MA-SEN Megathread: Senator Markey wins

[Calthrina950]

I pray that the voters of Massachusetts have enough sense to reject Joe Kennedy III, who would be merely the latest in a family dynasty that has had more than its due, and should be relegated to the past. Political dynasties are not a good thing for this country.

[Calthrina950]

I pray that the voters of Massachusetts have enough sense to reject Joe Kennedy III, who would be merely the latest in a family dynasty that has had more than its due, and should be relegated to the past. Political dynasties are not a good thing for this country.

Or pray we have the sense to elect a young, well educated, talented, well spoken man who happens to be from a family that has given so much to this country. If Kennedy runs, he wins. And that’s a good thing.

And? His family background hardly indicates that he'll be a good Senator (judging by his legislative record he's clearly no Ted Kennedy). It only shows that he's immensely privileged and has enough hubris to think he can take whatever he wants because he feels entitled to it.

Exactly this. But I've had a sickening feeling, ever since Kennedy was given the State of the Union response last year, that the Democrats were grooming him for higher office. I wouldn't be surprised if there were other, powerful politicians, who were encouraging him to run. It's an unfortunate thing, and another element of our political system that is toxic, but that it is how it is.

[Calthrina950]

I pray that the voters of Massachusetts have enough sense to reject Joe Kennedy III, who would be merely the latest in a family dynasty that has had more than its due, and should be relegated to the past. Political dynasties are not a good thing for this country.

Or pray we have the sense to elect a young, well educated, talented, well spoken man who happens to be from a family that has given so much to this country. If Kennedy runs, he wins. And that’s a good thing.

And? His family background hardly indicates that he'll be a good Senator (judging by his legislative record he's clearly no Ted Kennedy). It only shows that he's immensely privileged and has enough hubris to think he can take whatever he wants because he feels entitled to it.

Exactly this. But I've had a sickening feeling, ever since Kennedy was given the State of the Union response last year, that the Democrats were grooming him for higher office. I wouldn't be surprised if there were other, powerful politicians, who were encouraging him to run. It's an unfortunate thing, and another element of our political system that is toxic, but that it is how it is.

Yep. Pretty much. His only real argument is some divine right BS. Were it a policy motivated campaign, I guess I could get behind it. But it's also just so obviously not.

I like Kennedy. Markey is bland, so I guess I'd be behind a Kennedy campaign.

Then again, this is pretty compelling. Oh wait. It's not nvm, and exactly illustrative of my point. I'll pick policy over aesthetics any day of the week.

Kennedy is someone who is sorely lacking of substance. Aside from his State of the Union response, and aside from getting elected to the House, what has he done? Absolutely nothing. He has ridden off his family name, and off the legacies of his grandfather and grand-uncles. America was not intended to be a hereditary oligarchy or monarchy. Hopefully, if Kennedy does challenge Markey, Markey defeats him. That would put to rest his ambitions for a while.

[Calthrina950]

I hope Kennedy crashes and burns.

This cannot be echoed enough. Markey will hopefully hand him a stinging defeat. Perhaps that will cure him of his arrogance disease.

[Calthrina950]

I quite like Markey, and would prefer Kennedy didn’t run. But having seen this thread him running and winning would be satisfying to see all the whingeing about political dynasties.

Opposing someone because they are a Kennedy is infinitely more pathetic than supporting someone because they are a Kennedy.

I don't understand why you would have such a fondness for political dynasties. I am of the viewpoint that political candidates ought to be promoted based upon their qualifications, their knowledge, and their experience, as well as their ability to generate new ideas and to take the initiative on the central issues of the times. In other words, I rate merit over birth. Someone who has worked their way up, played by the rules, and devoted themselves, ought to receive preference over someone who has everything handed to them as a silver platter. As a burgundy avatar, I would have thought that you would understand this.

[Calthrina950]

I quite like Markey, and would prefer Kennedy didn’t run. But having seen this thread him running and winning would be satisfying to see all the whingeing about political dynasties.

Opposing someone because they are a Kennedy is infinitely more pathetic than supporting someone because they are a Kennedy.

I don't understand why you would have such a fondness for political dynasties. I am of the viewpoint that political candidates ought to be promoted based upon their qualifications, their knowledge, and their experience, as well as their ability to generate new ideas and to take the initiative on the central issues of the times. In other words, I rate merit over birth. Someone who has worked their way up, played by the rules, and devoted themselves, ought to receive preference over someone who has everything handed to them as a silver platter. As a burgundy avatar, I would have thought that you would understand this.

