Georgia 2020 Redistricting Discussion
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Nyvin
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« Reply #925 on: October 28, 2023, 09:40:10 AM »

The congressional map most likely will stay 9-5 if Republicans draw the map, but the mandates for the legislative districts could be really major.  

The two additional black majority state house seats in/around Bibb county are guaranteed pickups for Democrats, there's no way out of that.  Also the amount of wiggle room Republicans have in the Atlanta metro for both State House and Senate seats is minimal.  They're going to face losses in their majority in both chambers for sure.  

That together with further trends in Atlanta means the legislature could definitely be competitive real soon, if not 2024 then certainly in the next few cycles.
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Nyvin
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« Reply #926 on: October 30, 2023, 02:22:17 PM »

Actually looking into this more, the court order is saying the state can't remove any opportunity districts elsewhere, and GA-7 as currently drawn is plurality black at about 31%, and only about 29% white.  

So that really could be considered it's own minority opportunity district on it's own, and then the court order mandates a "new" black majority district made in the west Atlanta metro area. So if they can't eliminate GA-7 as a plurality black seat, the new map might actually have to be 8R-6D.  If they do make the map 9-5 with the five D seats all being black majority, then the court could use that provision to strike it down and draw their own map.

Quote
"The state cannot remedy the Section 2 violations described herein by eliminating minority
opportunity districts elsewhere in the plans."

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cJwiPASTQ8rnPZlUOKYHgqVlQU9V4z62/view



It's also very possible to leave GA-7 as is and draw four black majority district in the Atlanta metro.  

https://davesredistricting.org/join/6c26ad24-2989-4537-b8b2-c7c20f8424c7



Just some theorycrafting here.
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Oryxslayer
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« Reply #927 on: October 30, 2023, 02:42:18 PM »


Thank you for this, cause nobody seemed to understand when I said that GA-07 had to remain a Democratic seat given the text of the order. They could of course try, but that would de Facto be a punt to the master, cause it would fail the strict scrutiny hearing, similar to Alabama's 'remedial' map. The plaintiffs and the Judge aren't exactly going to say Okay to a map that creates one majority minority district to elect a African American rep, from a majority minority district that currently is electing a African American rep. It's a very similar approach to the "50% AA but Trump+1" districts that pop up from certain folks: technically possible but legally impossible.

I wouldn't be surprised if its borders do shift a bit though, just cause it makes things easier for GA-04 and 05.

Also, and this is the big one, unless they GOP can get a stay from the 11th, they have every incentive to play along exactly as far as the court orders them to. Cause failing in any way and letting a master map can very easily create additional Dem seats beyond the ordered districts. As many people have shown already, a compact master map probably creates a second Congressional seat that is winnable for Dems using the north Cobb/Fulton shifts. This gets even more scary for them in the state House, which will go to 92-88 Trump and 90-90 Warnock/Walker with the 5 ordered districts, under the minimum changes necessary.
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ProgressiveModerate
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« Reply #928 on: October 30, 2023, 03:41:50 PM »


Thank you for this, cause nobody seemed to understand when I said that GA-07 had to remain a Democratic seat given the text of the order. They could of course try, but that would de Facto be a punt to the master, cause it would fail the strict scrutiny hearing, similar to Alabama's 'remedial' map. The plaintiffs and the Judge aren't exactly going to say Okay to a map that creates one majority minority district to elect a African American rep, from a majority minority district that currently is electing a African American rep. It's a very similar approach to the "50% AA but Trump+1" districts that pop up from certain folks: technically possible but legally impossible.

I wouldn't be surprised if its borders do shift a bit though, just cause it makes things easier for GA-04 and 05.

Also, and this is the big one, unless they GOP can get a stay from the 11th, they have every incentive to play along exactly as far as the court orders them to. Cause failing in any way and letting a master map can very easily create additional Dem seats beyond the ordered districts. As many people have shown already, a compact master map probably creates a second Congressional seat that is winnable for Dems using the north Cobb/Fulton shifts. This gets even more scary for them in the state House, which will go to 92-88 Trump and 90-90 Warnock/Walker with the 5 ordered districts, under the minimum changes necessary.

This might be a dumb question but can the GA GOP simultaneously comply with the lower court while also appealing and seeking a stay from the 11th?
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GAinDC
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« Reply #929 on: October 30, 2023, 04:00:55 PM »

. This gets even more scary for them in the state House, which will go to 92-88 Trump and 90-90 Warnock/Walker with the 5 ordered districts, under the minimum changes necessary.

