Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[jaichind]

IFX reports that Russia is now ready to send a delegation to Minsk for talks with Ukraine.

I guess they figure they have the upper hand and that further gains might get costlier so it makes sense for them to see what they can squeeze out of Ukraine through talks.  And if Ukraine does not show they can tell PRC's Xi that they tried.

[Hnv1]

https://twitter.com/DerHaidWachst/status/1497189860154744852?s=20&t=nOSEAoMc...

The Chechen are coming. I guess Putin is displeased by the performance of his regulars.

Also it seems Melitopol has fallen

[CumbrianLefty]

IFX reports that Russia is now ready to send a delegation to Minsk for talks with Ukraine.

I guess they figure they have the upper hand and that further gains might get costlier so it makes sense for them to see what they can squeeze out of Ukraine through talks.  And if Ukraine does not show they can tell PRC's Xi that they tried.

I'm sure talks this early weren't part of the original Russian plan, whatever they claim now.

[Torrain]

News in the past few minutes that the EU is drawing up plans to freeze assets belonging to Putin and Lavrov (Russian Foreign Minister).

Brussels has been trying to hash out a consensus on their sanctions plan. Yesterday afternoon they agreed not to create any carve-outs for specific EU-Russia import/exports. But the big sticking point was whether Putin himself would be targeted, or whether that would be left as a reserve option.

If there’s now a consensus on this, means we could hear an announcement shortly.

[compucomp]

IFX reports that Russia is now ready to send a delegation to Minsk for talks with Ukraine.

I guess they figure they have the upper hand and that further gains might get costlier so it makes sense for them to see what they can squeeze out of Ukraine through talks.  And if Ukraine does not show they can tell PRC's Xi that they tried.

I'm sure talks this early weren't part of the original Russian plan, whatever they claim now.

Ukraine is the one that first sued for peace. Macron said yesterday that Zelensky asked him to ask Putin to stop the fighting and Zelensky recorded a public message today saying the same. They will surely give up a lot if this results in an armistice and peace terms. Turns out the "Ukrainians are holding up well" idea was overly optimistic and a mistaken impression given by a few anecdotal Twitter reports.

[Cassius]

The purpose of the 'Ukraine is winning' discourse being peddled by various Ukrainian government officials and other outlets is to keep morale as high as possible, perfectly understandably. On the other hand people should really stop sharing these isolated and/or unconfirmed reports of Ukrainian 'fighter aces' and supposedly fleeing Russian troops. It's the hope that gets you.

[CumbrianLefty]

IFX reports that Russia is now ready to send a delegation to Minsk for talks with Ukraine.

I guess they figure they have the upper hand and that further gains might get costlier so it makes sense for them to see what they can squeeze out of Ukraine through talks.  And if Ukraine does not show they can tell PRC's Xi that they tried.

I'm sure talks this early weren't part of the original Russian plan, whatever they claim now.

Ukraine is the one that first sued for peace. Macron said yesterday that Zelensky asked him to ask Putin to stop the fighting and Zelensky recorded a public message today saying the same. They will surely give up a lot if this results in an armistice and peace terms. Turns out the "Ukrainians are holding up well" idea was overly optimistic and a mistaken impression given by a few anecdotal Twitter reports.

And after that message from the Kremlin, back to the studio.

[rc18]

News in the past few minutes that the EU is drawing up plans to freeze assets belonging to Putin and Lavrov (Russian Foreign Minister).

Brussels has been trying to hash out a consensus on their sanctions plan. Yesterday afternoon they agreed not to create any carve-outs for specific EU-Russia import/exports. But the big sticking point was whether Putin himself would be targeted, or whether that would be left as a reserve option.

If there’s now a consensus on this, means we could hear an announcement shortly.

https://twitter.com/Barnes_Joe/status/1497194009038626842?s=20&t=OCsNrVlWTDF...

Can't have the WAGs of Putin's buddies going without their Prada bags.

Europe isn't worth saving.

[Helsinkian]

Italy has already made a joke of the whole sanctions process ("against NATO" is a typo):

https://twitter.com/Barnes_Joe/status/1497194009038626842

[compucomp]

IFX reports that Russia is now ready to send a delegation to Minsk for talks with Ukraine.

