Mideast Constitutional Convention

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Why don't we make Superior Court nomination up to the Governor with the approval of the Assembly.  That seems better than both the current template and Purple State's amendment.

[HappyWarrior]

Why don't we make Superior Court nomination up to the Governor with the approval of the Assembly.  That seems better than both the current template and Purple State's amendment.

Excellent idea Inks.  I support it.

[Purple State]

I still think the Superior Court should be more of a "Special Judge" type of thing, where the Governor appoints a temporary judge that must be approved by the court.

I will reword Amendment 7.


Amendment 7

1. Article 2, Section 2, Clause 1, which currently reads: "In order to be nominated to the Superior Court, a person shall be nominated jointly by the Governor and Lieutenant Governor."
shall be changed to read: "In order to be nominated to the Superior Court, a person shall be nominated by the Governor or Speaker of the Assembly."
2. Article 2, Section 2, Clause 2, which currently reads: "The nomination shall then be voted on by the Assembly."
shall be changed to read: "The nomination shall then be confirmed by a majority vote of the Assembly."
3. The following shall be inserted into Article 2, Section 2 as Clause 3:

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I keep the Speaker in there in case the Governor refuses to nominate a justice to hear his own case.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I propose the following as

Amendment 8:

1. Article 2, Section 2, Clause 1, which currently reads: "In order to be nominated to the Superior Court, a person shall be nominated jointly by the Governor and Lieutenant Governor."
shall be changed to read: "In order to be nominated to the Superior Court, a person shall be nominated by the Governor."
2. Article 2, Section 2, Clause 2, which currently reads: "The nomination shall then be voted on by the Assembly."
shall be changed to read: "The nomination shall then be confirmed by a majority vote of the Assembly."


Basically, it's PS's amendment, but I want the position permanent.  Won't it be funny if people pass both of these. 

[SPC]

Aye to Purple States' amendment. His seems to insure against chaos in the event of low activity.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Aye to Purple States' amendment. His seems to insure against chaos in the event of low activity.

We already have a provision for that, that allows for the temporary takeover of the government in the absence of the Governor.

[Purple State]

Ok, so for the sake of convenience and expedition, I think it would be best to leave another 24 hours for discussion of the Amendments. After that I will package them into a number of omnibus packages with a few outliers. Basically, I will place basic corrections in one package and major points as separate issues.

Please discuss what has been proposed so we know if there are any objections, etc. And feel free to post your own amendments.

[afleitch]

Grand idea.

[Purple State]

Seeing as there is no further need for discussion, I bring the following Amendments to the floor for a vote:


Amendment 1:
1. Article I, Section 1, Clause 2, which currently reads: "No person shall be Governor who is not a registered voter resident in the Mideast Region."
shall be changed to read: "No person shall be Governor who is not a registered voter residing in the Mideast Region."

2. Article III, Section  1, Cluase 2, which currently reads: "The Assembly shall be composed of three members, each of whom shall be resident in the Mideast Region."
shall be changed to read: "The Assembly shall be composed of three members, each of whom shall be registered voters residing in the Mideast Region."

3. Article III, Section III, Clause 1-2, which currently reads: "Propositions shall be proposed by the Governor after such legislation has failed in the Assembly, but votes shall only begin between two and fourteen days after the legislation has failed. / Voting on Propositions shall conclude exactly 72 hours after beginning."
shall be changed to read: "Propositions shall be proposed by the Governor after such legislation has failed in the Assembly.  Voting shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the first Thursday proposal and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after beginning."

4. Article VI, Section 1, Clause 2, which currently reads: "Votes on such Amendments shall last for exactly 72 hours, and shall begin between two and fourteen days after proposal."
shall be changed to read: "Voting on such Amendents shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the first Thursday proposal and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after beginning."

5. Article IV, Section 2, Clause 5b, which currently reads: "...If he is also unavailable, then the Judge shall administer the elections."
shall be changed to read: "If he or she is also unavailable, then the Judge shall administer the elections."

6. Article II, Section 1, Clause 4, which currently reads: "The Superior Court shall arbitrate in all disputes concerning Gubernatorial elections."
shall be changed to read: "The Superior Court shall arbitrate in all disputes concerning regional elections."


Amendment 2:
Article VI, Section 1, Clause 1, which currently reads: "The Governor or the Assembly shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, which shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of this Constitution when ratified by a two-thirds majority of the People voting."
shall be changed to read: "The Governor, the Assembly, or a group of at least 25% of the registered voters in the Mideast shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, which shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of this Constitution when ratified by a two-thirds majority of the People voting."