Wow, didn’t know the chamber was already that close
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Oryxslayer
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« Reply #930 on: October 30, 2023, 04:10:41 PM »


Thank you for this, cause nobody seemed to understand when I said that GA-07 had to remain a Democratic seat given the text of the order. They could of course try, but that would de Facto be a punt to the master, cause it would fail the strict scrutiny hearing, similar to Alabama's 'remedial' map. The plaintiffs and the Judge aren't exactly going to say Okay to a map that creates one majority minority district to elect a African American rep, from a majority minority district that currently is electing a African American rep. It's a very similar approach to the "50% AA but Trump+1" districts that pop up from certain folks: technically possible but legally impossible.

I wouldn't be surprised if its borders do shift a bit though, just cause it makes things easier for GA-04 and 05.

Also, and this is the big one, unless they GOP can get a stay from the 11th, they have every incentive to play along exactly as far as the court orders them to. Cause failing in any way and letting a master map can very easily create additional Dem seats beyond the ordered districts. As many people have shown already, a compact master map probably creates a second Congressional seat that is winnable for Dems using the north Cobb/Fulton shifts. This gets even more scary for them in the state House, which will go to 92-88 Trump and 90-90 Warnock/Walker with the 5 ordered districts, under the minimum changes necessary.

This might be a dumb question but can the GA GOP simultaneously comply with the lower court while also appealing and seeking a stay from the 11th?

Thats in theory what they could be doing right now, penciling in a special session, and could be filing for a Stay. But I haven't seen a filing in the 11th yet from any party. Perhaps they want to do things as late as possible to try and stall for Purcell, in which case action will start happening soon-ish. The holidays and the scheduled timetable in theory should make this appear fast if they want to try for the Stay, or else they run into the session and then the potential master.

Milligan taking place next door and in another lower court of the 11th certainly complicates things for the State Defense though.
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ProgressiveModerate
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« Reply #931 on: October 30, 2023, 04:24:18 PM »

. This gets even more scary for them in the state House, which will go to 92-88 Trump and 90-90 Warnock/Walker with the 5 ordered districts, under the minimum changes necessary.

Wow, didn’t know the chamber was already that close

Ye generally in state leg chambers with a lot of seats, gerrymandering for a lopsided delegation is pretty tricky unless you're already riding on a geography advantage.
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Oryxslayer
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« Reply #932 on: October 30, 2023, 04:51:16 PM »
« Edited: October 30, 2023, 07:25:39 PM by Oryxslayer »

. This gets even more scary for them in the state House, which will go to 92-88 Trump and 90-90 Warnock/Walker with the 5 ordered districts, under the minimum changes necessary.

Wow, didn’t know the chamber was already that close

The chamber elected 79 Dems to 101 GOP in 2022. There was one high profile defection earlier this year, but that came from a uber-D urban Atlanta seat.

The Chamber itself is right now 97-83 Trump 2020. The GOP won 4 Biden seats. These were all intentional:

- HD-48 was made as GOP as possible to  successfully eliminate the north Fulton Dem incumbent, but it couldn't be made fully Trump leaning since they had to protect other incumbents and facilitate a gain in the next listed seat. It only flipped to them by 54-46.

- HD-53 is a Biden seat, but it was drawn as a snake to try and be as Republican as possible in North Fulton, while including parts of Buckhead. It was also drawn specifically to facilitate the return of Deborah Silcox who barely lost in 2020. But her comeback was only by 53-47.

- HD-99 is centered on Suwanee in Gwinnett. It was held by a member of the House Redistricting committee in 2022, but she retired, perhaps because she was unable to prevent the district from becoming more Dem-leaning. This is an area where the Dem electorate is growing, but it also struggles in off-years. 55-45 GOP in in 2022.

 - HD-154 in the SW was the successor to majority-AA HD-151, a consistently Dem seat that keeps electing the locally popular Gerald Greene, a former Dem who defected in 2010. But he's been serving for 40 years, is now 75, and nobody else can replicate his results.

The two additional Warnock runoff seats are HD-45 and 49, adjacent to each other in Northeast Cobb and North Fulton. Both were 51-49 for him, but also reelected their GOP incumbents by 59%. If Dems get the map changes in this opinion implemented, they will probably pour resources here.


