What will you do after the Rapture?

[12th Doctor]

While we're on the twelve tribes, what were the twelve tribes, and where are they now.

(sorry if this is a stupid question )

Let's see which ones I can get without looking:

Judah
Benjamin
Levi
Dan
Joseph
Ruben
Simeon
Gad

ummmmm....

Naphtali
Zebulun
Asher
Issachar

Had to look for those ones.

Anyway, 10 of the 12 tribes vanished during the Babalonian Exile.  So there are only two left today:

Benjamin
Judah

[Richard]

While we're on the twelve tribes, what were the twelve tribes, and where are they now.

(sorry if this is a stupid question )

Let's see which ones I can get without looking:

Judah
Benjamin
Levi
Dan
Joseph
Ruben
Simeon
Gad

ummmmm....

Naphtali
Zebulun
Asher
Issachar

Had to look for those ones.

Anyway, 10 of the 12 tribes vanished during the Babalonian Exile.  So there are only two left today:

Benjamin
Judah

I don't know about that.  Some may not be able to trace back their heritage, but if you're the son of a son of a son of a son of a Levite, you're still a Levite, whether you know it or not.

[12th Doctor]

And if one is going to make an idiotic claim like "only 144,000 will be 'elected'", I like to prove to them that they are morons.

I would have said misguided instead of calling them morons. And I haven't read James. I've recently become a Christian and only know the basics. I've read Genesis in the OT and Matthew, Mark, Galatians,and am currently working on Romans. So I don't really know what is in James. But my growth group leader has always told me that works are not the only way into heaven.

Congratulations on your recent conversion.  I'm sorry for being hard on you.  I was not aware.  My fault.

Anyway, no they are not the only way, but "faith alone" is not truth either.  James tells us:

2:14-26

14
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

[12th Doctor]

While we're on the twelve tribes, what were the twelve tribes, and where are they now.

(sorry if this is a stupid question )

Let's see which ones I can get without looking:

Judah
Benjamin
Levi
Dan
Joseph
Ruben
Simeon
Gad

ummmmm....

Naphtali
Zebulun
Asher
Issachar

Had to look for those ones.

Anyway, 10 of the 12 tribes vanished during the Babalonian Exile.  So there are only two left today:

Benjamin
Judah

I don't know about that.  Some may not be able to trace back their heritage, but if you're the son of a son of a son of a son of a Levite, you're still a Levite, whether you know it or not.

The legend says that they were completely disbanded.  Some say that many of them were mixed with the local peoples, creating the Samaritans.  The tribe of Levi ceased to be, precisly because of who they were.  This helps to explain why the later temple preists were so inept and corrupt, they were true priest... they weren't Levites.  Thus, they really didn't have an understanding of the job.

[J.R. Brown]

And if one is going to make an idiotic claim like "only 144,000 will be 'elected'", I like to prove to them that they are morons.

I would have said misguided instead of calling them morons. And I haven't read James. I've recently become a Christian and only know the basics. I've read Genesis in the OT and Matthew, Mark, Galatians,and am currently working on Romans. So I don't really know what is in James. But my growth group leader has always told me that works are not the only way into heaven.

Congratulations on your recent conversion.  I'm sorry for being hard on you.  I was not aware.  My fault.

Anyway, no they are not the only way, but "faith alone" is not truth either.  James tells us:

2:14-26

14
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

I believe that if you have faith, good works will follow. So this passage really goes with my beliefs, and I hadn't read it before now.

[Richard]

Mr. Brown are you Catholic?

[12th Doctor]

And if one is going to make an idiotic claim like "only 144,000 will be 'elected'", I like to prove to them that they are morons.

I would have said misguided instead of calling them morons. And I haven't read James. I've recently become a Christian and only know the basics. I've read Genesis in the OT and Matthew, Mark, Galatians,and am currently working on Romans. So I don't really know what is in James. But my growth group leader has always told me that works are not the only way into heaven.

Congratulations on your recent conversion.  I'm sorry for being hard on you.  I was not aware.  My fault.

Anyway, no they are not the only way, but "faith alone" is not truth either.  James tells us:

2:14-26

14
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

I believe that if you have faith, good works will follow. So this passage really goes with my beliefs, and I hadn't read it before now.

