Which drugs do you think should be legal for personal use?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

admitting drug use on a public forum is pretty dumb, just for your info

Anything you put on the internet becomes permanent for all time and you don't know who your employers will be in 20-30 years.

Yep, can't bellieve he admitted to using Mushrooms LOL.

Who did?

[MK]

"Ignorance shouldn't be forgiven. It makes the ignorant person feel like they aren't ignorant"

The only Ignorance here is the folks who think hard drugs should be sold to people like candy.

While illegal drugs may yield some medical benefits for certain patients, there are a lot of other factors to consider. Most illegal drugs are illegal due to their severe side effects to the body. Generally they are documented to cause brain damage, heart problems, and other physical and mental diseases. Many of these drugs are also known to cause addictions, as well. I've already said I favor making marijuana legal ( waste of money fighting that war), but not the other stuff.   It is ridiculous to assume that by making these types of drugs legal that would somehow stop crime.   How in the hell are you going to stop crime by just making the drugs legal?  They would still be for sale, which means somebody has to have money to buy them. Do you really think the addict will be able to afford the heavily taxed and priced hard drugs now?   In theory would you put cartels out of business.. Yea maybe.  But the new front would now be on our home turf as it relates Crime and healthcare for these people. This is what most pro- drug  people like you, guys don't understand.  We all agree that drugs are harmful to the body right?    Why make this stuff legal to the public knowing the  effects, and sure you can bring up Tobacco and Alcohol " what about them" - you are messing the point.

I hate the drug debate because it always turns into a name calling feast.  The other side will never respect the conservative view point.  The stupid thing is that I've already said I would make Marijuana legal if I had my way.

I respect the liberal view point, but I strongly disagree with it for the reasons I stated. 75% of current politicians agree with me on this for what its worth.  Think about who's in the room with you before saying my view is Ignorance.


Srry for no reply after last night.. went ZZZ at the keyboard LOL


I respect the liberal view point, but I strongly disagree with it for the reasons I stated.

[Earth]

"Ignorance shouldn't be forgiven. It makes the ignorant person feel like they aren't

ignorant"

The only Ignorance here is the folks who think hard drugs should be sold to people like
candy.

I'm sorry, no one said drugs should be sold like candy. The point is people will always want to do drugs, no matter the law, so it should be legal for people, if that's what they decide. You have to drop this thinly veiled notion that only drug users would argue for legalization, or that pro-legalization people want to create ice cream truck drug shops.

While illegal drugs may yield some medical benefits for certain patients, there are a lot of other factors to consider. Most illegal drugs are illegal due to their severe side effects to the body. Generally they are documented to cause brain damage, heart problems, and other physical and mental diseases. Many of these drugs are also known to
cause addictions, as well.

So then why the massive discrepancy between hard drugs that are illegal, and hard drugs
such as alcohol, and tobacco? The point being, that drugs are not illegal because of their physical risk, they're illegal because of the perceived social risk. The risk to culture, and morality. Many anti-drug laws in america were created because of a fictitious threat of foreigners, and the black population. Heroin, more specifically, smoking opium was banned in 1875 because of an asian scare. Marijuana in 1937 under the Harrison tax act. They made these drugs illegal because of the high use by blacks, and mexicans. Not simply because they're a health hazard.

I've already said I favor making marijuana legal ( waste of money fighting that war), but not the other stuff.

There's no difference between a "war on marijuana", and a "war on drugs", they're both apart of the same ill conceived fight.

It is ridiculous to assume that by making these types of drugs legal that would somehow stop crime.   How in the hell are you going to stop crime by just making the drugs legal?

Why do you these cartels, and street gangs wage war? Because of the power that illegal drugs let them have. By making drugs illegal, these gangs now resort to violence to keep their place in the trade strong. And they can afford to buy all the weapons they need because of the high price of drugs. It's a never ending cycle. They buy drugs from suppliers cheaply, and in order to remain dominant, they sell the drugs at a higher price, raking in the money to fund their operation even more.

By making drugs legal, any number of legal businesses could be created, and that would drive the price down remarkably, effecting these cartels and gangs. The reason the mafia became so large and powerful was because of the money they made by supplying alcohol in the era of prohibition. By making alcohol illegal, these criminals didn't mind, they created, and shipped in alcohol, and they made millions. When they legalized alcohol again  in 1933, the average business could now create alcohol legally, and the mob lost their control over the alcohol supply. The same would be true for drugs. That is, if america is willing to try.