The five districts that should seemingly be made into the 5 ordered majority-minority districts are: HD-64, HD-74, HD-117, HD-133, and HD-147. Most of these district's predecessors were in a larger group of seats that significantly shifting towards the Dems at the end of the decade, but the GOP redrew their lines in an attempt to turn back the clock. The one place they theoretically failed was HD-117, which still remained the tightest district in the chamber in 2022 by a 1.5% margin, despite the decrease in BVAP. This seat will probably flip in 2024 no matter the outcome of the order, but the other 4 will probably not without a redraw.

I will additionally note the Democrats probably have three frontline defenses: HD-105, HD-108, and HD-128. Any other unmentioned districts (including GOP HD-151) either have extreme RPV stabilizing their margins, or will see Dem margins go up in Presidential years. HD-128 was surprisingly left uncontested in 2022, and that failure may mean the GOP missed their chance at the seat. The required redraw of the Milledgeville region could take from 128, pushing the seat further east into the more Democratic Augusta. It something the plaintiffs fully intended when they sued the region. Those changes would push the seat off the battleground map.
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patzer
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« Reply #933 on: November 01, 2023, 09:18:57 AM »

I have come up with a definitely fair map. For the court-required four black majority districts, I chose to pair the urban heavily-black areas of the Atlanta area with rural areas to the south rather than with the whiter areas of Atlanta, as this makes it easier for the black candidate of choice to win the Democratic primary. Thanks to this, it made sense to eliminate the 3rd district in its current formation, to provide enough population for the four black Atlanta districts (the 5th, 4th, 13th, and new 3rd).

The whiter areas of the Atlanta area are paired together to make a new 10th district, which is in fact the bluest district on the map. The rest of the map was drawn prioritizing compactness and avoiding county splits when possible, getting rid of ugly aspects of the current map like the 8th snaking around Macon. By 2016-2020 average, there are seven Democratic-leaning districts and seven Republican-leaning ones, so I definitely see no way that this map could possibly be considered unfair, and something like this should certainly be considered when the map is being redrawn.



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Oryxslayer
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« Reply #934 on: November 01, 2023, 12:01:10 PM »



Status of state action. So the state legislative defendants,  as expected,  want to appeal for a hold from the 11th but have yet to do so.
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windjammer
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« Reply #935 on: November 01, 2023, 02:05:59 PM »



Status of state action. So the state legislative defendants,  as expected,  want to appeal for a hold from the 11th but have yet to do so.
So this means redrawing the maps will proceed?
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Sol
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« Reply #936 on: November 01, 2023, 03:07:40 PM »

I have come up with a definitely fair map. For the court-required four black majority districts, I chose to pair the urban heavily-black areas of the Atlanta area with rural areas to the south rather than with the whiter areas of Atlanta, as this makes it easier for the black candidate of choice to win the Democratic primary. Thanks to this, it made sense to eliminate the 3rd district in its current formation, to provide enough population for the four black Atlanta districts (the 5th, 4th, 13th, and new 3rd).

The whiter areas of the Atlanta area are paired together to make a new 10th district, which is in fact the bluest district on the map. The rest of the map was drawn prioritizing compactness and avoiding county splits when possible, getting rid of ugly aspects of the current map like the 8th snaking around Macon. By 2016-2020 average, there are seven Democratic-leaning districts and seven Republican-leaning ones, so I definitely see no way that this map could possibly be considered unfair, and something like this should certainly be considered when the map is being redrawn.



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I don’t think there’s much risk of the white candidate of choice winning a Democratic primary of any hypothetical Black influence district in the Atlanta area. You can draw 4 districts in the Atlanta area with identical demographics and without drawing them into genuinely rural territory south of the city, much less cutting into suburban Macon or Columbus.
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Oryxslayer
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« Reply #937 on: November 01, 2023, 06:17:15 PM »
« Edited: November 01, 2023, 06:29:35 PM by Oryxslayer »

Quote from: Oryxslayer link=topic=346841.msg9267815#msg9267815

Status of state action. So the state legislative defendants,  as expected,  want to appeal for a hold from the 11th but have yet to do so.
So this means redrawing the maps will proceed?