Exactly. A backbencher congressman with a very weak legislative record running a primary against a staunchly progressive for no other obvious reason than an opportunistic and careerist move to position himself for a presidential run would be laughed at or ripped to shred by most Democrats, if he wasn't a Kennedy. I'm not sure why we should treat him differently just because he happens to have some wonderful ancestors. This primary challenge reeks of arrogance and a sense of entitlement you usually found among people coming from political dynasties.

Now, I am not a progressive (and this should be obvious), but I otherwise agree with this. Even though I think Markey has been in Congress for far too long (as I'm a strong advocate of term limits), I also don't think that he should lose his seat just because Kennedy feels that it "belongs" to him by right, as a member of one of the country's most prominent and most historically significant political dynasties. Nepotism is a great political evil, and ought to be fought against. I would be as equally opposed to any attempts by Chelsea Clinton, or George P. Bush (who I know is a current officeholder, but may try to advance himself), or Donald Trump Jr., to run for political office based solely off their family names and reputations.

[Calthrina950]

Ugh.

Although I hope Markey beats him in the primary, I fear that we will soon have another Kennedy in the Senate, who could potentially be there for as long as his grand-uncle was. That is not a good thing.

[Calthrina950]

Kennedy endorsed abolishing the EC and filibuster + SCOTUS term limits today.

Ugh. Term limits on the SCOTUS are a terrible, pessimistic idea. Some of the greatest Justices served on the Court for over 25 years, and some awful Justices served on the Court for less than 10 years.

It depends on the way in which term limits are structured. I would personally favor setting a mandatory retirement age, at either 70 or 75. That would enable for someone to be appointed at around the age of 50 and to serve for 15-25 years before retiring.

[Calthrina950]

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/11/joe-kennedy-ed-markey-challenge-1491098

A growing list of Democrats are becoming opposed to the idea of Kennedy challenging Markey. Chuck Schumer, along with Elizabeth Warren, Dick Durbin, Joe Manchin, and Jenne Shaheen are the most notable senate backers for Markey.

Kennedy also now has a senate backer, Kyrsten Sinema.

But generally, both the farthest Left of the party(AOC, Warren) and the farthest right of the party(Manchin) are uniting to support Markey.

I wonder why most Democrats are rallying in Markey's corner. Perhaps his decades of experience weighs upon them? And maybe some of them might have the same objections to the continuance of a moribund political dynasty, that many others have.

[Calthrina950]

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/11/joe-kennedy-ed-markey-challenge-1491098

A growing list of Democrats are becoming opposed to the idea of Kennedy challenging Markey. Chuck Schumer, along with Elizabeth Warren, Dick Durbin, Joe Manchin, and Jenne Shaheen are the most notable senate backers for Markey.

Kennedy also now has a senate backer, Kyrsten Sinema.

But generally, both the farthest Left of the party(AOC, Warren) and the farthest right of the party(Manchin) are uniting to support Markey.

I wonder why most Democrats are rallying in Markey's corner. Perhaps his decades of experience weighs upon them? And maybe some of them might have the same objections to the continuance of a moribund political dynasty, that many others have.

Those are all possible reasons, but a likely big one is the fact that Markey has a lot of personal relationships with these senators. Sinema has only been serving for about a year, but Warren, Manchin, and all the rest have served with Markey for almost 6 years now.

Theres also the fact that its usually not a good idea to encourage primary challenges or piss off your fellow senators. There was a legitimate fear back in 2018 for many Democrats when it came to endorsing Marie Newman, and in the end, only Sanders and Gillibrand backed her.

These reasons all make sense. It does speak well of Markey that he has the support of both the progressive and the centrist factions in the Democratic Senatorial caucus, with Sinema as the exception. And hopefully, that support will help him in fending off Kennedy's challenge.

[Calthrina950]

Given that everyone apparently hates political dynasties, it is interesting that all the polling has shown Kennedy far ahead.

That's because the Kennedy name is gold in Massachusetts, just as it has been for the past seven decades.

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/JamesPindell/status/1172563465568960512
👀

I never thought that I would actually agree with Ocasio-Cortez on something. But in all honesty, this doesn't surprise me, given that Markey is the Senate co-sponsor of her Green New Deal.

[Calthrina950]

He's officially in.

I hope he wins.

Lord have mercy on our souls! Political dynasties continue to dominate. I hope Markey prevails in this contest.

[Calthrina950]

Kennedy doesn't deserve this seat b/c of his last name

Agreed. And if Markey manages to pull off an upset and defeat Kennedy in September, it will hopefully put an end to this upstart's political career, or at least significantly delay it.