They would still be for sale, which means somebody has to have money to buy them. Do you really think the addict will be able to afford the heavily taxed and priced hard drugs now?

Is alcohol so heavily taxed that people can't afford it? No. Drugs would not be as heavily taxed, either. The demand for them would be too high. The addict now has trouble affording drugs, which leads to crime in order to fill their addiction. By legalizing it, the addict doesn't have to worry about being arrested, and neither does the average citizen.

In
theory would you put cartels out of business.. Yea maybe.  But the new front would now be on our home turf as it relates Crime and healthcare for these people. This is what most pro- drug  people like you, guys don't understand.  We all agree that drugs are harmful to the body right?    Why make this stuff legal to the public knowing the  effects, and sure you can bring up Tobacco and Alcohol " what about them" - you are messing the point.

What is the point we're missing? Why don't you address that point about alcohol and drugs?
Alcohol is also dangerous to the body, yet it's legal. It's a double standard. No one is saying drugs are harmless, or even mixing the effects as though it's all the same, but it's no use using billions of dollars to fight an unsuccessful war.

If it's about health care, ending the war on drugs would free up billions of dollar each year. The government could then use those funds more responsibly, for whatever the reason, health care, education, infrastructure, social security, etc.

I hate the drug debate because it always turns into a name calling feast.  The other side will never respect the conservative view point.  The stupid thing is that I've already said I would make Marijuana legal if I had my way.

I respect the liberal view point, but I strongly disagree with it for the reasons I stated. 75% of current politicians agree with me on this for what its worth.  Think about who's in the room with you before saying my view is Ignorance.

To be fair, I haven't called you names, I've been keeping my argument civil. There's no respect to give to the conservative view on drugs, because the conservative view is what got us into this mess we're in currently. I respect your opinion, but I don't see anything helpful about continuing down this road. Politicians have let us down time and time again regarding drugs.

[MK]

"Ignorance shouldn't be forgiven. It makes the ignorant person feel like they aren't

ignorant"

The only Ignorance here is the folks who think hard drugs should be sold to people like
candy.

I'm sorry, no one said drugs should be sold like candy. The point is people will always want to do drugs, no matter the law, so it should be legal for people, if that's what they decide. You have to drop this thinly veiled notion that only drug users would argue for legalization, or that pro-legalization people want to create ice cream truck drug shops.

While illegal drugs may yield some medical benefits for certain patients, there are a lot of other factors to consider. Most illegal drugs are illegal due to their severe side effects to the body. Generally they are documented to cause brain damage, heart problems, and other physical and mental diseases. Many of these drugs are also known to
cause addictions, as well.

So then why the massive discrepancy between hard drugs that are illegal, and hard drugs
such as alcohol, and tobacco? The point being, that drugs are not illegal because of their physical risk, they're illegal because of the perceived social risk. The risk to culture, and morality. Many anti-drug laws in america were created because of a fictitious threat of foreigners, and the black population. Heroin, more specifically, smoking opium was banned in 1875 because of an asian scare. Marijuana in 1937 under the Harrison tax act. They made these drugs illegal because of the high use by blacks, and mexicans. Not simply because they're a health hazard.

I've already said I favor making marijuana legal ( waste of money fighting that war), but not the other stuff.

There's no difference between a "war on marijuana", and a "war on drugs", they're both apart of the same ill conceived fight.

It is ridiculous to assume that by making these types of drugs legal that would somehow stop crime.   How in the hell are you going to stop crime by just making the drugs legal?

Why do you these cartels, and street gangs wage war? Because of the power that illegal drugs let them have. By making drugs illegal, these gangs now resort to violence to keep their place in the trade strong. And they can afford to buy all the weapons they need because of the high price of drugs. It's a never ending cycle. They buy drugs from suppliers cheaply, and in order to remain dominant, they sell the drugs at a higher price, raking in the money to fund their operation even more.

By making drugs legal, any number of legal businesses could be created, and that would drive the price down remarkably, effecting these cartels and gangs. The reason the mafia became so large and powerful was because of the money they made by supplying alcohol in the era of prohibition. By making alcohol illegal, these criminals didn't mind, they created, and shipped in alcohol, and they made millions. When they legalized alcohol again  in 1933, the average business could now create alcohol legally, and the mob lost their control over the alcohol supply. The same would be true for drugs. That is, if america is willing to try.