All state Plaintiffs for now are seemingly deciding not to appeal for now.  So we should for the moment expect maps. This puts a hold on the cases with additional Racial Gerrymandering claims. The continued existence of these though serves as a potential handbrake for activists if the legislature tries anything suspicious, and as a further threat that the legislature could want to get defused by following this order.

The next question is if the legislature follows the orders just as far as necessary, to deny any additional unnecessary side effects,  or produces a product that de facto punts to the master and could lead to unforseen Dem seats.  And if they do follow the order, will more legislative districts be changed outside of the targeted regions,  to potentially reinforce the tighter margins, albeit potentially risking the court rejecting their maps.
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Tintrlvr
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« Reply #938 on: November 02, 2023, 03:23:44 PM »

I have come up with a definitely fair map. For the court-required four black majority districts, I chose to pair the urban heavily-black areas of the Atlanta area with rural areas to the south rather than with the whiter areas of Atlanta, as this makes it easier for the black candidate of choice to win the Democratic primary. Thanks to this, it made sense to eliminate the 3rd district in its current formation, to provide enough population for the four black Atlanta districts (the 5th, 4th, 13th, and new 3rd).

The whiter areas of the Atlanta area are paired together to make a new 10th district, which is in fact the bluest district on the map. The rest of the map was drawn prioritizing compactness and avoiding county splits when possible, getting rid of ugly aspects of the current map like the 8th snaking around Macon. By 2016-2020 average, there are seven Democratic-leaning districts and seven Republican-leaning ones, so I definitely see no way that this map could possibly be considered unfair, and something like this should certainly be considered when the map is being redrawn.



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I don’t think there’s much risk of the white candidate of choice winning a Democratic primary of any hypothetical Black influence district in the Atlanta area. You can draw 4 districts in the Atlanta area with identical demographics and without drawing them into genuinely rural territory south of the city, much less cutting into suburban Macon or Columbus.

I'm pretty sure (maybe I am wrong) that this was intended as a joke way to draw a (mild, honestly) Democratic gerrymander but claim it isn't one and justify it on VRA grounds, poking fun at various attempts to justify Republican gerrymanders in other contexts.
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Oryxslayer
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« Reply #939 on: November 02, 2023, 04:09:47 PM »

I guess I'll mention DRA added GA 2022 election data today in preparation for the remap. But there are missing the crucial runoff data, which is when Warnock flipped legislative districts.
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windjammer
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« Reply #940 on: November 11, 2023, 07:49:00 AM »

With the LA ruling I suppose it is likely GA gets an another black Seat?
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Tintrlvr
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« Reply #941 on: November 11, 2023, 08:35:06 AM »

With the LA ruling I suppose it is likely GA gets an another black Seat?

There was a separate ruling in GA requiring the same, thus the flurry of posts here recently.
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Oryxslayer
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« Reply #942 on: November 11, 2023, 11:55:27 AM »

With the LA ruling I suppose it is likely GA gets an another black Seat?

There was a separate ruling in GA requiring the same, thus the flurry of posts here recently.

yes, but to add, the LA ruling has no or almost no bearing on the GA case. One is under the authority of the 5th, the other the 11th. The only connecting thread is that Milligan and subsequent Supreme Court orders means that both are forced into a position they did not expect to be in, and can't easily wiggle out of.
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windjammer
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« Reply #943 on: November 11, 2023, 12:12:22 PM »

With the LA ruling I suppose it is likely GA gets an another black Seat?

There was a separate ruling in GA requiring the same, thus the flurry of posts here recently.

yes, but to add, the LA ruling has no or almost no bearing on the GA case. One is under the authority of the 5th, the other the 11th. The only connecting thread is that Milligan and subsequent Supreme Court orders means that both are forced into a position they did not expect to be in, and can't easily wiggle out of.
The 5th is more conservative than the 11th right?
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MaxQue
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« Reply #944 on: November 11, 2023, 12:15:22 PM »

With the LA ruling I suppose it is likely GA gets an another black Seat?

There was a separate ruling in GA requiring the same, thus the flurry of posts here recently.

yes, but to add, the LA ruling has no or almost no bearing on the GA case. One is under the authority of the 5th, the other the 11th. The only connecting thread is that Milligan and subsequent Supreme Court orders means that both are forced into a position they did not expect to be in, and can't easily wiggle out of.
The 5th is more conservative than the 11th right?