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/politico/status/1288512244456787968

LMAO

Kennedy himself is white, well-off, and well-educated, so it's absolutely ridiculous that he or his campaign surrogates would say something like this. This only intensifies my support for Markey, who really does need to show this arrogant and entitled congressman the door.

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/politico/status/1288512244456787968

LMAO

Kennedy himself is white, well-off, and well-educated, so it's absolutely ridiculous that he or his campaign surrogates would say something like this. This only intensifies my support for Markey, who really does need to show this arrogant and entitled congressman the door.

Kennedy is really making all the wrong strategic moves right now. His debate performance was lackluster, he bungled an "attack" on Markey's campaign team claiming that they were ignoring the voters of towns that have been under the Quabbin since the '30s, he fails to get a Globe endorsement, and then he whines to the Globe in the aftermath of their endorsement of Markey. Really good look.

I certainly agree, and the polls indicate that this race remains a tossup. Kennedy's errors could very well be what gets Markey across the finish line. And Markey himself has been taking this primary seriously, as he should. Again, what does Kennedy offer (aside from youth) that Markey doesn't? They are both generic liberal, establishment Democrats.

[Calthrina950]

To me, the most exciting thing about this race is that if Kennedy loses, his career is basically over. The thought of that just makes me happy.

It would also end more than seventy years of virtually uninterrupted Kennedy service in the United States Congress, as a member of that family has served in either the House or the Senate since 1947 (with the exception of the years 2011-2013). My hope is that this century will put an end to political dynasties of this nature. I don't want any more Kennedys, Bushes, or Clintons. And hopefully, we won't get any more Trumps either after this one leaves office.

[Calthrina950]

To me, the most exciting thing about this race is that if Kennedy loses, his career is basically over. The thought of that just makes me happy.

It would also end more than seventy years of virtually uninterrupted Kennedy service in the United States Congress, as a member of that family has served in either the House or the Senate since 1947 (with the exception of the years 2011-2013). My hope is that this century will put an end to political dynasties of this nature. I don't want any more Kennedys, Bushes, or Clintons. And hopefully, we won't get any more Trumps either after this one leaves office.

https://ballotpedia.org/Amy_Kennedy

I forgot about her. Well, that's a tough draw, between a member of a political dynasty and a opportunistic party-flipper. But because I view political dynasties more unfavorably, I hope Van Drew wins. As I've said, we don't need any more Kennedys.

[Calthrina950]

New Markey Ad is possibly the best this cycle.

https://twitter.com/EdMarkey/status/1293986122318610435?s=19

I don't care that it's nearly 3 minutes long, this might unironically be the greatest political ad of all time.

I watched this ad, and I am genuinely impressed. Rarely have I seen a political ad as well produced as this one. Markey was able to point to a long record of substantive legislative accomplishments, and is clearly touting his progressive credentials. I think that this, along with his personal background (having worked his way up the ladder in contrast to Kennedy, who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and had everything handed to him), both came through.

[Calthrina950]

Kennedy is now accusing Markey of 'weaponizing' his family and questioning their integrity, while also appropriating their words.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/512310-kennedy-markey-is-weaponizing-my-familys-history?

Kennedy seems to be running one of the worst campaigns of any candidate, primary or general, in this election. He knows that he is trailing in the polls, and is now resorting to personal attacks in an attempt to revive his position.

[Calthrina950]

Kennedy is now accusing Markey of 'weaponizing' his family and questioning their integrity, while also appropriating their words.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/512310-kennedy-markey-is-weaponizing-my-familys-history?

Kennedy seems to be running one of the worst campaigns of any candidate, primary or general, in this election. He knows that he is trailing in the polls, and is now resorting to personal attacks in an attempt to revive his position.

One does wonder how much of this comes down to the pandemic, and it sending most of the campaign online.

But really, it just seems Kennedy never found his reason for being. Was it because Markey was a wayward representative and spent too much time in D.C., or was it that Kennedy would have a bigger national presence than Markey given how much he's campaigned for out-of-state Democrats. Is he an advocate for generational change, or a pleasant throwback for older more nostalgic Democrats. None of these are necessarily exclusive to one another, you can have more than one argument, but I don't think he ever really settled on a central theme that didn't amount to "I'd be better."

I certainly agree, and even without the pandemic, I doubt that his campaign would be much better, given this fundamental flaw which you identified. Just look at Markey's most recent ad which was posted on here. Agree with him or not, you have to acknowledge that he has settled upon a cohesive and engaging narrative, and he has managed to effectively rebut Kennedy's attacks against him without getting into the gutter. Kennedy has relied too much on his last name, and it's clear that in this day and age, voters aren't buying such a strategy anymore. All the Kennedys of the older generation are gone and in the ground-the last of the siblings of JFK, RFK, and EMK died just a few months ago-and JPK III's attempt to tie himself to them is floundering.