Amendment 3:
1. The following shall be inserted into Article III as "Section 4: Initiatives":

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2. Article III, Section 4, which currently reads: "Section 4: Recall" shall be changed to read: "Section 5: Recall".


Amendment 4:

1. Article 3, Section 1, Clause 3, which currently reads: "The Assembly shall have the power to choose its own officers, including a Speaker, and judge the qualifications of its members."
shall be changed to read: "The Assembly shall have the power to choose its own officers, including a Speaker, and accept or deny the seating of new members by a unanimous vote."


Amendment 5:

1. The following shall be inserted into Article 1 as "Section 4: The Wiki":

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We also have two competing amendments to vote on. For this vote please choose one and only one option:

Amendment 6: Option 1 Sponsor: Speaker Purple State

1. Article 2, Section 2, Clause 1, which currently reads: "In order to be nominated to the Superior Court, a person shall be nominated jointly by the Governor and Lieutenant Governor."
shall be changed to read: "In order to be nominated to the Superior Court, a person shall be nominated by the Governor or Speaker of the Assembly."
2. Article 2, Section 2, Clause 2, which currently reads: "The nomination shall then be voted on by the Assembly."
shall be changed to read: "The nomination shall then be confirmed by a majority vote of the Assembly."
3. The following shall be inserted into Article 2, Section 2 as Clause 3:

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Amendment 6: Option 2 Sponsor: Governor Inks

1. Article 2, Section 2, Clause 1, which currently reads: "In order to be nominated to the Superior Court, a person shall be nominated jointly by the Governor and Lieutenant Governor."
shall be changed to read: "In order to be nominated to the Superior Court, a person shall be nominated by the Governor."
2. Article 2, Section 2, Clause 2, which currently reads: "The nomination shall then be voted on by the Assembly."
shall be changed to read: "The nomination shall then be confirmed by a majority vote of the Assembly."


So for Amendments 1-5 please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain. For Amendment 6 please indicate Option 1, Option 2, Nay, or Abstain.

This vote shall last 48 hours from the moment of posting.

[Purple State]

Amendments 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5

Aye to all

Amendment 6

Aye to Option 1

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Amendment 1:
AYE


Amendment 2:
AYE


Amendment 3:
AYE


Amendment 4:

NAY


Amendment 5:

AYE


Amendment 6: Option 2 Sponsor: Governor Inks

AYE

[afleitch]

Aye on 1,2,3,4,5

Aye on 6; Option 1

[Franzl]

1: AYE
2: AYE
3: AYE
4: NAY
5: AYE
6: AYE to Option 2

[Hash]

Aye on 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5.

Aye on 6; Option 1.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

If I may address the Convention,

I'd like to encourage the passage of my version of Amendment 6.  Already, we have had 2 Superior Court cases within the period of a month.  I think this shows that there is a need for a judge, and to make that position temporary makes no sense.

Furthermore, the provision never specifies when the Speaker can nominate a judge.  I know that Purple State's intent was to put that provision in there in case the Governor does not nominate somebody, but the way it reads now, the Speaker could nominate somebody even if  the Governor nominated somebody and then vote to accept his nominee and not the Governor's.  Making the nomination process a case-by-case nomination opens the door for ethics problems where a judge is nominated because he is expected to rule one way or the other.  Keeping the position permanent gets rid of this problem.

Again, I encourage the passage of Option 2 of Amendment 6, and the rejection of Option 1.

[Purple State]

If I may address the Convention,

I'd like to encourage the passage of my version of Amendment 6.  Already, we have had 2 Superior Court cases within the period of a month.  I think this shows that there is a need for a judge, and to make that position temporary makes no sense.

Furthermore, the provision never specifies when the Speaker can nominate a judge.  I know that Purple State's intent was to put that provision in there in case the Governor does not nominate somebody, but the way it reads now, the Speaker could nominate somebody even if  the Governor nominated somebody and then vote to accept his nominee and not the Governor's.  Making the nomination process a case-by-case nomination opens the door for ethics problems where a judge is nominated because he is expected to rule one way or the other.  Keeping the position permanent gets rid of this problem.

Again, I encourage the passage of Option 2 of Amendment 6, and the rejection of Option 1.