#1 Not nessesarily so.  People have done terrible acts in the name of Christ, and I am sure that they really had faith in him.

#2 Certainly, peopel with no faith can do good works.

[J.R. Brown]

And if one is going to make an idiotic claim like "only 144,000 will be 'elected'", I like to prove to them that they are morons.

I would have said misguided instead of calling them morons. And I haven't read James. I've recently become a Christian and only know the basics. I've read Genesis in the OT and Matthew, Mark, Galatians,and am currently working on Romans. So I don't really know what is in James. But my growth group leader has always told me that works are not the only way into heaven.

Congratulations on your recent conversion.  I'm sorry for being hard on you.  I was not aware.  My fault.

Anyway, no they are not the only way, but "faith alone" is not truth either.  James tells us:

2:14-26

14
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

I believe that if you have faith, good works will follow. So this passage really goes with my beliefs, and I hadn't read it before now.

#1 Not nessesarily so.  People have done terrible acts in the name of Christ, and I am sure that they really had faith in him.

#2 Certainly, peopel with no faith can do good works.

I agree with that. Those that do terrible acts in the name of Christ may have strong faith, but misguided. And there are a lot of good people out there that do great things without faith. But if you have a strong faith and a good grasp of the teachings of Christ, good works should follow. Not always, but most of the time that happens.

[12th Doctor]

And if one is going to make an idiotic claim like "only 144,000 will be 'elected'", I like to prove to them that they are morons.

I would have said misguided instead of calling them morons. And I haven't read James. I've recently become a Christian and only know the basics. I've read Genesis in the OT and Matthew, Mark, Galatians,and am currently working on Romans. So I don't really know what is in James. But my growth group leader has always told me that works are not the only way into heaven.

Congratulations on your recent conversion.  I'm sorry for being hard on you.  I was not aware.  My fault.

Anyway, no they are not the only way, but "faith alone" is not truth either.  James tells us:

2:14-26

14
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

I believe that if you have faith, good works will follow. So this passage really goes with my beliefs, and I hadn't read it before now.

#1 Not nessesarily so.  People have done terrible acts in the name of Christ, and I am sure that they really had faith in him.

#2 Certainly, peopel with no faith can do good works.

I agree with that. Those that do terrible acts in the name of Christ may have strong faith, but misguided. And there are a lot of good people out there that do great things without faith. But if you have a strong faith and a good grasp of the teachings of Christ, good works should follow. Not always, but most of the time that happens.

True, but not nessesarily.  Surely, someone thought that they had a lot of faith and didn't have to do much about it, or else, why would James have any cause to write about it.

[J.R. Brown]

Hopefully, most people will try to justify their faith through good works.

[Gabu]

But if you have a strong faith and a good grasp of the teachings of Christ, good works should follow.

I think first and foremost you'd need the latter.  The most horrible things of all were done by the people with the strongest faiths of all.

[J.R. Brown]

But if you have a strong faith and a good grasp of the teachings of Christ, good works should follow.

I think first and foremost you'd need the latter.  The most horrible things of all were done by the people with the strongest faiths of all.

I have a very strong faith and those that commit terrible acts in the name of faith are severely misguided.

[Jake]

Thanks Richius and Supersoulty 

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

And if one is going to make an idiotic claim like "only 144,000 will be 'elected'", I like to prove to them that they are morons.

Do you believe in the rapture sir?

No, assuming that that is what Revelations is about (doubtful) it doesn't even happen in the Bible, the same way that Protestants champion.

most Protestants do NOT believe in the rapture. I haven't met a single mainstream one who does. It's just something that some fundies and some nutty offshoots like Jehova's Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists believe in.

[12th Doctor]

But if you have a strong faith and a good grasp of the teachings of Christ, good works should follow.

I think first and foremost you'd need the latter.  The most horrible things of all were done by the people with the strongest faiths of all.

I have a very strong faith and those that commit terrible acts in the name of faith are severely misguided.

Hypothetical situation:

There is one man who sees himself as being strongly faithful to Christ.  He prays, much.  However, he sees little reason to do things, like say, help the poor, be out in community.  Instead, he chooses to focus inward, concentrating on his own salvation.