They would still be for sale, which means somebody has to have money to buy them. Do you really think the addict will be able to afford the heavily taxed and priced hard drugs now?

Is alcohol so heavily taxed that people can't afford it? No. Drugs would not be as heavily taxed, either. The demand for them would be too high. The addict now has trouble affording drugs, which leads to crime in order to fill their addiction. By legalizing it, the addict doesn't have to worry about being arrested, and neither does the average citizen.

In
theory would you put cartels out of business.. Yea maybe.  But the new front would now be on our home turf as it relates Crime and healthcare for these people. This is what most pro- drug  people like you, guys don't understand.  We all agree that drugs are harmful to the body right?    Why make this stuff legal to the public knowing the  effects, and sure you can bring up Tobacco and Alcohol " what about them" - you are messing the point.

What is the point we're missing? Why don't you address that point about alcohol and drugs?
Alcohol is also dangerous to the body, yet it's legal. It's a double standard. No one is saying drugs are harmless, or even mixing the effects as though it's all the same, but it's no use using billions of dollars to fight an unsuccessful war.

If it's about health care, ending the war on drugs would free up billions of dollar each year. The government could use then use those funds more responsibly, for whatever the reason, health care, education, infrastructure, social security, etc.

I hate the drug debate because it always turns into a name calling feast.  The other side will never respect the conservative view point.  The stupid thing is that I've already said I would make Marijuana legal if I had my way.

I respect the liberal view point, but I strongly disagree with it for the reasons I stated. 75% of current politicians agree with me on this for what its worth.  Think about who's in the room with you before saying my view is Ignorance.

To be fair, I haven't called you names, I've been keeping my argument civil. There's no respect to give to the conservative view on drugs, because the conservative view is what got us into this mess we're in currently. I respect your opinion, but I don't see anything helpful about continuing down this road. Politicians have let us down time and time again regarding drugs.

I guess that just about sums it up.

[Matt Damon™]

the majority of the electorate or politicians favoring a position does not make it correct

[Earth]

I guess that just about sums it up.

Jesus Christ. This just tells me you haven't thought out your position. You don't even try to refute my points.

[MK]

I guess that just about sums it up.

Jesus Christ. This just tells me you haven't thought out your position. You don't even try to refute my points.

I already have and you keep injecting the typical leftist views of make everything legal.  Like I said before this debate never gets anywhere.  You just admitted you have no respect for the conservative view, so why should I even continue?

Iam a shy person by nature and like to avoid arguments.

[Earth]

Where have you refuted the points I bring up? All you've said in this thread is "I don't agree" without backing up anything. Simply repeating it isn't an actual discussion.

My "typical leftist" view is shared also by the right, Libertarians specifically. If you like to avoid arguments I'm wondering why you're on a political forum.

[Sbane]

I guess that just about sums it up.

Jesus Christ. This just tells me you haven't thought out your position. You don't even try to refute my points.

I already have and you keep injecting the typical leftist views of make everything legal.  Like I said before this debate never gets anywhere.  You just admitted you have no respect for the conservative view, so why should I even continue?

Iam a shy person by nature and like to avoid arguments.

One thing I would like to point out. An error you make in your reasoning is assuming drug use would increase when it is legalized. So this increase in health care cost with drug legalization would be non-existent if drug use doesn't increase. The harm drugs cause is already priced into the system. I think there could be a short term spike in use if a drug is legalized but in the end I think it will be lower than current levels.

[MK]

I guess that just about sums it up.

Jesus Christ. This just tells me you haven't thought out your position. You don't even try to refute my points.

I already have and you keep injecting the typical leftist views of make everything legal.  Like I said before this debate never gets anywhere.  You just admitted you have no respect for the conservative view, so why should I even continue?

Iam a shy person by nature and like to avoid arguments.

One thing I would like to point out. An error you make in your reasoning is assuming drug use would increase when it is legalized. So this increase in health care cost with drug legalization would be non-existent if drug use doesn't increase. The harm drugs cause is already priced into the system. I think there could be a short term spike in use if a drug is legalized but in the end I think it will be lower than current levels.

There it seems like you have admitted what Ive already been saying.