[Calthrina950]

Kennedy is now accusing Markey of 'weaponizing' his family and questioning their integrity, while also appropriating their words.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/512310-kennedy-markey-is-weaponizing-my-familys-history?

Kennedy seems to be running one of the worst campaigns of any candidate, primary or general, in this election. He knows that he is trailing in the polls, and is now resorting to personal attacks in an attempt to revive his position.

One does wonder how much of this comes down to the pandemic, and it sending most of the campaign online.

But really, it just seems Kennedy never found his reason for being. Was it because Markey was a wayward representative and spent too much time in D.C., or was it that Kennedy would have a bigger national presence than Markey given how much he's campaigned for out-of-state Democrats. Is he an advocate for generational change, or a pleasant throwback for older more nostalgic Democrats. None of these are necessarily exclusive to one another, you can have more than one argument, but I don't think he ever really settled on a central theme that didn't amount to "I'd be better."

I certainly agree, and even without the pandemic, I doubt that his campaign would be much better, given this fundamental flaw which you identified. Just look at Markey's most recent ad which was posted on here. Agree with him or not, you have to acknowledge that he has settled upon a cohesive and engaging narrative, and he has managed to effectively rebut Kennedy's attacks against him without getting into the gutter. Kennedy has relied too much on his last name, and it's clear that in this day and age, voters aren't buying such a strategy anymore. All the Kennedys of the older generation are gone and in the ground-the last of the siblings of JFK, RFK, and EMK died just a few months ago-and JFK III's attempt to tie himself to them is floundering.

The campaign apparatus has certainly looked... wanting.

The Boston Globe doesn't endorse you, okay, that's not great.

But attacking it for having "disproportionately white, well-off, well-educated readers" was, uh, a choice.

Certainly true. And I almost forgot that RFK's widow Ethel (JPK III's grandmother) is still alive. But this has little effect on the basic point which I was making. If JPK III cannot defeat Markey, then would he be able to defeat Ayanna Pressley down the line, when Elizabeth Warren either retires or is named to Biden's cabinet? Or when Markey does actually retire in 2026? I highly doubt it.

[Calthrina950]

His SOTU response was bad

Agreed. As I recall, Kennedy looked like he was sweating when he gave the response. That distracted attention from his speech, which wasn't anything extraordinary.

[Calthrina950]

The thing I think is missing in this contest is the fact the Kennedy family don't really have that great a track record in actually winning competitive races; 1980 bombed, the Lt-Gov race in Maryland was lost, the 2018 Illinois Primary was even more of a joke than 1980.

Joe Kennedy III won his primary in 2012 I assume because Barney Frank endorsed him & because he didn't face a significant primary challenge.

Besides I think the fact that the polls show he's getting 40-45% show he's popular; it's just not that easy to knock off an incumbent senator who hasn't really done anything to repel voters.

The only truly competitive race I can think of won by the Kennedy family was JFK's own election in 1960, and that was sixty years ago. And of course, we all know of what has been said about the electoral chicanery that took place in Illinois and Texas during that election. RFK of course had his Senate race in New York in 1964, but he was carried into office on President Johnson's coattails. And again, that was many decades ago. There is no member of the family in recent times who has successfully won a competitive race.

[Calthrina950]

The thing I think is missing in this contest is the fact the Kennedy family don't really have that great a track record in actually winning competitive races; 1980 bombed, the Lt-Gov race in Maryland was lost, the 2018 Illinois Primary was even more of a joke than 1980.

Joe Kennedy III won his primary in 2012 I assume because Barney Frank endorsed him & because he didn't face a significant primary challenge.

Besides I think the fact that the polls show he's getting 40-45% show he's popular; it's just not that easy to knock off an incumbent senator who hasn't really done anything to repel voters.

The only truly competitive race I can think of won by the Kennedy family was JFK's own election in 1960, and that was sixty years ago. And of course, we all know of what has been said about the electoral chicanery that took place in Illinois and Texas during that election. RFK of course had his Senate race in New York in 1964, but he was carried into office on President Johnson's coattails. And again, that was many decades ago. There is no member of the family in recent times who has successfully won a competitive race.

JFK's first Massachusetts Senate race in 1952 against incumbent (& future Nixon 1960 running mate) Henry Cabot Lodge Jr. was really close too: 51-48.

Teddy won the ‘94 Senate Race against Romney, which was competitive through September of that year.

I forgot about those two races, but those were still a few decades ago. And EMK ended up winning reelection by nearly 20% in 1994.