Then, there is another man.  He believes that Christ was "an okay dude", but he does not believe in Christ as being the Son of God.  In fact.  He thinks that there might be a God, but to him, that doesn't matter much.  He focuses on help out the community in any way possible.  He helps the poor.  Visits people who are shut in.  He is a general philanthopist.

Who is, ultimatly, the better follower of Christ.  The one who believes in him strongly and focuses on his salvation, or the one who does not believe in him as being the Son of God, but does all the things that Christ tells us to do for our fellow man?  Who is more touched by God?

[12th Doctor]

And if one is going to make an idiotic claim like "only 144,000 will be 'elected'", I like to prove to them that they are morons.

Do you believe in the rapture sir?

No, assuming that that is what Revelations is about (doubtful) it doesn't even happen in the Bible, the same way that Protestants champion.

most Protestants do NOT believe in the rapture. I haven't met a single mainstream one who does. It's just something that some fundies and some nutty offshoots like Jehova's Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists believe in.

My expirience has been the opposite.  So many Protestants believe in that kind of "End of Days" Theology that some Catholics that I talk to are convinced that that is what our Church teaches.

[Richard]

And if one is going to make an idiotic claim like "only 144,000 will be 'elected'", I like to prove to them that they are morons.

Do you believe in the rapture sir?

No, assuming that that is what Revelations is about (doubtful) it doesn't even happen in the Bible, the same way that Protestants champion.

most Protestants do NOT believe in the rapture. I haven't met a single mainstream one who does.

You need to get out more.

[patrick1]

Hey Soulty, I'm with you 100%.  Faith is certainly vital yet so many people think just because they have faith that they are saved regardless of how they treat other people.  This is the same type of attitude that allows people to hate
minorities and treat them like garbage, but just because they love Jesus they get a free pass.

[12th Doctor]

Hey Soulty, I'm with you 100%.  Faith is certainly vital yet so many people think just because they have faith that they are saved regardless of how they treat other people.  This is the same type of attitude that allows people to hate
minorities and treat them like garbage, but just because they love Jesus they get a free pass.

I know this sounds corny, but the opposit of love is not hate, but apathy.  So many people claim to have vast faith, but are apathetic about their fellow man.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

And if one is going to make an idiotic claim like "only 144,000 will be 'elected'", I like to prove to them that they are morons.

Do you believe in the rapture sir?

No, assuming that that is what Revelations is about (doubtful) it doesn't even happen in the Bible, the same way that Protestants champion.

most Protestants do NOT believe in the rapture. I haven't met a single mainstream one who does.

You need to get out more.

see quote

most Protestants do NOT believe in the rapture. I haven't met a single mainstream one who does.

I don't hang out with evangelicals and fundies of course.

[patrick1]

Hey Soulty, I'm with you 100%.  Faith is certainly vital yet so many people think just because they have faith that they are saved regardless of how they treat other people.  This is the same type of attitude that allows people to hate
minorities and treat them like garbage, but just because they love Jesus they get a free pass.

I know this sounds corny, but the opposit of love is not hate, but apathy.  So many people claim to have vast faith, but are apathetic about their fellow man.

That is what I was always taught.  Apathy is the greatest sin.  Ive just recently become re-involved with the Church after a lenghty (7 years or so) abscence.

[Platypus]

Only in America (and the third world).

[David S]

As I recall the number is 144,000 people. In the US alone about 2 million people die every year. If you ratio that up to cover the world population and then figure it on a daily basis it works out to about 110,000 people dying every day. So maybe 144,000 disappearing would hardly be noticed.

155,000 die each day.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/xx.html#People

This is basic "Theology 101 for Dumbasses"

Whoa there cowboy. I wasn't rude to you.

[A18]

I think he was talking to jfern, actually.

[12th Doctor]

As I recall the number is 144,000 people. In the US alone about 2 million people die every year. If you ratio that up to cover the world population and then figure it on a daily basis it works out to about 110,000 people dying every day. So maybe 144,000 disappearing would hardly be noticed.

155,000 die each day.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/xx.html#People

This is basic "Theology 101 for Dumbasses"

Whoa there cowboy. I wasn't rude to you.

I wasn't being rude to you either.  Sorry.  I was simply adding to the point of your post, which was that the 144,000 number is absurd.  That was your point, no?