 Did Alcohol use decrease when it was legalized? No. When abortion became legal, did abortions decrease? No. When an action becomes legal, the number of people carrying out that action increases. It is silly to assume that just by making this stuff easier to obtain will reduce the number of people wanting to use it. Take guns for perfect example - If right now they said all fully automatic AR-15s are legal for sale!  You can damn well bet that me and every other bubba in the south will be heading to a near by Grady's to buy one.   You talk about a "spike" and what makes you think that it will not stay a spike?

Whats the first thing Elliot Nest said when asked after prohibition was struck down.... " I think I will go have a drink"

[Four49]

It's actually NESS, not NEST.  And there's no proof he ever said that.  You should stop basing your positions on Hollywood.  I don't like to get personal, but c'mon, movies are there to entertain which unfortunately has the side effect of a misinformed public.

[MK]

It's actually NESS, not NEST.  And there's no proof he ever said that.  You should stop basing your positions on Hollywood.  I don't like to get personal, but c'mon, movies are there to entertain which unfortunately has the side effect of a misinformed public.

LOL
I see you side stepped the important part of my reply?

If fully automatic machine guns were made legal today, would the sale of them go up or down?

[Alcon]

Mike, my friend, you can't just simplify an issue to something like "will it make drug use rates go down"?  It's a far more nuanced equation.  Something like:

(Short-term drug rate increase) + (possible encouragement of drug use via legalization) + (decreased ability to force people's hand in finding help) + (whatever else)

vs.

(Decrease in associated violence due to legalization) + (positives associated with decrease in cultural taboo) + (jail space) + (reduction in gang trafficking/black market) + (whatever else)

All of these are arguable and theoretical but there's no use in latching onto one and ignoring the other.  Part of sound policy is admitting that your policy does bad evil stuff sometimes.

After all, you don't believe that the government should do everything within its power to prevent substance abuse no matter how draining it is in other effects, so there's no use in arguing exclusively within that parameter.

[MK]

It's actually NESS, not NEST.  And there's no proof he ever said that.  You should stop basing your positions on Hollywood.  I don't like to get personal, but c'mon, movies are there to entertain which unfortunately has the side effect of a misinformed public.

Unfortunately for the people who think drugs should be legal, they're on the wrong side of reality.

[Alcon]

Unfortunately for the people who think drugs should be legal, they're on the wrong side of reality.

i don't get it.  are you riffing on "unfortunately"?  seems kind of convoluted.

I mean, if you're going to demean other people's opinions instead of defending the internal consistency of your own, at least do it in a disarmingly witty and charming manner.

(please? )

[MK]

Unfortunately for the people who think drugs should be legal, they're on the wrong side of reality.

i don't get it.  are you riffing on "unfortunately"?  seems kind of convoluted.

I mean, if you're going to demean other people's opinions instead of defending the internal consistency of your own, at least do it in a disarmingly witty and charming manner.

(please? )

I think you guys know that making drugs legal would be a recipe for disaster, but when you are so into the illogical notion... you can't admit it. 

The other poster brought up the fact that drug use would decrease when made legal, . My example was a perfect one which you , nor that poster has yet to refute. 

Like I said before the drug debate gets nowhere because both sides will always be right.  It turns into a flame match most of the time.  Its not like me nor you are going to convice eachother to change our views.

[MK]

 Think about thousands of babies a year are born addicted to cocaine. I don't think these babies had any choice in the matter of taking these drugs.   I was not being "convoluted"  by saying unfortunately you guys are on the wrong side of reality. 
 

[dead0man]

Like I said before the drug debate gets nowhere because both sides will always be right.  It turns into a flame match most of the time.  Its not like me nor you are going to convice eachother to change our views.

Yeah, nobody has ever changed their mind before on the issue of drug legalization.

I don't think anybody here expects to change YOUR mind, you seem to have your ideology set in concrete (that isn't a good thing).  There are other people reading this thread that maybe haven't made their mind up yet or are torn on the issue.


(and drug legalization discussions are all rainbows and candy compared to abortion or the death penalty....you might want to avoid those.  I try to.)

[Associate Justice PiT]

Like I said before the drug debate gets nowhere because both sides will always be right.  It turns into a flame match most of the time.  Its not like me nor you are going to convice eachother to change our views.

Yeah, nobody has ever changed their mind before on the issue of drug legalization.