Yes. Also, Georgia did not appeal the decision, for some reason.
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Stuart98
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« Reply #945 on: November 12, 2023, 02:04:22 AM »

With the LA ruling I suppose it is likely GA gets an another black Seat?

There was a separate ruling in GA requiring the same, thus the flurry of posts here recently.

yes, but to add, the LA ruling has no or almost no bearing on the GA case. One is under the authority of the 5th, the other the 11th. The only connecting thread is that Milligan and subsequent Supreme Court orders means that both are forced into a position they did not expect to be in, and can't easily wiggle out of.
The 5th is more conservative than the 11th right?

Yes. Also, Georgia did not appeal the decision, for some reason.
Probably saw the writing on the wall with all the other rulings lately. The legislature simply complying with the court order gives them a chance to contain the damage; they have a lot more to lose from a court imposed redraw than AL and LA did, if the courts redraw it all Biden probably wins a majority in all three maps.
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Oryxslayer
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« Reply #946 on: November 19, 2023, 03:24:42 PM »

Effortpost time:


The special session is called for ten days from now on November 29th to meet the deadline of December 8th.  It will likely be short based on past precedent, with maps already decided ahead of time.

The assumption right now is that the State GOP are actually complying with this order, unlike AL or LA, in light of the fact that there presently is no request for an emergency stay. This of course remains a big assumption, the actions could be a different delaying tactic or could create a product guaranteed to go to a master. But the basis for the assumption though is that Georgia Republicans fear letting a master have unchecked authority over Atlanta lines. A master would try for compactness first and could therefore easily ‘accidentally’ create more Democratic or competitive seats than ordered to.

Reminder, if they are to comply, then per the court’s order, existing majority-minority or access seats cannot be dismantled to create these new districts. That would de facto be a punt to the master. This applies not just to GA-07, but more importantly to the legislative remap. On all levels, Dems seats fall into one of the following categories: too diverse to be dismantled under these guidelines, majority-White but still diverse and necessary for packing Dem voters in key areas, or dominated by White Liberals but too far from the remapping areas to be made into the new access seats. Barring something too ugly to be accepted by the court under racial gerrymadering examination, it will be GOP-held seats transformed. But one wonders if the legislature will use this excuse to fortify their districts in non-specified areas and try to strengthen their electoral wall right in front of the finish line.

For all plaintiff maps proposed ahead, the following should be noted. Cooper’s maps – the colored ones – redrew the entire state to create appealing alternatives. Esselstyn’s maps – the green and grey ones – redrew as minimal as possible to limit disruptions. Therefore, his districts are uglier since he has less to work with. Additionally, the burdens of proof are different for the remapping process than in a courtroom. Plaintiffs must meet the 50% threshold (or prove beyond doubt that something lower works), meet Gingles, and qualify overall under the established ‘Senate Factors.’ The state meanwhile just has to avoid racial gerrymandering when drawing districts that beyond doubt can be proven to perform as access districts. The new congressional district for example could very likely not be 50% African American, since there are a lot of Hispanic residents around Marietta, but still would be found to perform under RPV.

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Oryxslayer
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« Reply #947 on: November 24, 2023, 01:29:14 PM »
« Edited: November 24, 2023, 04:51:24 PM by Oryxslayer »

Georgia has appealed the court's decision, as they said they would. There is no request for an emergency stay or examination of the case, as the state additionally said it would. This is despite the fact that Georgia hypothetically would have had cover by the 8th's recent decision to attempt at a strategy change.

Five days until the Special Session, and not much longer after that until a Master gets ordered if there is no adequate remedy. Unless this is a new attempt at a delaying tactic, everything is still proceeding as expected. No public maps yet.


Also today, we had a ruling from the 11th that upheld the method of electing PSC members statewide. This is an instance of trial length and circumstantial evidence working against the minority plaintiffs who wanted districts, since one of the main parts of the ruling is that minority candidates are increasingly getting large shares of the vote and/or winning statewide.
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Oryxslayer
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« Reply #948 on: November 27, 2023, 08:40:51 AM »

Senate will supposedly begin releasing maps today. So we'll be able to see if the GOP has any intention of complying,  or is willing to risk it all with a master.
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Gass3268
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« Reply #949 on: November 27, 2023, 02:34:42 PM »

Senate will supposedly begin releasing maps today. So we'll be able to see if the GOP has any intention of complying,  or is willing to risk it all with a master.

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