I guess they figure they have the upper hand and that further gains might get costlier so it makes sense for them to see what they can squeeze out of Ukraine through talks.  And if Ukraine does not show they can tell PRC's Xi that they tried.

I'm sure talks this early weren't part of the original Russian plan, whatever they claim now.

Ukraine is the one that first sued for peace. Macron said yesterday that Zelensky asked him to ask Putin to stop the fighting and Zelensky recorded a public message today saying the same. They will surely give up a lot if this results in an armistice and peace terms. Turns out the "Ukrainians are holding up well" idea was overly optimistic and a mistaken impression given by a few anecdotal Twitter reports.

And after that message from the Kremlin, back to the studio.

You can call it a message from the Kremlin, from Zhongnanhai, whatever. It's the clear reality and the truth at this point. Kiev is under siege, 1.5 days into the offensive, and Zelensky sued for peace publicly. Asking for an armistice with enemy troops on your land is not an action to take when winning, Finland still lost territory from the Winter War despite performing much better than expectations. I get that you're cheerleading for a side here but reality doesn't care about that.

[President Johnson]

BREAKING: German news sources report that EU plans to impose massive sanctions against Putin and Lavrov personally. Previously, German Finance Minister Christian Lindner strongly pledged to do so.

https://twitter.com/tagesschau/status/1497203448542081029

[StateBoiler]

IFX reports that Russia is now ready to send a delegation to Minsk for talks with Ukraine.

I guess they figure they have the upper hand and that further gains might get costlier so it makes sense for them to see what they can squeeze out of Ukraine through talks.  And if Ukraine does not show they can tell PRC's Xi that they tried.

I'm sure talks this early weren't part of the original Russian plan, whatever they claim now.

Ukraine is the one that first sued for peace. Macron said yesterday that Zelensky asked him to ask Putin to stop the fighting and Zelensky recorded a public message today saying the same. They will surely give up a lot if this results in an armistice and peace terms. Turns out the "Ukrainians are holding up well" idea was overly optimistic and a mistaken impression given by a few anecdotal Twitter reports.

And after that message from the Kremlin, back to the studio.

CNN posted in their live blog about an hour ago that Zelensky in a televised address speaking in Russian called for direct talks and negotiation.

American military intelligence pre-war said they expected Kiev to fall in 72 hours to a Russian ground assault. We're at about 32 hours and they're on the outskirts of Kiev. Taking Kiev and being outside Kiev are two different things, but that's situation on the ground.

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

So we know that Russia will seize control of Ukraine and install a puppet regime? What will the US, EU, NATO and other major world powers do?

Will Russia be effectively cut off from the rest of the world? Or will this all just blow-over?

Only one person answered. Knowing all of this, what will happen?

[StateBoiler]

So we know that Russia will seize control of Ukraine and install a puppet regime? What will the US, EU, NATO and other major world powers do?

Will Russia be effectively cut off from the rest of the world? Or will this all just blow-over?

Only one person answered. Knowing all of this, what will happen?

If this conflict ends, I see China now that peace exists being okay with whatever Russia does.

Think the answer to your question depends on whether there is a negotiated settlement that has Zelensky's signature on it or not. If Zelensky agrees to something, the U.S. and EU will abide. If he does not, they won't.

[jaichind]

Italy has already made a joke of the whole sanctions process ("against NATO" is a typo):

https://twitter.com/Barnes_Joe/status/1497194009038626842

Indian  media is jumping on this one to say "why are we being pressured to criticize Russia when the Europeans are not serious"

[Meclazine for Israel]

Ukraine - the context of history.

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/saturdayextra/ukraine---a-history/13732182

[Logical]

The spoiled brats are unhappy.
https://twitter.com/zakavkaza/status/1497165665467346944

[Badger]

Georgia, ironically, refuse to join in sanctions against Russia.   Georgia PM Garibashvili says that sanctions would be "irresponsible and harmful".

 Ironically nothing. They understand full well that they are on the brink of a similar invasion which, unlike the Ukraine, they probably can't resist and would turn their country into another Chechnya

[Sir Mohamed]

BREAKING: German news sources report that EU plans to impose massive sanctions against Putin and Lavrov personally. Previously, German Finance Minister Christian Lindner strongly pledged to do so.

https://twitter.com/tagesschau/status/1497203448542081029

Good, Biden needs to follow asap. Putin has chosen war, now he needs to bear the full consequences.