I don't think anybody here expects to change YOUR mind, you seem to have your ideology set in concrete (that isn't a good thing).  There are other people reading this thread that maybe haven't made their mind up yet or are torn on the issue.


(and drug legalization discussions are all rainbows and candy compared to abortion or the death penalty....you might want to avoid those.  I try to.)

     You're wise to do so. Abortion is notorious as being an issue where both sides have extremely valid positions that they are impossibly bullheaded over.

[dead0man]

Aye!  I'll stick my head into a DP debate on occasion but I don't even open abortion threads unless my masochistic side is in control that day.

[MK]

Like I said before the drug debate gets nowhere because both sides will always be right.  It turns into a flame match most of the time.  Its not like me nor you are going to convice eachother to change our views.

Yeah, nobody has ever changed their mind before on the issue of drug legalization.

I don't think anybody here expects to change YOUR mind, you seem to have your ideology set in concrete (that isn't a good thing).  There are other people reading this thread that maybe haven't made their mind up yet or are torn on the issue.


(and drug legalization discussions are all rainbows and candy compared to abortion or the death penalty....you might want to avoid those.  I try to.)

Actually the abortion and death penalty issues are pretty easy to be in the center on. The drugs issue its hard to be in the middle (hell Iam for making Mary Jane legal and you guys still want me to cave more) so you see.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Like I said before the drug debate gets nowhere because both sides will always be right.  It turns into a flame match most of the time.  Its not like me nor you are going to convice eachother to change our views.

Yeah, nobody has ever changed their mind before on the issue of drug legalization.

I don't think anybody here expects to change YOUR mind, you seem to have your ideology set in concrete (that isn't a good thing).  There are other people reading this thread that maybe haven't made their mind up yet or are torn on the issue.


(and drug legalization discussions are all rainbows and candy compared to abortion or the death penalty....you might want to avoid those.  I try to.)

Actually the abortion and death penalty issues are pretty easy to be in the center on. The drugs issue its hard to be in the middle (hell Iam for making Mary Jane legal and you guys still want me to cave more) so you see.

     We fall pretty far to the left on drugs here. I used to consider myself right-wing on the issue of drugs because I oppose the legalization of Heroin, Meth, & PCP.

[dead0man]

I just noticed 73 people have voted in this poll, how close is that to the record?

[© tweed]

I just noticed 73 people have voted in this poll, how close is that to the record?

not even close

[Sbane]

I guess that just about sums it up.

Jesus Christ. This just tells me you haven't thought out your position. You don't even try to refute my points.

I already have and you keep injecting the typical leftist views of make everything legal.  Like I said before this debate never gets anywhere.  You just admitted you have no respect for the conservative view, so why should I even continue?

Iam a shy person by nature and like to avoid arguments.

One thing I would like to point out. An error you make in your reasoning is assuming drug use would increase when it is legalized. So this increase in health care cost with drug legalization would be non-existent if drug use doesn't increase. The harm drugs cause is already priced into the system. I think there could be a short term spike in use if a drug is legalized but in the end I think it will be lower than current levels.

There it seems like you have admitted what Ive already been saying.

 Did Alcohol use decrease when it was legalized? No. When abortion became legal, did abortions decrease? No. When an action becomes legal, the number of people carrying out that action increases. It is silly to assume that just by making this stuff easier to obtain will reduce the number of people wanting to use it. Take guns for perfect example - If right now they said all fully automatic AR-15s are legal for sale!  You can damn well bet that me and every other bubba in the south will be heading to a near by Grady's to buy one.   You talk about a "spike" and what makes you think that it will not stay a spike?

Whats the first thing Elliot Nest said when asked after prohibition was struck down.... " I think I will go have a drink"

It will not stay a spike because most people try drugs only a few times in their lives, at least that is my experience with marijuana. Many would try it just because it was legal and then discontinue use. And no smoking it once, or doing most drugs once, won't cause a habit. You would willingly have to form it. This is also why I would not support legalizing the most addictive drugs, as the chance of drug abuse is much higher. I would not see a problem with LSD or mushrooms being legal since they can't be addictive. And don't debate me on this because it just makes you look stupid. Please go do some research on hallucinogens first. But following that same logic, I would be open to banning cigarettes since they are even more addictive than Heroin or Cocaine. Then again it's not like banning cigarettes would stop use, in fact it would increase it. Do some research into prohibition also if you have time.