So Russia and Georgia just went to war

[Eraserhead]

CNN:

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Anyone feel it getting a little Cold?

Russia's too big for us to be on its wrong side for long. Bush can do this since he'll be out soon.

Russia is a joke. They never ever had a lead in the Cold War ever. We'd own them in a month or less.

Ha. Good one.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Why does Georgia want to keep these areas so badly anyway? Is having your country look bigger on a map that important?

Don't know. Where is this important pipeline to be located everyone is talking about? Anywhere near S.O.?

[opebo]

Why does Georgia want to keep these areas so badly anyway? Is having your country look bigger on a map that important?

As I understand it, 'South Ossetia' is an intrusion south of the Caucausus mountains, which form the northern natural defense of Georgia.  The other breakaway region is also south of these mountains and represents a large part of the coast of the country.  So I think these are pretty awkward regions to lose strategically - of course Georgia's position is pretty much untenable anyway.

[Meeker]

And to go off what opebo said, I think it may also have to do with not wanting to give into the demands of the break-aways. If they start to disintegrate, where do they stop?

(Someone please correct me if I'm wrong)

[bgwah]

They've fought wars, had referendums clearly stating the population's wish to leave Georgia, and they are basically their own country right now anyway (they simply don't have international recognition).

And it's a question about having these autonomous areas in general. Why does Italy want to keep South Tryol so badly, for example? It just doesn't make sense to me. They give them so much autonomy--why not just let them leave?

[dead0man]

I'm not sure how (I've been busy with research), but this somehow ties into Kosovo -- Russia is "liberating" "oppressed" Ossetians in Georgia in the way "NATO" "liberated" "oppressed" Kosovar Muslims in Serbia. But damned if the Georgians expect the European NATO members to do a thing about it, since they didn't do a thing in the Balkans as well. The US can't, either -- not because of nuclear fears, but simply because the country is too far away from any real ally.

Have you looked at a map recently?  Turkey and Iraq are right next door.  Greece, Kuwait and Israel aren't to much further.  We flew tons of sorties out of the middle of Missouri when we invaded Iraq.

Again, it won't be lack of ability that keeps the US from helping the Georgians defend themselves.

[2952-0-0]

The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming!

[??????????]

The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming!

We should be giving air support to the Georgians.

[Josh/Devilman88]

Like I said in the other thread, Georgia is a very key country in that area. Look at where its at. Iran and Iraq are just a skip and a hop away. Georgia had 2,000 troops in Iraq helping us, we owe them help.

[2952-0-0]

Latest news says that Comrade Joe's hometown has fallen to the Russians.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming!

The problem with these articles, and with this war in general is that we just have: "Georgian official says", "Russian official says", who to trust...?

With hope to have more "according to our reporter..."

[Dan the Roman]

Like I said in the other thread, Georgia is a very key country in that area. Look at where its at. Iran and Iraq are just a skip and a hop away. Georgia had 2,000 troops in Iraq helping us, we owe them help.

If it is limited to air support fine. But if we truly get involved, and I mean in a shooting war with the Russians, whats to stop them from widening the conflict to the Baltic states that are in no position to defend themselves? At the end of the day we can't stop the Russians from doing what they want with air power alone.

[Meeker]

Like I said in the other thread, Georgia is a very key country in that area. Look at where its at. Iran and Iraq are just a skip and a hop away. Georgia had 2,000 troops in Iraq helping us, we owe them help.

If it is limited to air support fine. But if we truly get involved, and I mean in a shooting war with the Russians, whats to stop them from widening the conflict to the Baltic states that are in no position to defend themselves? At the end of the day we can't stop the Russians from doing what they want with air power alone.

But, but... we're America!

[Dan the Roman]

Like I said in the other thread, Georgia is a very key country in that area. Look at where its at. Iran and Iraq are just a skip and a hop away. Georgia had 2,000 troops in Iraq helping us, we owe them help.

If it is limited to air support fine. But if we truly get involved, and I mean in a shooting war with the Russians, whats to stop them from widening the conflict to the Baltic states that are in no position to defend themselves? At the end of the day we can't stop the Russians from doing what they want with air power alone.

But, but... we're America!

We are not superman. We would need approval to use either Turkish, Armenian, Azeri, or Iranian(highly unlikely) airspace. The first three have concrete reasons why they would not want to give us permission to use their airspace to kill Russians, and the later for obvious reasons are enjoying themselves at the moment. Second, this is a lot more like Kosovo in terms of terrain than Gulf War I, and are air strikes weren't particularly effective against the Serbian army. Its unclear how much they would slow down the Russians.

[Josh/Devilman88]

We could with big Nukes! Just Picking.

[minionofmidas]

Latest news says that Comrade Joe's hometown has fallen to the Russians.

Seems that Georgia evacuated the town hours ago, but the Russians have not entered it... at least hadn't two hours ago.

[Sam Spade]

Still hard to get a feel for how exactly things are going (and the propaganda is getting ridiculous) but I suspect there's at least a 50-50 chance the Russians may try to simply go for the quick kill now rather than wait it out.

[dead0man]

You guys are giving the Russian military WAY to much credit here.

[Boris]

The US can't, either -- not because of nuclear fears, but simply because the country is too far away from any real ally.

They could theoretically use Turkish airbases, but I doubt the Turks or NATO are in much of a mood to engage in a full-scale shooting war with Russia.

[Flying Dog]

The US can't, either -- not because of nuclear fears, but simply because the country is too far away from any real ally.

They could theoretically use Turkish airbases, but I doubt the Turks or NATO are in much of a mood to engage in a full-scale shooting war with Russia.

Hmm... I wonder who would push the red button first?

[StateBoiler]

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1831523,00.html

[dead0man]

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1831523,00.html

I agree.  These people want to swallow the lies their leaders tell them.

[Jake]

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1831523,00.html

Important parts:

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Something tells me this is motivated less by nationalism than by the poor state of the Russian lower class.

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A depressingly common facet of 21st century warfare.

[Flying Dog]

So, what do you guys think the chances of Russian tanks rolling into Tbilisi are?

[Meeker]

If Russia takes over the country, they wouldn't actually annex it, would they? They'd just install some sort of puppet government. Annexing countries isn't really "in" anymore.