[ugabug]

https://twitter.com/MarkHertling/status/1497035826139738125?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%...

[compucomp]

What a joke. You treat us like dogsh**t for years, and then you expect us to do your bidding? It's as if the Americans still think it's 1992 and they have the power to dictate terms to everyone in the world. We may help out in the end but we most assuredly will extract a price from you for it.

U.S. Officials Repeatedly Urged China to Help Avert War in Ukraine

WASHINGTON — Over three months, senior Biden administration officials held half a dozen urgent meetings with top Chinese officials in which the Americans presented intelligence showing Russia’s troop buildup around Ukraine and beseeched the Chinese to tell Russia not to invade, according to U.S. officials.

Each time, the Chinese officials, including the foreign minister and the ambassador to the United States, rebuffed the Americans, saying they did not think an invasion was in the works. After one diplomatic exchange in December, U.S. officials got intelligence showing Beijing had shared the information with Moscow, telling the Russians that the United States was trying to sow discord — and that China would not try to impede Russian plans and actions, the officials said.

The previously unreported talks between American and Chinese officials show how the Biden administration tried to use intelligence findings and diplomacy to persuade a superpower it views as a growing adversary to stop the invasion of Ukraine, and how that nation, led by President Xi Jinping, persistently sided with Russia even as the evidence of Moscow’s plans for a military offensive grew over the winter.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It's the clear reality and the truth at this point. Kiev is under siege, 1.5 days into the offensive, and Zelensky sued for peace publicly. Asking for an armistice with enemy troops on your land is not an action to take when winning, Finland still lost territory from the Winter War despite performing much better than expectations. I get that you're cheerleading for a side here but reality doesn't care about that.

Firstly, the capital being under direct threat in the second day of the invasion of a large country sounds impressive at first, very impressive, right up until you look at a map and notice where Kiev actually is. It is highly exposed to any aggressive push from the north and borderline indefensible from that direction as well.

Secondly, no one serious is saying that the Ukrainian army is winning. What has been noticed, and not just here and not just on twitter, is that they have held up a lot better than expected. People have also been surprised at the Russian attack plan with so many independent thrusts on so many different fronts, something that smacks of the sort of incompetence driven by excessive political interference in military decisions. It is still overwhelmingly likely that the Russian military 'wins' due to the substantial imbalance in the size of forces and also resources involved, but it is plainly not going to plan, and this is an important and relevant thing to note.

Finally, your sneering is unpleasant and reflects poorly on your character.

[jaichind]

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/banking-law/chinese-state-banks-restrict-financing-for-russian-commodities

"Chinese State Banks Restrict Financing for Russian Commodities"

I guess this is the nominal action from PRC to placate USA pressure.

[Person Man]

What a joke. You treat us like dogsh**t for years, and then you expect us to do your bidding? It's as if the Americans still think it's 1992 and they have the power to dictate terms to everyone in the world. We may help out in the end but we most assuredly will extract a price from you for it.

U.S. Officials Repeatedly Urged China to Help Avert War in Ukraine

WASHINGTON — Over three months, senior Biden administration officials held half a dozen urgent meetings with top Chinese officials in which the Americans presented intelligence showing Russia’s troop buildup around Ukraine and beseeched the Chinese to tell Russia not to invade, according to U.S. officials.

Each time, the Chinese officials, including the foreign minister and the ambassador to the United States, rebuffed the Americans, saying they did not think an invasion was in the works. After one diplomatic exchange in December, U.S. officials got intelligence showing Beijing had shared the information with Moscow, telling the Russians that the United States was trying to sow discord — and that China would not try to impede Russian plans and actions, the officials said.

The previously unreported talks between American and Chinese officials show how the Biden administration tried to use intelligence findings and diplomacy to persuade a superpower it views as a growing adversary to stop the invasion of Ukraine, and how that nation, led by President Xi Jinping, persistently sided with Russia even as the evidence of Moscow’s plans for a military offensive grew over the winter.

What people like you, Putin, and all of the nationalists, libertarians, and socialists say isn't unreasonable and it would greatly benefit the United States to not have spend so much money to police the world but the alternatives are worse than the problem at this point.

[jaichind]

France came out in favor of cutting off Russia from SWIFT.