If there are holes in the exact wording of mine I would gladly field additional amendments. However, two cases in the span of a month is to overshoot just a little. The first case was quickly withdrawn. In addition, cases seem to take a particularly long time to get started when only one person has the right to hear them. MasterJedi does do a modest job at getting to cases quickly; however, it may not always be the case.

I would recommend passage of Option 1 for Amendment 6, followed by an additional amendment to hammer out the worries you expressed. Those worries, on the other hand, do not discount the idea of a temporary judge.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

My worries do lie in the fact that it's temporary.  The fact that it is temporary means that different judges could be chosen for different reasons.

For instance, let's say that the Governor knows that citizen X feels a certain way about subject A, and would rule in favor of him in a court case.  Then, subject B comes up in a lawsuit and the Governor knows that citizen X disagrees with him on that subject, so he picks citizen Y, who agrees with him.

It opens up to many problems for picking judges who will simply side with the Governor.

I see no reason not to have a permanent judge.  If he becomes too busy to quickly handle cases, he can resign.

[Purple State]

That is why approval by the Assembly is required. I believe there is ample protections provided by Option 1, as well as sufficient assurance that conflicts of interest are prevented.

I would welcome other provisions to further prevent such conflicts; however, I do not think minor kinks should lead to the disregard of the entire concept. It will be up to those voting to decide between the two options.


Voting Update:

The following votes have been tallied with 36 hours remaining for votes to be cast. A quorum has been met.

Amendment 1: Passing
Aye = 5
Nay = 0
Abstain = 0

Amendment 2: Passing
Aye = 5
Nay = 0
Abstain = 0

Amendment 3: Passing
Aye = 5
Nay = 0
Abstain = 0

Amendment 4: Passing
Aye = 3
Nay = 2
Abstain = 0

Amendment 5: Passing
Aye = 5
Nay = 0
Abstain = 0

Amendment 6: Option 1
Option 1 = 3
Option 2 = 2
Nay = 0
Abstain = 0

[Purple State]

Voting has ended. Amendments 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 pass. Amendment 6, Option 1 passes.

I will try to post a copy of the current version here with the updates for review.

[Purple State]

The updated Constitution can be found HERE.

Because of concerns with conflicts that may arise due to the wording of Amendment 6, Option 1, I will field ideas for fixes to ensure that the Governor is given priority in the decision, in addition to a mechanism to ensure that a conflict of interest transfers that power to the Speaker.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

The updated Constitution can be found HERE.

Because of concerns with conflicts that may arise due to the wording of Amendment 6, Option 1, I will field ideas for fixes to ensure that the Governor is given priority in the decision, in addition to a mechanism to ensure that a conflict of interest transfers that power to the Speaker.

Give the Governor 36 hours to appoint somebody.

[Purple State]

Edited:


Amendment 6a

Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 which currently reads: "In order to be nominated to the Superior Court, a person shall be nominated by the Governor or Speaker of the Assembly."
shall hereby be amended to read: "In order to be nominated to the Superior Court, a person shall be nominated by the Governor of the Mideast. In the event that 60 hours elapse from the time of a case being filed in the Mideast Superior Court without such action taken by the Governor, said responsibility shall fall exclusively to the Speaker of the Assembly."

Article II, Section 2 shall hereby include the following as Clause 3, with all other clauses numbered accordingly:

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Discuss.

[Franzl]

36 hours is kind of short, if you ask me.

I wish Option 1 hadn't passed....but if we have to do it that way, at least allow the governor to retain his authority for a reasonable period of time.

I'd say 5 days or so.

[Purple State]

First, elections for presiding officer will open tomorrow whenever I can get them up. Sometime in the afternoon is my guess. If there are no objections, I would like to run again.

36 hours is kind of short, if you ask me.

I wish Option 1 hadn't passed....but if we have to do it that way, at least allow the governor to retain his authority for a reasonable period of time.

I'd say 5 days or so.

I am just worried that providing 5 days allows for too much delay of the Governor's duties. But I do understand the concern that 36 hours is not enough time to decide these things. Perhaps 60 hours (2.5 days) would be better?

[Franzl]

I guess that'd be an acceptable compromise.

I know I've been gone for a couple of days at a time before, though, and it seems kind of harsh to simply snatch away the Governor's power so easily.

I understand the reasons for it, of course. Nothing can move forward if the Governor isn't there for whatever reason...so yeah, I'll accept the 60 hours.