible. Come on, no one truly understands the Bible. You probably also believe that you are more righteous than any Earthly church.

Nope, not at all. But my reading of the bible has helped me come to the conclusion that many churches are very wrong in their beliefs, some less then others. Of course that bible is MEANT to be read by the individual and not interpreted for them by some earthly church. It's all there written in the bible if you take the time and care to read it.

You're right, the bible is meant to be read by the individual, and a church is a group of individuals who have come to the same conclusion of the meaning of the bible. I haven't read the entire bible yet since I have just recently began to seek God in my own life, but I have read some of it and from what I gathered, no one is righteous and any one who claims to be more righteous than anyone else is simply wrong.

Yes, but often church leaders either unknowingly or in some cases (LDS and JW's) knowingly mislead their followers to suit their agendas. This is considered a very serious sin in the bible. I do not claim to be righteous but I know what I read as the bible was written to be simply understood. Their is no mystery or questions with the bible as the bible says, "God is not the author of confusion". I don't claim to be any better then any other sinner but I do know what is right and what is wrong and to point out when something is glaringly wrong, which IS the job of a good Christian.

What would you consider being glaringly wrong within the church? The general message of the bible is simple, but humans make it difficult to understand by publishing it in language that is very difficult to to get through, like the King James Version, I know I have a hard time getting through all of those thous and arts. I prefer NIV over KJV anyday of the week. Have you ever read Romans? I'm going through it right now and I don't think it's as simple as you seem to think it is. There are some very deep messages within the text.

Were you raised a Christian? I wasn't and right now am trying to learn as much as I can. So, if you were taught this stuff from a very young age it may seem simple to you, but for people who have never heard any of this or had any formal teaching, it may be more difficult to understand.

[Gabu]

Their is no mystery or questions with the bible as the bible says, "God is not the author of confusion".

Given the sheer magnitude of the number of Christian denominations, all of which presumably disagree on at least one point in the Bible, it seems to me that God was, whether he meant to be or not.

[??????????]

Old English really isnt that hard to understand. Why would God choose to hide messages in the scripture? Its very simple, is God the author of confusion or would God lie to us or try to hide things?

[??????????]

Their is no mystery or questions with the bible as the bible says, "God is not the author of confusion".

Given the sheer magnitude of the number of Christian denominations, all of which presumably disagree on at least one point in the Bible, it seems to me that God was, whether he meant to be or not.

That is because flawed humans have either intentionally or unintentionally made up beliefs to fit their own agendas. For examples of that see the LDS or Jehovahs Witness.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

That is because flawed humans have either intentionally or unintentionally made up beliefs to fit their own agendas. For examples of that see the LDS or Jehovahs Witness.

I find any argument over "the one true religion" highly amusing.

[??????????]

That is because flawed humans have either intentionally or unintentionally made up beliefs to fit their own agendas. For examples of that see the LDS or Jehovahs Witness.

I find any argument over "the one true religion" highly amusing.

This from "JFraud". Have you proved that Bush stole Kentucky yet?